i'll keep it short: don't disable games that are being given away in sites during promotions. 😋

it doesn't help anyone, it only creates confusion and makes people hostile when they spot a different game version in a giveaway. it's not even in the faq or guidelines. you're wasting support's time by making them disable games, and later check tickets for misleading giveaways.

unless i'm missing something critical that will make things worse for sg, how's disabling games from running promos a good idea? ┐(ツ)┌

also, please update at least this part of the guidelines. it's just a sentence:

Giveaways
Creating
...

  • Beta keys, guest passes, coupons, and free games should not be given away.

we talk a lot about new users that don't read the rules, but we can't point them to them if they aren't updated.

here's one giveaway for your leeching pleasure ^^

View attached image.
View attached image.
6 years ago*

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Letting users create giveaways for free games is a bad idea

View Results
Yes
No

The only reason I can think of for not allowing them would be the flood of GAs, but that could maybe be solved in some other way.
And I think the faq refers to free games as in f2p and similars.

6 years ago
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Well, with the changes in point generation the biggest impact of GAs flooding the site is gone. By that I mean they don't result in everyone having maximum P all the time anymore.

6 years ago
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I never saw that as a bad side effect, I was even a bit surprissed when I found out that CG saw it as a problem worth fixing.

6 years ago
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Thread title and poll question are opposites, likely resulting in many users accidentally picking the opposite of what they meant.

6 years ago
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Reading is hard.

6 years ago
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Well, this is the internet after all. "TL;DR" wouldn't exist if people properly read everything.
If you ever go to Reddit, you'd be amazed how many people comment on articles they have only read the headline for.

6 years ago
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it's kinda what's happening right now with the rules and free games getting disabled. it's ok to give them away, but the rules prohibit it, buuut people do it because it was in an announcement, buuuuuut it's also disabled when it's being given away in a promotion. ┐(´ー`)┌

complicated rules make no sense especially in a site where a big chunk of the population aren't native english speakers.

oh btw, i dislike free game giveaways, that's why i made that poll question ^^

6 years ago
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buuut people do it because it was in an announcement

How cute, you think those people read announcements. We had a lot of people who tried to gift freebies before the change that allowed such behavior and we have a lot of them now after the change. Those people don't care what announcements or FAQ say, they probably think they'll get something out of giving freebies and so they just do it.

Anyway, I still don't like this change and think gifting freebies shouldn't be allowed, but if they really want to keep that rule then I agree with you that perhaps they should just allow gifting of those games during the promotion as well, so people stop creating wrong giveaways. The FAQ should also be updated.

6 years ago
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I was wondering... do giving away free games earn you more slots?

6 years ago
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Was wondering this myself

6 years ago
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good question ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

6 years ago
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Deleted

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6 years ago
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Yes, although you could just ask support for more slots if you need them, so I don't consider this argument for anything.

6 years ago
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Asking the support.... -.- Maybe after 2 years you get your answer.

6 years ago
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I got my extra slots within 8 hours since making ticket, your point?

6 years ago
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I have opened tickets since 8 months.

6 years ago
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That's not an argument, I asked specifically how many tickets asking for more slots in "other" section you have.

6 years ago
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Zero. "Other" = one 8 months.

6 years ago
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Then my point stands. You can ask for more slots and get them in approx day or two at most. Whether support is effective for other kind of tickets is not really relevant when talking about slots themselves.

6 years ago
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I created a ticket yesterday asking for more slots, I got them a few minutes ago x)

6 years ago
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what are these slots you guys talk about?

6 years ago
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When a man and a woman really love each other...they create giveaways. The more you create, the more slots you get to have more active giveaways running at the same time. .

6 years ago
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Thanks for the laugh. =)

6 years ago
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When you join this site, they give you 3 giveaway slots, you can create up to 3 GAs, but for every 3 giveaways you created they give you one more slot (Giveaways have to be marked as received first). So lets say you want to create 150 giveaways but only have slots for 120, you can create a support ticket asking for more slots.

6 years ago
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I agree, if people are annoyed by a flood of GAs there´s still the option to hide them.

6 years ago
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"But wot aboot cee vee?"

