Hey dear SG community. I'd like to hear your opinions on how to give to those users who also give, not only leech.

So far I've seen many different approaches to achieve that, but I can't say that I've got my favorite so far. Each method has its obvious upsides and downsides to it. Level restriction, is most obvious, but also least effective one. Sgtools are great, but they need to be posted separately. I think group giveaways might be the best approach, but it requires some extra effort to find, join and keep up with the rules of each.

What are you opinions on this subject? ๐Ÿค”

Bonus question, is it ok to request new winner based on winner ratio? (I didn't even use that option yet).

2 years ago

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To make sure my giveaways are not won by leeches (ratio far less then 1.0) I tend to use:

View Results
level
sgtools
groups
whitelist
request new winner
I don't care about that

Mostly whitelist, curated by only adding people with a good ratio, then sometimes level (3 is the right one, in my opinion), but on the latest community train I don't think I set any level, cause the event works better as a true free-for-all (leeches included) fest!

2 years ago
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Thanks for your opinon. I'm adding you to my whitelist :)

2 years ago
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I used to make level 5 or higher GA's , but now as you i am building my whitelist with nice people to share my keys there.

2 years ago
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Whitelisting people is the better way to make sure that your games are in the correct hands - you decide who is on your list and there is nothing easier than that. At least thats my opinion :)

2 years ago
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^ this is even better and easier than my steam group suggestion

+1

2 years ago
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Yes, I was leaning towards that option too. The downside of this approach imo is the exclusiveness of that approach. It gives a chance just to a little group of users. Adding you to my whitelist too :) I guess I'll use this thread as whitelist recruitment xD

2 years ago
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Thank you! ;)

2 years ago
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i personally think it's uncool to request a new winner due to bad ratio. Doing a leveled giveaway is the most obvious choice but if you want people who mantain a good ratio, creating a steam group with such requirements is the next best choice.

I got nothing against leeches, I used to be one, but I try to give back as much as I can.

But bots and autojoiners, that's a different story, that's why my minimum level is 2-3. Worse than leechers

2 years ago
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I think I get you well, my ratio isn't very incredible either. I don't mind ratio below 1 in general, but I've seen some user with such crazy leechy ratios that it got me annoyed ;) Whitelist to you sir ;)

2 years ago
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thanks man, bluehearted you back!
anyways, yeah I used to be all about ratios, blacklisting leeches, setting high-level giveaways, but in the end, it's a giveaway site and giving back to the community that has basically built my steam library is all I care for.

2 years ago
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haha, maybe you're right... simplicity is the key. :)

2 years ago
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"i personally think it's uncool to request a new winner due to bad ratio"
plus its not valid reason and admins would not approve reroll

2 years ago
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Can't say I'm surprised. It's not against the rules after all. I though this option would add a little spice to the discussion xD

2 years ago
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Whitelist or your separate group on Steam - and you only gift games to your friends or favorites you are confident in.
The rest is easy to get around

2 years ago
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Sgtools works nice, sadly link can leak for good games as you can't really find who did it. But chance is low, I use sgtools often and only once I had two invalid entries when it was unbundled game. You may try SG pillars group which is made to put together people with good ratio, but even there are leechers, which just know how to magicaly increase CV with low effort.

2 years ago
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Whitelist is probably the only option. Cause some people bust their stats with unbundled asset flips with high price in steam:(

2 years ago
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I think its either Sgtools or WL.

2 years ago
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Whitelist may be the easier choice on a personal level- that or actually higher lvl requirements (not just 2 or 3).

But the lvl thing kinda bugs me, because i noticed higher level users are generally people with larger libraries- and i personally prefer to give more chances to those with less. But then theres the leakers and bots on the lower level.

Theres nothing stopping anyone from having large whitelists. Adding is pretty easy. The only downsides is having to personally add each and everyone, and if you really care about their standing upkeeping ends up becoming increasingly harder.

