Oh, those poor YT content creators who make huge profits all the time whilst only having to upload some videos to make money. lol
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If I understand well, according to COPPA if your content is directed to children, it can't be monetized at all. So that could mean that none of the gaming channels can get any advertisement money from January.
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Holy moly. Since all of PewDiePie's fans are 9 year olds, he's bound to find a job, I guess. :O
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Are you for real? That was obviously ment in a sarcastic way. I like the dude.
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I was more refering to your first post about the poor Youtubers. Why don't you earn your money the easy way too if It's so trivial?
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Isn't it going to work like this: every creator tags their whole channel as 13+ (channels can be tagged); YT makes kids falsely claim, that they are over 13; nothing really changes, except for a few poor souls caught, because they have not learned in time about the change?
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You mean like when porn websites asks you to enter your date of birth and they just trust whatever you type in? :D
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If I set up a community site and don't say in the ToS "Must be 13 or older to sign up to this website" then I must comply with COPPA. Many admins don't want to deal with that BS, so they make their sites PG13. That doesn't mean that under 13's won't sneak on to your site. Of course they will. Not your responsibility when you don't know they are 8, but as soon as you find out, you have to terminate their accounts to protect yourself from being held responsible for content they might see. It's a vicious cycle, honestly. Parents should be responsible for what their young kids are doing online, but unfortunately, many are not.
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I would be outraged by the FTC, but there is a far more sinister force in play. Plus, snowflakes are considered children until age of 26 now? They are already complaining that Secret Santa causes anxiety.
Google (Youtube) is already censoring - according to their definition - and has banned and removed many politically incorrect videos and streamers. How is this any different?
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What is your problem with them? They made their hobby their job. Would you not do the same if you could?
Also, depending on the channel this can be way, way more work than "just upload some videos". You have to make the videos first. And in some cases that means editing very lenghty videos, adding a lot of effects and so on. Not every video is just the XSplit stream.
Also, are you completely forgetting about professional channels like Gamers Nexus or Linus Tech Tips? They will maybe suffer from this, too. We are talking about companies with employees who try to support their families. Not every channel is one of those let's play channels you seem to despise so much.
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Uploading videos on a sharing platform is not a job. Why? Because video editing is extremely easy nowadays, it simply takes some time. Also, most big channels don't even edit themselves but rather send their raw footage to an editor which then creates the video.
I couldn't care less about the whole new rule.
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Wait what? This is really short sighted. I guess if things are "extremely easy" they shouldn't be a job then? I guess you could take your sewage and trashes to the sewage and trash treatment plants. After all, it's extremely easy to just drive there and do it yourself, only needs a bit of time.
P/s - Not even going to remotely argue about video editing being no where near "extremely easy, only needs time" as you so eloquently put it.
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No because taking it there would require me to use my own hands and thus I would be physically demanded, which is actual work since that stuff would be heavy. Your argument is invalid.
And I do video editing for at least 16 years now as a side job and yes, it is easy. The programs have become so incredibly powerful that most stuff doesn't need any real effort nowadays.
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No because taking it there would require me to use my own hands and thus I would be physically demanded, which is actual work since that stuff would be heavy. Your argument is invalid.
So it has to be physical in order to be work? I as a software developer don't do real work then, following your description? Einstein as a theoretical physicist also didn't do "real work"? Alright then... oO
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I never doubted that non-physical work is work as well. How did you come up with that?
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How much trash do you produce if you deem them "heavy" then? I mean picking up trash from your kitchen to the garbage bin outside doesn't seem physically demanding. How does it become physically demanding to pick it up and put it into the back of your pickup and drive to the landfill/trash dump? Doesn't seem demanding at all to me, and this is borrowing your phrase, it simply takes some time. Explain how is it invalid unless if it's your original statement, which I'm borrowing here by the way, is invalid?
As for me, I try not to judge. If it pays and people make a living with it, it's a job. Your statement there makes you looks snobbish and disrespectful.
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Uploading videos on a sharing platform is not a job. Why? Because video editing is extremely easy nowadays, it simply takes some time
Yeah, for your vacation video maybe. Try editing a complex video with lots of 4k footage, and adding good looking effects in AfterEffects or Fusion, which is not as easy as you might think (if it's supposed to look good, at least). You need to put in the work and learn AfterEffects. It's not like you can just open the program and create compelling effects and animations. It's not extremely easy. You have to learn it. It depends on your content, of course. But for many channels, especially bigger ones, video editing is a lot more than just cutting and draggin video clips.
