Absolutely not! That's just blasphemy!
I wouldn't mind playing both Torchlight and Diablo, but always Coca-cola:)
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My guess... because the media and society teaches us that in every aspect of our lives its not enough to simply be happy with your choice, you have to shove your choice into everyones face to prove you're right.
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I think you should check Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. They are both games that will come out and they will surpass those 2 in a crazy way. I'm a Diablo fan by the way :)
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Yep. I'm playing PoE beta, and for what I saw, it will be an awesome game
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Do you have 1 more key ? :o
I'm looking forward to play PoE so much
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PoE is boring as hell. Can't comment on Grim Dawn because I haven't played it.
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Grim Dawn, maybe, PoE made me facepalm pretty hard. That game isn't going to do anything but be quickly forgotten.
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To each his own. Honestly I'm not at all excited about Diablo III, even if I loved the first and second games. I'm planning to buy Torchlight 2, tho
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Wow so many user reviews on may 15th. I bet they all have bought the game and all finished it so fast that they were able to make a legit review. I'd especially like to highlight one of them:
"The "pay-to-win" system allows people who are spoiled to be better than people who are dedicated to the game. Every character ends up the same with the fixed attribute/skill system. This makes partying with two or more of the same character redundant and makes the end-game of level 60 to be repetitive. There is no reason to grind the game (yes, we all did that for D1 and D2) and to find rare loot when someone can buy the same items easily. There also doesn't seem to be a lot of unique rare items - scrolling through the auction house."
Well this guy figured Diablo 3 out completely. On May the 15th. Man I wish I had the same knowledge as he does.
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Awesome review. The real world money auction house is not even live yet lol.
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Eh, Diablo 3 is sure to be a big hit on the strength of the names of the franchise and developer alone, but some aspects of the game (always online DRM, RMAH, fixed stat and skill progression) turn me off. I'll probably give the game a try sooner or later, but I'm not willing to spend money on it just like that.
Torchlight 2 on the other hand, I won on this site. So it's not really a fair contest for me. I'll certainly be playing it when it comes out, even if it ends up being not very good (which I doubt, but who knows?).
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"fixed stat and skill progression"
If by that you mean the abilities being a permanent choice like they were in Diablo 2 then they changed that. I really enjoy the flexibility that Diablo 3 offers in terms of the abilities. You can adjust and tweak it as much s you like.
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I think the ability to respec is a good thing indeed, though it's a bit of a mixed blessing because the way it works only adds to the dumbing-down of the whole system. But that's not what I meant. I'm talking about allocating points in your stats and skill trees.
While Diablo 2 had some serious issues that were intertwined with the stat and skill progression (like how there were a handful of builds that were clearly superior to everything else) and the inability to respec (which meant that if you wanted to improve your build you had to completely remake your character), Diablo 3 does absolutely nothing to fix that system, and in stead gets rid of it entirely. For me, one of the big draws of an action-RPG is the ability to build your character as you progress through the game, seeing it evolve over time. This is what makes the "ding" worthwhile to me. Diablo 3 effectively eliminates that choice by dictating what you can and cannot use at any time. There's just no player choice involved anymore, either because they were afraid of unbalanced builds or they were concerned that the average gamer doesn't have the mental capacity to plan ahead.
They try to alleviate this whole mess a bit by he way runes work, but that's a shallow replacement of what used to be. Diablo 3's progression system requires zero forethought or planning since you can customise your skills at any time. Since the game makes character build unimportant, it puts a far greater emphasis on equipment, valuing time spent (grinding for the right gear) over player skill (planning ahead for the best way to spend your points). Basically the only kind of real customisation of your character is through your gear. Of course, this makes the RMAH have far more of an impact on the game which was undoubtedly Blizzard's intention, but something I see as a very negative development.
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+1 on a skill tree fuck-up. Made whole game lil dull, it`s like stupidity takes over the world
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I can't decide between the two. I may end up just getting both of them.