6 years ago
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hmm I think someone posted a similar thingy about the same issue but this one is a solid suggestion
since the site use the "no CV" feature, there should be no problem for steamgifts in adding the free game during promo

but.. there might be a problem with the site in which the free game were being given away
it might not be okay for that site to re-gift the game they are giving away in another site

like in humble bundle, afaik there is no option to send the free game as a gift link (cmiiw) unlike when you bought a bundle
so it might not be okay to actually reg-gifting that game according to humble bundle (again, cmiiw)

also this is written in humble bundle ToS (in which I did not fully understood, but may have something to do with I was talking about):

You agree not to engage in any of the following prohibited activities: (i) copying, distributing, or disclosing any part of the Service in any medium, including without limitation by any automated or non-automated "scraping"

6 years ago
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my point is, steamgifts might just be trying to protect themselves from these "illegal" things from other site
in that case, it is better to just disable the games than dealing with other site ToS or stuff

6 years ago
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we would be already in trouble if humble bundle did something, since they think this site is for trading or selling their keys like a black market. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

6 years ago
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well this is not a trading site, the guidelines also says so "Trades should not be posted or organized on the site."
so humble should not have a problem with how the site is going
(although I'm not sure about that time when humble bundle accusing people that they are reselling humble keys or whatever)
well in the end we need an actual answer from a mod/cg himself to be sure
I still vote "no" anyway (which actually mean yes? the poll is confusing at first time reading @_@)
so yeah.. ┐( ̄ヘ ̄)┌

6 years ago
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confusing poll is confusing ¯\_( ̄ヘ ̄)_/¯

6 years ago
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it might not be okay for that site to re-gift the game they are giving away in another site

That thought crossed my mind, and along with it the thought that might be why it's the way it is now by agreement with sites that do bulk giveaways, such as Humble. I don't know if cg talks to other site operators about this, but I can imagine not wanting to antagonize them, given Steamgift's dependence on them for a sizable portions of games given away here.

If gifting a game isn't allowed, I still feel it should be obvious. I'm sure 90%+ of misleading giveaways for free games could be avoided if the user could see the game on the giveaway list but get a message saying the the giveaway can't be created. Just hiding the giveaway is obviously leading people to assume an oversight, and that a similarly-named package is close enough. The users are opportunistic, but I think the majority don't actually know they're breaking the rules. The FAQ/guidelines mention what to do if you don't see a game, but the odds are the user never read them, and there's no passage that explicitly explains games experiencing mass giveaway will be temporarily removed from the giveaway list. This change - to block giveaways of freebies rather than hide them - has been requested before, for over a year.

On a related note, I noticed earlier someone giving away Company of Heroes 2 Digital Collector's Edition. It was his first GA and that boosted him to level 3 with one $50 CV giveaway when the user marked it as received. Someone else checked with the winner and it actually was the collector's edition, so that's all good, but I can only imagine how many blacklists the giveaway creator was added to because it happened in the midst of so many other suspicious and confirmed bad giveaways. While blacklisters are within their rights to blacklist who they want, it's still for something they didn't actually do, and a real 'Fuck you!' of a welcome to new and generous giveaway creator. Allowing misleading giveaways when they could be prevented is bad business, all around, even for proper giveaways.

6 years ago
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whoa..
you just wrote an essay ヽ(°〇°)ノ

I agree with the game should not be hidden, but rather blocked (or idk whatever just don't hide it)

The FAQ/guidelines mention what to do if you don't see a game, but the odds are the user never read them, and there's no passage that explicitly explains games experiencing mass giveaway will be temporarily removed from the giveaway list.

this is so true!
although the FAQ & guidelines is well written and neat, people didn't really bother to read them..

but I can only imagine how many blacklists the giveaway creator was added to because it happened in the midst of so many other suspicious and confirmed bad giveaways.

I never actually thought of that..
it is sad to think that they are "punished" for something they don't actually do

thanks for your remark!

6 years ago
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also this is written in humble bundle ToS (in which I did not fully understood, but may have something to do with I was talking about)

I'll simpify that ToS section for you: "Please do not hack our site, kthx."
Technically it'd more precisely be 'Please do not steal site data.', but I chose the more amusing phrasing. :P

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_scraping may put the phrasing into better context for you. :)

6 years ago
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I can't open wikis :'(
thanks for you remark!
I see what they meant now :D

6 years ago
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This for sure. It's ridiculous that it wasn't this way since the start of the chaNGES FOR GAMES BEING SET TO 0 cv if hey were free. Like OP said. People are just making fake GA's under the wrong name, resulting in more issues and support tickets.

