They keep saying that they need around 60 Euros for a single dog every month, but we all know most of that money goes in their own pockets. They wannna do it humanely, even through 10 years ago when they said they will kill them humanely most of them were killed with shovels in the head...
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Wouldn't it be easier and more humane if they did a catch and sterilize program? I think that's what they do here, but I might be mistaken.
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thing is those never ever work.
look it up and find me one successful example
for example the one they're trying near my cousin. been putting out food with chemical sterilization for the stray cats. all it did was increase population density since sterilized cats stop being territorial and also don't trip territorial reactions in non sterile cats. The food means more can live there and it doesn't impact reproduction much since the cats can smell the difference and don't waste their time with ones that've been chemically neutered. And now the city can't stop putting out the food because they're worried about them being dependent.
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Only study I could find on the first page of google. They conclude that it's effective reducing cat population.
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how is feeding what at this point are basically just wolves indefinitely, cheaper than putting them down humanely? maybe in the extremely short term...
not like many would adopt a dog in that condition so its just a long dragged out death sentence in a shelter's tiny cage anyway
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tell that to the kid. once they go that feral they aint dogs anymore (and I really really doubt they'd ever be coming back from that change)
also clicky
edit-
err...that didn't work? well here: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/the-city-that-went-to-the-dogs-with-60000-on-the-streets-there-is-one-stray-for-every-31-people-in-bucharest-8800794.html
"More than 6,000 people were bitten – 1,000 of them children – in the first four months of 2013 in Bucharest, a city known by the nickname “little Paris” for its architectural beauty. With a human population of 1,883,425, there is approximately one stray dog to every 31 people in the city."
thats alot of bites for a docile animal population
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Adding to that, a feral dog is totally different from a wolf, being a very dangerous beast.
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and wolves are friendly loving creatures you can just walk up to and pet
but yeah packs of ferals are worse than wolves. Mostly because they don't know enough to keep away from humans.
with the fear of humans bread out of them they hang around cities.
missing a good chunk of their hunting instincts they go for the easiest prey they can find(soft targets like pets and humans, not something that can fight like deer). starving and desperate and more social than wolves they form huge packs and behave unpredictably, robbing dumpsters, begging off people one day and attacking the next. And they carry disease. Like with rats and cows close association with humans for so long means several of their diseases have adapted to jump to humans too.
mostly they take livestock and pets, but some aren't afraid to go after humans if they can get them alone or weak looking.
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I have a half-dog half-wolf dog, and he is afraid of humans (mostly kids) because he was beaten when he was a few months all from some stupid kids in the neighborhood. So I took him and raised him and he is the most good and sweet dog/wolf you can see, but he has attacked humans a lot, and I assist on that and reward him because ALL the time he is attacking, the humans are just pet him with no reason and they do it out of nnowhere, not to mention that the rest are afraid so much like they are seeing a bear or something. Do you know that animals are beings like humans? What would YOU do if someone came to you out of nowhere just to play with your hear? Yes, animals love to be petted, but NOT all of them want it from strangers. First, teach your child to not bothers animals and be careful WITHOUT being afraided of the animal, and then blame the animal IF he did something bad. Actually, he did nothing bad. Do you know the number of the chicken dying every day in meat production facilities just to please humans' stomachs? Do you know what they suffer? Yeah, but I guess you are reason this by saying "it's all natural, it's all of survival", well, sir, that dog did the SAME FUCKIN' THING. He wanted to survive. So? Where is your reason now? Guess where...
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I'm going to give you something to think about. Dogs are not people. Wild animals are dangerous.
There's nothing wrong of having chicken diying so that I can eat. It's called food chain. Also as I've said somewhere else, each species tends to work towards its own survival, putting ahead some other's before yours is rather stupid, if I'm the one to be asked.
Also dogs are not good, or bad. Dogs are amoral animals, you cannot judge their actions from a human ethics standpoint.
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I wonder if they have thought of the economic feasibility of such a plan either.
Edit: ^ Beat me to it, lol.
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How is the death of a child a "tragedy" (With the inverted commas, yeah) And how is more "tragedy" killing animals that people's deaths.
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Being it a scarce occurrence does not afffect in any way to its consideration as a tragedy. For example we could also say that Fukushima wasn't a tragedy since nuclear disasters of that caliber didn't appear that often. Or 9/11. I mean, how many hijacked plane crashes have you seen lately?
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Mass murdering? They are not people, you are not facing a new holocaust. Also what do you need to see the body for?
Also I like how you haven't really adressed my questions.
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I think you need a dictionary. Murder is the killing of ANOTHER HUMAN. Only that construes as such. Killing dogs is, by definition, not murder.