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Ye every 13 yo kid who wasnt able to to play on release day went to that site and posted "MI MI MI" Ofc it sucked that nobody was able to play, but you giving diablo III zero points for not beeing able to play on launchday coz the servers are to busy... Just go back to CSS and leave the rest of the world alone with your stupidness really...
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Everybody knew BEFORE he bought the game that Diablo III will run on freaking Battle.net..And I REALLY love (im serious) how Blizzard is protecting their games vs pirates who just like to rip those games and play it with friends in lan mode. Not this time homos..
EDIT: Dont take me to serious, but I hate pirates who steal games..
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I'm sure D3 has already been hacked and they are playing it offline and via LAN already or will be soon. Yep, all that hard work and trouble they made for people who paid $60 really paid off. -_- Piracy will never go away, just like theft. You avoid it, you can't beat it. Stop punishing people who actually pay for your products.
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So you mean they need to "Hack" Diablo III to hack the LAN mode out of it or what :DD
When theres no lan mode integrated, theres no lan mode integrated. lulz
And btw, they wouldnt need to HACK diablo III to play it on lan, they would have to code their own lan patch to make this possible..
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Everything happens on the server, mobs, loot, player position, calculating damage. They'd have to create false local servers, like they did with WoW. For now everything being server-side makes the game lag if you are downloading something or just weak internet connection in general, even if you play alone. This is insane.
It pisses me off that legitimate customers have to endure stupid DRM resolutions. Some people pirate games just to avoid obtrusive DRM, and who loses then? People who paid money for the product.
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TL2. No forever-online DRM, LAN, no auction house, frequent rares/uniques, selectable gender for each class, colorful and splashy killing sprees, fast pacing, old-school fully customizable skill tree, amazingly useful pet.
People who go for D3 are just blinded by their love for D2. That ubisoft-like drm and LAG in SINGLE-FRIGGIN-PLAYER game? Yeah, deal breaker. And I'm not even talking about servers at launch. Even Steam has an offline mode for heaven's sake.
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People who go for D3 are just blinded by their love for D2.
So what? Ppl got what they were waiting for. And for god sake stop whine about drm and auction house. RMT needed to be legalized, just because it will happen anyway in any game with multiplayer. You just too blinded by your stupidity
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TotalBiscuit actually seemed to like Torchlight 2 a whole lot more than Diablo 3, particularly in terms of the "oomph" of combat.
I'm thinking about maybe buying the 4-pack of Torchlight 2 (for the same price as ONE copy of D3), or you could buy TL2/back Grim Dawn on Kickstarter--there's three hours left for that.
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Doubt that torchlight 2 will win in any way if it's anything like the first.
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I'm in the Torchlight 2 beta right now, and while Diablo III was a bit disappointing, TL2 is moreso. Torchlight 2 seems to have tons of minor issues:
• Pathing problems - you click and hold to move around, and sometimes you just run back and forth in place.
• Targeting enemies - sometimes it doesn't target the enemy you clicked properly.
• Ranged attack issues - click and hold to attack an enemy in front of you, and you end up attacking off to the side, i.e. \ or / instead of |.
• On occasion picking an item in your inventory up closes all the windows - especially annoying when trying to (dis)enchant or recover armor/gems.
Also, it seems there is little to no replayability. Once a boss is dead, it's dead.
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I give my vote to Torchlight 2. Mods will be awesome.
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D3 was on my must buy wishlist but now I'm not that eager to buy it I don't know why. Maybe because 60 bucks for TL2 4-pack + orignal Torchlight an offer hard to resist.
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lineage eternal http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCdbdsFgNGI&feature=player_embedded
i think diablo is better .but lineage eternal...
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Oh god! I haven't laughed that well in weeks! I salute you for digging up this gem again.
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TL2 is about killing 1-5 mobs by clicking on each one of them individually.
D3 is about killing 10-50 mobs at the same time by using insanely fun AoE abilities.
TL2 leveling consists of adding 1-3% to a stat or a skill each level (seriously, 15 ranks for each skill in a tree? what were they thinking?)
D3 leveling consists of getting new spells and fun new variants for spells each level that you can change on the fly. No more regrets about borking up a character because you invested 10 points more than needed in Int on a warrior.
