I think Star Wars is one of those films best experienced on a giant movie screen, I hardly ever go to the movies because I don't think there are many that are worth the price involved.
This one, despite its faults, was deserving of the theater trip and experience:)
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, everything relevant that happens in the movie can be summed up by "Kylo Ren (Ben Solo) kills Han Solo". Nothing else really happens. I was sad to see my favorite character killed off. Although, I think Adam Driver was the best of the newcomers. The others weren't bad, but I wasn't really attached to them since I just saw them for the first time. And I found it odd that they were all suddenly best friends after having known each other for a few minutes. I think they all lack the personalities needed to carry the future movies. Hopefully we will see more Luke in the next movie, though. Leia was damn boring tbh :s
Comment has been collapsed.
I've seen the movie a couple of days ago (for once we were lucky in Italy) so:
I've actually enjoyed the whole movie, it was quite good and fun. I'm an old time fan of the saga, I'm watching it since I was a kid (5 years or so, now I'm 28) and I found this better then the prequel trilogy.
The only 2 downsides IMHO are:
- Rei and the Force: ok, there is probably going to be a good explanation about this, but I didn't like the fact that she is so powerful right from the start when at the beginning of the movie she didn't even know the force and the Jedi really existed.
- Kylo Ren: I was waiting for a big villain but, as of now, I found the actor not fitting the role properly. Maybe it's the face itself or just his part, but I wasn't happy with him.
However I liked the whole movie so I can't wait for episode VIII (and Anthology: Rogue One).
Comment has been collapsed.
I believe Rey will be related to one of the original trilogy Jedis somehow, so that explains why she was abandoned.
And about Kylo Ren well he is such a loser, i didn't like the charecter neither his attitude, even a sith know how to control himself...
Comment has been collapsed.
He is not a Sith. I don't think remembering once listening to that word in the whole movie...
Comment has been collapsed.
Wow, I totally agree with you, except that I would have like a more heroic death from Han though :/ (as Harrison Ford always wanted)
Comment has been collapsed.
Rei and the Force: ok, there is probably going to be a good explanation about this, but I didn't like the fact that she is so powerful right from the start when at the beginning of the movie she didn't even know the force and the Jedi really existed.
I think it's heavily implied that Rey is Luke's daughter. My theory is that she has been trained in the Force as a young child before Luke abandoned her, and the trauma of the incident has pushed any memory of her childhood into her subconscious. The events around her and proximity to Kylo Ren using the force on her awakens her latent training and abilities. IE; the force awakens.
Kylo Ren: I was waiting for a big villain but, as of now, I found the actor not fitting the role properly. Maybe it's the face itself or just his part, but I wasn't happy with him.
I believe they intentionally nerfed Kylo Ren's power and attitude because they want him to have an interesting development arc in the following movies. He is a very interesting character -- extremely afraid, weak, unable to control his anger, still holds some remnants of the good inside him, has a crackly potato lightsaber -- we will get to see his transformation into either the ultimate evil badass / converted into a tragic hero / or some mixture of the two by the end of episode 9. In The Force Awakens, Kylo Ren is sort of like Luke was in A New Hope -- young, whiny, raw and unpolished... "but I was going to go into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters..."
Comment has been collapsed.
I completely agree with you. Thats why nothing of that bothered me, people don't get it but Kylo Ren's actor did a good job portraying what he had to portray!
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's heavily implied that Rey is Luke's daughter.
is it? I never thought about that, I guess there were some symbolic moments that would suggest it... but if that's the case, neither Han Solo or Leia seem to show any recognition of her (not that they necessarily need to know who she is, but I find it unlikely). It's possible that they are just hiding the fact they know who she is, don't recognize her, etc., but if anything like this was the case, I'd be rather upset since it's weak. Also it's quite the strike of fate that out of all the people in the galaxy Luke's daughter would so randomly get caught up in events, but I guess I should expect an overindulgence of fate in a Star Wars movie. I also don't see Luke, who tried desperately to win his father back to the light side of the force, who risked his life to save his good friend Han Solo, etc. etc., would just abandon his daughter.
I just did a quick search and it has been suggested that Rey could also be the granddaughter of Obi-Wan I find this to be a much more fitting alternative and it solves most of the problems I have with the above (besides the Fate thing, but again, that's to be expected)
If your theory is right I also found this article, which does a pretty good job at trying to explain the Han/Leia problem I have with Rey being a Skywalker. At any rate, her being someone's descendant does solve one of my biggest problems with the movie, and that's how at the very end they send Rey to find Luke at all. If she was just some random person, why would the Resistance send a girl they don't know to find Luke when it's been their secret mission, it pissed me off that they didn't qualify her for doing so with a short scene, but I guess if she's to be someone's daughter then it makes a lot of sense to NOT put that scene in.
Comment has been collapsed.
I watched it last night and here are my thoughts:
There were parts that I liked which are the cameos. However, felt the soundtrack was lacking as most of the music by John Williams was mostly from the older Star Wars movies.
Kylo Ren is great in the beginning and shows that he is a true Sith. When he kills Han, which was predictable, I would have liked Han with a more heroric death rather than being killed by his own son.
Rey and Finn were good characters, their characters fit into the Star Wars Universe and they do not seem out of place. I'm glad that Finn wasn't the true wielder of Luke's lightsaber.
