Has it dissapeared?
As a consumer, the only way to act is to act as an individual. Setting aside your own desires for the good of "the group" makes no sense at all.
I don't buy day one. I don't pre-order. I don't buy cosmetic DLC. I don't buy full price. Do I do all this for the good of "the group?" No. I do it because it suits me and my wants and needs as a consumer. My actions get aggragated and people somewhere else make decisions based on the aggregate. That's how it works.
Quit whining and learn about human nature. Then, stop bitching about what other people do and decide what you want to do.
Cheers.
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This. So much this. I preordered because I know I have the Steam refund available, otherwise I wouldn't have preordered.
Also, I paid $60 for my experience. Not anybody else's. And my experience has been great, so I base my actions on that.
The game has obvious issues, and the port seems to be pretty badly done. People affected by it should complain, and they seem to be doing it. HG should fix it. I acknowledge that.
But expecting me to whine about it, when I'm not affected? Nope, that's not going to happen. That's not how markets work.
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This is exactly tjhe problem with today's society. Why would I look for the rest when I'm confy and cozy, right?
Whatever, consumer individualism as a way of changing established patterns in an industry has never worked. You need a coordinated widespread action, or a switch in public perception.
But whatever. I mean I enjoy MY product. Fuck everyone else.
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"But whatever. I mean I enjoy MY product. Fuck everyone else."
That's not even close to what we mean. I trust the market, and I trust that, given a sufficiently bad product, the provider will suffer a sufficiently bad whiplash to make them realize they did something wrong.
With Steam's refund available, and if the launch was such a disaster as a vocal group seems to make it seem, then HG will definitely see that they royally screwed up.
However, what you're asking me to do is to listen to complains not only from those facing issues, but also from those that, even when their game works fine, decide for some reason to band up and also complain. That is definitely not a good reflection of the state of the game. What this behavior guarantees is that the negative feedback for a product will snowball and it will no longer reflect the actual state of the product. Which I'm almost 100% percent sure it's what's happening in this case. A skewed feedback like that will be useless.
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Quit whining and learn about human nature. Then, stop bitching about what other people do and decide what you want to do.
Thats what I gathered from that sentence, I might have misinterpreted it, who knows. The launch was a disaster, objectively, and it's not being reflected as such. That's whar irks me.
I'm saying those without issues have to complain, I do say they should show support to their peers that couldn't get the game to work and not dismiss their claims or outright insulting them.
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I'm struggling to come up with a reason why "The launch was a disaster, objectively, and it's not being reflected as such. That's whar irks me." isn't a hypocritical statement in contradiction with "it's simply pathetic to see people defend and become emotionally invested in a product."
They're invested in promoting it and you seem to be invested in tearing it down. Either way both sides are interacting with the game in some way and both seem to have some agenda outside of their personal experience with the game. You are the other side of the same coin, and honestly the harder you push these people the harder they'll defend. Want to stop hearing good things about NMS? (of which I've heard very, very little BTW). Stop engaging with it, and its fans and just move on.
What it means to be a "conscientious consumer" should be very personal. If something fits your needs, gives you the ROI you expect, doesn't cross any of your ethical lines, and is a price you can afford then that purchase is fully defended and stating that the item does this FOR YOU isn't a problem. I agree that you can't white wash people with legitimate complaints but that is also a two way street. You can't deny that it works for some as well.
I can't decide what set you off. Either you bought NMS and are upset that it doesn't work for you or that you feel that it doesn't meet your expectations or, and I suspect this is the case, you haven't played NMS and are participating in Outrage Culture by becoming outraged on behalf of others (who are perfectly capable of being outraged themselves). IF this is the case you are worse than any NMS apologist ever could be. Outrage Culture is by far the most worrying trend in modern consumerism.
People have been blindly buying into hype since the dawn of time (I've got some high quality snake oil here for anyone with any sort of malady) but this behavior where we become enraged about things which do not involve us, effect us, concern us and participate in things like DDoS attacks, review bombing, doxing, death threats, stalking, etc., "in defense" of things or people that either A) need no defending or B) are perfectly capable of defending themselves has been enabled by the internet and we've already seen the ramifications.
And yes, this does mean I'm outraged and Outrage Culture.