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It's not murder. Also dogs are not people either.
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What does have to do with my point? Are you going to keep deviating the thread? What's with the ad hominems?
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Strange? Anything that doesn't suit your view of the world is strange? Strange to me is pretending that dogs are human and giving more concern to the death of an animal than that of a child. That's strange to me. If you don't want to reply go ahead, feel free.
Also I have not even adressed if killing them or not doing so is bad or immoral, I like how you jumped into unbased conclusions.
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we care more about dogs because at least they can't become as ignorant as you are (something that a child could be)
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ignorance because you're ok with killing dogs who are innocent and create no problems and i quote "They are not people."
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I never said I was ok with killing them. And dogs are not people. Dogs are dogs, people are people. What you are saying is that peaches are oranges or that planes are pools. It's nosensical.
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Dogs have no morals or reason and therefore cannot be considered either Innocent or Guilty. Also, they "create no problems"... THEY KILLED A CHILD IF YOU HADN'T NOTICED!
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you are ok with killing dogs because you said "They are not people." it's ok they are not people they are something called animals and theu have a life we cannot chose their fate just because we are sentients
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What? Would you please stop making things up. Where did I say that killing them was ok?
They are animals. Sure. Not people.
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are you trying to go back? saying "They are not people." it's a clear state that you're ok with the death of some thousands of dogs
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You keep saying that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
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i'm tired of you i'm gonna stop commenting say whatever you want you'll always look that way to me
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You are a psycopath, congratulations. Also I thought you weren't going to answer anymore
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Strange? I agree completely with him, let them get killed, they're animals, not humans. If they have no owner or shelter they have no reason to live as a threat to humanity.
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That's the problem with humanity, they take animals out of their natural environment to use them either as tools or a "decoration" in their homes. Too many people don't look at the long term commitment they're going to be taking on(This is of course mainly the "I like fluffy puppies" crowd), and when the dogs have left the "cute" stage and they become bigger and they realise all of a sudden that they don't have the time for it(or it's too big for the home) they decide it's an inconvenience so they just decide to get rid of the poor animal by releasing it. Ignorant people like this are the ones that should be shot, not the dogs; the dogs are just doing what their (limited instinct) tells them to do in an attempt to survive after being brought into this world just so that somebody can have something to play with for a few months.
Don't get me wrong, it's bad that a child has died, but I don't value the child any more than I'd value the dogs(seeing as it's humanity's fault in the first place they're there). A threat to humanity or not, they should be left. Perhaps it'll remind some of the ignorant scum in this world what happens when you abuse what could be a very good friendship between an animal and a human.
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EXACTLY... Humans are not animals... They have no right on this planet anymore, they just conquered it... Murdering is the fact of KILLING without the approve of the VICTIM. An animal CAN be murdered and THOUSANDS of chicken are getting murdered on meat facilities just because humans are not even developed enough. Sorry to say that, but I prefer a Hitler to kill humans, than humans to kill animals, just because they have no right in doing so. An animal is more important than a thousand of humans, and that's no an opinion, it's a fact... No animals= No developement. Learn how life works, not what others tell you. It's like when politicians say they will do great stuff... Do you believe them? Well, I've got you some news too. Dictionaries are written by companies which are owned by men who are placed in their position by around to 8 men who own all the companies of the world, and they abuse the little ones, through politicians.
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Wait? Murdering is the following Murder is the unlawful killing, with malice aforethought, of another human, and generally this premeditated state of mind distinguishes murder from other forms of unlawful homicide (such as manslaughter). and nothing else, your sensationalism is not going to change that.
What the hell are you even talking about. And seriously, if you prefer that humans are being murdered than some animals to die you are a psycopath.
Also your wicked opinions are not facts. I do know how life works and I don't even understand your mindless rant.
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Try like 16000 bited human beings only last year, witch is on the rise. Common, don't come here and lie by not telling all the facts. And feeding them so we will not be attacked by them is not an option. If you love them, take them home. Don't ask the rest of the population to suport your "passions", please!
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damnit. accidental delete.
went to click edit to fix a typo from my phone. stupid touch screen hit delte.
riposting now....
me:
"umm...because SHE didn't EAT him? she has no relevance to it lol"
____you:
"so you're saying its normal in your country to leave a 4 yearold alone in the park?"
_____me:
"so you're saying yours is such a total shithole people need to travel in armed groups with posted lookouts for fear of being eaten in their own cities by wild animals? to the point its shrugged off as your own fault if you don't because 'hey predation happens' rofl"
and then some other guy who's name I didn't catch replied to your post with "two wrongs don't make a right"
and a third guy replied to him with a ton of smileyfaces.