Id say whitelists but, end of the day, groups who are already stabilished and stable outwins the trouble of laborious whitelisting and later checking whos in the list.
Theres lots of groups where theres already a bunch of people helping mantain.

Someone mentioned SG Pillars and by your post it was the first that came to my mind- but then sg pillars get into the 'generally users who already have lots of games' category.

My personal pick has been Playing Appreciated for quite a few years now. The downside is theres nothing on PA about user ratios, but i could be mistaken- but it cares more about wether or not people play their wins and are entering for things they want rather then just hoarding, wich i personally care more about then whatever cv or real cv ratio wouldve been (and includes nonbot newcomers who very often cant or wouldnt have a higher level or good standing yet)

Also theres nothing foolproof. End of the day is just wich option is less prone to unwanted entries. Id say you could guess or expect at least a 1-2 entries who arent as good standing as youd wish no matter the method. All of them are valid frankly (minus re-rolling, that only would work with very obvious leechers/bots)

2 years ago
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Yes, this is definitely an important aspect also. I really like the idea of Playing appreciated. It's a good addition to more open giveaways, but personally I I don't play as much as I would want to, so I want to get some games for later too (with a real intent of playing I shall add).
For example recently I've been checking out the trial of game pass, hence it would be pretty inconvenient for me to play my SG wins right away.

All in all PA is a great initiative & also managed in a really impressive way.

Regarding the users with big libraries, this is yet another aspect which I din't think of when I wrote the post. The more I know the more confused I'm, I guess :D

2 years ago
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Thats normal. Me too btw, heck i just bought a dozen or more games in the past sales straight from steam i dont intent to play right away and would pass the mark of PAs '1 month'. And those were games i bought directly because i intend on playing then first, its just time wont allow me to play all of then in a short time. The whole will play not yet gets even worse with bundled games, humble choice and so on. My backlog is full of things i do want to play

I see PA more as the only way i know of, in SG, of making it more likely that someone who got in a GA did it so because they want and will play the game rather then just for a +1 in library or to idle cards. I wish i could filter cases like that without the 1 month limit, since theres only PA doing something like that thats what im left with.

Still i only do some giveaways in PA. I try to distribute then between groups and public GAs. Generally i reserve to PA some of my favorite titles (particularly if theyre more niche), as i would be sad if something i consider a gem ended up as just someones untouched +1 instead of someone who would really apreciate it. Most cases dont fit this criteria and i dont do then via PA.

...and at the end of the day not even that is sure. From bad actors like Masafor mentioned to people who didnt actually enjoyed or wanted but played anyway because of PA rules. Truth is we cant know.

My advice would be to not worry too much. Somethings are beyond our control. We cant know who people really are across the internet easily, heck even irl its hard and tricky. Nothing beats knowing someone, their tastes, seeing they have a title on their wishlist and gifting directly.

My peace of mind is knowing that as much as theres a chance of bad actors or leechers getting a win from me theres a equal or higher chance someone who really wanted, contributes and or couldnt afford something getting it. I may not know how many and who but im certain some winners get very happy and deserved it.

So all i care is that 'equal or higher chance' of someone deserving getting it, since we cant eliminate the risk completely. For that purpose all the choices you listed are good enough i think. Idk if it could be better.

2 years ago
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I support a lot that you wrote but they have in the PA group, only as one extreme example, a member that used on discord 8 accounts+ to win GA's, sell them, lie, cheat, faked (bad) screenshots, mobbing people, raid servers with his gang and so on. He got banned on around 30 servers and a Ga bot that are active on 1k+ servers. [So a really top notch creme de la creme ยง$ยง%ยง]
I know that so exactly because i reported him on discord, to dif. groups and to PA.
PA was one of the only 3 groups that don't kicked him and weren't interested to see evidences (not only words that can be true or not) because "not from interest, he don't done bad stuff on sg" (from my point of view: "were not catched doing bad stuff on sg").

And he isn't the only bad apple there.

2 years ago
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Wow, that is one interesting individual & in a bad way of course. I'm amazed by how far some people will go just to get those keys.

