Stolen keys get voided, that has happened time and again, even exploited keys from free promos have been voided and not just once.
But even if, for whatever reason, Groupees or the developers who supplied them with the keys, didn't or couldn't do that, it doesn't change the fact that they're stolen.
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In my case, stuff that I did pay for actually appeared in my account now! They sold Kaptain Brawe in BeMine4, but after a couple of months, it got removed from my profile for some reason. It's finally back.
So it's more like they stole from me and finally gave it back.
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I did bring it up with support. They said the key was removed because the developer asked them to remove it or something like that. Considering that I paid for the bundle and that was one of the main draws, I found that to be unacceptable.
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Nope, you are trying to compare apples to oranges.
A more apt analogy would be if you sold the guy your car but accidentally left something in the trunk.... except the problem is he already took possession of the vehicle and drove off, so you are out of luck.
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I guess you aren't familiar with this kind of bugs that turn out to be free keys, in most of the cases when this happened, companies didn't void the keys, here the responsibility is not only on Groupees, but on devs too, if they remove it then you lose absolutely nothing, but if they actually do, consumers won't like this and this will affect bad to their reputation.
But all I can say for now "GRAB YOUR FREE KEYS AND USE THEM :P"
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Well what you are talking about is ethics (and your seemingly stubborn insistence to impose/force your own on others), but that is something that is subjective and varies from one person to another. There was no criminal or illegal activity insofar as this glitch was concerned, so once again, stolen is not (and never was) the right way to describe it.
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That's......not a good analogy. There's still some kind of break in occurring in that scenario.
I'd say it's more like you finding someone's cash that they accidentally dropped in your home. These keys are showing up on people's personal profiles, even if it's not intentional, and not everyone viewing their profile is going to be aware about the glitch.
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You are, of course, correct, weirdfish. But I wish you the best of luck in trying to convince anyone here that either has the moral ineptitude that disallows them from seeing that they are doing something fundamentally wrong, or convincing those that will always attempt to justify their actions.
Just posted to give you a little support and to let you know that there are those of us that have purchased from Groupees that will not use any unpurchased keys on principle (that would be me included).
I am raising my children in the same fashion. They will likely not be CEOs. :)
Happy New Year's to you and g'luck.
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Stranger's Wrath: 34Q28-AGET4-0KZLW
Tropico 3: 93559-MECFV-LV03T
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A-TRAIN 8: 7KR0A-808GQ-6Q@59 (@=the letter between A and C)
ECHO OF THE WILDS: @D24G-PJE84-KECDW (@=nine)
EPIGENESIS: 3LE40-A@X7Z-P9CAF (@=zero)
HALF MINUTE HERO: 5E5YB-8FJWQ-YRG@@ (@@=short for public restroom, water closet)
GRIMIND: ZQV5D-RGMWM-68ZM@ (@=last letter in the alphabet)
TRAIN SIMULATOR 2013: WB@@9-BX224-LXX83 (@@=short for landing zone)
SPACE HACK: 2XQBL-2H85Q-N4C7V
KNIGHTSHIFT: 5MF5J-GFAA7-R2RG4
Thanks, Gramis!
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Erm what are you talking about?
Steam doesnt mark you as a scammer for revoked keys, let alone banning you from anywhere
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Tracking these "extra" keys is going to be some effort, I wonder how long it'll take them.
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its like i got ice-cream , and they gave me an extra scoop, and now they want it back from my belly.
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Just a heads-up here: they either fixed the glitch or rolled back whatever caused it, but in doing so they also seem to have incorrectly affected bundles purchased via the dollar days promotion that they ran for a few of the bundles. I had previously bought a second Be Mine 13 bundle via the dollar days promo and now all of the Tier 2 games are missing from my profile even though they should not be. I let them know about the issue so hopefully it will get fixed soon.
Update: Looks like my extra Be Mine 13 bundle is now fixed
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Looks like you may be right, thanks for the info.