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It was me. The one that said the two wrong things. And I don't exactly get why there are two people repliying to me with a ton of smileys.
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:^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^):^)
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How is the death of a child, but not getting rid of 65.000 lives, a tragedy? Not like we are going extinct, if they are going to kill 65.000 dogs because they have become a risk for society, why not getting rid of all the criminals as well?
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First of all animals are not people. Second wild animals are a vector for the transmission of diseases. Third the main leitmotiv of any species is the perpetuation of it so it's common that you feel more empathy towards you own species than to any other else.
Moreover dogs are amoral animals, we aren´t.
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As much as I love dogs and cats . . . . . there are too many stray dogs and cats in the world and they are ruining it for all the wild animals they find.
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Again? I'm italian, in our country there were dogs around, like now in your country. Every city had them. A day, mysteriously , all the dogs vanished. I hate these things. Like if someone can just decide or not if someone can live or not. Totally ignorant...
Killing the dogs is always cheaper than settle the deal, it's the shorter way in fact. But it's just hypocritical.
hypocritical because they won't never solve the REAL problems like crimes, abuses ecc.
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I don't really think you understand that REAL problems like you say cannot be solved out of the blue. Also I might have to remind you that dogs are not people.
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us, italians, live in a country where fox hunting is still legal
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?
Is that your whole argument? Tell me how would you adress the REAL problems, go ahead.
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the thing he's trying to say is that they are more concentrated on killing dogs than doing things for the people
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You must be a REAL ignorant person. 1. you think that i don't understand, ho ho ho...
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They are not people. Anyone that thinks otherwise is straigh up moronic.
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You're so cool and not- mainstream, please teach me~
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I don't know what kind of learning impairment you might suffer from but your disability to hold an argument is impressive.
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Stop acting cool, some girls could react in a strange way.
Ps. being so rude is the best way to being in the wrong :--P
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I know how you never adressed any topic I proposed but try to deviate atention. If you said you were 12 I'd completely believe it.
Also attitude has nothing to do with the correction of one's standpoint.
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oh yeah they're not people so let's kill them right? but who cares about wars where alot of people die? we surely don't
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What exactly has that to do with my point? Where have I said that killing them is right? What's with the war thing? Seriously.
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the thing that surprised me was that you're ok with killing dogs that have no involvement with that single dog who killed a child but you're also ok with wars where people kill alot of other people
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What has ignorance and or superficiality to do with your impairment of expressing yourself in a way that can be understood.
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you don't know how to relate to people or animals, please if you have to be the hipster in this thread just stop commenting and go away
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I have the very same right as anyone else of stating my opinion. If you don't like it you are going to have to deal with it. I'm not the hipster and I do know how to relate to people and animals. I'm not stupid though, as many of you seem to be.
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so the most of us are stupid and you're the smart one huh? there's a difference between right to say you're opinion and right to be a douchebag try to learn it, i'm gonna stop replying cause i'm tired of you're bullshit, you're just ruinign my day
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No, the ones that give more importance to animals than people and those who are not able to express their thoughts in an understandable manner can be safely called as stupid.
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"you don't know how to relate to people or animals"
The question is, are you a parent or responsible for a little kid in any other way? Can you relate to the fear of one then? You like dogs, you know how to behave next to them. A child cannot. If you have to fear about your child everytime you see a dog, there's a real problem. And you have to do something about it!
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Well you guys should work on your sense of humor.. dogs simply face a different reality over there. The idea was to make you realize if it shocks you that they want to kill them dogs (I never said I agree with that solution), think about the fact that in some places they simply eat them. They even go and poison the neighborhood dogs to go around and grab them afterwards for a family barbecue.
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Humor? Who needs sense of humor when Earth is being destroyed? Oh yes, you. The one who thinks out world is at peace! :) Go kill some politicians, not some poor animals who are getting abused by humans every day (true fact).
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I'm really amused at the ease you seem to have to create "true facts" in a moment.
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Wow... just wow.. your life must be pretty gloomy with all the shit happening in the world. I'm really sorry for pushing a joke in that oh so serious life of yours. I'm even surprised you can actually type a smiley after that kinda statement. :O We should all realize how meaningless and stupid humans really are and jump of a cliff like lemmings.
So I'm 'the one who thinks our world is at peace'.. didn't know I inferred anything about that. Good to know..
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Mmh how was it racist in any way? Please enlighten me..
It's based on facts I've witnessed after living over there for about 5 years.. did I pass a judgment over what they do ? Nope, I said they do it..