2 years ago
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He gone much farer as you think because he got that accounts, step by step, on different servers. He planned the exploits partly up to ONE YEAR before he fully used the other accounts -most likely not to get catched easily-. So not the normal "cheating behavior" and not the behavor of a 14/15 yo guy (he said mostly that this is his age -others were 18, 20 and 33-)

I only digged his bad stuff out after he thought it's a good idea to provoke me 1 year+ with his "gang" and thought that my "i don't want to have stress", my avoiding stressful situations and my words about "let's drop it before it gets unfriendly", is a sign of weakness.
He learned very fast that my balls are bigger as from his complete gang together if needed (i am a very unforgiving guy if someone work so hard to go that route...). But normaly i prefer not to show that and be a friendly, mostly direct (that is seen, partly, as a bad thing on sg :-D), guy ;o)

2 years ago
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Wth?!

I had no idea! So we cant have nice things no matter where it seems...

Im disapointed on their stance but then idk the details nor what they had to deal with in the past. I know harassment and false accusations also happen and ive seen mods in the past (on foruns, not on sg or steam groups) playing it safe by taking a stance of 'cant see/didnt happen here, no action'. Wich i can understand but then i wonder how often false accusations happen versus the negatives of letting a bad apple remain.

But all things considered i already expect some of that, in all groups and solutions actually. Not mods ignoring evidence, i mean chances are theres more then a couple of bad actors in any/all groups that no one noticed yet. From hiding it well or multiple accounts stuff like that, the amount of exploiters and bad actors we notice anywhere on the internet are always a smaller percentage of the total number of bad actors.

I got way angrier about those things in the past, perhaps is age already showing but now im more in a 'life is unfair and i cant get mad at all of it' stance so to speak.

Ive seen some more oddities regarding PA, like users who didnt play that werent banned already/quicker- but because of my handsoff aproach and not being too involved i only care about the GAs i make there. I check the winners of my PA giveaways and so far no bad actors, except one who didnt play one of my first PA gas (and was later banned for doing so, years ago).

2 years ago
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I hadn't said something if they had only my word (words can be easy manipulated) but the one i spoke with -i don't say names on sg but i am no friend of beer and it don't changed from that experience- don't cared to see, very much available, evidences (up to IP logs).

It was a wrong handling from my point of view and i heard more of the stories about not banned people, a part of my members left PA and brought stories to our discord and i seen screenshots, so not all can be only "stories", the same direction that you wrote too.

To be fair, not all can go perfect in a group and none can solve all in the same, good quality, but between perfect and my experience lay a big part that could be handled, much, better^^.

And of course i checked after that thing a few things of PA closer and i found more.
I brought that to the same persons attention and got the same "fuck you noname" behavior, not in words but as reactions. Maybe because it don't fitted in that ones own viewpoint of her "perfect" group.

Don't get me wrong, i don't think all is bad there but since that day i always recommend only Playing Matters is someone want a group with people that play all their wins because i know they really check their members and would hear if someone comes around with bad infos about someone.

We have a "play your wins" section too in our group but the ammount of Ga's made for that is maybe 1% of all our Ga's and to be honest i am not sad about it because it make a lot of work to check all manual (we don't use bots/scripts as PA do it as example, so all real work from a few people).

2 years ago
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it seems that you are pretty lucky on your PA winners. out of my 4 PA giveaways, 1 was kicked because they don't play their wins (it seems that they play the game sometime after that though), 2 only touch it for the minimum requirement and doesn't bother to finish the game (and i saw one of them doing this for almost all of their PA wins). although the last one has a good playtime (similar to my playtime for beating the game), i can't really check the validity since the game doesn't have ending achievements. that guy was eventually kicked because he screwed up (won a lot of giveaways and couldn't manage to finish them all)

the group is still nice if you want to get your games played, but i don't feel giving away games like i was because of it.

2 years ago
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And just like that the ilusion is broken. I was happily delusioned!