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It's not hypocritical by any stretch of the imagination. I don't want NMS to fail, that would be vile, why would I want that? Why would I want the people who bought and are enjoying their game to stop doing it. It's nosensical.
I will raise the issue as many times as necessary and I don't care that people want to defend whatever they feel connected to with nail and teeth, it's my duty (our duty) to call out developers/publishers/sellers on bad practices, for the benefit of everybody else.
I have been hearing things about NMS for years, when I wasn't interested at all on the game I had people singing its praises and hyping it up everywhere. They have had a pretty obnoxious marketing campaing.
I didn't buy NMS, I won't probably either, I am not outraged in behalf of others, I am outraged myself at the actions of others, those mainly being keeping supporting "bad" bussiness practices. Not to mention that I don't buy your slipery slope and that I think that games being released in a broken, unfinished state, affects me, even if I'm not going to buy the game itself but it will shape how things unravel down the line.
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Fair enough, I think I begin to understand your point. I don't share it, however. You state that the launch was a disaster, objectively, and that may be true (not really an objective statement, given the adjective you chose, but whatever). However, I ask you to consider the following:
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The game has 130% as much negative reviews as it does positive ones, in Steam. And that ratio has scaled up at an incredible speed. I do not have the data at hand, so I may be wrong about this, but I wouldn't be surprised if NMS was the big-publisher game to gather the most negative reviews in the shortest amount of time after launch.
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Take a look at the most influential review outlets out there. IMHO, they're giving the game all the criticism it deserves. Ars Technica being an example of it. Jim Sterling, TB, and other big youtubers are indeed providing what I think is a balanced view of the game.
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A lot of people like the game. An I dare say that a big part of that group didn't buy into the hype.
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There is a huuuuge group that's actively bashing the game non-stop, and actively trying to diminish the joy others can get from it. For what reason, I don't know. It's a bandwagon, and I dare say that many of them are moved by the very same feeling that you try to promote in this thread. I say again, people that didn't buy the game, of those who weren't otherwise affected by it's state at launch, shouldn't be bashing it. No one gains nothing from that, absolutely no one.
My bottom line, if you read the whole response (thanks if you did) is this: the amount of negative feedback that this game has had is probably around what it should have had. It's likely more than it should, considering that reviews for any kind of product or service tend to be skewed to the negative side by nature (people affected negatively tend to be more vocal about it), and the huge amount of people jumping into the bandwagon.
Should NMS listen to those complaining and fix their game? Sure, they absolutely should. They'd be huge jerks if they didn't. But at the same time, people should stop bandwagoning.
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+1
Also I don't get why I would be mad for someone else buying and enjoying a game even if I don't have any interest in it. I didn't buy Battlefront because I didn't believe they had a fair business model, I didn't buy NMS because it seemed rather bland, I won't go see Ghostbusters because it hasn't remotely sparked my interest and I won't buy female hygiene products because they don't really apply to me. If people simply stopped acting like hype was heroin they had forcibly injected in their eyeballs and showed a little restraint instead of just throwing money at anything that has the words NEW GAME and AAA attached to them perhaps they'd be happier. I sure as hell don't understand why people love all these survival games nor the appeal of games such as prop hunt but that doesn't mean I want to take that away from someone else.
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This pretty much sums it up, it's the correct way to act for a consumer.
Things like these happen because there're many who will pre-order (or buy at day one) every new AAA (or hyped indie) game that gets released, just because they can.
Now, I'm not trying to say that paying $60 dollars just because you can afford it is bad, it's just the principle of pre-ordering / buying at day 1 no matter what that is, because then publishers feel entitled to release unoptimized, and sometimes broken or unfinished games, just because people would buy them anyway.
The way it works, it's just a neverending cycle of:
- publisher opens pre-orders for hot new game;
- fanboys / rich kids start throwing money at them;
- game turns out to be a bad port / buggy mess;
- people start (rightfully) whining;
- game gets a bandwagon of hate;
- game gets even higher visibility (although under a bad light);
- devs eventually fix their games (or fail at it, like with Batman: Arkham Knight);
- game is still polluted by day 1 negative reviews, even if it's good now;
- new game gets revealed, rinse and repeat.