Also, most big channels don't even edit themselves but rather send their raw footage to an editor which then creates the video.
Not sure where you got that from. The channels I know edit their video themselves. Which in case of the bigger channels means there is an employee who does that, and who wants a salary each month. And as far as I'm concerned that guy has a real job and does real work, therefore he deserves real money for it.
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I don't even work with AE but Vegas, but AE has LOTS of effect plugins and purchasable plugins which allow you to do most shit in a few clicks. Video size (Like you said, 4K), doesn't matter in video editing. Most animations nowadays are prerendered and guys only need to chroma key and put them into the right position.
If your favorite channels edit themselves, that's fine. Most big YouTubers do not edit themselves. PewDiePie, for example. And yes, editing is a real job, but being a YouTuber who doesn't do it themself is not.
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I am not saying editing is super hard. But it is something that one has to learn. You can of course buy plug-ins and animations, sure. But it's not like anything works with 2 clicks like you suggest. Let a beginner try to use planar tracking with unfavorable footage and see what happens.
Anyway, creating YT content is not that different from creating any other type of entertainment. You can ridicule almost anything with your attitude:
A late show host is just talking, that's not a real job! There is a little more to that, of course. Most people cannot do that job. Fantasy author is definitely not a real job. Those guys just write down their fantasies, which is extremely easy, just takes a little time and is not remotely real work!
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Uploading videos on a sharing platform is not a job. Why? Because video editing is extremely easy nowadays
and
And yes, editing is a real job
You're contradicting yourself there. If the reason for something not being a job is being too easy, and editing is easy, editing shouldn't be a job by your standards, right?
In any case, judging if something is a job or not by its (perceived by you) difficulty it's downright stupid. A job is just any task someone pays you for doing.
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Thumps Up Killing Arts for this Comment. Most think its so easy, and why most cant do it then if it would be so easy?
They all laugh about it, they should do that for 1 Day maybe, then they see its also hard Work.
Even if the Program is easy to use, doesnt mean that everyone can do it and depends also what they want to do with it.
Just Editing Vacation Videos or real stuff, Gameplays etc. its not the same, on what the People need behind it.
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Breaking news, YouTube doesn't care about artists and is only doing things for money, says artists doing it for the money.
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Because [X] is extremely easy nowadays, it simply takes some time
To be fair you just described most of the jobs, including retail, working as a waitress/waiter, anyone working in a factory, etc
Good thing it's just as easy as the jobs people always complain about :)
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First of all, video editing's not easy. Sure, the basics are easy. I picked up the very basics within around 2 weeks going from complete zero. But go for something complicated like keyframes, paulstretches, or even anything that isn't just a basic hard cut and you'll find yourself easily stuck, figuring out how to do things not only correctly, but also efficiently.
You literally claim you know what you're talking about, yet you've edited for 16 years... like come on, do you really think 16 years isn't like tipping you off that your argument's based on some shaky grounds at best? Also, I genuinely would love to see some of your work because I do want to see if you're actually editing well or if you're doing a basic slapdash job like way too many editors who claim that it's easy.
For me, my shortest projects have taken around 2 hours, with my longest having taken 80 hours approximately. Currently I'm working on a project that's already taken 50 hours from my time and all I have to show for it is around a 15% completion mark.
Also, video editing can be 25%-75% of the full project, depending on what you're working on. Right now I have to fight technical issues, logistical issues, learn new techniques, improvise temporary fixes, create B-roll, map out the progression of the footage capturing in detail, write a storyboard, write (depends, but most likely) 3 drafts of around 40 pages of script, hold 3-4 recording sessions, which will last around 2-3 hours each, edit the audio, enhance it (usually I don't do that much since it's dull), start editing the footage, re-capture necessary extras, get a basic cut, add some complexity and then it's done. My current biggest project will most likely end around mid-2020.
I get no money from this, I probably won't get any recognition for this. I don't mean to sound like "boo-hoo, woe is me", since I don't really care. This issue won't disturb anyone's life too much since all videos are by default not approved for 13 or under and you have to opt-in instead of opt-out.
