How do you go about making your GAs as fair as possible?
Depends on the game I give away.
If it's a decent game I would like to be played, I set it for LVL4 or 5. With every level going down I care about the game less and less. LVL0 and 1 I use only for games I couldn't care less but also don't need laying around my library.
If it's something really good I will use groups or wishlist. Personally I don't want to deal much with checking every winner.. So I just go by increasing level and going group route for good games and hope for the best.
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regardless of the GA-specific clearly stated rule that excludes them from entry (like winning more than a certain amount of games on SG)
There is no such thing as "GA-specific" rules. There is only the official rules of SteamGifts. I don't read every description of every public giveaway I enter, mostly just the ones of invite-only giveaways during puzzles, trains and events. I only make sure I don't enter for anything I already own or don't want to own and I ask if it's ok to enter if I already own parts of a package.
As for my own giveaways: I use a minimum level of 4-5 to reduce the amount of bots / autojoiners and I blacklist accounts I don't want to join my giveaways for some reason.
I also check my winners via https://www.sgtools.info/activation and https://www.sgtools.info/multiple-wins. As long as they don't violate SteamGifts rules, they get they key, even if I find something I don't like. If for some reason I don't want them to win another game of mine, I blacklist them.
I am not at the point of using whitelist and / or group giveaways, but that might change in the future.
I see a noticeable number of profiles with tens or hundreds of thousands of entries. How is that possible without bots? Especially in a short span of time?
Bot or no bot, every account just gets max. 576 points per day to spend. That is entirely possible by just visiting the site twice a day and spending all available points entering giveaways. Depending on how many points those giveaways cost on average, that could be 11 per day if every single one costs 50 points or 115 per day if every single one costs 5 points or even more for 0-4 points each.
Personally so far I am averaging about a thousand giveaways entered per month which would be around 30-33 per day.
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I also check my winners via https://www.sgtools.info/activation and https://www.sgtools.info/multiple-wins.
Thanks for the tools. I see they check in general.
There is no such thing as "GA-specific" rules.
There certainly is. Maybe I wasn't clear in wording it though: GAs made within groups with specific rules. So the group rules naturally apply to the GAs.
Maybe the entrant hasn't broken any SG rules but they have definitely violated the rules they agreed to before being admitted into the group with the GA. That's the whole point of the group.
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Groups can't dictate their own rules to SG. The only consequence of breaking group rules will be kicking out of a said group (and maybe some well-deserved blacklists), it's not a reason for a reroll since no SG rules have been violated.
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Yes, no debate there. My question was, "is there a way to request a new winner?" It seems the answer is No.
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It is possible. The winner has the option to forfeit their win and agree to a reroll request as long as they haven't revealed the key, but if you're dealing with someone who's breaking group rules, chances are that they'll insist on claiming their win.
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Bot or no bot, every account just has max. 576 points per day to spend. ...
Useful to know. I appreciate you breaking down how this works.
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You can stretch that number a bit by "storing" points in longer running giveaways. You get the points back when leaving a giveaway and then could have more than the cap of 400 points to spend at once. But you still only ever get +6 points every 15 minutes as long as you don't already have 400 points available, so that just shifts the point in time when those points are spent, not the total amount of points spent.
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it's current state. In past there was 300 points cap limit, but points were generated when users were creating giveaways. Also there was no game value cap - so you had games that entries cost 60p or 100p. They generated a lot of new points though.
Take for example that funny situation:
sale on steam - turning GAs for 10p into 100p due to being part of package, bundle with game maker apps (1$ for 4x 60p giveaway) - if you combine it with 1$ bundles thet used to create abundant amount of 1-10p giveaways - you could have endless amount of entries in short time period. It doesn't work like that anymore (and thanks god for that), but older accounts have usually more entries than you would predict according to how site works nowadays.
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This is insightful and answers many questions. I appreciate the history recap :)
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You could make a group and define the type of people you want to win your games. I think group giveaways is the only sure fire way.
Other than that, higher levels or creating sgtool giveaways with custom entry requirements will help a little.
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Groups certainly help but still. They seem to still be handcuffed against bot users who win, even when they win by violating the group rules they agreed to.
Groups + higher levels + sgtools may be a good combo.