If people stopped throwing money, we would just start from point 7, like in the good old days...
And let's not get started on the issue of pre-order bonuses, DLCs, GOTY / Director's Cut editions, remasters, and so on...
That said, complaining about the state of the industry nowadays, is like complaining about the Sun being too hot, or the sea being too salty.
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the problem are not people who don't participate in discussions and just do their own thing. the problem are people who actively try to prevent people from complaining. this has nothing to do with "bitching".
let's say you want to tell the dev that they should not release an unfinished product, and that they need to fix it. there are so many idiots who want to prevent you from complaining about the game they seem to love more than anything. they will derail your thread and tell you what a jerk you are for complaining. they will tell you "if you don't like it, don't buy it, idiot", as if that's the only allowed action to take in case of an unfinished release (which of course is bullshit). and that is a problem. not the guy who does not actively help the community. but the guy who actively tries to work against anyone with a different opinion.
of course, with your last sentence you sound exactly like those idiots. quit whining, stop bitching. as if you are personally offended by what he said. are you?
'cause the moment you tell other people to stop complaining about whatever they complain about, you are not the guy who does his own thing anymore. you are part of the problem then.
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You kinda worded what I meant to say more eloquently. It's not about not being able to enjoy something if it works proper for your, it's about not dismissing other's people legitimate issues because it works for you.
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+1 As a consumer I couldn't care less what others think. Sure, it helps to make decisions if you see that nobody likes a game, but I buy games for my own enjoyment, not for someone else's. If I were to act like the "group" wants, then I would end up buying a ton of games I'm not even remotely interested in and also wouldn't buy a lot of games I really like.
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as i said above, people who just play their games and are happy are never the problem. the problem are those, who actively try to prevent others from complaining about issues they don't have themselves. it's not the lack of interest in the group (to use your wording here), it's the strange motivation to want to fight against the group, just do defend their favorite game (no matter how poorly it might perform for others)..
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You're right. I really don't understand how some people can defend some parts of certain games (especially Bethesda fanboys never want to admit that those games are buggy as hell).
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Thank you. This is exactly my point of view.
I got Doom within two weeks after it was released because the reviews and videos convinced me that it is a good game. Even if I was really looking forward to the game, I would have never pre-ordered it. I even got it with the pre-order bonus for 30$.
If a new game is worth it, support it. Don't throw money at the hype. Wait until you can see what it is.
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Two years to convert or two years to fix half the bugs and deal with the other ones they bring up?
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-_- I'd honestly consider pirating this game but it insta-crashes to desktop (SSE4.1 bullshit apparently) It's the first game I ever returned to steam. I'll hold out for a sale or wining it at this point... provided they manage to fix their shenanagans. In the mean time I guess I'll just go back and play some 'old' game that my 'prehistoric hardware' can handle on high settings.... like witcher 3
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To be fair, SSE4.1 was introduced in 2008. 8 years ago.
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AMD's first processor to support SSE4.1 wasn't till 2011, and even then, almost nobody buy's brand new hardware every single year unless they're filthy rich.
And the fact that they're supposedly perfectly capable of fixing it, implies they just didn't test it on a very wide range of pc's, overall the entire pc release feels like a rushed afterthought (which it very well might be since they were funded by sony)
I'll probably rebuy the game "eventually" once it sounds like all the bugs and oversights are fixed up, and it's on sale.
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Still, 8 years ago if you use Intel. Updating a single component every 2 years or so isn't so impossible. Running on a pretty low budget here and I've updated my whole PC twice since 2008.
Like, a really tight budget, about 2500 a year. But, if you love PC gaming as much a I do, you make an effort, a very low budget effort.
So, in retrospect, it is "kind-of" ancient to not have a CPU that supports it by now.
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Concerning the technical problems youre right.
If I buy a game and it doesn´t work thats reason enough to get angry, refund, complain etc.
But concerning the content theres no reason to complain (and I haven`t played it) ... its the same with any entertainment product
If you go see a movie premiere and its shit ur just outta luck...if u want to be safe wait for reviews...or take your chances
some people enjoy it some dont...thats jsut the way it is
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Agreed. I'm not saying that NMS is a bad game (I haven't played it) but I can say that it has had a bad launch and that doesn't seem to reflect as much as it should in either sales or public perception.
