Agreed!!In most browser based games like Ogame, Ikariam,etc... You can't do anything if you don't have a premium account and if you don't pay for bonuses then you're pretty much finished since you can't do anything against the ones who pay for it.
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Actually Doto 2 is one of those few games which isn't a pay-to-win and paying only grants you cosmetic items.
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I regularly engage in Defense of the Oldies, too, when pesky Kids These Days talk about their Katie Parries and Justine Beavers.
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Knight Online, it made most of the decent players quit and the rest was left alone with... scammers, cheaters, angry kids, babashoppers and.. turks,
I've got lot of beautiful memories though, only MMORPG I have ever played
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Knight Online is the only MMO i played too. But it was closed in the end. World of Tanks is pay-2-win.
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World of Tanks is P2W? Then I'm playing it wrong.
How exactly is that p2w? You can pay for premium, which gives you 1,5x exp and credits you normally would get. This means, you will get tanks half the time faster than non payers.
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Wait, what? I played it back when it was up with free-trials and was pretty sad a few years ago when I couldn't find it, but since when was it P2W?
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I remember crossfire, I prefered the ghost and infected modes since the normal modes were hard to win (no wonder).
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Yep. I played cf europe. Which at the start had many of the weapons from zgames cf available to buy with GP so it wasn't so bad. But then it became pretty bad too.
I loved the maps tho, i play CSGO now and i wish someone made the maps from cf to cs (even though that's stealing).
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Period. Pay to unlock faster cars, pay to get better tuning pieces, pay to get powerups, pay to get more xp, pay to get better rewards, pay to unlock everything that would otherwise require a lot of tedious grinding.
What a letdown, even without the pay to win features is still a mediocre game with too few game modes and an extremely slow levelling system.
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The game isn't p2w. SWTOR is still a sub mmo. The free version is just a trial like WoW has only they don't label it a trial.
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it's not much a pay to win, it's more a pay to play even if it's supposed to be a free to play, actually it's probably one of the worst Free to play i have ever played. It's best to invest at least one month in order to do the solo quest line rather than battling with all the stupid limitations this game has.
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problem is no one is giving a fine to swtor for fooling people thinking is f2p when 80% of the game is restricted u can only do quests have lower exp money gain and costs are 3x even 10x higher and u can only lvl till 50 not 55 unless u get sub for at least 1 month
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Why do you consider HearthStone P2W? Afaik Paying users and free users has access to the same cards, it only requires more time to aquire all of them for a free user - which is something normal in any F2P game - for example in LoL you won't have access to all heroes from the start but with time and patience you will eventually be able to farm them all. Same goes for HS cards.
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I actually never bought any pack or arena for money, started after game was out of beta, yet I already own all common and rare cards, over 50% of epics and 7 legendaries ;p and still have ~3k gold sitting around ;p
oh and also gonna get my 3rd gold portrait anytime soon ;p
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The problem is that it is PURELY based on luck. I started playing after the game was out of beta, yet couldn't get a SINGLE LEGENDARY so far, whilst my friends opened like 10 of them.. So yeah, this isn't a normal P2W case, but it can be labeled as one.
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well, but the thing is that a person paying real money for a cards pack and you paying gold for it has the same chance for a Legendary drop. Also it all depends on how you spend your gold. I for example decided to invest it all into arena and nowadays I'm basically having Arena runs for free (on average I earn more gold than I spend on entering) and all bonus card packs each run free as well. So if you just spend your all gold on buying packs and your friend just got good at arena runs - he will surely open loads more of packs than you so earn loads more of epic/legenary cards as well.
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yes, plus it encourages you to play different classes with not-so-standard cards against opponents using non-standard cards as well. There is no better way to learn cards and their synergy and thinking about opponent strategies than to play arena. Because in constructed most of the times you will be faced against people using standard known builds and even then not fully understanding strategies behind them. It's a short route to starting thinking in schematics and when you face a build that uses just few different cards than what you're used to you don't really know what to do.