Of course, I don't have the experience you do, so things will be slower. Odds even are that you'd bang a better product out on the side during the course of a month. But my point is that you already said you need time. Well, there you go. Every job needs time. Why are you frustrated at people that earn money?
It's just frustrating that you ignore so much here just so you could have a simple argument of "It's easy to edit" without even taking a moment to actually think about it. You yourself contradicted yourself, saying it's time-consuming. Most jobs in fact have never-ever been mentally/physically exhausting for like a single session. Most things require time. It's like saying "Being a teacher is easy. You just go into class and talk a bit.", when in reality there's so much more to it.
My two questions would be these:
1) If it's so easy, why aren't you making bank with this extremely easy job so you could fund your passions and whatever else?
2) Where can we see your work? You've got 16 years behind you and while for some it might be a good way to confirm that you're actually backing up your points, for others, like me, it's a good source of inspiration that we can improve, even if it takes time.
Thanks!
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its times like this that a new website needs to swoop in and take over to replace youtube. cause youtube has show time and time again, they will throw content creators under the bus if it means making money or its the easy way out
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I don't know that COPPA is a good idea, but this video only shows that people who don't understand legal documents shouldn't make videos about them.
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Youtube isn't the only video hosting service out there.
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True. But apparently other sites have been compliant with COPPA, since I haven't heard any reports of it being a problem for them.
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It's possible that they are simply not under revision yet. It doens't mean it will stay that way.
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Basically what Ydrisselle said. The other sites haven't reached the scale and range of Youtube, so most of them are still under the radar. But if history repeats itself then very soon we will see a worldwide purge of contents targeting children.
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I don't believe that Youtube has a PG13 age restriction in its ToS. It SHOULD though. I mean, unless they make a separate children's Youtube, there's no way they should be targetting kids. They don't have to comply with COPPA if they clearly state on signup that you have to be above that age. Several sites have that restriction, so those ones won't be followed. It's only the ones that are open to all.
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And you can be sued if you are not American, too? Haha.
I know, right?
Careful what you do, people of the world or the kiddie youtube police is going to come to your country, black bag you and rendition your ass to Florida to sue you for using bad words on Youtube. Riiiiiiight
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"You can also be sued if you are not American."
They keep saying that but if you sitting at a pc in Russia you need to follow Russian law and can't be enforced by American law. Perhaps they can fine you, but they don't have any right to take it from you or jail you until you do not enter the territory of the US.
My channel not monetized so not really affect me, not much change to me to set it to make for kids, as most of the time those videos just enhancement to my achievement guides. But if all video games kid-oriented then what will FTC say if I set videos about Remothered, Dead Rising, other zombie games, etc, to make for kids? After all, those are video games too:-)
Looks like US gov wants this business to be taken over either by a Russian or Chinese company, Americans will still use YouTube, rest of the world would migrate to a new video hosting site, which not located in the US.
On the other hand, this is good news for those who not like Epic exclusivity. It will decrease some Fortnite hype so it might affect their income too.
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A quote from COPPA (taken from the ESO forum thread):
- The Internet is a global medium. Do websites and online services developed and run abroad have to comply with the Rule?
Foreign-based websites and online services must comply with COPPA if they are directed to children in the United States, or if they knowingly collect personal information from children in the U.S. The law’s definition of “operator” includes foreign-based websites and online services that are involved in commerce in the United States or its territories. As a related matter, U.S.-based sites and services that collect information from foreign children also are subject to COPPA.
I'm sure they won't be targeting only YouTube.
Abban egyetértek, hogy vicces lesz az oroszokat ezzel piszkálni, de épp elég ha megbírságolnak, és a nemfizetés miatt kiadnak ellened egy nemzetközi körözést... :P
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So, let's say there will be a new, nonUS YouTube, and they block all views from US IPs. Now that site is safe then if the company which runs it not located in the US, neither the servers:-) US will use YouTube, rest of the world will use the NewTube which will have free speech:-)
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that is correct.
As to the former comment, the law regarding jurisdiction is complex, and has undergone some recent changes due to the internet. Where a server is situated or where a company is located is irrelevant as to content & censorship laws, though they are important as to enforcement of judgments. When it comes to content & censorship, what matters is how it reaches the consumer.