Now if only I could get my damn Nekro keys replaced. I e-mailed the dev weeks ago and followed the directions 'to a T', and followed up a week later with a 2nd e-mail, but still nothing. I will definitely be escalating this issue with Groupees very soon. Legitimate customers should not simply be ignored or have to jump through these ridiculous hoops just to get the game they paid for. It's pure horseshit.
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Will do. I wish I could say that I see light at the end of the tunnel but right now I don't. Need to see what Groupees can do about it. The developer of the game seems like a complete douchebag. Everything about this mess stinks, from the way they wrote the announcement with the instructions to how it seems like they are trying to weasel their way out of providing keys. If they are not making good on them then I really hope that someone files a class action lawsuit.
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For what it's worth here's the times I waited.
First email sent with one key to be replaced 20/9/2014. Received reply 23/9/2014.
Second email sent with two keys to be replaced 20/10/2014. Received reply 4/12/2014.
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I had an unused Betrayer key from some bundle. can't find it anywhere now..
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If that has been on Groupees, I will be annoyed that I missed it. Didn't get to that Russian site in time for a free copy either.
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The tier 2 games are still missing from my extra dollar days Be Mine 13 bundle. They aren't showing on my games tab either. They were all redeemed anyway (except Nekro, which the developer doesn't seem to want to replace) but if they get revoked now due to a screw up on their behalf I will be really annoyed.
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Great, so basically, I get to feel like a sucker for reserving a bundle at $2 when far more people got it for $1. But the few keys I found searching through over a lot of time will get revoked.
On top of that, some of my bundles seem to now be missing games that legitimately belong there.
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I was hoping groupees might be unable to easily revoke (or think it's not worth it) the wrongly enabled tier2 games. AND that they might actually screw up again and accidentally remove legitimate stuff as well. So maybe in the end they'll just go ahead and say "whatever, let the few (didn't last long and it was in the middle of the night in both US and EU) guys who were lucky here keep it before we fuck up all our other customers".
Still hoping. Meanwhile, at least I'm (still) farming all the cards (which btw doesn't cost groupees anything,
and even makes everyone else earn money: Me, Valve, and the Game Developers. It's a Win-Win-Win-Situation^^).
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If your statement was meant as a single thought, then disregard, but I read it as "They can revoke? My ass".
Considering that they have the ability to activate Steam keys on your account, it's safe to assume they can also revoke them. This feature is not included in the regular Steam API. You must request this and it requires approval from Valve.
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I'm glad I keep all of my keys in excel in case they decide to remove more of my purchased keys.
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Me too, I always keep a copy of my bundle keys somewhere else just in case. As long as they don't revoke anything I've actually paid for.
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If the keys get revoked, I will never support Groupees again. Steam doesn't revoke games when the prices glitch. Groupees would be doing a major disservice to their customers to screw them for a mistake that was made on their end. They should leave everything alone and it is what it is.
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I doubt Groupees would need to pay very much for this glitch. Most people don't pay more than $1, or whatever the minimum is anyway for these bundles, giving the developers like 10-20 cents each. This is not reason enough to be revoking keys as the loss to Groupees would be minimal compared to how many people were probably able to take advantage of the glitch before it was fixed. My account was back to normal within a couple hours, so others probably didn't take much longer, if even.
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You get what you thought you would get. Every bundle you paid for will be as it was at moment of purchase. When price glitched for bundle in a box you get to keep it. Thats price glitch. When games suddenly show in your library steam does make them disappear. Thats library database error. If you still doesn't feel like supporting groupees i don't think you'll be missed.
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As much as I like free stuff like anyone else, I have to disagree. The difference is you didn't pay anything for these games, where in your example you did. Not a single cent. That is a very important distinction. They are well within their rights to revoke the keys and I wouldn't blame them one bit if they were to do so. Look to your own attitude on the matter if you want talk about disservice.