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In my former puzzle creating career I've seen high level members, members of really good strict groups, ... who were somehow cheating the rules, one way or the other. Honestly, in the end, you're just wasting your time and patience trying to fight it. It's like DRM, only hurts the real people.
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That's what annoys me, like why would they do that? A slew of reasons, I guess, but it's just frustrating.
Honestly, in the end, you're just wasting your time and patience trying to fight it.
For a little bit until I figure out a way to make my GAs fair and repel the bot armies and undesirable entrants.
It's like DRM, only hurts the real people.
Off topic for me, but why not: I can see both sides of the DRM argument.
I just dislike the whole license thing (i.e. we don't own games anymore, we license them from publishers), which is made possible only via DRM. That's its true evil imho.
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like why would they do that?
Some people are bastards and SG isn't some magical exception? I'd like to say "it's the young", "it's those who don't think", "they never created anything so they don't value anything"... But let's face it, it's not just 12 year old's, it's not just people from some poor countries where piracy or "cat eats cat" behavior is normalized, it can be everyone from anywhere and it's basically impossible to predict who it's gonna be.
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You know, when I first replied above I actually went on a tangent about this and published it. Then thought it's not worth the drama and edited it out entirely.
If we're being honest and direct, you're 100% right.
By the way, it says at the bottom of the site Powered by Steam. Any idea what that means? I'm curious.
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It's worded a bit weirdly, but I think what it means is that they use steam API and OpenID to run the website, check if you activated a game and so on...
Are you affiliated with Valve
Our site uses the Steam OpenID provider to authenticate users. However, we have no direct affiliation with Valve or the Steam platform, and we're simply a community of gamers that are fans of PC gaming and Steam.
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There is no perfect solution, only compromises with flaws and failures.
I once did some sort of "casting" to find a deserving winner for a Crusader Kings 3.copy. The result wasn't bad, as the winner played it for 42.4h.
For greater gifts that mean much to you, I simply wouldn't rely on SG. Make personal and direct gifts instead.
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I just went through your GA topic and it's certainly a good way to pick a deserving home for a good game :) Thanks for the advice. I've seen this method (of requiring significant playtime in similar or previous entries of the same game) before only once elsewhere and it does seem to work well.
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1, Yes there is, but idling games isn't a good enough reason not to gift the game.
3, It's not, unless you have and addiction to SG.
4, No correlation there. It's just that a lot of users that give away a lot of games have either been around for a long time, or sit in groups with small amounts of members giving them much higher chances to win.
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1, Yes there is, but idling games isn't a good enough reason not to gift the game.
It's not idling that bothers me. It's the fact that it's an alt and parked account. Almost zero activity.
3, It's not, unless you have an addiction to SG.
Thank you for saying it out loud.
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3, It's not, unless you have an addiction to SG.
Thank you for saying it out loud.
Like several people including myself have said: it's entirely possible to spend all possible points on giveaways when just visiting the site twice a day. You're only missing out on the short giveaways but as long as you don't own or ignore thousands of games already, you will most likely be able to spend all of your points this way anyways. Bots / autojoiners don't get more points to spend. But they get even the 1h giveaways 24/7 if they have enough points.
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You're missing the point here, Wax.
For the sake of not repeating myself, feel free to read this:
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Daffkws
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Nah, you're missing the point: visiting this site twice a day and spending all points doesn't take "ungodly amounts of time". Sure, the more you care about, for which games you enter, the more time it will take (at least initially. With a well-kept ignorelist, it gets easier), but just spending all your points twice a day probably won't take longer than a few minutes each time.And if someone chooses to spend more of their time, who are you to judge?
Also there's browser extensions like ESGST, which can even speed up the process by giving you an enter / leave button for each giveaway on the giveaway lists. And before you ask: yes, that is allowed, as long as you still have to click to enter manually. It's not an autojoiner. And yes: that also means, that if you see someone entering several giveaways in quick succession, it still doesn't have to be a bot / autojoiner.
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Sure, the more you care about, for which games you enter, the more time it will take
^This
Everything else you mentioned is a way to speed up the process and still requires lots of time 'at least initially'. How much time does initially cover? Rhetorical question btw
Feel free to argue this point as much as you want, but it's true. Or forget that and consider you won this argument as I rather not argue variables and semantics and rather save time doing something I enjoy.