I would have liked if Rey didn't use her mind powers when she tried to escape because she made it too simple.
Overall, it was a decent movie and MUCH better than the prequels!
Comment has been collapsed.
Regarding the music, I'm not sure why you think it's a weak point. The music is one of my favorite parts of the original trilogy. I can visualize the entire movie in my head as I'm listening to it. This is largely due to there being themes for different characters. Throughout the original trilogy, John Williams does variations on a character's theme whenever they are on screen having a moment.
- Luke's Theme is the Main Title theme
- The Force Theme - My favorite use of it is during Binary Sunset, might even be the first time we hear the theme.
- Han & Leia Love Theme
- Leia's Theme
- Rebel Fanfare
- Emperor's Theme
- Of course we all know The Imperial March, but that theme was introduced in Episode V. Did you know there was actually a Darth Vader/Imperial theme in A New Hope? Here's an example of it
There are more themes than these, Yoda, the droids, Jabba, Ewoks, etc.
The entire score is built around variations on the different established themes.
So, in the new movie, though I couldn't entirely focus on the music, I felt like the previously established themes were used appropriately. I distinctly remember hearing The Love Theme when Han and Leia were reunited, and then I believe Leia's theme when she's hugging Rey after they return without Han (though it might have been the love theme again). Very sad. The Force theme was used when the force was being used.
I'd need several more watches and a copy of the soundtrack, but the scoring felt pretty consistent with the original trilogy, using specific themes for different characters and events. I'm sure the same was done in the prequels, but I don't know them as well as I do the original trilogy.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just listening to Samples from the new soundtrack, some notes. Again, all I'm hearing is the 30 second samples.
- Main Theme - obviously the same
- Rey - has a theme, I'm sure it's sprinkles throughout the movie like other characters
- The Falcon - sounds like classic Star Wars music with the trumpet fanfares, but those are all new melodies I've never heard.
- The Rathtars! - sample has the Main Theme at the end
- Kylo Ren Arrives at the Battle - appears to have his theme at the last 10 seconds of the sample
- The Abduction - played Kylo's theme again, halfway through
- Han and Leia - has Han and Leia's theme, appropriately, it actually moves into Leia's theme at the very end
- Snoke's theme - seems to be reminiscent of the Emperor's theme, with the deep, chanting music
- On the Inside - you hear Kylo's theme again
- The Ways of the Force - More variations on Kylo
- Scherzo for X-Wings - has new variations on the Main Theme
- Farewell and The Trip - sounds like Rey's theme moving into the Force Theme, but I haven't heard all of Rey's theme yet to know for sure
So it seems like the new movie established a few new themes and used them throughout the movie. There's always going to be fanfares of the Main Theme and The Force theme whenever the heroes are being.... heroic.
Comment has been collapsed.
The new leitmotifs didn't quite grab me as strongly as in the original trilogy or even quite as memorably as some of the use of themes used in the prequels -- despite having a low opinion of the prequels as a whole, I did find some of the leitmotifs to be beautifully done and very memorable.
Of course, it might just take some time and further viewings to become as accustomed and familiar with the new themes as we are with the older ones, but my first impression is that John William's scoring for Episode VII ended up being a little less operatic/Wagneresque and a little more influenced by Classical-period works as opposed to Romantic-period works.
Comment has been collapsed.
I haven't seen the movie and I'm not running away! Come at me, bruh. Mostly I just want to decide whether I should be excited for Ep VII and spoilers don't bother me Shame about Han but I figured they'd kill off at least one aging actor's character
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh hey there Oni, nice to see you here. I thought the film was very much worth the theatre experience despite its flaws. I'd recommend seeing it if not at a first run theatre then at a discount screen (if you have any near you) because I think you will regret waiting to watch it on blu-ray/dvd.
Comment has been collapsed.
Funny that you should reply just as I'm reading this thread. Stop reading my mind/spying on me prz :(
The theatre experience is something I hadn't considered. I was too young to see the OT in theatres and after being pretty disappointed in Ep 1 I didn't bother seeing 2 & 3 on the big screen.
I'm interested to see which of the fan theories prove to be true. Snoke being Plagueis, which seems almost definite now, is the revelation I'm most looking forward to since I've always been more of a dark side fan.
Comment has been collapsed.
I get you, I was too young unfortunately as well, but I did see the Special Editions in theatres and those stay with me (even if Han DID shoot first, dammit George) long past the pathetic prequels. I saw EP 1 and 2 in the theatre but not 3, by then I couldn't care less. Ironically that was the one I enjoyed the most when I watched it a couple years later.
Snoke being Plagueis is interesting, even though I never read the EU stuff regarding any of the prequels so I have little knowledge of him, except that he was studying immortality.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh yeah. I did see the SEs in theatres. Forgot all about that.
It might be time to marathon the films in Hatchet order and then set up a man-date with a friend who has yet to see it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Sounds like this movie follows the leaked plot from late this summer. Sounds like there is enough left out of that leak to still make it a very worthwhile watch. Disappointed by the lack of originality (this is just A New Hope rehashed) but whatever.
Comment has been collapsed.