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People exploiting bugs... they never learn anything
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For now keys aren't revoked, even if they will we don't lose anything, I also got all the cards already, and by a similar bugs I got myself Borderlands Pre Sequel for $8.6 when it was supposed to be Borderlands 2, I also got more games when by some error they were given for free, or made profit when games where at error price on Steam, retrading them, so you can't say ppl never learn anything, ppl actually do, for example I learn that you don't lose anything if keys are revoked, but if they aren't you get free/cheap games :P Also too bad I missed when by some error Deadrising 3 was free on Gamesplanet :(
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I hope they don't screw up, as I have 99% BTA purchases
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We are posting here now since we received an email requesting clarification whether keys that were mistakenly added to past bundles will be revoked. As reported above, a system bug caused keys from prior bundles to be added to user profiles mistakenly. Since users who purchased these bundles did so without any expectation of receiving these extra keys, the keys were removed from user profiles. Be advised that if you did redeem the keys, the keys are being sent to Valve and will be revoked. This does not apply to users who purchased Bundle in a Box 2 for a $1 during the period of time when the bundle wrongly reflected that the $4 games were included. Those purchases will be honored.
Based on some comments in this post and the email that was sent, it sounds like some people are upset and feel entitled to keep these keys. To be honest, that is very disappointing to believe folks feel that way. Regardless, we do apologize for any inconvenience you feel you have suffered here. And if you are missing a key from any bundle that your purchased, please let us know via email at support@groupees.com. Thank you.
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Also revoked/deactivated Nekro keys. Sure it was done by devs, but Groupees took money and is legally responsible for delivering. Dev promised to give replacement, but many have said not to receive a replacement and they even threat if you contact again, you won't be getting one.
Edit: http://steamcommunity.com/app/246400/discussions/0/619569341071480896/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/246400/discussions/0/627456486597454205/
http://steamcommunity.com/app/246400/discussions/0/626329820671719377/
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In the case of Groupees, I very much doubt they were told by the devs that this was going to be done, and while it sucks, be sure to blame the ones at fault for it.
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Yes, it was done by devs. But groupees took money. Which gives them responsibility over product working (like warranty on physical products, you contact seller and seller contacts manufacturer). I was not personally affected but seems like groupees havent done anything despitte reports.
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Yeah, they accepted money. But the way you are acting, you seem to think they could predict the future of those devs being arseholes. They didn't know that shit would be done.
And refunding a portion of the bundle cash for thousands of users after the fact (and out of their own wallet to, since I'm sure the arsehole devs responsible for the problem you are complaining about surely wouldn't pay back the cash) would be damn near impossible.
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I'm okay with them doing what they were supposed to. Guess what, Groupees didn't take your money and cancel the keys, the game publisher did.
Groupees got contacted by the publisher to have their game in the bundle, did it, gave them their share of the cash, then the publisher decided to cancel the keys. Not Groupees. So why the hell do you think they are at fault?
It would be like blaming SteamGifts support for everything if a site user here didn't deliver a win. You go after the person who didn't deliver, not the site Support who have nothing to do with that user being a jerk.
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And yet you still continue to act like Groupees is the one to blame. I hate to be rude, but are you **ing retarded**? My own brother has mental disabilities, and yet I'm pretty sure even he would comprehend that you are blaming the wrong people.
Does this make it clear enough to you that darkForge Games is the one to blame?
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Yes, but it doesnt mean groupees arent responsible.
If you buy tv/computwer part and its broken or breaks, you would send it to seller (groupees) who is responsible instead of going to manufactyrer (darkforge). Its then upto seller to fix it (most likely with maanufacturer).
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In the US, you take out your shotgun and blast the burgler.
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Allow me to tell you exactly how much control Groupees has over cancelled keys. None. They can't make Valve re-enable them, they can't make more of them, they didn't cancel them in the first place. That is all darkForge Games.
Or perhaps you want a refund? Guess who took the money before cancelling the keys. darkForge Games again.
Basically, you want them to fix what darkForge Games has broke. The problem is, only darkForge Games can fix it. Groupees doesn't own darkForge Games, and if they are willing to flip the bird towards thousands of customers, what do you believe Groupees can do to change that? Asking for more keys would only work if darkForge Games cared. They don't.