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What? People complain about movies all the time. There's a huge difference between losing $10 on a movie because you didn't like it and losing $60 on a game hyped on empty promises. Go pull up the very first video on the No Man's Sky steam store and you'll see they even had the balls to keep footage of those empty promises right there. Your ship isn't that detailed, planets aren't that flush with flora and fauna, you can't fly your ship that low, and those Brachiosaurus looking things are in game objects (not generated creatures like you find) etc. How about multiplayer? As a consumer you and I have every right to complain about content and vote with our dollar but fanboys will be fanboys and that's why I voted "Can't you be more naïve, it never existed."
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There's a huge difference between losing $10 on a movie because you didn't like it and losing $60 on a game hyped on empty promises
there really isnt...apart from the pricetag
movies get hyped as well and the marketing can be deceiving...the main difference is you can actually watch 30 minutes of gameplay before you buy a game...cant do that with a movie (at least not legaly)
No one returns his deodarant to the shop because ladies didnt rip their clothes off....or sues red bull because they couldnt fly (maybe that happened but unsuccesfully xD)
All Im saying is don´t believe in promises and wait for the finished product. And if you think 60$ is too much for an indie title then dont pay it.
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"there really isnt...apart from the pricetag"
That is literally the definition of a difference. Furthermore a movie is a limited use product and the time value of money is completely different for both. One is $10 for an hour and a half and one is $60 for much more entertainment time. Frankly the $60 price tag doesn't bother me = for a video game but I have higher expectations of my enjoyment out of that $60 then what I spend at the movie theater.
Again you are making terrible comparisons between a limited use product and a video game; there is a huge difference. I didn't buy this game for the exact reason you mentioned but to say "It's your fault for getting tricked into buying a product" is shitty logic. No one watches an Axe commercial expecting girls to rip off their clothes so that's a terrible analogy. A correct one would be buying a can of Axe named "mountain mist" and it smelling like dog shit. By your logic if you bought that can of Axe body spray, you would only blame yourself when you smell terrible from it. Do you really operate this way IRL or would you be mad at Axe?
"All Im saying is don´t believe in promises and wait for the finished product. And if you think 60$ is too much for an indie title then dont pay it."
My point is there's a huge difference in both of these sentences. Are you really saying it's the consumers fault for believing a game is multiplayer because the Devs said it would be and then it turns out it isn't? Being an indie game and $60 has nothing to do with that. What you said implies that indie games are allowed to be shittier because they are indie and is exactly the problem. I choose to vote with my dollar and choose not to preorder a product but I also don't think it's their fault for buying a product based on a video and getting upset when they receive something entirely different. I don't preorder a game in case the devs shit the bed, like they did here, but that doesn't mean said practice is ok. Those that did preorder it have every right to be mad and request a refund. They didn't get what was advertised; it's very simple.
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Are you really saying it's the consumers fault for believing a game is multiplayer because the Devs said it would be and then it turns out it isn't?
Yes, Steam offers you various categories and clearly shows if game supports multiplayer, controller, VR or anything else you want to check. If you don't do that, or blindly trust what you heard from your friend, developer, or your cat, it's your own fault for not checking. It's same as registering for paid services without reading their ToS and knowing they're paid - it's your own damn fault because you're supposed to do that. I agree with majority of your points, because obviously noone should expect from anybody to watch gameplays and deeply analyze the title before buying it (that's optional), but there are some things that can be easily checked and verified, and if I decide to buy product X, regardless what it is, it is expected that I at least barely know something about that, for example if my new headphones will work with my phone. If I order a burger with spinach, and I'm allergic to it, who is to blame for that? Company for selling me one?
NMS is a disaster, but people who pre-ordered it are not fully innocent, because by pre-ordering you intentionally agree on blind terms - it's exactly the same as going to cinema on movie that wasn't reviewed anywhere yet. You can expect SOME minimum quality control, and that's also the case with NMS, but you can't expect that game or movie will reach your expectations and hype. It's up to developers/publishers what they release or how they plan doing their marketing. If they promise you X and don't fullfil it, be it because of time, money or other issues - it's a sign for you to not trust them again, instead of demanding from them anything.