6 years ago
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I am all for games that have been previously massively gifted free to continue to be gifted on Steamgifts instead of removed for a matter of weeks. Since the gifter will get no cv for it (or if he does, will later lose it) I do not see a problem. Those who do not want to participate can hide the game from themselves. All those who get the game for free will not be able to see it anyway, leaving me to compete for that extra +1 must-have bundle trash game I have been searching for :)
Voted no :)
Edit: Forgot the thing that grinds my gears...when the gifter cannot find the game he wants to gift (eg. COH 2) and so grabs something like COH2 Master Collection. Not fair to those trying for the game and the gifter may end up suspended.

6 years ago*
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yes, both the gifter and the winner can end up suspended. the winner for creating a misleading giveaway, and the winner if he marks as received (i happens with new users that have no idea what to do).

6 years ago
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While it surely serves some purpose, it's not really useful. It would be more useful if giveaways were allowed during the promo with mandatory "free key from HB/IG/whatever, get yourself a copy there as well" description. And at the end of the day, if someone's annoyed, it takes two clicks to hide all the giveaways for a game (one with ESGST)
I'm curious how many free giveaways would be needed to be reported to support based on the guidelines until the actual rules will get changed. Or maybe, finally merged with the FAQ as it should have happened years ago.

6 years ago*
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I asked that they update the FAQ with the information from that thread, which is what you usually do when it is a programming job, you keep an up to date wiki with all releases and explain all noteworthy changes.

6 years ago
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+1
It's something I never understood after the rulechange about free games..and I found it especially annoying now with Homefront...because so many giveaways for it's sequel popped up (which is wishlisted) and it was pretty clear that most of them would be deleted anyway for "selected incorrect game"..

6 years ago
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My understanding is, because Bundler(s?) aren't online 24/7, that means someone crafty could giveaway lots of copies of free game in that time, get tons of CV, win some higher level giveaway and giveaway-maker would have to to gift them their win

Also, don't you contradict yourself by first saying "there are no rules against this", then saying "also, edit this rule that forbids this"?

But yeah, someone should clean the rules: right now they forbid to giveaway region-locked gifts/keys...

6 years ago
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there are no written rules about this thing, people know about this because there's an announcement and cg mentioned it.

https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/RCZPq/reduced-cv-and-no-cv-giveaways

the rule is still outdated and contradicts this site update.

The downside was we needed to block games and remove them from the giveaway list when they were briefly free, or posted in large giveaways outside of our community. We needed to do so to prevent users from obtaining a high number of keys for free, and giving them away for contributor value on SteamGifts.

so now the downside is they still block games while there are promos, people pick other games/packages instead, sg-police calls them out, tickets get spammed, and everyone gets angry/confused.

6 years ago
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there are no written rules about this thing

Which thing? About gifting free games during free promos? There is: "Beta keys, guest passes, coupons, and free games should not be given away.".
And yes, you're right, it contradicts the update..

Actually, after some thinking, it doesn't really contradict anything. If game has free promo, then it's free game. Rules forbid giving free games. After promo ends, game no longer is free and can be given away.

But still, to make situation clear what should be written is something along the line of

Beta keys, guest passes, coupons, and games that have outgoing free-promo should not be given away.

That way you cover both gifting games after promo ends and during promotion. But then, according to guideliines region-locked gifts are totally forbidden too..

But by deleting the rule altogether people either people will be able to farm CV for some time, especially if Bundlers go on some vacation and won't be able to update the bundle list.

6 years ago*
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trying to find a meaning to "free" sounds like playing semantics. the rules aren't clear and people shouldn't be left to guess what "free" could mean.

and i don't buy the bundler excuse. anyone in support can edit values and enable/disable them.