I tought about that in the begning. By the rules i imagined a bunch of people would be entering before proving they werent fit (not following through) eroding the whole proposal- but because ive been lucky i tought it somehow worked better then i feared... turns out i might have been right from the start and that may be the case for all those users, where at any given moment theres a good portion of leechers hovering around to win as much as they can before the kick

I remenber when there was no bots(we were aware of) on sg. Then came sgtools and then people leaking. And just the other day i found out people were using scripts to cheat on jigidi too. Jesus we cant have anything nice can we?

2 years ago
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ikr? people are just too greedy sometimes.

2 years ago
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I too found PA to be the best place to give games on SG, until they kicked me out for not getting enough achievements. I still think it's the best place to give, but wish their mods were better.

2 years ago
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Level, usually. It's the easiest and most effective.

2 years ago
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WL GA's would be the best way in my opinion, as the others (as you said) come with some drawbacks.

I use the levels not for ratios checks at all, but just because making GA's in level 2 and above severely minimizes the amounts of re-rolls due game already owned and phony the key didn't work requests.

Just be aware, if you only do whitelist GA's or group GA's then you sort of become part of the problem you are trying to combat by doing it. Elitist WL/Groups tend to kill the influx of new good people as they are more and more excluded, and therefore not incentivized to stay on the site or perhaps even pushed into the behavior we would rather not see here. There's quite a lot of people here, good people who think certain groups or White Lists are just as bad as leeching, as those take away from the fun for us all the same way in the end. And they will target those GA creators just as you are trying to target leeches.

Ii's not always easy to cover ones bases, to navigate the SG sea safely, but as long as you do anything in moderation, I think you'll be good. Have fun, and good luck.

2 years ago*
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Thank you. This is an interesting addition to the discussion. Elitism is basically the offshoot of all those methods. I would prefer to give an equal chance to all users, with decent ratio, but this is currently not possible. It would require to implement some mechanics known from sgtools to SG itself. On the other hand it would add another level of complexity to it, which is not necessarily good.

2 years ago
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2 years ago*
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Thanks a lot. I need to get more into sgtools too. Test things out :)

2 years ago
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2 years ago
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whitelist

2 years ago
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Calling someone with ratio below 1.0 a leech is stupid. If you really want 1.0 ratio - you are on a wrong site, the one you need it steamtrades.com
You see, to achieve ratio above 1.0 you need someone to go below 1.0. So, without people who have ratio below 1.0 we inevitable become steamtrades, because nobody will be able to go above 1.0. There is no other options.
I don't care about user ration. I don't even care if people play the game they won from me (but that is, unlike ratio, is sane and understandable requirement). All I want it for winner to be happy about what they won, even if that's just for the sake of hoarding. I use level-restricted or sgtools-restricted giveaway not to request some giving per se, but just to make sure that winner at least know how the site works, and will activate game and mark it as received. I hate doing rerolls, and I hate when people trade/regift their wins. If there was some way to filter only "good" users from lvl0, I would gladly give a bit more to them. But bots, multiaccounts and just idiots unable to read rules are way to common to make public giveaways without restrictions, alas.

2 years ago
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I'm not gonna argue with that, even tho you seem to expect that of me. I agree it's simply impossible for everyone to have ratio above 1. I'm not calling anyone who has a ratio below 1 a leech, but there are some obvious cases that can be called that way. After all ratio is just one of the aspects. Some other were mentioned here in comments.

2 years ago
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Why would you think I expect arguing? You asked for an opinion, I stated mine, that's all. You can agree or disagree, that's up to you. Also, of course I agree that there are some cases when user can be called a leech, it's just that it has little to do with ratio IMHO. And also, I usually don't care if somebody is a leech or not, I'm more concerned if someone is playing fair or not. If somebody sits here all day entering giveaways manually - that's fine in my book.

2 years ago
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To answer your question. I thought that way because you phrased your statement pretty strongly, but nevermind that.
I see your point & I find it a valuable part of the discussion.