If a content creator in iceland creates content in the icelandic language aimed at the icelandic audience, and anyone not in iceland must go out of their way to try to find it, then generally speaking it is not subject to any content & censorship laws of any country other than iceland. However, if an icelandic content creator creates content in the french language aimed at a french audience that is advertised in france, then the content is definitely subject to french content & censorship laws.
Note that in between those two examples there's a very large grey area, and anything that falls in that grey area should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis to determine jurisdiction. of course, we all know that that won't be the case
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Good luck putting thousands or even Millions of Youtubers in Jail. There is not enough space for that. I hear "SOPA" in the background, do you??
Tell me what's next Shutting down the entire internet?? If adults want to protect their children from any adult content related is very very easy take them to their room lock the door without PC, Consoles, Movies, Series, supermarket, School, Mall, Not even church (some girls wears sexy clothes there) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) And most important of all don't you EVER take them to the Beach like NEVER.
And don't you even get me started with porn pages, magazines and animes ect...
*Read this with Terminator Music in the background
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HmQNkcAhgg
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I highly doubt much will change. Like always.
Maybe a ...
Are you old enough to enter? [YES] [NO]
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I've heard they just have to check a box now saying their channel is not aimed toward children. If thats true then nothing will really be different.
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The problem is, that both YT and the FTC can and will check if your statement is true. And if they decide, your video is for kids, you can get some deep shit, like removal of video, channel strikes (three and the channel gets nuked), or just fine your for whatever amount they think is right, up 42K USD/video.
And even if they don't do any of this, just move the video into kid content (no comment, no search or suggestion, less ad and no targeted ad), it will be enough to reduce the video or the channel into nothing. And this will of course mean, that kid content will plummet, and kid possible content also will plummet, leaving only political talking heads and such.
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I've heard they just have to check a box now saying their channel is not aimed toward children.
This copyright attorney on Youtube essentially agrees with you, otherwise he'd be bracing for impact and discussing concerns.
Also, happy cake day!
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I just read up on the details, and people are totally overreacting.
If you're not specifically creating content for children, just check the box saying the content is not aimed at children. Done.
and hey, streaming games rated Teen or Mature are by definition "not aimed at children"
If you are creating content for children, you'll make less money. In a nutshell, such content needs to be tagged accordingly, and won't have certain features like commenting and live chat - features that aren't exactly used very often by children anyway (and really, shouldn't be). The bigger issue is that the changes will decrease the monetization of such content by youtube, which I'm sure will be passed on to the content creators. So, in a nutshell, people creating content for children will earn less money.
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Yeah, the way that I understand it, this whole thing isn't so much about content as it is that COPPA and the FTC are not cool with Google collecting data from minors and using that to sell them products, and I can't say that I disagree.
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pretty much. COPPA is about protecting children's data, not about children's exposure to inappropriate content (there are other laws that address that).
Historically, websites would do a simple age-verification check (see e.g. steam), and that would be sufficient. Very few companies have been fined under COPPA, and most of those specifically targeted children. TikTok also got fined. They didn't bother with age verification, and became big enough to get on the FTC's radar
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There is also a thing where they can terminate your account for eating up too much bandwidth.
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there's something very illogical about that. "eating up" more bandwidth means either uploading more videos, or having more people watch your videos. Youtube makes money from having people watch videos, so I doubt that'd ever cause them to terminate an account. Uploading of videos, even in the aggregate, takes up a minuscule fraction of Youtube's bandwidth, so I'm guessing the only way this would happen is if you're uploading a gazillion videos that no one ever watches. Like, uploading disney's entire back catalog onto a private channel kind of abuse.
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It's another sneaky way to remove accounts they disagree with.
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they don't need a reason, they can remove accounts whenever they want, and they have enough BS excuses in their arsenal.
That being said, they want to allow everything. They've curtailed some "extreme" content for political reasons, but they'd rather not. More content is more money, and the general view among California Technocrats is that technology should be content neutral, they're merely providing a platform, they're not responsible for what others say/post.
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I expect them to delete my second account since it doesn't make money and moving to bitchute. I'll eat up as much as their bandwidth as I can with other people's videos. Susan is a hack for killing my last account without saying why. Silence me again, Susan.
