what can a community like SG do to change some things?
Nothing, as the problem is on Steam, and as Valve does not seems to think it is a problem - so it is not a problem.
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Yes, the system needs to be revised together with their curation network. However, this is not a problem solely on Steam itself. Its the industry as a whole. There needs to be a board or some form of organization amongst the industry. You can call it the UN of Gaming. Does/will solve the problem? No What it can achieve is a regulation or at least a standard the rest of the industry can follow.
You can also put this Curation Abuse into your OP too.
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Hehe, the UN of gaming :D... I wonder, who will be the permanent members of the security council ;D?
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The usual suspects you know, Gaben eh, more Gaben, erm perhaps just Gaben hahaha.
On a serious note, Yes, Valve, prominent players of the markets like EA, Ubi, SONY, Microsoft, GOG, to PCgamer, gamespot, IGN, kotaku, Twitch, etc.
Obviously the market share you have influence in and impact of your media towards in the industry holds a major role.
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I was wondering if there is maybe a network like this. I asked a developer for that some time ago. Becuase I was thinking they might talk about the system. But nope... Your idea is great, but sometimes I have the feeling and I think, that the gaming industry isnt interested in creating a fair market and system. Only thing that seems to matter is profit.
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Yes, its all about profit and its up to the users us to recognize organizations that are rightful and fair. Like GOG, PCGamer, perhaps Humble, etc. Mainly its the profits that are diversifying the industry and since Valve have/had reached such a point in the market place that it will be great if they come out to organize. Not effectively but an initiative to regulate or even negotiate with majority of the market of initiatives and regulations.
There are devs workshop, bigger publishers have cons, you also have gaming conventions however, everyone is busy selling their products than take interest into regulating else valve curation would not have strafe off this far imo.
Cheers~
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Correct me if I am wrong but that's the Ratings regulation. What I am discussing about its more about business conduct regulation or safety warnings like against scammers/grey markets, etc. Generally that would have benefit the industry, Devs, indies overall.
Cheers~
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The ESRB is the organisation big companies in gaming set up to protect themselves against politicians, their representation.
It literally is the UN of gaming.
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Oh, I see, i guess that's where the bad practices came from hmm. Thank you for the information. :D
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Make thread Category "Promotion". Threads from this category are hidden from All threads list - so user will see them only if he press Promotion button.
You need to pay money if you want to post something in this category, 50$/month for example xD
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Curation was a mistake from the get-go.
DO YOUR JOB VALVE. Don't push it off to others, then get another mess like Greenlight or this system.
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I generally ignore curator links in giveaway, and promoters of stuff. On Steam, if you choose to ignore enough curators, it stops suggesting them to you altogether.
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Nobody told my Steam storefront.
"Oh your playing Neptunia... here's a curator just for you, ALL reviews just saying 'nep nep', isn't that JUST what you want?'
"Get lost Valve"
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I don't care if I have 30, 300 or 3000 followers it's good for me, so from curator point of view it's ok but what I see as a problem that - every single developer, simply becomes curator, and suggests his own games, so you can see recommendations from curators where the only person recommended is the dev :\
And about those people who boost their number with bots its very obvious when a person with bad reviews boosted himself with 50000 bots, so people will simply ignore that genius anyway and he won't affect anything in any way and will get banned anyway sooner or later no?
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I only follow 1 curator and that is Newgrounds. I dont understand why its have its own submenu. These things are there just to be exploited, if a game is good, it will find me without people shoving it down my throat.
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Curators should be removed altogether. Too many /v/ kids, people that "review" games that have yet to be published just to appear on their store pages, "reviews" that are not even reviews, shitposts and so on.
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I can only go and give you my point of view. Ive started my own group and curation after Ive left a big community as you know. Ive written the reviews just because Id like to write. I was former editor in chief at readmore.de and I missed it to write. I dont need a curation to get keys. Most games I review are bought by myself (95%). And I dont care about positive or negative. If I play a game and give it a chance, I try to write a review after Ive played it several hours (~20+) or finished all achievements. If you look at my reviews, youll see that I take a lot of courage into it. I want to do quality reviews, with more information than just "Its good and awesome graphic" or "Sucks like hell".
I also think that constant posting of announcements increase the quality of discussions. Most groups are here to idle. Join and forget. Its work to think about gaming related content that can be published as announcement with an question which makes it possible for others to interact or react. And I truly think that this is what the system is for. A plattform for gamer to discuss, to interact, to share their points of view, their opinions and help each other to improve their gaming experiences. Idealistic or naive?