No quality control, service, department or government will save people from their stupidity. If you're wise, you know that you shouldn't pre-order things you're not sure about, regardless if they say that game will include X or not. You can only expect that if they confirm that something exists, and it won't. AFAIK no developer ever confirmed that any of those elements exist in final version, so you should know that trailers and developers promising things are not really any different from that McDonalds/KFC ad featuring perfect burgers and chickens. And actually those game companies are much better as they had high expectations towards their own title, it just didn't work for one reason or another.
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I mean, archi. I agree with most of your post, but claiming that people who expected any kind of MP function were delusional is a bit far fetched when Sean himself said that it was. I can't use youtube now, but there's clips around.
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They were not, you could in fact expect MP after it was announced as a possibility from devs, but still if there is somebody who bought NMS purely for that, or MP availability was his major decision reason, he could really check prior to buying, unless you pre-ordered (but in this case you intentionally lost your rights and believed blindly).
It's not easy to tell who is wrong in this situation, that's why I'm trying to find middle ground. Lack of MP might not be necessarily devs fault, same as lack of common sense is not an excuse to expect from them to fill one's hype and expectations. I don't like where it's heading, but I learned to take every trailer and pre-final gameplay with a grain of salt, and wait a week or two after game is released to see if it does match expectations, usually from steam reviews alone to not spoil myself experience, but barely check what other people think. It's not perfect, but "mixed" reviews of NMP would be a sign to me that people expected more and got less. < 60% for AAA is bad score.
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I think you are missing the point we were having with based on both of our posts. My point was that if a consumer isn't happy with a product they have every right to request a refund. No where was "not having multiplayer: was a crutch for my entire debate. I don't pre-order games for every reason ALL of us said but that doesn't mean people who pre-order and are let down by false promises and a game that can't be played shouldn't get a refund. I was not defending the intelligence of people who pre-ordered, I was defending their right to request a refund based on the product that has been released so far. You seem to be focusing on the wrong part of our debate and taking one line out of context.
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it's simply pathetic to see people defend and become emotionally invested in a product
They still remain attached to the publisher, who has been feeding them lies from the very start.
In the end, the small developer ended up being the solely responsible for its failure, even though Sony, being the one who marks the price of which the product will be sold, remains free from criticism
Unlike other titles, published by sony, NMS received no help from the publisher, aside from the marketing hype provided, wich in the end resulted in its downfall
PS: To lazy...stopped reading after that
EDIT: Seems like Sony and Nintendo are always perfect in the eyes of the consumer, while the developers are 100% responsible for the product
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The devs shipped the product. After the devs asked for more time after the previously planned launch to fix the issues. They didn't.
The publisher also doesn't set the price just by thinking up a number, it is clearly stated in the contract they make with the developer. The devs agreed to create a game that is launched in the full-fledged AAA category. They signed a contract that they will create something to fit that category. And they failed.
It's like when buying an apartment. if the pipes are leaking, the walls are moldy, and the heating system breaks down in the first winter, who made the mistakes: the agency that sold you the apartment or the contractors who built it?
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Sorry to bring Rockstar has an example, especially considering they do not have the same size.
But, they simply do not release or hype unfinished titles. Just was the case with L.A. Noire. Plenty of time and money was put into the project, and when things seemed to have stagnated they added their own team to finished the project.
the agency that sold you the apartment or the contractors who built it?
Definitely the agency, Just like Publisher should scratch out ideas that have not yet passed the concept stage
That the same mentally EA uses. Now look how bad their titles are
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How? I don't really hear many complaints about EA games, apart from the occasional packaging or DRM ones (like the Sim City server logon problems). The only games I heard a lot of shit about from them somewhat recently were the police Battlefield game and the Star Wars MP arena shooter. (Or, well, the demo of it, based on what they shipped as a supposidly full game and how much content was locked behind a paywall.) Nowadays it seems UbiSoft gets most of the shitstorm.
Definitely the agency
In reality, you sue the agency who get that money from the contractor who did the shoddy job. And if Sony loses money, this will be the case as well. The only difference will be that the devs have for some ungodly reason an army of rabid, fanatically zealous fanboys that will defend them at every public outlet.