The movie was fantastic! I love how they had some throwbacks to the OT but still made it new and current. Kylo Ren being shown as unstable and how he acted in the movie fit perfectly and made for an interesting villain. Rey and Finn both being orphans and growing up lonely made it for a great moment when they end up trusting each other ; especially on Starkiller base when Finn comes back for Rey. Also the final fight it actually made sense ; fighting to kill unlike the prequels every hit was raw and not like a dance. How the lightsabers affected the environment was also top notch and the music when Rey wields the lightsaber gave me chills. Overall the movie was amazing and I will be watching it again in theatres soon.
Comment has been collapsed.
After watching the movie, my impression are:
Overall the movie is quite good it actually reminds me to " A new Hope", in my opinion the worst part of the movie, is Kylo Ren, he is supossed to have recieved Jedi training, and afterall Finn is able to damage him.
Now i'll like to explain my theory about the new jedi:
I think Rey, is somehow linked to Skywalker family, or another powerful Jedi, as Obi wan, altough Jedis cannot have children they could have missbehavied, or have cousins (Kylo Ren). There's no other way to explain the power of Rey coming from nowhere and without having recieved any kind of training.
And now I want to ask a doubt
When Rey defeats Kylo, did she cut off his leg? Or where just my impressions?
Comment has been collapsed.
I enjoyed the movie and I think it will be a nice trilogy, however there is some points that was bad in my opinion.
Rey just learned too much fast the jedi powers, luke took a long time and training to obtain his powers and knowledge about the force, but how Rey knew how to control minds without even knowing or seeing any jedi doing it ? it's just unexplained how she does that so fast. Also without any training with lightsaber how can she almost beat Kylo Ren, who is obviously more trained thar her ? things just happened too fast there.
Kylo Ren was fine, I mean it's obvious that we can't compare him to Darth Vader yet. Vader was an adult character while Kylo is still young and rebel. So I believe they can develop this character to be good in the future, the problem is that he's trying and inspiring too much on Vader which doesn't make him original, so i have small fear on that point.
The new Sith Lord argh... hmmm too much Marvel / DC comics , why he's big and a weird alien ? idk didn't like him much.
Overall was a nice movie and will ressurect the franchise.
Comment has been collapsed.
I total agree with you other than that it was a lot too much like a A New Hope rehashed as Storminator16 did write.
And since when Luke is such a coward and hides for such a long time?
Comment has been collapsed.
Well .... so far all the jedis escaped from the troubles in the galaxy. Yoda and Obi-Wan, so yea they are all cowards when something come up lol
Comment has been collapsed.
Obi-wan wasn't in hiding, he was guarding over Luke Skywalker because he represented their best hope for the Force. He'd also been a courageous general and Jedi Knight/Master during the Clone Wars:).
Yoda was just old, lol. Seriously though, he went off to live in seclusion rather than be killed, in hopes that perhaps someday somehow someone would seek him out for training.
Comment has been collapsed.
As a stand alone movie, it was pretty good.
As part of the Star Wars saga, it was a complete rehash of A New Hope. Exact same movie with different and newer characters. From the powerful force sensitive teen left on a remote desert planet so they can be hidden from the dark side, to joining the rebellion because of circumstances caused by trying to escape the Empire / First Order, to running into Han Solo to aid on the escape from the evil government, to hiding out in a cantina with similar music and musicians and strange looking aliens as in Episode IV, to trash compactors on the enemy ship, to a death star which destroys planets and has the exact same point of failure as the previous 2 death stars. Heck, they flew into trenches again with tie fighters chasing them to get to that point of failure.
The only thing missing was the "i love you", "i know" dialogue which they desperately needed to have knowing what happens. And yes, I know that dialogue was first made in Episode V but with so much being familiar, they could have added this part.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, they did borrow heavily from both IV & V in putting together VII. I think they felt this was the safest approach -- to sort of semi-reboot the series in a way that is familiar yet new. My feeling is that they felt they needed to do this to gain a foothold and make sure the new movie and relaunch did not fail -- by making it familiar and somewhat an homage to the original trilogy, they guarantee that people won't hate it (though they may not immediately love it since it is so similar. It also ties the series much closer to the original trilogy and distances it from the prequels.
The framework is now laid with a decent first entry, I think they are in a good spot to put out a dynamite episode 8 & 9 and I'm excited at the possibility that they will build upon the groundwork laid in 7 similarly to how The Empire Strikes Back expanded upon on A New Hope.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, I guess I was under the impression it was a continuation of the saga following the events of Return of the Jedi as opposed to a reboot of the franchise. I didn't read very many articles or pay much attention to it prior to it being released.
I personally feel they did a disservice to the fans by rebooting it instead of making it is own movie. But it's making a killing at the box office so what do I know. I just hope the next movie isn't called The First Order Strikes Back, and it is revealed when Kylo confides in Rey that he is her brother and their family hid it from each other, and definitely please don't end it with someone frozen in carbonite :). They won't get my $12 for that movie.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just hope the next movie isn't called The First Order Strikes Back
You and me both! I'm willing to sit through a reasonably well-done semi-reboot to get the series back on its feet, commercially and publicly viable, and put the prequels behind us -- but the next movies now have my full expectation to be their own things and extraordinary new, creative entries into the Star Wars legacy.
Comment has been collapsed.