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No need to get defensive.
I tried leaving the conversation nicely but you just cannot let it go.
You make a lot of assumptions and I won't bother correcting you.
You cannot force your point on me or anyone, WaxWorm. I hope you come to realize that. Thanks.
I'll try to ignore you from now on. Bye.
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+1 but you get 400 points right (i forget how fast they generate) but that could equal 400 giveaways if they are 1p each
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yes, that too. i don't know the exact time, but i found them to be generated to max from almost empty in around a day or so.
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It's 6 points every 15 minutes (so 24 points per hour, or fully replenished in less than 17 hours), and I know because I watch the clock like crazy when I'm close to the points required to enter a new GA π
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Thank you. It seems I really need to incorporate sgtools in GAs then.
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What can I say! Decisive and effective.
Β―(γ)/Β―
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The only solution that is consistent to me is moderated group GA's. Unfortunately, that is inherently a problematic answer because making it to these groups is not easy and I'm sure there are a lot of people that deserve to be there and are not, but any other alternative feels less than ideal. Whitelist is good because it gives you a lot of control, but goes back to the same issue with people who deserve a chance and you haven't found yet.
If I have to make a GA public, I absolutely won't use less than Level 2, but even that feels too low nowadays.
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You saw the true point of this post, friend :)
It bothers me that deserving users are effectively walled out because of the practices of greedy people.
I know this is SteamGifts, not SteamCharity but yeah.
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Usually, moderated Group GA's at least ensure that your game will go to someone who will play it, or at the very least, that also contributes to the community, and that enough is what drives me to keep gifting games every now and then.
Gating Public GA's with a Lvl 3 or Lvl 4 will definitely reduce the number of re-rolls or unsatisfactory gifts you'll have to give, and if you keep WL folks you find deserving, eventually, you'll have a large enough list that you'll consistently get enough entries on your GA's. My whitelist at this point is around 250 people I think, so I can already rely pretty much only on that if I want to ensure my gifts will be played
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if you keep WL folks you find deserving, eventually, you'll have a large enough list that you'll consistently get enough entries on your GA's.
Yes, it'll take time but for me the downside is it will exclude newcomers.
I'm actually WL people who give a little more more than they receive, people whom I bump into by chance in discussions, etc. Although I need to figure out what can they possibly want as a gifted game because they're already set / not looking for any (it seems?).
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That's similar to the approach I take - WL people who are kind on the forums and people who have a good ratio not built on asset flips. The good thing about Steam is that there are so many games out there, it's very likely even someone with a 10,000 strong library might still be looking for that one gem you are gifting :)
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Let me emphasize a point some people made: # of entered GAs is not an evidence of using a bot at all! Well, it is evidence of "not having a life", but many meatbags (like me, 122k entries in 11 years) qualify! :D :D
That's because every account, no matter if "botted" or not, receives the same amount of points (24 per hour). Anybody that enters the site twice a day is able to spend all his/her points just as much as a bot. Bots do NOT enter more GAs then "no-lifers".
What bots are able to do is to enter GAs quickly (or anytime during the day); so, if anybody enters 20 GAs in the same second (or if they enter GAs every 30 minutes the WHOLE day every day), ok, that is suspicious.
(I actually would like to have a higher "minimum duration" for GAs for that reason, then bots would have no benefit at all in this regard... But that has been discussed, and folks thought the benefits did not justify the hindrances that come with the idea.)
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I hear you, but bots make it so easy for people to do it. No one who values their time would spend ungodly amounts of time entering game lotteries when they can use that same time to actually enjoy themselves playing a game.
(I actually would like to have a higher "minimum duration" for GAs for that reason, then bots would have no benefit at all in this regard... But that has been discussed, and folks thought the benefits did not justify the hindrances that come with the idea.)
I fully agree. Too bad it wasn't implemented.
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depends really, if i gift a game i like i'd limit it to a group of people, if it is something i dont care i decide for every 10β¬ which tier it will get.
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The higher the value of the game, the higher the level required to enter it. Makes perfect sense. Except I just saw a GA for Shapez (tiny game from a recent Humble) restricted to lvl 4. I lol'd!