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Like I said - I don't pay yet it doesn't suck for me. And like mentioned elsewhere in the topic - you still can scrape just fine deck - at least to farm gold for arenas / packs with basic cards only. And about Legendary tier rank play? Same thing will go to any other F2P game - you don't have a lot of heroes unlocked with money/influence in LoL? well good luck going to high tier match with just 5 random heroes to choose from.
P2W is when game gives unfair advantage for paying players - the one no free player can ever get. Like best free-avaiable weapon will deal 5 DMG but just pay X$ and you get this epic weapon that deal 7 dmg, or just 5.2 dmg - it is still advantage - every player in HS has access to all cards. So it's not P2W - it's at most P 2 Speed up your progress, which is done in a lot of other games, like mentioned LoL, as well.
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P2W is also when a player who doesn't pay plays for a month and another player comes and on his first day pays 20$ and has better cards (for example). pretty much all TCG's/CCG's are P2W but that doesn't mean they're bad games. i'm enjoying HEX immensely for example but i went in understanding that i'll probably spend a shitload of money on it (long time MTG fan here :) )
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erm - each HS player can earn 140-200 gold a day (depending on what daily quest you get, rewards vary from 40 to 100 gold, and you can get up to 100 gold from ranked matches). Pack values varies based on number you purchase, but Arena matches are always the same, so it's easier to calculate value based on Arena match price. Each arena run costs 150g/2$. Each is guaranteed to get you at least 1 card pack (worth 100g) and some gold/dust. If you win 3 matches you will probably get your whole investment back, if you win 5 you are sure that you will earn more than you spend, and if you win 7+ you are 100% sure you will earn more gold than a new arena run, making it a free cards pack, free arena run + bonus gold. Not to mention the fact that each new player who decides to actually play and not pay up front can do a bunch of basic quests (I do not count quests that require you to have certain cards) earning him a total of 2 card packs, 1100 gold, 95 arcane dust, Free Arena Run (at least 1 card pack and some dust, possible free pack, next arena run and bunch of bonus gold). Making these quests he will also earn at least gold for 2-3 Arena Runs. It means 10-13 Arena runs that will AT LEAST give a player 10-13 card packs, + 2 free card packs and a bunch of dust. So it's at least 12-15 card packs + bunch of dust. Not to mention gold earning. Your mentioned new player paying 20$ up front will be able to either run 10 Arena Runs (giving him at least 10 card packs) or buy 15 card packs directly without any bonus gold or dust whatsoever. so basically in any situation he will be still behind the free player who just played the quests, not to mention he will still has to farm for basic cards as he won't be able to buy these anyway. And also not to mention that 1st player will have much more experience and card knowledge. And will simply whoop his ass.
Also all the calculations are based on a fact that someone will countinuously such at the Arena. Like I mentioned - even without paying a penny I still have a lot of great milestones in HS reached (Legendary rank hopefully coming soon), at average I earn more at the Arena than I spend on it. So I get cards + free gold without spending anything, while you just say that "yeah, but you could buy it with money as well!". Yes you could but you don't have to, you can easily earn enough on Arena to not to buy anything at all. So for me it's far far away from Pay 2 Win.
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Um, LoL can be seen as P2W. Some heroes are hard counter to others, and free player just won't have access to anything but handful free ones. If you have good counters to these, good luck losing to F2Ps.
Also, skins - they pretty much totally change the hero. If free player is only familiar with basic version of that hero (if he is familiar at all, that is, seeing hero might be locked) he will have no idea what the hero is doing and what skills is he using for half of match. Is that light blue ray space suit skin is using red stun arrow or yellow slow bullet normal version has? Doubts can make you lose crucial teamfight, in DotA 2 even arcanes don't obscure hero abilities that much and besides, in doubt you can always select the hero and hover mouse above his skills. The worst DotA 2 offender I can think of changes flying ghosts to butterflies on a hero that has single magical attack so it's obvious what she is doing anyway.