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Totaly agree! Thats one of the reasons I dont go and write a lot about the graphic and/or sound, only if its very very good/bad. For that the store itself has trailer, screenshots and so on. With 32 I am part of the older group (feeling so) and an intention to write reviews was, that I read a lot of reviews to inform myself about things I cant see in videos. Hows the story? Hows the interaction? Is it worth buying at the moment? Bugs?
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just discovered Curation from "inside", created a group, and named SGurators. i wasn't aware of Curator Connect, tho.
Curator Connect is designed to make it easy for game developers to send review copies to the Steam Curators with the right voice, personality, and audience for the game. Within Curator Connect, game developers will find the tools to search and filter the list of Curators to find the best fit and send a review copy directly and immediately through Steam. No need to mess with e-mails or keys.
that may be the real reason why Curators want followers. So they get games from devs.
Still, Connect and all curation is a tool, a good one if you ask me, still a tool, tho. i don't think it's "overgrown", and if yes, Community will do the work: i'm a follower of a few, and already un-following those that clearly are not curating, they are only hoping to get more games for their library. and i'm quite sure i'm not alone doing this. I've also found a bunch of really good games (few i don't have, rest was already owned)
Then: Steam calls you curation home page "Store Page". You get stats, and pretty detailed ;-)
When you write a review, the game then shows up to your followers in a number of places throughout Steam. When one of your followers clicks on one of those places, we count that as an app view influcenced by your review. This includes clicks on a game in the main capsule on the home page of Steam or clicks through your Curator home page.
to answer your questions: i think community will/can regulate Curators growth. And quality of their curation. I also think it's an awesomely fast, and a truly good tool that gives you the chance to do a lot for gaming world and developers.
I thought about Goblins and Coins, thought about the few devs that are already here, part of our community plus, lastly and mostly, thought about those devs may want to take a look at our wonderful Community. That's why i created that group/curator thing.
tldr: i like Curators, and what we're seeing is just the beginning. community needs a little to "regulate" new things ;-)
as for SGurators: not recruiting. if you want to take a look, here's the closed thread/notepad page:
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curators, the new way to say "i have a job" on the internet! 🐤💰
people, remember to add it to your curriculum vitae along the lines of idler and +1er!
i don't have a problem with users reviewing games or making small groups to post their opinions on games they play (and BUY themselves), but these people playing the celebrity game by making huge groups, leeching keys from devs to trade/sell/idle, spamming reviews that look like ign templates, and most of the time for games they played 30 minutes?
it's really sad. but i think it's even worse that they have "followers" because they want to idle free keys from gleam links. 🤦♀️
reminds me of one of the admins of those useless groups that spam gleam giveaways (not even using gleam, they have their own dedicated site 🤷):
CEO of DNB Media
Entrepeneur
Founder of the REX Network including ReviewExperts
Official Forge of Gods Steam Moderator
holy delusions of grandeur, shut up already. 🤦♀️
and regarding sg and its rules, maybe they shoud put a 0 tolerance policy in place. it's really annoying to see steamgifts used exclusively to market offsite giveaways and social networks.
you want to use sg? nice! make a giveaway here without links to youtube, gleam or twitch.
if you want to promote your "work" (WORK... *cringe*) post them in your stupid steam profile.
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maybe they shoud put a 0 tolerance policy in place.
I'm 110% for that. This site has become one big ad-page for people trying to get more free shit.
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Yeah, totally agreed. Turning an act of kindness into a show, like when people accused of being pricks on the internet use the excuse "But I'm a good person! I donate to charities!"...
Allowing this is allowing yet another way to game the system, although it's definitely more guilty the power that the other systems gives you (aka curations), like being able to make a game successful or a total disaster by mass-posting fake reviews.
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You are the person who is permanently violating the rules of curations, valve and the laws.And then you are openeing a thread about other curators? A person who has one of the worst images with his curator group cause he permanently do not care abotu transaprency to his user and the community. Destroying the image of all curator and reviewer and such a person open such a post. lol....
Let's look to some screenshots:
https://imgur.com/a/GxEMLU7 (you are confirming you do not added the "for free disclosure"
https://imgur.com/a/rFUa0zT (you are confirmign that you are permanently do not care about transparency to your followers or valve. Saying "valve should come")
https://imgur.com/a/D9EUmDe (i am telling him that it's needed to be respectful, fair, and hoenst to the follower and communtiy and he do not care about the disclosure.)
https://imgur.com/a/mE5RzPR (his whole curator shows he didn't used once the recieved for free button. But what did I exept fro ma person who confirmed he does not? Shame on you;)
https://imgur.com/a/RlLb2X7 Some hours before his post he didn't got help form the admin team. Such a joke....
