Recently, a CV worth pack prevalent everywhere.
Sometimes a re-roll winner already won it from another GA or bought by himself after the boom of GAs that he never won.
Then he won a re-roll GA and the GA creator have to request re-roll again.
But re-roll of re-roll still increase the ticket loading of site managers.
Perhaps you should give the re-rolled WINNER (not the GA creator) a button, which only present before the GA creator click "send", for automatically re-roll.

EDIT: title changed, original one make everyone confused.

7 years ago*

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7 years ago
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Nice! Just like bundle sites. IF the dude click on reveal and confirm, he will take responsibility after re-roll if the key didn't work.

It will protect both.

Can't tell that i had problems with this before, but it's better prevent than remediate. (brazilian sayings)

7 years ago
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Yes, that would be a nice addition.
I would prefer a button to "See key" rather than actually see it in case you need to ask for a re-roll and later that keys doesn't work.

BTW, in Spain that saying it's also used.

7 years ago
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That's what I want to say.
But I think I didn't present well XD

7 years ago
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*rerolls until finally friend wins the game*

7 years ago
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sure!

I'm already seeing this happen.

7 years ago
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for WINNER
not for the GA creator.
If you can let all other entries ARE from your friends.
I don't think it will become a problem.

Just saying, did my suggestion looks like to give GA creator a right to re-roll unlimitedly?
I mean, perhaps my English is poor enough to let it become an opposite suggestion :P

7 years ago*
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Lots of private groups around here.

Main reason why we can't have regionalized CV, for example.

7 years ago
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I upvote on this. xD

7 years ago
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7 years ago
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To stop gaming the system rerolls should remove the winner of giveaway.

Seems the easiest solution for this.

7 years ago
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If it would be something along the line of the winner seeing a Reveal Key or a Decline Gift button, where the latter would automatically select a new winner, then yes, absolutely.

7 years ago
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like this ^

maybe with an extra 'are you sure' step to prevent accidental declining...

7 years ago
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Let me steal some of your words. :P

7 years ago
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This would probably save a lot of work for support.

The Decline Gift button would need something to make it miss-click proof (aka phone friendly). Type yes in a box then click again or something like that.

7 years ago
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Maybe a field asking the user why they want the giveaway re-rolled (with a minimum length) could help prevent misclicks. Plus it could be logged so if a user regularly refuses gifts support could look at the given reasons and see if there's any shady behavior going on.

7 years ago
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+++

7 years ago
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Can be abused.
Make group with 5 friends. You can now farm CV by buying games for each other with 5 entries and auto reroll until correct person gets it.
Having admin check each time means you can't do obvious abuse like this because the winner has to activate and you can't control who gets it.

7 years ago
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If it can only adopted to the GA that ALREADY re-rolled once.
The first re-roll still need administrator's approve.
I think if someone do it obviously, it should able be detected by administrator when the second time it happen (or third times for make sure).
That's why I did not make this suggestion for ALL GAs :P

Although I don't know if separate an ended GA and a re-rolled GA possible for current system.

7 years ago*
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That's a nice idea :) but yes, they would have to count the number of rerolls then.
Unfortunately this also means this solution won't work for other situations than 'lots of rerolls of same game'. Still it's better than nothing!

7 years ago
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Perhaps a Invite/Group GA will only be granted a reroll option if there are a certain number of entries such as 50+

7 years ago
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Is that abuse though? I'm sure I've seen giveaways where people enter and post a comment pre-asking for a reroll in case they win.

7 years ago
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I'm fairly sure re-rolls aren't granted without a reason. In the scenario described above they would have to rinse and repeat so often (on average 5 times per game, assuming only one person is the intended recipient) that it'd be clear very soon that something is wrong.

7 years ago
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You can already do this and as support gant those re-rolls it can't currently be considered abuse.

7 years ago
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Really? I wasn't aware that they would be allowed to do that, I assumed they'd quickly act on common sense if they found out. Plus, they're usually strict with what grants re-rolls and what doesn't.
EDIT: I see that there is an option named 'Winner rejected gift' so apparently you're right. I still think they'd make an exception if people were clearly abusing it, though.