2 years ago
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For me is same I GA game I don't need

2 years ago
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Bonus question, is it ok to request new winner based on winner ratio? (I didn't even use that option yet).

Nope, that's not a valid option. Support will deny this request. If you wish to exclude entrants you'll need to use other options like sg tools, groups or whitelist.

2 years ago
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I'm not technical enough for any of that.

Join & Enter for my group! That's it, thats the rules

2 years ago
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I appreciate all the effort you put into your group. Much appreciated.

2 years ago
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All have upsides and downsides, you grabbed that correct.
It doesn't give a perfect solution. Sadly.

It's a fact that 40% of the level 0 accounts have infractions for unactivated or multiple wins (= reselling wins and such stuff) + the ammount of used autojoiners are much more as in higher levels.
You can check each account, special the winners, on infractions with https://www.sgtools.info/activation and https://www.sgtools.info/multiple-wins

https://www.steamgifts.com/stats/community/users
Scroll down to the bottom and look at the "per level" info and you see we have on sg 965k accounts that never gave one game away that weren't free and only around 165k that gave something.

Of course aren't all 165k of the lvl1+ accounts active but the 1.0 ratio that you brought up are far from the reality.
With a 1.0 ratio you have maybe maximum 2k (i assume the half) as possible recievers for GA's.
And to call all below that as leechers sounds very hard, special when you look on the 965k that never gave something on this site.

I assume you done that to provoke and to start a discussion and not because you really think each one below the 1.0 ratio is a leecher.

Besides that is it very easy to fake the ratio and the $ send with shady ru shop games that costs cents and bring really big ammounts.
The people that use that method are listed in each group that don't restrict such stuff on page 1 but in the end they give overpriced, sg cv system exploiting, crap away to win normal/good games. The same counts for the people that use 30 accounts on all freebie sites to grab as much copies as possible and to give them away on sg before the staff set them to free -a part will be set to free after X ammount of time but a other part will be never set to free because the staff don't seen that freebie and not got a ticket to add it-.
They look like heros, as long as you don't look under the surface.
I can't give you examples on sg because it would be seen as calling out but write me on steam and i give you a few names, then you can check it with your own eyes and see very easily what i mean.

My solution against all the abuse and exploit on sg was to create a safe zone were i am able to close all loopholes and have a intense check of new people before they can win something. That way are the black sheeps outside and in the group is it relaxed and stress free. I don't need to set a minimum level (we have a few ones below the min. req. too) or think twice if some $%ยง%ยง will win the GA and make the support and me afterwards extra work (that don't happen) :)
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/C3vvd/join-masafors-group-of-friends

Of course is that not a perfect solution too because it needs time to manage a group but for the normal members it's not more time investment or something else.

And yes, with each measurement or way it hits the friendly level 0 users, that exists too, but that is the price because the lower levels are INFESTED with black sheeps (and cg not really do something against it).

2 years ago*
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Thank you, this are some interesting statistics, that are based in hard facts.
My main intention was indeed to provoke a discussion for sure. To learn more on how others interpret ratio & the whole dylema. I din't mean to call anyone with ratio below 1 a leech. I just didn't want to speculate over where exactly might leeching start ;) I guess I wasn't clear enough.

I have a question regarding your group, that I believe kinda fits the whole conversation, so I hope you don't mind. Why do you require level 30 at steam? To be honest, I don't care about the level there very much. I don't care much about, card, gems, etc. Correct me if I'm wrong then, but doesn't it require to either hoard a lot of games or buy gems, farm cards, etc. to get such level?

btw. your link doesn't seem to work because of the last slash.

2 years ago
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The level on steam is a measure against bot and 2nd/3rd/4th/5th accounts. Lets call them side accounts.
80% of the bot/side accounts are below that level.

It is easy to have the demanded level without to farm cards, only alone from the free steam events (free badges and free card drops) in the past.

I accept sometimes users with lower steam level when i checked the accounts and clearly see that the steam account isn't a side account, the sg account is clean and i don't know that person in a negative way from other sites, discords etc..