Now please, grow a brain, and stop making me believe you are mentally retard.
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madjoki's example fits decently though. I work on enterprise server design and validation. If our suppliers send us some defective part that breaks down over time, who do you think our customers go to when there's a problem Us, or our supplier?
We are responsible for everything in our systems, even if something breaks and it's entirely not our fault.
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I never said to trust the companies that do it. But you seem to think it was Groupees that went and cancelled the keys. It is already known that it was done by the game company. So I really don't see why you continue to blame Groupees for it.
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How? By refusing to have sold the keys they were not told would be cancelled? That couldn't be done, because they don't know the future and couldn't predict darkForge Games is arseholes.
Refunding everyone isn't really possible, because its a single part of a bundle price, and the money has already gone to all the devs anyway.
Take it up with the people to blame. AKA darkForge Games. Not Groupees.
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Hypothetical question: If you buy a game on Steam, Aliens vs. Predator, for example, and instead of only removing the game from the Steam store, it also gets removed from your library, would you consider the publisher 100% at fault and not blame Steam at all?
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I'd talk to Valve support, but in that case, Valve actually has some control. Groupees has no control over what the publishers of Nekro did, and short of getting them in court or something like that, there isn't much they can actually do about the jerks. darkForge don't care that customers paid for the keys, and are the only ones that control them. Groupees can't contact Valve and have them re-enable the keys.
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However, it should be Groupees responsibility to get keys from the devs, which should involve a lawsuit.
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Lawsuits don't really work magic. It would be Groupees spending money to try and get some keys out of a company that doesn't care. Considering they cancelled keys that were paid for, it wouldn't make a difference if Groupees won other than in their wallet. Even if darkForge Games did what was required of them (and nothing in the law will be forcing them to, it will simply be "You have to do this" "Nuh uh, make me", much like the devs that made Transcripted and then never got a cent), they would just repeat their actions.
The only ones with control don't give a **** about the customers, and Groupees can't make them care.
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In most of the world (admittedly not the US), English rule is in effect and the losing party must pay the winner's legal costs. If the loser refuses to pay, that is what debt collections are for.
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Its still money spent in the first place. And for what? I've already posted examples of the kind of bullshit that goes on. It only works if the company cares. darkForce threatens customers on their forums.
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That was only an example. Perhaps not the best as it allowed you to ignore the valid part of my post and pick apart the rest.
So let me repeat myself, you stated "Groupees took money and is legally responsible for delivering". They did deliver and you chose not to activate it. How is that Groupees fault you neglected to activate it?
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Why would they? They had no reason to expect the bullshit. Take it up with the arseholes responsible. Groupees at no point was told it was happening (or you know they would have never accepted them in a bundle), they at no point requested the keys be cancelled themselves.
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It doesn't matter that it's not groupees fault. By law they are required to provide the product that they are selling. They can't half-ass it just because the dev decided to be a dick.
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The problem is, they did. They gave the keys the developer provided them with. Then the dev had them all voided after the bundle.
Its ****ing bullshit, but it was something Groupees has no control over. They can't magic up more keys for those users, and the ones who can didn't care that they were paid for in the first place.
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Yes, but they are required to give fully functioning keys. What really should have happened is, assuming both parties are in the same country/conglomerate, Groupees needed to sue darkForge to get the keys they are required to give to the buyers.
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They did everything they could. They didn't have warning about the keys, and hindsight can't fix it.
Suing them won't work. They would spend money, and provided they win, they can tell the devs to provide the keys they were paid for.
Which is something they should already be doing. Suing them doesn't change their options. Winning isn't the problem, making them do it is. They aren't doing it now, I doubt suing them will change a thing, and assuming I was right, their options would be to go back to suing them (and repeat what is already happening).
They can tell them to give people their keys, but nothing will make them care.
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I don't agree with you. Now I don't know the entire story, but from what madjoki posted, it seems like the dev supplied groupees with a bunch of invalid keys. While it is the dev's fault, Groupees is still required by law to deliver a fully functional key.