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I'll just leave this linky here: https://variety.com/2019/digital/news/youtube-coppa-rules-children-videos-fines-1203413642/
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Youtube doesn't have the 13+ content I'm looking for anyway.
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If you guys want to get educated about what is going on regarding this along with the cause and effect.
The Game Theorists covered this https://youtu.be/pd604xskDmU
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you know those dystopian movies where people are controlled all the time by the government in future cities, its become more and more real, also the 1st thing i did was say my channel never does children content, this pc "everything must be offensive so we need to block everything and make the internet a safe place" era is getting ridiculous, still waiting for an american law that bans porn
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Why you guys even care about this lol? are you youtubers? also other youtubers who only make adult content hae no effect on this
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You can also be sued if you are not American.
ok boomer
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The FTC can kiss my ass
I want to see how they want to sue all the none Americans and how they get then "their" money.
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No they can't. They'd sue you for wardrobe malfunction before they can even pucker up :P
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It's no malfunction its nudism :-D lol only a joke
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lmao yeah I guess you have to actually have a wardrobe to be sued for malfunction, right?
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Exactly....
and to grab a naked men in the moneypurse is impossible :-D
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Good that i don't said that i can make the one finger deah punch with my 11th finger if they want to try something strange with clothes :-D
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YT has been slowly killing itself for YEARS. This might the final nail? Most YT's have gone to TWITCH which I hate..... since its basically ex-cam girls and THOTS dressing in bikinis for incels to tip and drool over
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The problem isn't COPPA, which is just trying to protect young children's' personal data from exploitation, but YouTube's shitty, lazy implementation. COPPA provides for a third category, "general audiences", which covers content that appeals to both adults and children and does not need to be flagged in the same way and children under 13 content. So monetization for that category is not impacted as it would be for exclusively kids content. But apparently that is just too difficult for YT to deal with, hence the oversimplified Yes/No option that threatens to destroy 13+ channels of those who might err on the side of caution to protect themselves from penalties that they likely would never have to face anyway.
The implementation will still be bad for creators of kid's content and their young audiences, though.
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YouTube's shitty, lazy implementation
Totally agreed! Are you a lawyer??? I think you're closest to what I understand is the biggest issue at this point in time: the lack of clarity and options for content creators to finely tune their own content into the 3 categories. It may seem YT is purposely ignoring the clear language of COPPA law https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwnvjuCTb54 (take with a grain of salt)
Ian Corzine https://youtu.be/3GwDrHOe43E?t=685 as a social media lawyer can't even clearly advise content creators whether their content falls under kids content or not based on the 10 vague guidelines YT administrators have drawn up.
Also Upper Echelon Gamers had his Google Stadia video manually flagged by a YT employee as kid content, even though his entire channel was marked as "No, set this channel as not for kids." https://youtu.be/JS_z43xfaaY?t=274
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I'm getting sick of all these stupid rules that ruin everything. If you don't like your children to be subjected to inappropriate content don't give 4 year olds mobile phones or access to internet in general without supervision. Problem solved.
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The rules (or rather the laws) are made to protect people from stupid people. If you don't prohibit something with a law, there will always be an idiot doing it.
If you expect parents to do the right thing for their childs, you will wait in vain forever.
Do you really think there should be laws against homicide? Isn't it obvious?
Don't blame who makes the rules, but the stupid people that can't behave without them.
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In general I agree with you but not in this case. The whole adult world has to suffer because parents nowadays are to lazy to watch their own kids? Whole nations have to suffer and apply to new rules because 0.01 percent of the people gets offended. Come on, this nonsense has to stop. We should all take our own responsibility instead of being tormented by ridiculous crazy rules.
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Why would any adult suffer from content creators being requested to mark their content appropriately?
The vast majority won't be bothered at all. Either because their content is clearly for adults or clearly for kids. Mark your channel/content - done.
The only troubled ones are the people wanting to address kids while not being kid friendly 100%. Why should anyone mind that they have to make up their mind and follow strict rules to protect kids?
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If it's going to be as simple as mark the right button there won't be any problem at all. But apparently it's way more complicated as I saw a lot of youtubers being very worried. I don't know all the details but it has a lot of grey areas what will be a risk for people. Most people don't like risks so will stop all together.
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The whole adult world has to suffer because parents nowadays are to lazy to watch their own kids?