As you said it about the ratio, it is all only one small part of the complete picture.
When the rest fit, is the steam level not the ultimative problem.

2 years ago
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Ok, thank you for explanation. I would like to join if my low steam level is not a problem. :) I've posted in your discussion to make things official ;)

2 years ago
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Whitelist and certain groups are my primary tool for the games I consider most worthwhile and where I really want to see someone play them and enjoy them.

For the games that I don't care about so much I'll just level restrict them so the winner will have at least given something away, even if it is less than they have received.

2 years ago
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Yes, I think it's the essence after all to apply different strategies based on the game being given away.

2 years ago
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I use mainly groups and levels. But I guess others options are good too (although I does not use sgtools even if this give more flexibility),
Whitelist options sounds good too, but I think it should not be a only option as you need to manage it actively and manually and there will be the same winners over and over again. Also if it would be a only way to make GAs this site would die very fast (but the same for groups, that is it is better to mix some options :) ).

Ps. You can not reroll because of bad ratio and I think such option should not exist - you should set rules at a start of GA not on the end of it..

2 years ago
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i've created some trains myself here(7 the last 2 years i've been more active) and i usually use sgtools to allow users with >0,4 real ratio in. it is quite a good method but not perfect, i've seen many users enter that built their cv with only overpriced games from russian stores and russian giveaways and not a single decent game from bundles in fanatical/humble, i blacklist some of them.
but i was thinking that next time instead of a forum train i'll maybe create a group for my giveaways but i'm just too lazy to write down rules, maintain the group, constantly checking users and kicking out bad apples.

2 years ago
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Thanks & good luck with the group if you decide to give it a go after all :)

2 years ago
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I don't mind "leeches" participating and winning my GAs but I don't like ppl using bots, scripts, etc. to access every possible GA, even worse when they spam their "thanks" messages upon joining this way. I'm also kinda annoyed by ppl who don't thank when they win or don't redeem their gifts for a very long time after GA has ended, even though I check their profile and see them being online frequently (probably bots...). I think it's kinda rude but I don't do anything about it, only making my GAs minimum level 2, as I believe it cuts off majority of such accounts without impeding much chances of joining for the honest users. I don't use any other methods, even my whitelist and blacklist are both perfectly empty, no private, sgtools, group GAs. Sometimes I just pump minimum levels up, like on the last SG birthday - I made special GAs for every user level with different games but they were still public and with no other limitations.

2 years ago
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Levels will filter out most of the bots but not most of the leeches (case in point).

Sgtools and WL are solid options in my opinion but I honestly think nothing beats directly gifting games to your actual friends on Steam, especially coop ones. As for bundle games, it's better to go on barter dot vg to exchange those for a wishlist one. You don't really need to limit yourself to Steamgifts is where I'm getting at.

On the other hand, if you really want to grow the community, creating engaging events is the way to go. That Halloween game one was top notch for example. Giveaways gated behind events remain inclusive enough to foster belonging without giving in to the seedier part of the community.

2 years ago
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I don't even take users < level 2+ into consideration any longer. When you think about it all members have the money for hardware and internet access but are to poor to give away a game once in a while? Come on.

That's why I joined Masafor's group. He does the membership vetting process and I can be confident my gifts aren't taken by people going against the spirit of SG.

As I don't want to wholly exclude members feeling uncomfortable joining a group I do some invite only giveaways on ongoing threads from time to time.

2 years ago
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Level, anything else is pain...

2 years ago
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Groups that fit your ethos is probably the best way to go and whitelist if you set your whitelist up in that manner.

2 years ago
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Thanks for a response. Can you check your wins btw.? ;)

2 years ago
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I don't do many public giveaways any more, since the incidence of rule breakers and people who take ages to mark as received is higher. I prefer forum giveaways and things like the community train.
Leechers don't really bother me, as long as they play their wins, which is why I like groups such as Playing Appreciated and Playing Matters and the Play a Game You Won on SteamGifts events.

2 years ago
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