7 years ago
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Users refusing gifts could be logged, and support flagged if it happens too often.

7 years ago
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(note - I used this post and the comment it's responding to as a springboard, not specifically focusing on those it becomes more of a comprehensive look at this issue, considering the times it comes up, the go-to response/reaction, and inaction that follows)

Seriously. That abuse issue always comes up as an end-all rebuttal when auto-rerolls gets mentioned and it's such a toothless critique.

I mean, if it's all about stopping abuse, we could also have GA creators email support copies of receipts to prove they own a copy to giveaway? Hey that just eliminated 95% of all fake giveaways... but it's dumb as hell because it's so much a massive bottleneck and waste of manpower for such little benefit. It's the same damn thing as clinging to manual checks everywhere instead of automating the reroll system when mutual winner/gifter consent exists. It's just crazy to me how difficult a time people have trying to see this.

Consider....

First, abuse already exists in many ways. The possibility of abuse isn't a reason not to do something highly beneficial in every other regard. Otherwise, this whole site shouldn't even exist.

Second, there are alternate checks that could be put in place. The existence of any flaw isn't a reason not to do something other, it's just a question of whether to implement a check for every 3rd reroll, etc. Or flag them and have support check out those groups later on. They'll actually have time to look into stuff like that now that they don't have a million other tickets to finish first.

Third, is that possibility for abuse any more severe or damaging than the current abuse? I mean you can already just have a group of 6-8 friends who all buy the humble monthly form a group where they trade off giveaways and never matters who wins, and (even if it did) they can still delete and then try again, so no one has to even involve support. It's such an arbitrary place to take a stand about holding back abuse instead of looking towards more efficient means to catch existing examples.

Forth, support doesn't even necessarily notice the groups doing that already with manual re-rolls in place. It's not easy getting clear proof that the group is pulling a scam and with requests are so backed up in the first place it's unlikely those situations even get the level of attention sufficient to generally notice and catch those anyway.

Five, the opportunity cost (ie, the huge amounts of time and energy chewed up) on manual rerolls also means that eliminating them frees up that same time and energy for better uses. Like in the above example, they might actually have a better shot at catching people gaming the system, and even if not, there are so many other areas of the site held up or worsened by the backlogs that could use the extra attention. And that's.. outside of the fact that the support volunteers here would probably enjoy and deserve the added free time from it too.

The benefits are massive compared to the direct cost of implementation and (more importantly) considering the HUGE opportunity costs we incur without it. It's such an obviously superior system to what we currently have in place that it is absolutely mind boggling how blind people can get because of some natural affinity for the status quo.

7 years ago*
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Forth, support doesn't even necessarily notice the groups doing that already with manual re-rolls in place. It's not easy getting clear proof that the group is pulling a scam and with requests are so backed up in the first place it's unlikely those situations even get the level of attention sufficient to generally notice and catch those anyway.

When a user comments "entering for CV, re-roll if I win" it's blatantly clear what's going on. I'm not saying that it's a technique orchestrated across whole groups but it does happen and support do permit it.

I also agree that other systems would offer benefits but I wasn't debating those points, I was just commenting on that specific scenario.

7 years ago
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Sure. sometimes there are those clear examples. Of course not all people are going to communicate it before the giveaways ends or even do it on the site---the idea being that manual rerolls don't even necessarily prevent more abuse than automated ones.

I had figured you felt similarly. That post wasn't entirely (or really even mostly I suppose) a reply to what you wrote, aside from agreeing that the abuse already exists, it mostly was just directed generally at the whole issue . I just sorta used the point you were making as a springboard.

7 years ago
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Except you have to do at least some of it on site. You can't just request a re-roll and get one unless the winner already owns the game. In other cases such as the "winner Refused Gift" which would be the primary use in these cases you'll require a comment in the giveaway stating as such.

If you were agreeing with abuse existing then you weren't agreeing with me. As I said, support allow it so it can't currently be considered abuse. Whatever anyone else may consider it is irrelevant.