Unless you plan on standing over your children 24/7, you're oversimplifying. Sure, parents could be more involved in what their children are doing, but you can't watch them all the time. I grew up without internet, and my parents were very over-protective ... and I still managed to get into more trouble than I probably should have.
Measures like this are put into place to keep content creators out of trouble. It's a CYA (cover your ass) measure.
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Not having internet in my youth saved me tbh. But I know a lot of people that have young children atm. They don't give them phones with internet and ofc they can use it but the pc is in the livingroom with the screen towards the room. Works just fine. Maybe they are overprotective but I would do the same. YT is definitely not the biggest threat the "he wants nsfw pictures so I have to send them as we are having true love" is way more dangerous.
Stealing your CYA abbreviation by the way, I love it lol.
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Stealing your CYA abbreviation by the way, I love it lol.
It's not really mine. It's a pretty common saying where I live. :P
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The whole adult world has to suffer because parents nowadays are to lazy to watch their own kids?
I wouldn't call all those parents that have to fork full time and can't be with their kids as much as they'd like lazy.
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It looks as in the USA the percentage of such people is MUCH higher as in other countries.
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Yes, I noticed that as well, but I'm not sure if it's because there are more US people on the "common" web (some nations just stays in "their own" places, like Russia uses VK instead of FB), or because they have in fact an higher percentage of that kind of people.
There is indeed a common way of intending business there (which I really hate) which promotes such behaviors, and with the current president, I guess some people will just believe in that method even more.
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I remember when people used Cybernannies or you know... the good ole' word (No) to prevent their kids to watch things online they were not supposed to. Must have been last century but I remember it well.
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I do too. Even though that makes me sound as old as I am lol
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lol, yes but i think the same and be in my 40s (as young and fresh as possible^^ lol)
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Heh yeah we're only as old as we think, right? So I'll be immature forever and say things like "kids today" shamelessly.
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Exactly, and because my last girlfriend were 21 years younger i would say, my hairs excluded, i am in a ok condition ;o)
I act mostly younger as i am mens are older boys with different toys^^ but the ghetto style kids partly handy zombies drive me sometimes nuts. I am very happy that my child, niece and nephews aren't that type.
My oldest nephew had this talk phase 12 years ago, it was horrible. He don't stopped after many friendly "please stop it" sentences, so i changed the position and talked ONE COMPLETE DAY in this "language (style)" and driven him crazy. He never used that language style again :-D + he was a example for the other ones what happen when they talk this way.... (sometimes you must sacrifice one to save the rest lol) And i was very happy that i don't were forced to do it again because it was for me at least so painful as for him [but yes i was always known for "he say 3x something and then you have consequences", that make it much more relaxed with childs and teens, they know exactly where the borders are and don't need to test them very often and not with the same intense ;o) ]
A bit strange is it that i am since a few weeks double grand uncle. That push a bit at the age ^^
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so will i have to check a box next time i post a cooking with tide pods vid. hopefully my how to twerk like a pro educational channel wont loose to many viewers.
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stay tuned for my next vid, cooking your thanksgiving twerkey with tide pod stuffing.
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there is a US law called The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) since 1998 which is about chldren's online access to harmful/obscene content.
Oh I heard about that. Didn't it used to be called "Parenting" before 1998?
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You are right, that's the word I was looking for. Worked way better.
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it's too late. children are absolutely idiots.
may be next generations... who knows
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Idiots don't tend to raise geniuses though so we're heading for the Idiocracy.
There are still some good ones though. And parents who don't let the raising them part to apps and teachers so maybe we're fine.
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Long story short: there is a US law called The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA) since 1998 which is about chldren's online access to harmful/obscene content. YouTube has defended itself that their service is not for children - however it seems they lost lawsuits regarding that and they will be forced to comply from 1 January 2020. That means if you are posting videos on YouTube, and the FTC finds out that your content is harmful for children - according to their definition - you can be sued for a very large amount of money (~42k USD per video), unless you tagged your content as inappropriate for children under the age of 13. You can also be sued if you are not American.
There is a thread about this on the Elder Scrolls Online forum. The problem is that it seems FTC thinks everything about videogames belongs here: "if your content includes traditional children’s pastimes or activities, it may be child-directed" (quote from here). That could effect every gaming YouTube-channel from January.
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