TL2 loot system is "get one piece of loot dropped and stay with it for a long time by 'enhancing it'"
D3 loot system is "get a better piece of loot every few hours"
TL2 targeting sucks BALLS. They haven't fixed that since TL1 and it's super annoying. If you played ranged class in TL, you'll remember the stupid thing when you try and click a mob and your character walks instead because you missed by a millimeter. Hitboxes for mobs are very small and practically all mobs move extremely fast.
D3 targeting is great. You can play a ranged class without using a Shift button and not break your monitor in a fit of rage. The only problem is that sometimes the hitbox zone is too big and the character attacks instead of walking but you can easily adapt to it by pressing on a free spot behind the mob and holding a button if you actually want to walk over there.
TL2 is going to have cheated items, modded items (read cheated) and duping of items/characters.
D3 has in-game auction house that allows you to trade legit items.
TL2 story will be just worse than D3's and won't have 20 minutes of cutscene video.
And while I really like TB, his state that TL2's combat feels "meatier" is just plain silly. Shaking your screen with each hit does not make it a great combat and D3's combat is just more enjoyable.
I'm sorry but D3 is just a better game. The price and DRM are outside of the gameplay and the game shouldn't really be judged by those.
P.S. I have both games (bought D3, pre-purchased TL2) and going to play them both, but D3 is CLEARLY the better game in this comparison.
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The amount of misinformation and bias in your post is just astounding.
You act like your opinion is fact, simply stating D3 is a better game does not make it true. It may apply to some but not everyone. And of course price and drm can be considered criteria to judge a game by, TL2 is only 20$ compared to D3, and is rumoured to have a longer playtime than D3 and you can play whenever the heck you want, the fact that you spent 60$ to play a game shouldn't be limited to whether or not Blizzards servers decide to crap out on you/ or if you internet goes all wonky.
Finally, you stating that you have TL2 preordered does not validate that wall of bias that you just posted.
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Yeeeaah, I've seen TL2 abilities. ALL TEN OF THEM. They're not big or effective enough to constitute proper use. Holding down shift button just to be able to play the game painlessly is not a valid solution. It's just stupid. You act like my post is not correct while agreeing with more than half of it. Skill system is not going to be magically fixed to be amazing in what time they have left until release. And even enchanting 3-4 times with master enchanters makes an item so freaking powerful you need nothing else for at least 5 levels.
And there were only problems with blizz servers first few hours of release, the rest of times is pretty much flawless plus if my internet goes wonky (and it does sometimes) and I get, say, 600 ms latency, the game is still playable. And who cares about game price, they don't cost much at all.
And the amount of bias in my post is two lines, the ones that are last. The rest is facts. Well, maybe I didn't describe the first point clear enough, but from what I've seen of the game, there isn't much point of using AoE abilities since they're generally quite weak and the mobs tend to not to bunch up and split up constantly.
D3 is heaps more user-friendly and contains little unrecoverable choices, you can even restart quest progress if you want. Just a better gameplay, that's all.
I hate it that it's hip to jump on a hate bandwagon whenever a popular game releases and accenuating on the one or two minor problems while otherwise the game is just great. Just because Activision released a game you don't like that's no reason to not enjoy its other games.
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I just stated that the skill trees aren't in the beta are still undergoing massive changes and you know that half the skills aren't even released yet?
I don't know what you're expecting in regards to the skills/spells, are you saying that all the higher tier should be available right off the bat? There'd be no point in investing in the higher tier skills if the level 1 spells are strong enough to overcome bosses. The aoe abilites are pretty strong, I just think you haven't really experienced them yet. Level 14 and 21 is when the good aoe spells become available for the classes that have them (in the beta). There's no telling what other spells are going to be revealed in the final version.
And as for my agreeing with you, I merely agreed in regards skill trees in the the beta build, the cheating thing is really a non-issue, like I stated previously, people who don't use the same mods can't play together.