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I wouldn't consider LoL P2W simply because everything that paying players can buy, barring cosmetics, free players can get within a reasonable amount of time.
In regards to skins, honestly, I think you're stretching it a bit there. Of course a new player is going to be caught off guard by something he hasn't seen before. Hell, an experienced player will get caught off guard by it since, you know, haven't seen it before.
None of the skins radically change any champion to the point of being unrecognizable. Sure, they may change the look of some attacks, but it'll still be very obviously the same attack. If you know Morganna's abilities, then you'll know her abilities even as Ghost Bride Morganna. If you know Ezreal's Abilities, then you'll still know Pulsefire Ezreal's abilites.
Off the top of my head, the only time I can think of a skin giving an unfair advantage was the... I forget the name but a Syndra skin that changed the color of her balls(hurr hurr) to be too faint. That was changed not too long after the skin was released though.
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Any free player may unock any Hero afair. And about skin - it's totally invalid argument, sporry. You don't have to pay for a skin to know how it looks. You can see it on screenshots, videos etc. What you're talking about is not P2W but lack of experience. You say that free player never seen this skin so he has disadvantage? Well - same disadvantage will apply to a player that bought shitload of heroes that will see this skin for the first time. The same goes if you're totally new and you encounter some hero you don't know for the first time. Your disadvantage doesn't come from the fact that someone paid with money or their time to get that skin / hero - it comes from your lack of experience. Because if you were more experienced and encountered it before it wouldn't matter or change anything no matter what hero/skin opponent would be using.
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Hear hear.
Like most F2P games LoL has a P2A (pay to accelerate) option. Spend money, buy champs and xp boost, reach top level faster and with more champs in your pool. But as stated before, all this won't make you a better player and can be reached without paying a dime. It'll just take longer.
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I would have to disagree on that. If you buy any item then your rank goes up so you're forced to play with either people who also bought stuff or people who are just really good. I'm colonel 2 and there are still a lot of people playing with the default guns and still kicking ass. You still have to have skill if you're going to get better armor or guns.
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Honestly Combat Arms. Game is so brokenly P2W. When I used to play it the best 2 guns in the game was a g36 and an m4 with a holo sight forgot the name. The m4 had no recoil and the g36 had an insane recoil, but if you tap shot people you could 1 hit HS them from the other side of the map thanks to the scope it had.
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OP, I'm currently playing SF game and I don't think it's pay to win at all. Sure, shroomers get to the top quickly, but become inactive sooner or later and by that time, you're kicking their asses in the arena :)
It does help to buy a few shrooms every now and again, but I wouldn't call it "the most Pay-to-Win game" ;)
Anyway, I've played this MMO called Chrono Tales for a bit, and holy hell that was Pay-to-win at its finest.
Also a browser based game called Wartune. They barely let you talk in the chat unless you bought a bunch of megaphones O.o
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Hmm, that might be true, if you look at it like this.
Luckily, SFgame isn't a game where being on top of the rankings will grant you any sweet bonuses (aside from those that come with levels, like dungeons) :) A non-shroomer can have all a paying player has, just not as fast :)
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AFAIK, the true P2W game I know is... Hearthstone. I've played plenty of games, during the past 7 years of dedicated gaming."Why?", you ask? Simple: There's the thing about buying card packs that make it horrendous to win, untill youplay a few hundred hours of it. This is due to the fact that most people dislike a challenge and prefer a good, "fair" fight with the people whom are on hearthstone atm. Sure, you can use the cards that are given to you via +exp and completing quests, but once you're done, welp, no cards till the next day.
Another example of said format of gaming is Spiral Knights. I've spent 116 hours on it and I've yet to get the max tier of armour. I could've reduced the time spent on playing by half if I had bought a few hundred of the in-game currency, being able to delve deeper and getting more cash, getting better recipes. Basically, you get more money in-game by spending more money irl. The steep is far greater than the lack of outer-gamely intereference.