(Seriously though, fuck the supposedly scary Undertale community—which I never managed to meet, despite actually owning the game—this No Man's Sky spawned an alarmingly large group of gamers that put Bethesda fanboys to shame… and those are some really fanatic and short-sighted dumb fuckers.)
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Might as well, As a kid i did the same thing, my parents where poor so when they would buy me a very expensive game, i would tell myself it was all worth it.
As for the bad community you speak of...Never seen them, Never heard of them.
So far the steam store page holds mostly criticism. I don't see fanboys and there's very few attacks on the developer
EDIT: As for EA, where do i start?
tons and tons of unfinished games and bad Drm. Huge amount of teams that closed doors due to weak sale numbers.
Developers and the men in the suits having completely different mentalities and ideas for a game, where said inclusion of those idea always seems forced and badly integrated.
Im a big fan of the NFS franchise. One of my biggest issues is the mesh of both arcade and simulation gameplay, that has been present ever since Pro Street with the exclusion of HP
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Try to venture into the forums or the game's subreddit…
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I don't get what you're trying to say; are you criticizing that creativity can be consumed? Saying that art can't be measured to determine its value? That game developers shouldn't be payed?
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No, there's a class divide between the people that produce something (That owns the means of production) and the rest of society. That has existed for as long as the earth was round.
It's a product, an entertaining product. Can videogames be art? That's a discussion for another day, however, being it whatever you want to call it it's still a product being sold at a face value with some expectations attached to that price point. When it doesn't work, I think we can all agree that it's a bad product, independently of if it's a bad game or not.
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I preordered it. I waited for the release, then tried it, found that it worked fine for me, tested it for around 2 hours, still working fine and I was having fun. Otherwise I would have asked for a refund. 30 hours later, I'm still having a blast, and so I wrote a review on Steam. As a consumer, that's all I know, and I base my purchase on that. Like Gothemasticator said, if enough people have a different experience (which seems to be the case), then they should complain and be vocal about it. It's well within their rights.
That's how markets work. If I complained and whined even thought I'm completely satisfied, the feedback for the game would be skewed and it would no longer work as feedback.
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Probably if it wouldn't have been hyped up as the gaming equivalent of the Second Coming, less haters would be around. It is having the typical Molyneux effect, when the devs and the publisher are promising the best game ever, then the players meet reality. (Or, well, would meet it if they could start it up.)
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Did the devs hype it or was it the people and Sony?
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Both, actually, just now everyone suddenly wants to make it look like as if Sony hyped it only. The lead dev posted more than one misleading and/or false information related to the game the media and the fans picked up. Since they are a small team, they have the underdog effect and some really want to make it look like as if they were screwed over by Sony, but they are both equally responsible.
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Yeah, SONY overhyped it, but so did a dev team not grounded of reality.
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Buyer's remorse for one thing. Also the Age of Internet is providing easy ways for developers to fix bugs so consumer is willing to give them a pass for a rocky release which leads to more rocky releases.
Some people learn, others dont.
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For the majority, it has disappeared. For the rest of us like me, Ross Scott and many others don't spend a lot of money on games.
Anything above $20 or $30 for me is just too much and don't get me started on subscription based games. What is better? Paying more and playing a buggy mess on launch or pay less and get a patched, less buggy fixed version instead?
Like Ross said: "And if you HAVE to play the newest stuff well, you're being suckered into marketing."
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What are you talking about?
NMS has mixed reviews on Steam, 71 on Metacritic, many forums are criticizing the game, and Sean Murray is now a meme like Todd Howard. That is no smooth launch.
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Mixed Reveiws? 71 on Metacritic? Are those bad scores? Whatever. Most sold game this year, at a 60$ price tag. I mean, I dunno. Rome II? Batman Arkham Knight? You know, games that actually suffered from some backlash.
Also Todd Howard might be a meme, but you wait how many people pre order their umpteenth buggy shallow barely working "RPG" mess they publish.
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I'm gaming standards, yes those are not good reviews. Heck NMS started mostly negative the first day on Steam.
What's your source on most sold game this year? And NMS is getting the same attention as those games. Why else did you make this thread? To backlash like the rest.