Plot twist:Han returns as a cloned version of his much younger self!It happened in the Dark Empire comics with the Emperor, and that wasn't even the worst thing about those books.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm assuming here that since this thread is already titled with spoilers, I'm not going to use spoiler tags.
IF YOU ARE IN THIS THREAD, YOU SHOULD HAVE ALREADY SEEN THE MOVIE.
FINAL WARNING!!!
So I thought the movie was definitely a worthy addition to the Star Wars legacy, but it wasn't a masterpiece on first impressions. It's certainly a lot better than any of the prequels, but kind of hard to compare against the original trilogy due to different cinematic periods as well as the affects of nostalgia. For the most part I felt The Force Awakens came together quite well, and I think it was very clever how they introduced the next generation of the Skywalker lineage. Cinematically there were some parts that were composed beautifully and it was a decent modern-cinema transition for Star Wars -- but I wish there might have been a few more scenes like the glassy interior of the New Order Star Destroyers, the wide view of the crashed Destroyer on Jakku -- those shots were beautiful.
The Han and Leia scenes lacked a certain something. I felt some of the writing could have been improved in their interactions to better convey what they've been through -- or maybe something about their chemistry/directing was a little off. I can't really put my finger on it, but those scenes left me a little disappointed.
The other major scene I think could have used some reworking was Han's death. As a plot point, I think it works brilliantly that Kylo Ren must face his father to complete his journey to the Dark Side -- it is the doppleganger to Luke's plight to become a Jedi in the original trilogy. It makes Kylo Ren / Ben "Obi-Wan" Solo an incredibly interesting and complex character. HOWEVER... there was something about the way in which it was done that didn't make the scene as impactful as I think it could have been. For one, it was too predictable that Han was going to die in the setup of the scene, which lessened the shock of the moment when Ren's lightsaber pierces Han's chest. The other is that the emotional impact seemed like it could have been intensified with a recut of the final moments of the scene -- I feel that Han touching Ben's face in his last moments was good on paper, but the way it was shot/edited didn't convey that perfect mix of shock/betrayal + father/son unconditional love... it should be THE climactic and most endearing scene of the movie, but it just didn't quite pull it off.
The one scene that WAS incredibly effective was when Kylo Ren defeats Finn and is attempting to gain control of the Skywalker lightsaber, only to have it fly past him and into the hands of the true heiress. AWESOME. Maybe they could have lingered just a slight beat longer on the long shot when they are staring eachother down, red vs blue in anticipation of the clash to come.
I think Rey, is somehow linked to Skywalker family, or another powerful Jedi, as Obi wan, altough Jedis cannot have children they could have missbehavied, or have cousins (Kylo Ren). There's no other way to explain the power of Rey coming from nowhere and without having recieved any kind of training.
I think it's pretty heavily implied, though not outright stated, that Rey is Luke's daughter. My theory is that she has been trained in the ways of the force while she was a toddler/very young child, but does not remember due to the trauma of Luke abandoning her. The events around her and proximity with the force reawaken her latent training and abilities, and thus she is able to draw on her subconscious experiences as a young child to do things she has heard are rumored to be possible by Jedi like Jedi mind tricks and telepathic lightsaber grabs.
When Rey defeats Kylo, did she cut off his leg? Or where just my impressions?
She seemed to definitely have cut off his left hand, just like Vader & Luke lost their hands. I'm not sure about his leg, I think it was just slashed and not severed.
Comment has been collapsed.
I will be copypasting this from my recent post on reddit in reply to a person who was angry that r2d2 "suddenly" woke up for no reason
I think that it was luke who woke R2 up remotely after sensing the disturbances in the force and also Han's death. When Han dies, you can see Leia sighing painfully the same way Yoda did when he sensed similar things. Luke likely sensed the same feeling, and decided to wake R2 up to finally allow them to follow his trail and find him.
Comment has been collapsed.
There's only 1 thing that pissed me off.
WHY THE F DID HAN HAVE TO DIE?!?!?!
Comment has been collapsed.
I've read and heard from others that it was his wish and he didn't want to be in the future movies.
Plus it kind of fit the story on that the son felt like he had to do that to aid in his desperation to complete his journey to be Sith as opposed to still having Jedi thoughts and feelings in him.
Besides, it makes for a more poignant moment in Episode IX when he will inevitably come back around to the light side of the force once the dark side is defeated once again by one of its own.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, Harrison Ford wanted Han to be killed off as far back as Return of the Jedi, he thought it would add gravity to the film. Luckily Lucas and Co disagreed so we got a bunch of great Expanded Universe books with Han Solo and Leia Organa-Solo in them. Except they're not canon because fuck you Disney.I may be in the minority but as much fun as TFA was, I'd still rather see films based on the Heir to the Empire trilogy.
Comment has been collapsed.
I never understood why Harrison has such disdain for the character that gave him everything he has and more. Without Han Solo, Harrison is still a carpenter making thousands instead of millions and living a pampered life. Maybe at the time he didn't see how good Han would be for him but he still hates it to this day. Dude made like $25 million plus royalties for this new film and a million dollar bonus for breaking his leg during shooting. It's ridiculous how anti Han Solo he is.
Anyways, after seeing Episode VII A New Hope, Star Wars is dead to me. It was entertaining but the franchise is only a cash grab anymore, much like Harrison coming back to it. Fans will still throw their dollars at it because it is Star Wars in name only and that means something to a whole lot of people but the franchise died with that second death star over Endor.