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After weighing the pros and cons of public giveaways I prefer these threads for invite only giveaways which are essentially public but avoid bots to a certain extent:
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Rl7Jo/dont-like-bots-post-your-random-invite-only-giveaways-here/
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/eOYPH/positive-thread-giveaways
My minimum level requirement is 2 because there are too many users not adhering to or understanding SG rules in the lower levels.
However as I wise up over time I lean more to whitelist and group only giveaways.
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Giving away games is shaping up to be a learning curve in its own right sigh
I'd come across this and was interested but seeing sgtools made me mentally groan. I might need to learn this, whatever it is, after all.
My minimum level requirement is 2 because there are too many users not adhering to or understanding SG rules in the lower levels.
and users in the higher levels just outright ignore rules when they don't suit them! Check my currently active giveaways for a clear example lol
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1.
You see an entrant, which upon visiting their Steam profile, is clearly an alt that idles games, but you're forced per SG rules to send the key anyway. Well, is there a way to request a new winner?
There is no such thing. You can suspect someone to be an alt, but you don't know it, and of course it's not "clearly", just "in your opinion". No, you can't request new winner in this case, but if you have strong proof that this is an alt (no, "just look at it's profile" is not a proof) - you can report them. Technically if they are banned - you will get your re-roll, but problem is - user report resolved VERY slow, so unless you have some moderator as your friend and can ask them directly to review your ticket - no chance that it will happens during a week when you need to send the key.
2.
Some/Many users use bots. Even if it's officially banned, it's clear as day that bots are being used.
The biggest giveaway (pun intended) is that they enter the GA regardless of the GA-specific clearly stated rule that excludes them from entry (like winning more than a certain amount of games on SG).
My question here is two-fold:
a) How do I prove this user is using a bot so I can report them?
b) If reporting them for whatever reason is frowned upon, how do I do what they do? lol
First of all, you CAN'T put some specific rules in giveaway description. I mean, technically you can, but users are not required to follow it, since extra rules are direct violation of SG rules. So, if you post some specific rules - every sane user will just ignore them, and it does not means that they are using bots. You can ASK NICELY - and then probably majority of users will do as you asked (but clearly, not all of them, and only thing that you can do to those who don't - is blacklist them, but then you will be bigger jerk than they are). As to your questions:
a) it's hard. And those who know how to do it - won't tell this publicly, because that will allow bot users to improve their strategies.
b) reporting them is fine, but asking how to do the same as they do is frowned upon.
3.
I see a noticeable number of profiles with tens or hundreds of thousands of entries. How is that possible without bots? Especially in a short span of time?
Open site, enter giveaways for all points. Repeat twice a day. If you don't care about what you win - it's very fast. If you care - well, it sure takes more time and may require more than two visits per day. But anyway - it does not require much time or efforts, and easily achievable without bots.
4.
Is there a correlation between giving away many games and winning or is that just pure luck (which I seriously doubt)? ? or is it users using bots again entering GAs en masse?
Well, it's moslty luck, only "correlation" is that with higher level you can enter high-level giveaways, which has less entries for obvious reasons and thus have higher chance to win. But making more giveaways to get more wins is just stupid and will never pay off. You can enter some closed groups that have much higher chance of win, but ultimately if you care about send/won ratio - you should stop making a giveaways and go to steamtrades instead - there you will achieve whooping 100% ratio - you will get as much as you give.
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but ultimately if you care about send/won ratio - you should stop making a giveaways and go to steamtrades instead - there you will achieve whooping 100% ratio - you will get as much as you give.
There's probably still people who will at least try to rip you off. ^^
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First of all, you CAN'T put some specific rules in giveaway description.
You need to talk to group moderators then or stop asking to join groups or change the way SG groups work.
I mean, technically you can, but users are not required to follow it, since extra rules are direct violation of SG rules.
Then SG needs to enforce this on groups.
So, if you post some specific rules - every sane user will just ignore them,
'sane' or greedy and obnoxious?
You can ASK NICELY - and then probably majority of users will do as you asked
But you just said 'every sane user will just ignore them'
so, 'majority of users' are not 'sane', according to your own twisted logic?
(but clearly, not all of them, and only thing that you can do to those who don't - is blacklist them, but then you will be bigger jerk than they are).
Spoken like someone truly stung from being blacklisted.
I find it endearing that you shout out the word 'nicely' then jump to calling others jerks if they don't do what you think they should.