So if I say Japanese hunt whales to eat them even though international law says not to I'm being racist ? If I say russians drink a lot of Vodka I'm being racist ? Some Cambodians eat field rats and mountain spiders.. am I being racist again ?
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Well, I'd feel a lot more safe without 65.000 stray dogs to be honest.
I don't think we even have them here... I've never seen one at least.
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That's a risk I'm not willing to take with a big, wild-ish animal. Apart from the obvious crap like littering and diseases.
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I don't believe you but that's irrelevant.
Then again, there must be something wrong with Romania if you've got 65.000 stray dogs in the capital.
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As a person who has studied parasitology many of them have. Not to mention rabies.
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One case doesn't make up for a majority. Wild animals are a vector for diseases and you being here is not changing that.
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and something like a third of the human population doesn't have hundreds of nodules scarred into our brains(which may slightly dull reflexes and add a 2% risk of braincancer) from parasites caught from the fecal mater of stray and indoor/outdoor cats either
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Other than the ones foaming at the mouth who... well, they don't bark, they usually just snarl and growl before sinking their teeth into your arm.
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Actually i have a problem with you not taking them all to your home home!
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My only concern would be regarding the method, it should be painless and shouldn't affect anything but the stray dogs (I don't remember where it was, but in some city they decided it'd be a good idea to just leave poisoned bait lying around). I wouldn't be surprised if a significant percentage of the fogs are in a very bad shape and should be put down anyway.
Now, I wouldn't mind if they took the dogs to some shelter, but I doubt you'll find room for 65k dogs (much less people to pay for the needs of the dogs). It'd also be good if they initiate some campaign to educate people and maybe introduce fines or (more feasibly) introduce incentives for neutering. You know, so we don't have to go around mass killing dogs every X numbers of years. So yeah, I'll repeat: I have no problem with killing stray dogs. Stray dogs, once they reach a certain number, become a problem, they go feral and attack people, they shit all over, they become vectors of disease...
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Well, you know what they are saying... The ones who kill animals, end up killing humans, and it's true. It happened a lot in the past. A few people who were assisting on the deaths of the stray dogs (even in humane way) ended up becoming murderers.
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Sure. I'm 100% sure than Hitler killed stray dogs. And the muslim terrorist too. For real.
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Indeed, there are too many stray dogs runnning around freely. It's sad that a child had to be killed for them to do something. It's even worse they have to spend like 1-2 million euros so the people can vote if they should be killed or not. Everyone is feeding and protecting them but no one would take a dog home.
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To be honest, I just want them gone. It's just wrong that you have to go on the other side of the road when you see 20 dogs coming towards you or have to avoid dark streets at night. I know they are just protecting their territory but why do I have to get hurt because of that?
P.S. : What about the cows and pigs? No one cares about them?
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A little tip for those who think that "killing dogs" is not that big deal...
Focusing on compare a problem with other problems and thinking which one is worst than others, won't lead to solve a single problem at all.
That's all folks
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I think what he's saying, and what I agree with, is: If you want to solve a problem, the first step is not to bring up other problems that may or may not be bigger.
Some people like to sit around, and just compare problems all day. How about someone actually try solving a problem, by examining it on it's own merits. Seeing what is economically and morally feasible. Not "Uh, people are dying in Darfur!"(random example) because that does not solve THIS problem. Also, Darfur is probably outside of the purview of the Romanian Government.
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Humans think all life belongs to them, as usual. Assholes
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a kid gets eaten alive(trust me canines don't really bother to kill their food, just shake it until they hold still enough and tear chunks off to swallow. their prey usually dies of shock from being eaten...and thats with actual wolves. most dogs don't even know how to properly kill something if they tried)and YOU PUT TRAGEDY IN QUOTES and claim the kid never existed because you're upset about the dogs
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"the whole dog population" LOL!!!!
People still have them as pets don't they? If I read all this stuff correctly they're only concerned about getting rid of possibly vicious strays.
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Just some nonsense mystical language....
Am fost azi pe la Romana si am vazut ca era un protest.Se cerea demisia primarului din aceasta cauza?Nu prea sunt la curent cu stirile....
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Chiestia e ca cereau demisia cuiva(presupun ca a primarului).Am trecut in graba, deci nu prea stiu ce se intampla.
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Retarzii aia erau parintii copilului. SUnte,m peste doua milioane de oameni in Bucuresti si trebuie sa suportam mofturile asazisilor iubitori de animale. Nu vreti ca cainii aia sa pateasca ceva, luatii acasa. Nu trebuie sa ne luptam cu ei pentru "dragostea" voastra fata de animale!