The expanded universe books were great, especially all the Zahn ones, and those have been the only things keeping my interest in that galaxy far far away but it's time to cut the cord for me. The EU is dead, Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawn, Noghri, Talon Karrde, Jaina, Jacen, Anakin (that storytelling when he became one with the force and fought off wave after wave of the enemy before succumbing and the ripple effect characterized with all the characters was amazing writing and something we will never see on a movie screen), Ben, Yuzong Vong, et al never were a part of that world. And unoriginality is the way off the force now. Tis a damn shame.
Comment has been collapsed.
Quote from interview with Harrison Ford " It was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away… I thought the best utility of the character would be for him to sacrifice himself to a high ideal and give a little bottom, a little gravitas to the enterprise, not that there wasn’t some already but I just wanted in on some part of it. That was at the third occasion of filming the original three."
I've heard many times over the years that Ford wanted Solo to die, but it wasn't because he hated the character. He has a point, from a storytelling perspective. After all, he certainly didn't foresee the EU and wouldn't have cared, as an artist and actor he was thinking of what it would mean to the body of work. I can respect that.
Comment has been collapsed.
I would understand wanting to die from a storytelling perspective if the story didn't keep changing...or at least the reports of his story. I've read at various times he wanted to die by carbonite and let that be his farewell. Also, he wanted Han to die in Jedi. And then he didn't even want to do this new one but if he had to, this would be it and he'd die once and for all. So they had to write the story around how and why Han died. That story makes sense in this one, I'll give them that but it was mainly in part because the actor did not want to play the character anymore and not much to do with the natural flow of the story.
I'm pretty sure the EU had nothing to do at any of those movies for him wanting the character to die so that would have no bearing on it. Agree on that point.
Also, "hate" is a strong word and I shouldn't have used that in my prior post.
We'll never know the true story of why he wanted the character to die or why he didn't like the character as reports have been all over the place over the years but my opinion is he had something against this character for him to want to kill him off during the original trilogy and again now. Only difference is this time the powers that be acquiesced to his desire. He's my favorite character too in the movies but these stories going all the way back to Empire tarnish it a bit for me.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think Han dying in this film gave it a gravitas it would otherwise have lacked. Otherwise it's just glorious, wonderful, fanservice imho. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it at least let us know the stakes were higher. Sure, the Empire First Order destroyed planets with presumably billions of people but, much like Alderaan, the audience didn't really feel the impact. With the death of arguably the most popular good character in all of Star Wars, the mythos is irrevocably changed.
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't you still think it pretty much a glorious fan service movie? I mean, there was not one single original idea put into it. Even the scene where Han dies is very similar to Obi-Wan dying....the surroundings, the people looking on, the guy in the black helmet doing the killing etc.
As I said earlier, as a first introduction to Star Wars, it can stand on its own. As part 7 of a 9 episode (or more) saga, been there seen that and is not even close to being as good as episode 4. The more time that passes from when I saw it, the more disappointed I become in that they sold us snake oil because "Star Wars!!!!".
It was still going to make a killing at the box office no matter what. And from what I gather, a lot of people mainly like it because "hey, it wasn't episode 1" or "thank god there was no jar jar like character". I can't believe everyone involved gave a green light to making the exact same movie we've all seen before and played it so incredibly safe. Its clearly obvious not everyone feels this way but I personally am extremely disappointed. Seriously, how hard was it to come up with just one original thought for this movie?
Comment has been collapsed.
I stand with you on that.. They took no risk at all and brought absolutely nothing original.
Even the spaceships.. they used X-Wings and Tie-Fighters (Ho they colored some.. wow). No A-Wing, No Y-Wing (which would be the obvious choice for a bombing run) and no other new vessels. I have a book of blueprints full of original concepts from the original trilogy and there is a lot of amazing stuff in there, the only new thing I noticed is Kylo Ren's ship which is way too friggin basic with it's two flapping wings, not impressive at all.
One Scene for me resume the whole movie.. when they compare the Death Star to the now Planet-Size Solar Ray Destroyer.. put this new movie side to side with Episode IV and in the end this one is just newer, bigger and shinier.. but it's the exact same plot from A to Z.
Yes it's a big Eye-Candy and it's some new Star Wars Material, but it's way too much a copy-paste of the Original Movie. I'm guessing their reasoning is the younger audience that will follow the upcoming movies won't notice coz they might not be aware of what Episode 4 really was, but I'm 40 and grew up with the original trilogy, saw each of them dozens of times. This is just unoriginal crap to milk in loads of cash and repay their 4 billion investment.
Comment has been collapsed.
"No Y-Wing (which would be the obvious choice for a bombing run) " I hate to quibble with someone I agree with but Y-wings were considered obsolete by the time of A New Hope so it's more likely the "Resistance" would be using B-wings instead.
Overall I'd still rather have this than the prequels, but I'd also rather have a trilogy based on some of the EU novels.
Comment has been collapsed.
I lost interest in most things Star Wars around 2004 (and I had been the VP of my college's SW fan club during the prequel trilogy releases, so that should signify something) and especially when fucking Disney decided the EU wasn't canon. I'd rather have had a Heir to the Empire trilogy or some of the x-wing novels or even Jedi Academy trilogy made into a film series but that's not happening now.