Enchanting 1 item 3 time took almost all the money I'd acquired from the start to the end of the beta (whole of act 1) so even if it does make an item that much more powerful like you say, you would only be able to enchant enough for one item, coz otherwise you'd only enchant an item 1-2 times max, which would quickly become obsolete as new items are found.
Level cap/progression is different in D3 compared to TL2, I'm pretty sure leveling is faster in TL2, as the level cap is at 100. Therefore, holding an item for 5 levels is hardly a such a big deal.
Also, how is shift+clicking such a big deal? If yo can live with always online drm, which is a much bigger deal for some, how is this even a problem for you? At least shift clicking is considered a solution to a minimal problem, what would the solution to being unable to play online due to server/internet problems?
In closing, TL2 is still in beta, there's still changes to be made/features to be added, UI will be changed (or so I heard).
Regarding that part about 'unrecoverable choices' I'm assuming you're referring to skill respeccing? The devs have said it will not be like the beta where the respec cap is at level 10, they said they will make accommodations for respeccing at later levels, while retaining the feel that each choice in skill points has an impact.
EDIT: I don't hate on D3, I'm merely pointing out the issues many have raised. i just wish they'd did it similar to SC2, where there was at least an offline option.
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Shift-clicking is a major deal because it is actually a gameplay design issue. I can live with some tangential minor inconveniences as long as the main meat of the game is enjoyable and issue-free.
Well if it is as you say and there are going to be major changes until release then it is wrong to compare these games altogether. And I hope Runic will take a hint that theorycrafting isn't fun and changes the skill/attribute system as a whole. The problem I see is TL1 took D2 and made a few changes/additions to it and called it done and TL2 seems to just add a few more on top, while D3 is a major evolution over D2 more suited to the modern gameplay design standarts. Some call it dumbing down, I call it trimming the unnecessary fat and bloat. Honestly, I can't think of a single person who enjoyed leveling up attribute system in D2.
And yeah, 'always on' sucks, but there is a lot of other issues in other games that prevent a chunk of their audience to play it as well, be it console exclusivity or hardware requirements, two-handed controls or one-handed controls, field of view, subscription fee, software/OS requirements, country restrictions, language restrictions, age restrictions, gameplay time concerns, saving systems, control methods, etc... There always will be someone left out, yeah it sucks being one of the minority but you can't think of everybody anywhere ever and still be a succesful company that brings in profits. Sometimes financial investments to cater to everyone are just not worth it.
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To be fair, TL1 was made with a small group of devs (around 20 or less people I think) and they had limited funding, seeing as they were a newly formed company at that time. Hence why the game was basically just one dungeon with loads of floors.
In regards to the leveling up of the attribute system, I'm neutral on that issue, but I'm pretty sure it's one of the gripes a few of the D2 players have about D3.
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Yeah I understand that and it's cool, I didn't really mind the repetivity in TL1. It was even kinda zen. I just hope they aren't making TL1 with a new coat of paint on it.
Well there you have it, "D2 players". Change is scary. Most of the people don't like change. But we need to evolve gaming and build new things using previous games as a foundation, not as a blueprint. Copying leads to stagnation and extinguishes cool new ideas. Making uneducated guesses as you level attributes/skills is not fun and is punishing. If you fuck up, you'll have to start your many-hours-in character all over again. It's much more fun to try out the new things and choosing depending on how well they fit your gamestyle later than choosing one almost randomly and not having the ability to go back later.
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both are awesome. leave it at that... who cares about stats or game-play when its how much YOU, not others, like the game ...these posts are as stupid as "is _____ a good game"
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Huge fan of D1 and D2, kinda liked TL1 but the story was meh, ranged class broken, etc. And I will pass them both, I have tons of other games to play and these (probably both) would keep me busy for quite some time. We all should be happy that we can choose whether TL2 or D3.
*note Metacritic.com is a joke, check all those who rated D3 with 3 and lower. All of them are new accounts with one or two rated games. Same situation was with BF3 and MW3.
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Torchlight 2 will win , and Diablo 3 will lose. I think
Diablo 3 Review : Here
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