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If I remember correct, the keys worked, but afterwards, any unused keys were voided, most likely in an attempt by the devs to stop key trading after the bundle.
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Ah, I may have it incorrect then. However, my feelings on this issue are still the same. Ethically, I put no fault on Groupees, but legally, they must supply non-expiring keys. At least in the US.
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Problem is, where would they get them? The one company with them already voided the last lot, and are ignoring and threatening paying customers on their forums and through email.
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Whether or not Groupees can actually obtain the keys has nothing to do with their legal obligations.
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Well, Groupees could spend a pile of cash to take them to court.
It just will change absolutely nothing because the devs have no intention to honour the purchases at this point. Winning in court won't let Groupees force them to give the keys, just lets them go in circles telling them to do what should have already been done. And when that fails, back to court so they can repeat everything that would have already happened?
How are they supposed to make the devs care?
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I'm obviously not a lawyer, but if they fail to follow a court order, theoretically, there would be penalties. The keys are worth some monetary amount, so an equivalent amount would be seized from the dev.
What I can tell is that you're arguing from the heart. I don't disagree with your point of view, but that doesn't change the fact that groupees is legally obligated to give the correct, working, non-expiring keys.
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Like I already said, Groupees did give working keys. The devs voided them after the bundle. There are no keys they could get that the devs can't repeat that action with. Not to mention they can only get more keys through devs that have proven they don't care.
There should be penalties, but with too many smaller court cases, it just gives you the chance to say "The law itself is on my side". It doesn't give you powers over the law to make them comply. And when you consider what it was that forced it in the first place...
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It doesn't change the fact that Groupees is still legally responsible for providing a working key (or if Groupees wants they can provide refund and partial refund, again it's up to Groupees to choose). This means they are responsible for keys revoked by developer.
It's up to Groupees to negotiate with developers, because they are one who sold the product and not developer. Likewise developers signed contract with Groupees and they have legal obligation to provide working keys, and if they don't want to, Groupees should be suing them for damages. (As harsh as it sounds)
In no case, Groupees should be lefting their customers begging keys from developer. (Again developer has no direct obligations to the customer)
Likewise Steam is responsible for any copy they sold, but not any key from third party (eg. GMG, GamersGate) and it's up to Steam to work with developer and not you if there's a problem.
This combined with other facts, such as data loss (because who needs backups), that has caused unavailability of earlier bundles, despite paying, extra keys added, keys gone missing, no greenlight keys.
So why Groupees should earn our/my trust?
If this was single mistake, then it wouldn't be that bad, but Groupees seems to be making mistakes all over, again and again.
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As I said above, in a reply elsewhere (can't find it right now >.<)
The court can and will make the losing party comply. That can include the local police going into darkForge offices and seizing office equipment for sale in a debt collection auction to reimburse the winning party. Admittedly, this action does have to be initiated by the successful party and requires a decent amount of wait time for the loser to comply with the first court order. But overall, it's not easy to dodge a court order to pay. Maybe it works differently in New Zealand? I don't know.
madjoki's reply above mine is correct. The buyer entered a binding sales contract with Groupees, NOT the developer. darkForge games has no obligation to provide working keys directly to the buyers, but Groupees does.
The law is blind to the circumstances surrounding your non-compliance of the sales contract. It just asks "did you supply the exact items as advertised? Working, non-expiring keys?" This is a yes or no question, there are no buts.
Anyways, I think we can agree to disagree here. I don't really think there is anything we could say to each other that would change our minds :P
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The only thing I was really debating was that madjoki claimed "Groupees took money and is legally responsible for delivering" which they did, it just turned out that the keys were revoked by the developer afterwards.
It's a bad situation, I'm glad I'm not in it, I don't justify the actions of the developer, but I certainly don't put Groupees at fault. If I had to put blame on anyone other than the developer, it would be the consumer for not activating the game for whatever reason though. The bundles are meant for personal use, no reason you shouldn't be activating immediately unless "they were all for giveaways".