View attached image.
6 years ago
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I think getting CV is not a problem

since if at some point let's say game A become free to play/is given away (mass giveaway) by a site, the CV for that game will be reduced to 0 thus everyone who have been giving away this game (including they who actually bought the game) will have reduced CV which might lead to decreased in levels
(cmiiw)

although this part is true "get tons of CV, win some higher level giveaway and giveaway-maker would have to to gift them their win", this might not actually happen
because I don't think that this disabling free-game thing is an automatic feature, but rather a manually updated thing, then if they are going to make it 0 CV it would have been the same as it now (only the game is not hidden), chances are really low that one will actually get tons of CV and win a high level giveaway

also Mully didn't said that "there are no rules against this", Mully said that this disabled games during free promo thing is not on the guidlines/faq

it's not even in the faq or guidelines.

and that the faq/guidelines needs to be updated (so that people can actually point out that these stuff blablabla is on the faq/guidelines)

ps sorry if my words are confusing, did you get what I'm talking about? ( ̄▽ ̄*)ゞ

6 years ago
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whoops I should've refreshed before posting but whatever

6 years ago
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since if at some point let's say game A become free to play/is given away (mass giveaway) by a site, the CV for that game will be reduced to 0 thus everyone who have been giving away this game (including they who actually bought the game) will have reduced CV which might lead to decreased in levels

AFAIK, number of people who can disable game from gifting is bigger than number of people who can make game be worth 0 CV. Which means it could make game having full CV for long period of time and someone who gave those free games would be able to farm some nice CV.

Mully said that this disabled games during free promo thing is not on the guidlines/faq

But it is. "Beta keys, guest passes, coupons, and free games should not be given away.".
If game has free-promo, then it means it's a free game. If game is considered free, you are forbidden to gift it. Since you're forbidden to gift it anyway, there's no reason to search for it, which means being disabled won't affect you because you couldn't gift it anyway. (well, you could, but you'd break rule).

6 years ago*
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"number of people who can disable game from gifting is bigger than number of people who can make game be worth 0 CV"
by "people", you mean mods?

If game has free-promo, then it means it's a free game. If game is considered free, you are forbidden to gift it. Since you're forbidden to gift it anyway, there's no reason to search for it, which means being disabled won't affect you because you couldn't gift it anyway. (well, you could, but you'd break rule).

that would be correct, but my point was to say that there was no clear statement about the game being blocked in the guidelines / a faq about that
they even mentioned this in the guidelines:
"If the game is not available in the giveaway list, please contact support to have the game added, instead of posting the giveaway under an incorrect name."
whilst the game has been added but is blocked for the current moment
this creates confusion

sure you should not create a free games for the giveaway, but there's no stopping one from actually searching the game on the list just because it's forbidden
it would be nice and neat if it was explicitly said in the guidelines about how things are working (of course unless there's something that might do harm to the site about revealing this information, which I don't see what)
it might not be critical and people can still be "punished" from what the guidelines says as what it is now, but I still prefer that to be added
(I know it's all coming back to "I want that in the guidelines")

peace out ʕ´•ᴥ•`ʔ

6 years ago
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and giveaway-maker would have to to gift them their win

You have the right to reroll if your winner no longer meets the level restriction of the giveaway [to prevent exploitation such as you mentioned], so you can always just hold off on delivering the win until the CV is dropped back down to correct levels.
Though, that fact that you indicated not knowing that rule, in itself makes your point that such exploitation can be beneficial to exploiters, as it's certain that other GA creators will not know the rule, or will not bother confirming/remember to confirm level of their entrants.

6 years ago
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I know about that rule, but how often you check if winner isn't on 3.99 CV and only got to 4.01 because for example Deponia again went crazy with pricing?

And while noticing someone who gave away 50 copies of some game might be easy, what about people who give one copy of a game? And then, not everyone follow every "free game" threads...

6 years ago
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I.. don't get your concern. Except at the bottom-most levels, a single copy (or even several) of a game won't adjust CV in any way that'd make a measurable impact to the user's level. As the games do get dropped to 0 CV fairly quickly, the timeframe for exploitation is fairly low.
Likewise, if you're nitpicking because someone was 3,99 rather than 4,0 to begin with, then that's just being overly rigid about arbitrary cut-offs. I mean, the odds of someone intentionally stopping that close to the next level, just so they can "exploit" a level up every so often, is just.. gods, if they wanna go through that effort, let them. It really isn't a big deal, and they're only hurting themselves in the long run, and giving us quite a few free game giveaways to boot. We only gain from that scenario.