Hence, my most P2W games are Hearthstone, Spiral knights and... TF2! (Not gonna delve into that but the only way to win in TF2 is getting every single hat+unsual combo)
On another note, I'm counting P2W as in games that include Huge shortcuts via irl-money, not unbalanced games that I've spent as much time playing it as I have downloaded it, and the eventual un-install.
Edit: Aaaand this is why I never post on forums
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P2W means unfair advantage to paying players, aka free player cannot ever earn - there is no such thing in HearthStone. It's Pay 2 Get thingies faster (same as for example LOL - you won't have all characters avaiable right from the start) but both free and paying players can eventually unlock everything in game. It doesn't matter if you buy cards pack with gold or Real Money - you will always have the same chance for drops. It doesn't matter if you buy Arena access with gold or RM - you will have same cards avaiable. So there is no actual P2W element - it only requires bigger amount of time to unlock everything with free model.
Heck, I'm playing HS only from release (weren't able to play in beta due to lack of internet), I've never purchase any card pack, Arena Run or Naxx wing with real money, yet I've got all common and rare cards unlocked already, 50%+ of epics unlocked, 7 Legendaries, sitting on 3k+ gold saved, with 1 lvl 60 class, 2 gold portraits unlocked, 3rd one coming in 80 wins, record Arena run of 12-1, all Naxx cleared so far including Heroic and record Rank of Rank 3. All this without paying a penny. And I'm probably kicking a lot of buts of ppl who sometime somewhwere bought something in game with real money. So really - where's a Pay2Win in this? o.O
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like in any grinding game, even if it has no in-game shop at all. Person who is playing for the first day will usually be on disadvantage in any such a game. Not only HS (not to mention that HS require experience as well - to know what cards opponent may use based on his deck you've seen so far and thinking of ways to counter it), but even in freaking COD or COD even if you bought a game - in MP you will need to "Pay with your Life" to farm new weapons, upgrades and level up to be on the same level with people who invested more time than you into it.
And generally it will apply to any game - if you just jump in as a new player, without any experience, you will always be inferior to players who played it a lot, be it in unlockables or in experience. Heck even if you invested thousands of dollars right at the start just for all unlockables avaiable, you would still suck, because you wouldn't know what to do with them and would be simply outsmarted by more experienced players.
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Ahh, the infamous, guaranteed, 2-steps to start an internet argument.
Post an opinion
Wait...
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Spiral Knights has one of the fairest economic model for a F2P MMO. It's the anti-thesis of P2W game, until you reach end game where maxing out your gears required quite some grind, but nothing worse than your average MMO end game. Spiral Knights has its issues, but P2W model isn't one of them.
I think the confusion is because your definition of P2W is erroneous. P2W means the only way to win in the game is to pay, either because it's impossible to stay competitive otherwise, or because some goals (other than OCD-driven collections) can't be achieved in a realistic time frame. Paying for cosmetic items like hats aren't P2W because they don't influence the gameplay in anyway. Shortcuts, if their effects disappears in the middle run like XP boosts, aren't P2W either because they're negligible in the long run.
What qualifies as P2W is, for instance:
-Exclusive non-cosmetic items.
-Limited gameplay, such as slowly refilling energy bars, which create gaps between players over time.
-Technically fully free game, but getting some vital resources without paying would require insane amount of time and effort.
...
I never played HS so I can't tell for it, but SK is pretty chill concerning its "paid" IG currency, you can buy it with free currency directly from the game at a decent rate (1h of end game getting you more than $1 worth of resources). TF2 has a drop system which also disqualify him as a P2W.
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I'm talking about pre-overhaul Spiral Knights. This time, Spiral Knights took a turn for the better.
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Final Fantasy: All The Bravest for mobiles. Well, if you'd consider that a game.
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I think it was called Astro Battle. It was fun when playing a bunch of free players, but as soon as someone came into the game with premium stuff, everyone else gets completely dominated.
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One of the games from Aeria. Couldn't say which.. They're all equally as pay 2 win. Because that's how Aeria Games was made for.
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In my opinion hearthstone,sfgame,APB reloaded.What do you think?
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