First of all: it's ALWAYS funny to see how the same people do stuff like this.Always of course with just accusings. Always the same: Banned people in the giveaway group, banned scamer from our trading group, rejected people like the trial curator troll, a lazy ex admin which kicked out cause of his permanent hard drug consum, smaller envy curators, or people like that. So thank for confirming. Same stuff with the denied trial curator troll. Nothing new. And now you open your mouth against us even if you know it's wrong after you got blamed in our discord for your behavior against the community and your followers and i didn't protect you and after I attacked you in our discord for your behavior against the steamrules with your reviews withotu disclosure.
About the topic itself: it's of course true. And these curations without reviews, yes or no curations, and stuff like this... Should be banned from steam.Steam is actually working with some curators and reviewers to make curators connect betther and also to make the whole revieewer process betther. I know that some of us wrote already mails about the problem. But it's not so easy cause even if valve invite alot of bigger groups to work with them... just the biggest ones like jim sterlin have a exclusive access to them.And they maybe do not see everything cause they are maybe not even so often on steam. All others just have the option to post a thread, ping a valve employee or write a email. But I guess valve will do something against it. Sooner or later.
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The purpose of the SteamGifts forum is to provide our users a place to share their comments and opinions with each other. Please refrain from dragging on-going battles from other sites into our community here. Currently, we have decided to shut down both sides of the "OGN argument" so as to remove the issue from SteamGifts.
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Has anyone ever cared what any curator has ever said about anything?
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The whole damned curator system needs to go away. Not fix, not change, but just get rid of it altogether.
It's leading to too many false reviews, too much begging for free keys, and too many "developers" getting away with far too much for far too long because "curators" can be bought and sold. For every honest and decent curator, 100 dishonest ones pop up.
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I am blaming the people. That's why I want all of it to go away. :3
It was a nice idea, but would only ever be successful in a perfect world where everyone was honest.
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The problem with the curation system is that it's set up to be used as a sales mechanism rather than promote honest, well-written reviews (which would in turn drive sales more honestly, Darwinist-style). It's become a never-ending circle of developers doing anything for exposure (edit: meaning money), and greedy people taking advantage of it to get free games.
It would take some really extreme control measures to overcome that greed in people, and I don't really see Valve shelling out the dosh to do that, unfortunately.
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Have you considered that a portion of these curators, maybe are honest at least?
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First comment.
For every honest and decent curator, 100 dishonest ones pop up.
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So that is your way of looking at it. Not going to fault you there, i understand.
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To be fair, I follow 12 curators, so I do believe there are honest ones out there. It definitely takes some digging to find them, though. :3
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What if i said that most of them say garbage, not constructive or considerate in all aspects. No doubt that I look at it that way as well and i prefer the honest ones like everyone else does.
But honestly, i don't follow many, maybe three last time i checked.
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What if i said that most of them say garbage, not constructive or considerate in all aspects.
I would agree with you 100%. Really, most are no better than the old review system people complained about. They're not interested in good reviews; they're interested in popularity, free games, and growing their numbers.
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Jims, I've hidden a $100 bill in a pile of cow manure in my backyard.
It's yours if you want to dig through all the crap to get it. :3
Edit: Bring lots of Purel.
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The real question is how to get it out of my yard after.
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If you like it, follow it, and if you don't ... well... don't. What else is there to say really?
Just like horrible artists that have huge followings but no talent... same deal. It's because they make their money off of idiots. Don't blame the artists. Bad analogy, but the first thing that came to mind...
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Yes this analogy is bad :D I mean an artist cant push his amount of "fans" by doing a giveaway where you have to join an group. I hope you know what I mean.
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They don't have to. Record labels do it for them, much like curation, in a sense...
The underground stuff doesn't really get heard and mostly garbage is popular in music, for instance. Still, not the same, but yeah I get what you mean totally.
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As a result of this thread and the history behind and particular because of this thread, I asked myself, if the steam curation system needs to be revised. At the moment all that matters is the amount of follower you have and I know that some people use bots to push this number.
Here on SG ppl try to push them by making giveaways and by spaming and advertising. With the 2nd thread I linked we see why some people try to get a high amount of followers. But is this everything? I mean especially in english, there are a lot of curators who only write down three sentences or less instead of publishing a full review. I mean its way more work to write down a review but isnt it worth?
I saw a lot of group recruitement threads here where curators doing a lot of effort to push their groups and not only their curation. They release a lot of content depending on actual gaming trends, initiate discussions and try to use the whole community system. This is something the system dont notice. Also if your reviews (the written ones by users) are useful of all time or even the funniest, it dont mind. So does the system needs to be revised and what can a community like SG do to change some things?
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