Likewise, I personally really don't care if someone gave away the entire Daedelic catalog and cycles through 30~CV each time they go on and off sale. There's always a bit of arbitraryness and exploitativeness to giveaways, and at least Daedelic games are good ones. It seems more reasonable to be concerned with the people who buy 10-copy bundles at an effective price of 50~cents per bundle, and the $1 tier GameMaker bundles, both of which provide users with a consistent, much larger boost to CV.

If that's the kind of thing that's of strong concern, why not just set a minimum level range of 4.15 on a SGT filter, if you want to exclude level 3s who may be relying on such giveaways? As I noted in my last reply, you've got a strong point in that most GA creators won't notice free game CV exploitation. However, the GA creators that especially care about such things, generally will find a way to get their preferences met.

The system isn't perfect, no- but if you find these specific kinds of situations to be stressful, it's usually easy to realize (when Daedelic games are on sale, or a free game is being given away and likely to be exploited) and adjust your giveaway habits to match the situation- or to give giveaways away in a way that generally avoids such users to begin with. One of the major distinctions of SG is that the GA creators who don't follow up on something, usually don't actually really care about it in the first place. For everyone else, we've resources like SGTools and group giveaways to help us match to our preferences- in other words, if we care enough about a matter to put in the time, we can make sure our preferences our met.

As I noted- if you care about such things, the site rules do let you reroll freely, so it all boils down to if you care enough about the matter to quickly glance at the user's profile before sending to them (I'd recommend their SGT sent page if you're wanting to check for specific [Daedelic] sent games). Past that, it's all just discussion of flaws within the site infrastructure, and unless you've an idea on how to adjust the code to be more functional, there's really not much reason to stress over that aspect of things.

6 years ago*
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as usual, the system is fine (the faq is dated and maybe it should be better communicated), but it's the damn people and users who mess things up. If everyone would understand and wouldn't try to give games away under wrong giveaways everything would be fine.

Best option in my opinion is that in the create giveaway list the game that cannot be given away appears in the list, but there is a warning:
"This game cannot be given away at the current time and DO NOT try to give it away as another game. Read more (linking to the faq part that gives the overall reasons why a game at some point can't be given away)."
And if people still don't understand or still create giveaways then we have to live with it, because people.

6 years ago
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As it is there's just more work for everyone on the support side than there needs to be. First the game has to be disabled, then it has to be re-enabled and marked as a free/no CV title and somewhere along the way all the incorrect giveaways from during the disabled period need dealing with as well as any from before it was initially disabled.

Just skip all the hassle and mark it as free/no CV in the first place. The game doesn't need moving twice, no giveaways need dealing with* and as long as it's dated correctly nobody gets CV they shouldn't have. I said this when the change was first announced and I still think that's the way it should have been all along.

*There will always be a number of cockwombles that try to game the system by giving away free games as something else but a large part of the issue was always that people couldn't find the right item in the list. If it isn't removed from the list in the first place the issue is minimised.

6 years ago
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As long as GAs are retroactively set to 0 CV afterwards I don't see any problem with your suggestion. The current solution is unnecessarily complicated and creates hostilities over nothing since AFAIK those early bird creators who give free games away before they are removed are already not getting (or rather keeping) CV once it has been retroactively set to 0.

I'd still like to encourage GA creators to link to the promotion in the description when giving away free games from a currently running promotion. That way everybody who wants can grab a key themselves while those who don't want to bother with that stuff can try their luck here.

6 years ago
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+1

6 years ago
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Well I would keep it as if you want put the link if not there is always a post in the discussion tab if a game is in a promotion now :)

6 years ago
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True but it might still be helpful for people who only use the GA section of the site and not the forums ;)

6 years ago
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I'm happy free games can be given away now at least. Often to get these "free" games you have to do stuff that I don't wanna do, so I'm glad to still get a chance on them here~

6 years ago
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I think the main reason this is not done is to avoid flooding of the amount of giveaways that would then occur.
Also, they would have to be set not only to 0 CV; but also count against '# of games given' for SGT purposes.
Not disabling them will also prevent sending the signal that you are not allowed to give it away (that's why it's disabled). Thus, more people will think it's allowed to give them away and result in even more flooding of giveaways.
People have to be extra careful not to join these giveaways, as they could just as well go to the promotion source and obtain the key for free. If joining, they waste their points for nothing, as the giveaways won't be deleted and the keys will actually be delivered, so no refunds.