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for this particular bundle they were offering dollar days for previous buyers. So directly encouraging you to get extra copies, which is obvious you cannot activate yourself, as you got them all already in your 1st purchase. So they offer me a deal to get extra keys cheaply and I'm at fault for wanting to make GAs from these keys?
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I personally do not put Groupees at fault. The fact of the matter is, however, that we entered a contract with Groupees for them to supply a functional, non-expiring key for Nekro to us. Groupees is therefore at fault by law for not supplying the correct product. As I told Delta above, The law is blind to the circumstances surrounding your non-compliance of the sales contract. It just asks "did you supply the exact items as advertised? Working, non-expiring keys?" This is a yes or no question, there are no buts.
If I had to put blame on anyone other than the developer, it would be the consumer for not activating the game for whatever reason though. The bundles are meant for personal use, no reason you shouldn't be activating immediately unless "they were all for giveaways"
This is a completely ridiculous statement. I can see why you are defending groupees with such fervor, but placing blame on the consumer is so far out of left field, that I'm left a little flabbergasted.
I don't know about other people, but I used to like collecting up keys and then mass activating them. I don't do that anymore thanks to fiasco's like this. Doing giveaways is also a completely legitimate reason for not activating immediately.
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Who ever said keys have no expiration? We're obviously used to that and seem to always expect it, but that's not the case. There have been many bundles with expiring keys, rarely from Steam, but there have been none the less. You assumed they had no expiration, which was the wrong assumption.
I shouldn't need to clarify this, but since we're moving past discussing and onto childish name calling, perhaps it's best. madjoki said "Groupees took money and is legally responsible for delivering", all I was trying to say was they did deliver, so his complaint is invalid. How Groupees is responsible, when they have fulfilled his expectations is beyond me, but here we are still discussing it! (or just taking random jabs without adding anything productive to the discussion)
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In the US, you are required to state that the item will expire if you sell an item that expires. Therefore, assumption of non-expiration is correct and entirely reasonable. Groupees did not supply a non-expiring key, and they are still legally responsible for delivering.
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This is the way the world ends - not with a bang, but with a whimper.
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Thank you for honoring the Bundle in a Box 2 mistake. I actually bought that only because of the bonus games. I thought it was some Christmas gift or something and was disheartened when I learned it was just an error.
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Feel sorry for you guys have to deal with this before New Years Eve. Remember that better part of community is probably just silent and understanding so don't worry too much ;) Just slap guy that made mistake and then give him a hug or if its a girl just hug is ok (sexism ftw)
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OFC they will screw up again, Groupees site is known for its incompetence. They were pretty good bundle site a year or so ago, but in the last six months their bundles are mostly garbage. A greenlight bundle with heaps of games that will never see the light of Steam every two weeks? Not to mention the moronic "reserve" option.
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Ohhh so thats why I found all those keys in my groupees account. I thought I had missed them before as I had not checked my profile in a while. Well good thing I only gave them to friends or put it on my own account and not make a giveaway for them.
I'll have to warn my friends so they don't freak out.
Thank you for the heads up about this.
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Since you're going through the time and trouble to remove the BTA games that weren't supposed to be given, how about somebody with your site goes back over the errors and fixes the keys that went missing, that were legitimately paid for, in accounts before these errors?
I don't feel it is fair that I now would need to spend a bunch more time combing through the many bundles I've faithfully bought from your company, to find the keys that were mistakenly made to disappear.
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It might just be a bug, but quite a few old bundles have the second/bta tiers added to the first tier of the bundle, You can see an example of this bug in the current bundle in a box. Most of the past bundles are effected.
Only ones i see excluded are build-a-bundle types.
Check your own past bundles
Artaqifa (8 minutes ago*)
From one of the head people at Groupees
Jonny CappuccinoGroupees HQ21:06 keys wrongly issued will be revoked
Jonny CappuccinoGroupees HQ21:06 so games will disappear from Groupees profile and Steam as well
Concerning Bundle in a box 2:
Jonny CappuccinoGroupees HQ21:10
if you purchased when the bundle was advertised as a $1, you will get to keep the keys
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