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http://www.pcgamer.com/no-mans-sky-sales/
also NMS review rating is going up because Steam removes the reviews of people who refund the game. Really transparent practice as far as Steam is concerned.
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That's best selling on Steam, not most sold game this year. Even your source says NMS is not having a good launch which contradicts the OP.
As for the refunds, you just proved NMS technically has bad reviews on Steam, only that Steam removes reviews that were refunded.
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I'm sorry I drew the pararell Steam-> all platforms, in a site called steamgifts. I'll take into account uPlay figures next time.
The problem is that they don't have bad reveiws, they have mixed.
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Your statement is still incorrect.
You know this forums discussions can be more than just Steam right? Back when Origin/Nintendo had a humble bundle, it was posted here. Even political issues are discussed here. Just because the site is called Steamgifts doesn't mean it's exclusively only Steam related.
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I know they can, but the only way of tracking sales without the publisher's disclosure is using SteamSpy data, where those figures came from. Anyways, I don't see where the problem is with my statement. I think that generalizing Best Selling on steam to Best selling game when talking about PC is a given.
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This is where you should face reality.
It is popular to complain about Bethesda RPGs, but I, for one, keep buying them becuase I LIKE THEM. I am not acting against my own interests. I enjoy the games. I do not feel like I have wasted my money. I do not regret my purchases.
And Arkham Knight? They paid a HUGE amount in refunds and lost confidence and taking it off of sale for a good long time. They got hurt bad, and you can bet they have changed their business practice in response. They have not decided to never do pre-order sales - as you would like. Because going by the numbers, pre-orders have been a success. It would be interesting to see what they did change in response, but those things are usually internal to the company and not disclosed. Oh, well...
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It's not popular to complain about Bethesda RPGs, Bethesda developed games are a fucking disaster vanilla. That's the problem I have with them, that they rely on the community to finish and fix their games for them.
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You don't seem to be acknowledging the millions of gamers who actually disagree with you. The console versions haven't gotten the community fixes, yet millions of console players put in 80 hours or more. And only some of players use the community fixes. You can consider the bugs shameful. But millions of players consider them at worst to be amusing, with making funny videos of, but not bad enough to ruin their enjoyment of the game. You are ignoring actual consumer feedback. Positive feedback from millions of gamers.
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You are ignoring actual consumer feedback
The PS4 version's metacritic user score is at 49%, lower than the PC version's Steam ratings…
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Sorry for the confusion. We are talking about the Elder Scrolls games.
He is also ignoring the consumer feedback of NMS - which is nearly entirely negative - as he would seem to want it to be. So, I really don't know what his point is anymore.
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Ah, Elder Scrolls. Somewhat overrated, but have their own merits, especially as exploration-based dungeon crawlers. (Daggerfall could still teach a ton of things about procedurally generated dungeons to a lot of modern games and studios—including Blizzard, who tried to steal this recipe with varying success.)
Disregard my comment then, you are correct. ^^'
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The console versions of Skyrim, for example, are a joke, they barely work.
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And you'll have to face the fact that you are in a very small minority who think that. Strange, I know. But true. Most console owners of Skyrim disagree with you.
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First google link I got when searching for console skyrim bugs http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/general-discussion-30/bethesda-s-decision-to-ignore-blatant-bugs-in-skyr-1433947/ for example, I'm sure there's a million more. Consensus in that thread seems to be that the PS version of Skyrim is shit.
But hey "most" console owners disagree with me, I mean, I can produce statistics out of my ass too.
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http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/user-reviews
There are 71 posts in the forum you linked, many of those posts repeats by the same posters.
2934 positive reviews out of 3549 in the link above. It does seem that the PS3 version gets a lot more flack.
On the PC, Steam reports 24,543 playing the game right now and a 93% favorable rating from over 180000 reviews.
You, my friend, are entitled to your own opinion. But you are objectively in the minority.
Yes, there are objectively bugs - a lot of them - in Skyrim. But only a small minority of players care about them much.
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That's my problem. That it has 8 point something score when the game is ridden witih even game-breaking bugs. How is that remotely normal? Why don't people care? See, you are just further illustrating what I meant with the OP. Why a mediocre product is getting overwhelmingly good reviews?