Contrast the current system, where it's clearly misleading to create giveaways for the wrong games, and the people who do so can clearly be punished, and points are automatically refunded once their fake giveaways are deleted, which protects all other users in the meantime.

Very clever to reverse the poll options, I'm going to have to remember that strategy whenever I want to encourage people to vote for unpopular opinions. 🤣

6 years ago
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Not disabling them will also prevent sending the signal that you are not allowed to give it away (that's why it's disabled). Thus, more people will think it's allowed to give them away and result in even more flooding of giveaways.

well said..
didn't think about that before
so they should've just state that "free games will be blocked blablabla" then?

6 years ago
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Removing the game from the list would prompt user to create a fake giveaway for a different game with similar name. If we want to prevent user from creating giveaway for games which are currently being given away, at least leave the game in the list, but displaying an error message with warning not to add a different game.

There should also be a mechanism for moderator to flag a game as being given away for free which does the following things in the background:

  • Record the start date of the giveaway and delete all ongoing giveaways which is created after the start date
  • Mark the game as free from the start date.
  • Optionally record the end date of the giveaway, which automatically allow the game to be given away again after the end date. This would be useful for giveaways with set end dates, such as those from HumbleBundle.
6 years ago
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it's all good sg, nothing to see here <3
just people sharing their masterpiece edition copies they bought when there's a free promo for the base game. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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6 years ago
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Are the usernames japanese or something on The Sims?

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6 years ago
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no, they are censored to prevent me getting suspended. i know support is reading this thread but they won't comment =3

6 years ago
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Well, the Masterpiece Edition was in a monthly not that long ago…

6 years ago
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Yes, but its a bit strange that everybody creates this giveaway now when there is a promotion.

6 years ago
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base game + soundtrack

I do approve of letting people giveaway free games if they don't get cv or extra slots

6 years ago
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Masterpiece edition includes Inheritance DLC though.

6 years ago
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yep, just clarifying that it includes a DLC

6 years ago
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6 years ago
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One thing I'd suggest is making it so free giveaways don't count towards the total number of giveaways listed on your profile (or are added parenthetically, eg. "56 giveaways (plus 24 giveaways for free games.)" This would close the only remaining loophole that might encourage people to excessively grab and give away currently free games.

With that fixed, there's no reason not to let people give them away (and it's better than letting a free thing you accidentally grabbed but already have / don't want go to waste, or having it grabbed by a bot.) It's definitely better than the current situation, where many, many people give away the game under the wrong name, wasting support's time, making it harder to find giveaways for the version they selected, and getting timed out. Floods of giveaways are easily ignored by hiding that game anyway.

6 years ago*
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If I remember correctly, in the old days of SG V1 (about 5 years ago), bundled games were strictly verboten and they first allowed the gifting of bundled games only after said bundle had expired. I think the reasoning behind this was to avoid potentially discouraging people from buying the bundle themselves and trying their luck here instead, either as a gesture of goodwill or to avoid complaints from the bundle organisers at the time (there were only a handful then). It made more sense then too because SG used to allow the gifting of entire bundles, not just individual games.

I don't know if it has been mentioned already, but my guess for disallowing free games to be given away while the promotion is running is for somewhat similar reasons: to not provide an additional incentive here for people to "exploit" said promotion by taking more keys than they ought to, especially if they already own the game(s) in question. For promotions with limited supply, it's kind of frustrating to miss out, only to see tonnes of copies given away here by people who already have the game or don't want it, possibly in the erroneous hopes of gaining CV. So I can understand the motivation for not allowing giveaways for free games during their free run if seen from this perspective. Not that this policy is successful, mind--people being people and stuff.

6 years ago*
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Let them make giveaways but 0credit giveaways, you know the ones with the double ** on them

6 years ago
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I thought the disabeling happened/is happening because of the high traffic it would cause (when free games are given away) and the site slows down significantly shrugs but that might be outdated now?

6 years ago*
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Closed 3 years ago by Mully.