7 years ago
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Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying. It seems like you're referring to situations in legitimate groups where people only enter to help the giver reach five members so they get CV for the giveaway rather than not? I had the impression your original post was saying that deliberate CV farming (ie. some collusion of all entrants, where games usually never change hands) exists and that those rerolls cannot always be distinguished from the ones in legitimate groups. That former situation isn't something I think people are particularly concerned with or the type/extent of abuse I think Dan was claiming would result from automation; It's definitely not the type I had imagined anyway.

7 years ago
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It seems like you're referring to situations in legitimate groups where people only enter to help the giver reach five members so they get CV for the giveaway rather than not?

This is what it meant and what I took Dan's original post to mean.

The latter does happen but d#from what I recall when it's been brought up previously is usually picked up on rather quick.. The former Isn't abuse (yet) but can obviously be abused whilst the latter has always been abuse.

7 years ago
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You could simply implement a check that notifies an admin if someone asked for re-rolls a conspicuous amount of times. Kind of a variable counting re-rolls asked by a member that triggers an alert if it gets too many times, and an admin could check if there's this kind of abuse.

Or, a different approach, just enable that for public GAs. In my experience, with group and WL GAs it's much less the case that you have to re-roll. Actually, I don't remember a single time I had to re-roll for group or WL GAs.

7 years ago*
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In my experience, with group and WL GAs it's much less the case that you have to re-roll. Actually, I don't remember a single time I had to re-roll for group or WL GAs.

I had it happen twice. But in both cases the winner won or bought the same game after entering for the GA. It's definitly less in groups though.

7 years ago
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There is already this abuse going on...

But best solution is when declining just to remove the entry and if the 5 entry limit isn't reached don't give the CV.

7 years ago
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After rerolling 1 thing like 15 times so far that sound like a good idea

7 years ago
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I had a giveaway rerolled 4 times recently. By the 4th time it was re-rolled every entrant had the DLC on their account already and it finally had to be deleted. (When I placed the 3rd and 4th tickets, I checked the entries and I had one user who still didn't own it.)

If the winners were able to ask for a re-roll themselves, it would probably have had a valid winner.

7 years ago
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Wouldn't it be easier and i wonder always...why it is not already so, that all
Giveaways for the same game will be automatically exited once you have won this game

Just like when you press sync, I'm not sure because i have never checked it
But I hardly believe that the GAs you already entered, will be left for games which you own after syncing your account

7 years ago*
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If they would find some way to soften the point cap, sure. Otherwise forcing people to exit is bad since you risk wasting points. Adding it to the sync button could be a nice compromise but it could be tricky when the site forces a sync which users are not warned of beforehand, again risking loss of points.

7 years ago
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How would it be a waste of points? If you enter for a certain game multiple times and win it from one of them, how will it be different if you manually leave the other GAs or if it's done automatically? You can't win the same game multiple times anyway (or at least you're not allowed to), so having the system automatically remove you from GAs from the same game seems like a good idea.

7 years ago
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It's only wasted if you hit the 300 point cap. This is usually no problem, but it's not uncommon to occasionally get 100-200 points overnight when people are making a lot of giveaways during a short time, such as with the seasonal events and for instance the recent Spriter craze (an extreme example) which generated like 500 points per hour at some point. In those conditions, you could be very close to 300 most of the time, and if the system removes you while you are busy/sleeping, all the excess points go to waste. It doesn't happen very often, but you can potentially lose a lot once it does happen.
That's why I wish they'd extend the cap with a temporary storage during peak hours, but I guess they don't want point inflation :P alternatively they could just reduce global point gain during peak hours, forcing point deflation and avoid people entering everything. I assume most people here prefer the latter solution.

7 years ago
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That doesn't solve all the problems with re-rolling. I had to ask for re-rolls twice over Christmas as I had won the same game a second time before I had seen the first win. But that's quite a rare thing to happen. As a GA creator, I normally stumble upon re-rolls when I give away DLCs that are not detected correctly. People win and have them already, but not because they've won them around the same time, but because they can still enter though they have them. I'd say, that's about 90% of the cases. So, sure, your suggestion would solve something, but far from every issue with re-rolling asked for by the winner.