Most people have only ever seen the original trilogy and maybe the prequels and declare themselves "Star Wars fanatics." I played the games, the rpgs(tabletop I'm talking about) wrote fanfic, collected the toys, etc. I think my fandom is definitely deeper than most people's and so my perspective is bound to be different.
With that all said, I don't think it's a bad thing for them to have played it safe. Better that than an insipid and potentially devastating film that introduced questionable new elements to the SW universe coughmidicloranscough and it now means they can maybe move into uncharted territory with episodes 8 and 9.
Comment has been collapsed.
Harrison Ford hates Han Solo character :(. He wanted him to die heroically in the Return of the Jedi, but it seems that George thought that Dead Han wasn't a good investment in merchandising (the quote was something like: "no point in Dead Han toys"). So, yeah :/
Comment has been collapsed.
Now here we go with my next predictions.
Snoke is Plageuis. This is apparent because Plagueis had the power to bring death back to life, which is apparent in his zombie-ish appearance. He was killed by Darth sidius, but he resurrected himself. This is the most logical explanation imo for Snoke. Some people are confused about why he appears to be "Giant". Keep in mind these two things 1: He is a hologram, this could be upscaled. Its obvious this is being transmitted from a different location, supported by at the end when he instructs the guy to bring Kylo back to him for his "Final Training". 2: he could not be human, there are plenty of jedi (and sith) who are not human. this is canonical.
Rey is Luke's Daughter. In her vision with the light saber she is aged at her current age, but is really a little girl. In the rain when she sees kylo ren standing above the dead bodies, that is the event where kylo turned to the dark side and killed everyone in the Jedi Temple that Luke created after Ep 6. This is further supported by the vision she saw of lukes metal prosthetic hand touching R2(putting it into sleep mode essentially). Luke lost faith in the restoration of the Jedi due to the betrayal of Ben Solo and the destruction of his Academy. He then took Rey to the planet (in the vision you can see she is held back by a non-human hand, likely the broker she bartered with) and luke is flying away in the spaceship.
I can elaborate more if you guys like, it was a great movie and I have additional theories.
Comment has been collapsed.
Elaborate on :). I like discussing possible theories. Agree with everything you've said so far.
Comment has been collapsed.
Here are some more ramblings.
Kylo ren's lightsaber has a serrated edge to the beam. This is because he created his light saber based upon the old order and crudely designed. this is with a cracked Kyber crystal. which explains the old original "cross-blade" vents on the side. When he turned to the dark side he made a jerry-rigged light saber using a cracked kyber crystal and thats why the red blade appears serrated,
I have more input if interested.
Comment has been collapsed.
I work with a guy who is a huge SW aficionado and we were talking lightsabers today among other things.
He said the reason both Finn and Rey are able to hold their own in their respective duels is because Ren still hadn't fully mastered the art of dueling. He is stronger in other aspects of the force, the mental ones. But with physical parts, he still needs additional training. And that is one reason why his lightsaber is so crude by comparison to Lukes. He cited examples from other SW source material that helped prove his point but it's beyond me to recollect exactly what that was.
The one thing he wasn't sure of was how Lukes previous lightsaber was found from Cloud City ? He reminded me it was a gas giant planet and should have been lost forever in the gaseous environment. I never played that close attention to the blue or green blades so had just assumed that the lightsaber Rey used was the one from RotJ but was told I was wrong. So Luke probably still has that lightsaber.
Keep going, although I am going to bed soon.
Comment has been collapsed.
I love when The man from high castle reveal yourself to be a Hans Solo mother and when Hans Solo were sucking balls of Wolverine . Good thing that jewish fuhrer step in and gassed Hans Solo evil clones and half of galaxy.
Comment has been collapsed.
Heres some more
Finn is force sensitive, not as force sensitive as Rey but he definitely has the force with him. He was able to wield a lightsaber without dismembering himself and actually held up quite well against that weird storm trooper guy and Kylo. It is possible that he is the descendant of...... Get READY!!!
Mace Windu
Mind blown? I hope so.
Comment has been collapsed.
I got the feeling he was force sensitive based on the fact that he could use the laser turrets effectively despite never having seen any before or knowing how the controls worked. It was like how Luke had his first experience with the force on the Falcon shooting down chasing tie fighters.
Comment has been collapsed.
That is a very good contributing observation that I didnt even consider until you mentioned it. Yes he did have a crazy knack for that right off the get go.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah yes, there is definitely something in Finn's past that will be explored -- that's quite an interesting theory. I do have to say, the character histories and mysteries behind the three new main leads is extremely compelling.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have to whole-heartedly agree. I noticed that theres something about the whole star wars series that makes me jump at "OMG THATS HIS FATHER?! Wait waht HES ALSO LEIAS BROTHER? " It seems that the series has really gained movement based on this whole "whos related to who" thing. Not complaining because it brings the meat and potatoes to the table.
Comment has been collapsed.
I love that idea, and had not considered it.I mean, I figured that the First Order would either kill or take and train any Force-sensitive Stormtrooper recruits but of course there's no way to know that for sure. I really, really liked Boyega's chemistry with Ford and Isaac, they played off of each other well and there's a lot of humor there. Of course his scenes with Ridley were sweet and I hate the whole "shipping" thing but I'd love if they became a couple and led the new generation of Jedi together, after she is trained by Luke and then she trains him, or something similar.