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if a dog killed a child i'm ok with detaining that single one but killing all the others has no sense whatsoever
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Although the dog killed that unlucky kid, it's an animal, what do you expect ? Dogs in this case, are like bullets, and the gun is held in human hands.
Nonetheless, people getting killed by stray dogs is pathetic. No other way to put it. In no way, shape or form is it acceptable for people to die gnawed by stray dogs in a major city, even it's a third world country.
This being said, mass euthanasia is a weak solution for a stupid problem that should've not existed in the first place. The only reasonable solution would be a city wide system of dog pounds. Let the dog freaks adopt as many dogs as they want, while keeping the streets safe.
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question! What should we do? Take money from the budget to take care of 60000 dogs or put them in to hospitals were we have lack of funds? Yep, dogs! A lot of the fundations promised ten years ago that they will solve the problem through sterilization. Guess what? The number of stray dogs is on the rise as the number of atacs on humans. 16000 atacks only last year. We don't have a problem with puppies but with masses of stray dogs.
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another question....don't pounds kill dogs?...alot? why take the crueler more expensive roundabout way just to feel better of "at least we tried"
nobody is taking dogs like these, and if they tried the city couldn't release a dangerous animal to them if they wanted to. they just get stuffed into tiny cages for half a decade and before going to the backroom and then the dumpster.
killing them is better. less painful for the dogs, cheaper for the budget, and more honest then sending them to a kennel everybody involved knows they're never leaving.
and its safer for the town than doing nothing. besides even with the pound idea many would be killed right off the bat because they're in that bad a condition when they find em.
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This being said, mass euthanasia is a weak solution for a stupid problem that should've not existed in the first place. The only reasonable solution would be a city wide system of dog pounds. Let the dog freaks adopt as many dogs as they want, while keeping the streets safe.
Thats not a solution at all. Even the "dog freaks" wont adopt a pack of feral dogs. Its best, not only in terms of cost but in time, to just shoot feral animals. Yes, its "inhuman" but blame the lazy fucks that abandoned the animals after not caring enough to neuter/spay the animal.
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it does'n't matter anymore why they reached high numbers, the problem is the adoption rate is like 2%. The problem exists and the dogs should not be on the streets. And money is a BIG problem.
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Near the place I live there used to be a lot of stray dogs. They killed some family dogs and attacked people. Rarely there were news of deaths by them. This was around 10 years ago. Now you rarely see any strays. We had a huge program to catch all of them. Those that didn't find a home were put down with an injection. Now most of the shelters are pretty much held open by public help programs.
What I remember is that if those dogs have large packs then they won't be afraid of anyone. Having killed once, they will again. There aren't any strays here anymore, but I honestly can't imagine letting my child out knowing there would be. Dogs can be pretty unpredictable, specially in packs.
Here it was the public outcry that changed things, maybe it will be the same in your country as well? I don't think that having stray animals is in anyway a good thing, but there certainly are better ways to deal with this situation. Yet a corrupt government alone won't deliberate on those.
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The problem is at least 23 years old. Doubt it will change this time.
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Stray dogs, if allowed to form packs, are a real threat to livestock, wild animals and even humans. There are safety and public health considerations to be kept in mind, and also environmental ones: both cats and dogs will hunt, thus damaging wild animal populations that IMO rank higher as something worth preserving.
In the long term, it's a good idea to try and make prospective and actual owners behave more responsibly; and as an animal lover, I find mind-boggling that people need to be taught to be respectful of their pets and animals, and not just treat them as disposables.
Short term, leaving strays around to do whatever they please is not what I would think of as a smart move. How the problem is better handled is an entirely different matter, and surely one that can be up for discussion.
There's no arguing, however, that strays are a problem to be solved, rather than something good that should be kept around.
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I think most people here never actually faced a pack of stray dogs. They're just so "friendly".
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Idk bro a pack of stray dogs sounds fucking terrifying
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Because a 4 years old was killed by dogs while his grandma was at the shop. Yep, a 4 years old was alone in a park. Nobody says how he could've been kidnapped/raped/ran over by a car, etc, they just wanna kill the stray dogs. They say they don't have money to make shelters and killing them all is cheaper. I personally find this very stupid. There are stray dogs here since 40 years ago and nobody said anything until now, this "tragedy" allows people get a reason to bitch about it. Nobody says anything about the guy around the block that looks strange at you, they are scared of stray dogs. I wanna hear some outside opinions about this, so please, post. I live in Romania btw if anybody's curious.
There are around 65.000 stray dogs only in the capital, and most of them come from abandon. The abandon rate here is huge, so they would raise that number again in a few years.
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