7 years ago
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There are 2 problems with this:

  • If you win a GA but the person doesn't deliver, you lose your entries in all others for nothing. (And some of them could be private and hard to find again)

  • Exiting GA when you sync would also be problematic since the Steam API sometimes report you as owning games that you don't. (On free weekend for example.) You wouldn't want your entries being wiped out because there's a free weekend on your most wanted game.

7 years ago
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This would be a good idea for a script.
Somehow add a button if you are still in some ga with the same game, which says "remove all" and then it removes all. So no points are lost, as you decide to press the button, and you don't need to use it at all.

7 years ago
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+1, All up for this idea

7 years ago
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happy cake day :D

7 years ago
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Shhh, you were not supposed to notice it, i don't have money for giveaways atm ;-;

7 years ago
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Who cares about GAs! (lel every1) I just hope you have a great day, maybe eat something delicious like a chocolate bar or cake? Hmmm :3

View attached image.
7 years ago
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This seems like a good idea, if you win something that you previously won or just don't want it (anymore) this would make things easier and faster for everyone.

7 years ago
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I have another suggestion regarding the possibility of abuse, what if you could use this feature only a limited amount of times, after which the creator must contact support directly instead?

For example, the limit would be one automated re-roll. So the creator and winner re-roll, and then another re-roll is necessary. At this point, the giveaway creator would have to contact support through a re-roll request ticket to have it re-rolled any further - at this point, the support member in charge of the re-roll will notice if there is any foul play involved.

7 years ago
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^ this!

7 years ago
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I would suggest unlimited rerolls on public giveaways, and single reroll limit on private/group/wl giveaways,

7 years ago
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Even better. Makes a lot more sense, really.

7 years ago
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It's much better!!

7 years ago
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Limited number per giveaway? So 1 re-roll per giveaway or like giveaway slots?

7 years ago
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Not sure how per giveaway slot would make sense (maybe I'm misunderstanding), so yes, I meant per giveaway.

7 years ago
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I didn't know if you meant like, every giveaway got 1 auto re-roll or say you had 50 giveaway slots you got 50 re-rolls that ran out after you had run out of slots.

Could work, I'm honestly all for any improvements and streamlining of the site which leads to support being able to deal with other things.

7 years ago
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+1 Having the initial reroll not have to go through support will already pull so much work away from them. Then they can actually focus on other matters more.

7 years ago
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Been suggested a lot, open to abuse is what it ends up boiling down to. I'm all for anything that would lower the amount of work support has to get through though, so yeah this idea is right for me.

7 years ago
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See my comment above and Zomby2D's reply, I think this could actually work really well.

7 years ago
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I think making both the winner and Ga creator select Re-role is a great idea that would unload a lot of tickets from the system,in the mean while it wouldn't hurt to get some more trusted volunteers to help with some easier tickets like re-roles.

7 years ago
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Make it also a way to delete the entry, as this is issue with multi copy giveaways and idiots who don't know what they join... And require admin support to fix.

So fixes two things, CV abuse with friends and long queues for waiting for entry removal.

7 years ago
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+1

7 years ago
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I was about to create a suggestion similar, but your idea of discover the key or re-roll is even better, but, sometimes is a gift and can be already sent, so i think that may be dangerous left this tool in the winner hands, check my idea and maybe can improve to something new:

"Maybe is because of the holidays that the re-rolls is taking so long, and some of these that has the agreement of the host and the winner can solve fast and relieve the support, my idea is to create a button of re-roll that need both press to autorize and some reCaptcha to make hard the mistakes.
And 2 steps to autorize too, like this is only available to the host, and when the host autorize, the button will show to the winner accept too, so, only disputes of the no agreement will be held by the support.

  • Will not increase the tickets since is a "fast solution", like that automatic canceled giveaways before ends
  • Maybe you can add a cancel giveaway too (or change game - this last i don't know how works, never tried)"
7 years ago
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