You have quite the thought process there, bud.
Have a good day.
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You need to talk to group moderators then or stop asking to join groups or change the way SG groups work.
Group rules has nothing to do with SG rules. If you violate group rules - you will be expelled from a group (and possibly blacklisted by some members), but there is no punishment on SG for that, and on top of that - if someone who violated group rules won in your giveaway - you MUST deliver the gift anyway, otherwise YOU violated SG rules and will get a suspension.
'sane' or greedy and obnoxious?
If someone greedy and obnoxious trying to set their own rules - it's only sane to ignore their claims. As I said, asking politely is entirely different case - if someone asks politely - it's considered good manners to follow what that nice person asks.
But you just said 'every sane user will just ignore them'
so, 'majority of users' are not 'sane', according to your own twisted logic?
I said that sane user will ignore fake rules, not polite request. That's two different cases.
Spoken like someone truly stung from being blacklisted.
I find it endearing when people believe that they know how I feel better than me. I'm okay with blacklists, that's part of SG rules, they work fine. Yes, majority of blacklists on the site are not "well deserved", but given for personal reasons. Even big part of mine are like that - recently I started blacklisting again for personal reasons, like "this guy is a jerk and I don't want to deal with him anymore". That probably makes me worse person, but it is what it is. Previously I only blacklisted rule violators, because moderators are rules are not strict enough. I believe blacklists for multiaccounting and multiple-wins are "well deserved". And when someone blacklists me - I have only one of two feelings: "I probably was bad person and deserved it" or "Are you kidding me? You don't even make giveaways!". The latter one are like 20 times more common.
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Didn't bother with all that. Won't waste my time in squabbles.
You unintentionally made it easier to ignore you. Bye :)
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You asked questions and now you pretending to be smarter. Honestly, you should stop feeling so entitled. I wasted my time to answer your stupid questions, because I was willing to help. If you don't want help and just want to feel superior - sure, go ahead, I won't bother you anymore.
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I'm sure all of these were answered properly, but my two cents.
Since it's difficult to prove someone is an alt or bot you can't. You can check via sgtools if the person activated all of their gifts. (If it's a bot chances are the keys were sold or activated on their main account.) This can be a resason to ask for a reroll.
But many people here just enter giveaways to have a "+1" in the number of games and to farm cards to sell them (I guess?), they are not necessarily bots or alts just because of this.
a) You can try the method above, other than that not much that I know of.
b) I don't think it's frowned upon. It's just some people like to play pretend and say there are no problems here. (Like bots, alts, etc.)
It is possible they are entering low point GAs for those sweet +1s.
Winning is random, it's up to luck. You have better chances if you enter giveaways with a lower amount of entries (like higher level, group / WL or quick GAs) and simply if you enter more giveaways.
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What I have always done, is make my GA's the same level as my own. I've gradually worked my way up from level 1 to 6 and will continue to do so to 10. I also never worry about who the winner is or their motivations. If they entered the GA then they wanted the game, and I don't care why. It makes me happy knowing that somebody logged in to see the silly space cat gif :-)
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The level needs to be at least two or three. Use SGTOOL, or a simple jigsaw puzzle to block BOT.
When someone wins a giveaway, confirm that the account has added games. If not, report it.
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Hi SG :)
I'm kinda new here. Just recently started being active and was wondering about this.
I've taken note of the different ways GAs are made and it's raised some questions:
You see an entrant, which upon visiting their Steam profile, is clearly an alt that idles games, but you're forced per SG rules to send the key anyway. Well, is there a way to request a new winner?
Some/Many users use bots. Even if it's officially banned, it's clear as day that bots are being used.
The biggest giveaway (pun intended) is that they enter the GA regardless of the GA-specific clearly stated rule that excludes them from entry (like winning more than a certain amount of games on SG).
My question here is two-fold:
a) How do I prove this user is using a bot so I can report them?
b) If reporting them for whatever reason is frowned upon, how do I do what they do? lol
I see a noticeable number of profiles with tens or hundreds of thousands of entries. How is that possible without bots? Especially in a short span of time?
Is there a correlation between giving away many games and winning or is that just pure luck (which I seriously doubt)? ? or is it users using bots again entering GAs en masse?
Thanks and have a great day.
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