Comment has been collapsed.
I guess the only problem I had with the movie was Kylo Ren. He had like, no backstory on him besides him being Han's son. And he was very weak considering that even Finn managed to get a hit on him.
pls no h8
Comment has been collapsed.
while agree with you his backstory was quite detailed in Reys vision when she touched her father (and grandfathers) light saber. Her visions detailed how he turned on Lukes Jedi Academy. The scene where she is crying in the rain, she appears at her age but its really a flash back. Kylo turned to the dark side and killed all of the inhabitants of the Jedi academy luke created, This is why luke lost faith in the rebuilding the jedi, gave up, and moved away. He reactivated R2 when he sensed that han died,(channeled from, his sister leah) she gave the same sigh yoda did when he felt disturbances in the force upon hans death. This is why R2 magicaly woke up. i can elaborate further if you guys are interested
Comment has been collapsed.
There is absolutely no proof that Ren is a Sith, just a dark Jedi.
I also think he was meant to appear weak and vulnerable and haunted by what he had done. At first I felt the same but it quickly became apparent to me that was what the story needed him to be in order to have the final act of irredeemable evil. There's no coming back from him killing Han Solo. Even if he turns to the light side down the line, I shan't forgive him for killing one of my favorite characters in fiction:P
Comment has been collapsed.
he is just an ugly crybaby...when the han die all the cinema laugh 4 his angry face
Comment has been collapsed.
He would have looked a bit better if he'd had a beard.Seriously, I've seen the actor with one and it fits him very well.
Comment has been collapsed.
If that's the case, why is his acting being praised everywhere else? I thought he played the part well (young, inexperienced, emotional) and can't wait to see his character evolve though the emotional journey of the dark side.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have a theory about Han's death that I haven't found discussed anywhere yet. I think Han intended to kill Ben when he stepped out onto the platform.
He waited until Ben was way out so he would have a harder time escaping. He got close because he knew Ben could dodge or deflect a blaster shot. When he gripped the saber, you can sense a sort of struggle both mentally and physically between the two. Han has mixed emotions about saving him and decides that he is going to kill Ben. Ben reads this in Han's mind. That is why he says "Thank you" because he needed help killing his father and turning to the dark side. If Han hadn't thought about killing him, then Ben might have given up his saber.
What do you think? I might have missed something.
Comment has been collapsed.
I like that theory a lot, gives another depth to the story which the writers may not even have realized:).
Comment has been collapsed.
Han was always a straight shooter and told it like it is. He also told Leia he was going to bring back their son and I don't think he meant in a body bag. Leia would've sensed misgivings on his part if that was the case unless she is horribly bad with the force and hasn't learned a thing in the last 40 years.
The struggle you speak of was mainly on juniors side knowing that he wanted to kill Han to compete his transition to Sith but also not knowing if he had the strength to actually do it until he did the deed (that was the whole reason for a prior scene where he's talking to Vaders helmet asking for help). Any struggle Han had with it was only because he knew how difficult it would be to convince junior to come back home. He said all the right things and not in a deceptive way and he wouldn't have been that way if his ultimate goal was to kill his own son. Han was willing to take the saber and go home but the kid struggled with giving it to him.
Interesting theory but doesn't fit into the character of Han Solo imo. Besides, isn't the whole controversy about "han shot first" mainly because people didn't want to see Han as a cold blooded murderer and he only shot in self defense? You totally go back to that unending controversy if he even thinks about offing his son in cold blood.
Comment has been collapsed.
I always picture Han as a rogue and scoundrel. A reluctant hero. Not as a Republic hero. He is often reckless and unpredictable, often doing things on a whim and surviving mainly due to his luck. He also told Leia that Ben had too much Vader in him (sort of implying that he should die) and hesitated greatly when Leia asked him to bring Ben home. I'm not saying the theory is perfect, but it has some credence.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree on the first part of your comment there. It's how I picture Han too. But the problem I currently have is I don't picture him as a 70 year old still working with the fringe element of the galaxy. Still talking his way out of near death scenarios. Still owing money to the current mafia lord for not delivering his shipment of illegal goods and having henchman come to collect a bounty and give a beatdown.
In the same regard, I didn't picture Leia as still leading the rebellion 40 years down the road to try to get the upperhand on the galaxy menace.
I certainly didn't picture Luke still being on his own in seclusion being hidden from the dark side...albeit this time as a Jedi Knight instead of a farm boy.
As for the second half of your statement, I never got that Han was implying junior should die. If Luke never gave into wanting to kill his father, it would be so out of character for Han to want his son dead. He had "Vader in him" due to being his grandson, not because he wasn't salvageable and had to die from my perspective.
The hesitation was because it was going to be very hard to do what Leia asked. Going to a Sith in training and asking nicely to stop being evil isn't an easy thing. Plus, he probably knew that if it didn't go well, he'd rather be the one on the wrong end of juniors lightsaber and not have it be Leia. I think it was those things going thru Han's mind and not how he was going to put down junior.
All of that is a heavy weight to bear knowing what you're in for. Even the moment before he yelled "Ben", you could tell he was not confident. And in many online comments, that was the moment many of us realized this was the end for Han. If he even had an inkling of killing his own kid, there would have been a quick scene of him touching his blaster or something like that.
Han went in with honorable intentions and was hoping for the best despite the odds against it working out.
The other side of that is the dark side. If junior kills Han in self defense because he thinks Han wants to kill him first, it's not so evil. Killing dad in cold blood is a direct path to the dark side.
Comment has been collapsed.
I see your point. I found it very interesting that the characters, after experiencing such a huge loss after what Ben did and how obviously the whole Rebellion thing didn't work out, retreated back to their old selves. But I think that is human nature. When their dreams at the end of Jedi turned into such huge failures (which I'm hoping to find more about), they felt and seem defeated in this new film.
Han did murder another smuggler to slow down that weird beast (rathtar) right after he is reintroduced, showing that Han is really back to his old self again. He's not the hero we thought he had become in Jedi.
I don't see Kylo Ren as truly evil. I sense good in him just as Luke did in Vader. Otherwise, he'll be a very boring villain like the ones in the prequels. So I'm hoping that he was really torn about killing Han. My theory adds credence to that.
Comment has been collapsed.
"But the problem I currently have is I don't picture him as a 70 year old still working with the fringe element of the galaxy. Still talking his way out of near death scenarios. Still owing money to the current mafia lord for not delivering his shipment of illegal goods and having henchman come to collect a bounty and give a beatdown."
Except that by Han's own admission that's exactly what he was doing. That's more the fault of poor writing and unrealistic plot development though.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yep. Not disputing the writing/plot was poor. That's probably been my main point within this whole thread whether I conveyed that properly or not.
You mentioned before that is not a bad thing they played it safe. It was the prudent thing to do for sure after the last trilogy. It's just semantics we differ on. My opinion is they went too far in keeping it safe.
I was never as big a Star Wars fan as you described yourself to be. I don't know the difference between A-wings, x-wings, y-wings that another poster spoke about. I've mainly just seen the original movies multiple times each, the prequels once each with Phantom Menace a second time just to verify to myself it was that bad. At this point, my favorite Star Wars work are the Zahn books.
I understand being safe with this story but I guess I couldn't accept being wholly safe and not one original idea put into this. The characters we all know and love had zero growth in all the years. The characters we were introduced to were newer versions of the same ones we know and love except we don't love them nearly as much. And their character growth was way too rapid to become what they are.
My favorite part from all of the movies is the opening of Jedi. Luke had been building up to it but here we see him as a Jedi master for the first time and how calm and cool he was. And how he completely destroyed Jabba's organization. It was beautiful. Rey is already that powerful. Maybe not in title but she's already there in power. What can she do from here on out that will surprise us much?
I'm sure I'm sounding like a broken record by now with my point of view so don't know how much more I'll add to the discussion in the future. Just want to say I enjoyed the back and forth here with everyone and thanks to all for keeping it friendly.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'll write a longer reply later but I wanted to say this: I think that because of the Zahn trilogy our standards may be a little higher for the story and the plot:)
I think once I see the film again I'll be able to view it far more critically. As it was, I was feeling the waves of nostalgia and really needed that dose of the "ole magic".
Comment has been collapsed.
Meh, this is the worst Star Wars movie ever, prequels are citizen kane for this shit. I don't like Han's death, everything is rehash from original trilogy, nothing new.
Comment has been collapsed.
I thought the movie was rushed, with too much action and and a not compelling story, the character development was poor and the universe was not creative.
It was more a tribute to the franchise than an actual new Star Wars movie.
It was good, delightful to watch for anyone who like the older movies, but definitely not the best Star Wars movie as some claimed at release.
I even liked the second trilogy more.
People criticize Anakin, but I found it to be more interesting than Kylo. The actor was not the best, but it actually had a real character development.
Comment has been collapsed.
I got the impression, from the crawl and the general state of affairs, that the Republic/Resistance was crumbling and the First Order was in charge of a lot of galactic systems. I sort of have to look at it that way because otherwise your analysis is quite correct.
And with the stormtroopers and pilots remember all the mains are wearing "Plot Armor" but almost every other person who isn't integral to the story gets killed by them:).
Comment has been collapsed.
It was an entertaining movie but really nothing more. Didn't get the feeling as when I watch the first series...
I liked that it had some of the old humor
Soundtrack was dull and boring.
The movie lacked content,
AND ------>
They should have given han the exit he deserved... Something like taking the millenium falcon and sacrificing himself by flying into the starkillers base powercell... Thus saving everyone he loves, cheesy but more suitable for him imo. The scene on the bridge was so predictable, I was just waiting for the stab...
Comment has been collapsed.
yeah, I've read that before i posted my comment but still. I can agree that it is the final push to the dark side, but it needed a little more 'han solo' tbh
Comment has been collapsed.
I think if they just shot/cut/edited the scene a little differently, it could have had a lot more emotional impact -- it could have been as great as the Vader as Father reveal. I didn't like the way it was set up such that the audience pretty much already knows he's a goner the moment he yells out "BEN" and perhaps Kylo could have shown some more of the resentful angst for the way his father failed to raise him.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just putting a thread up so people can discuss the movie in one place, spoilers and all. If you haven't seen the movie, run away!
Comment has been collapsed.