I won't talk about PC because Bethesda already makes sure they have a lot of unpaid interns a.k.a modders who fix their games for them.
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Your perspective is limited. If you search for "Skyrim bugs" you will only be talking to people who care about the bugs. I talk to lots and lots of xbox and pc players who do not use any fan-made patches - who say, "The bugs aren't that bad. It never broke my game. They are funny. I play this game all the time. Here I made a vid of my horse walking on the ceiling. Ha haha."
The game is actually fun enough - as it is, bugs and all - for most people to play at least 80 hours and enjoy the experience.
Contrast that with the results NMS is getting - by all the numbers and reviews I have seen, the game is not playable by at least half the people who bought it. And they are up in arms about it. It sold like mad because people bought the hype. But Sony is going to pay for the bad release. Just like Warner Brothers paid for the Batman release.
So, your consumers are acting just fine.
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That's what the lizarmen and the media want you to think.
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Oh, you're one of those. All your threads make so much more sense now.
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You know I've been in your corner till now, but even from that vantage it's hard not to take that comment seriously [even with the typo], given your approach in this thread. :P
You're conflating and confusing several different issues and claiming it makes some sort of point. You're dismissing arguments that don't work within the narrow focus you have on the topic, and making snarky comments rather than work to better clarify what that precise focus is.
I'm still in your corner, so don't think I'm intending that assessment with hostility- this is just me poking you to tell you you've jumped in a bit too deep again. :)
The main issue I see is, your OP is giving a certain impression that doesn't line up with the one you want it to, and when others reply with that impression in mind, it understandably causes a confusion between you and them. And, ah, given your energetic approach to how you respond to things..
So, as to your topic:
-You're right: There's a lot of issues with how things are managed these days, and a strong component of the foundation of that is based in Steam and its negative influences on how consumers approach things or can speak freely about their impressions.
-You're sort of right, people are self-serving and blind to the larger picture- but that's a common trait, not something new or specific to gaming.
-You're wrong, that that's the sole element of what is happening here: Most people are just making calculated personal decisions without excuses or looking to the whole. It's Valve, the media, etc- even Steam review culture (which Valve has allowed to thrive off reviews based in low-brow joking and unrestrained disrespectfulness and crudity) that are shaping impressions problematically.
As far as the response.. you have to understand, people went into games like Batman:AK and Mortal KombatX with a firm understanding of what those games were like on console, the expectation that they'd be readily fixed, and an obessive fanboy/girl appeal to the franchise.
With NMS, anyone that was cautious in nature to begin with has jumped ship before it even sailed, and those with more careful viewpoints have refunded the game.
The problem here isn't people as a whole, it's that the hype drew in the kinds of people that would commit to the game in an awkward manner, and the circumstances around it are pushing that perspective.
With B:AK and MK:X, gamers felt betrayed because they had one expectation and then were given a response not meeting that expectation.
With NMS, you've a game that was built off nothing but vague hype and promises, and is still coasting on that same concept.
So the people who committed were pulled in by that, and still are trying to justify their purchase with that mentality.
In other words, it's less an issue of a shift in social consciousness or dynamics, and just a facet of how the game manipulated the market, and the less deliberation-minded and financially-unrestrained members of that market.
tl;dr version:
- Take a breath and try rephrasing your initial point instead of making silly comebacks- you know those never work for you.
If you gotta, post images of angry ponies instead- that way I'll have plenty of reason to cheer you on :D - Marketing is everything. It's why shit coffee places like Starbucks are huge, while quality coffeeshops go out of business. It's why notable indie games are niche [even games like Binding of Isaac, which are notable on sites like this, are pretty much unknown outside of it], while flashy indie games and AAA games get all the attention. Marketing determines most of public opinion and sense of appeal.
- NMS has set itself up like any good scam (or your typical politican), offering vague and confused and contradicted promises, and pushing any sort of accountability as something to be attended to in the future.
There's concrete reasons things turned out as they did, and it's not 'cause anything significant has shifted in society. Society is still a consistently fucked-up mess of stupid, short-sighted, selfish decision making. This isn't any shift to the normal patterns.
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^ Sooth here nailed it.
I mean, I think I get what you mean Mr. C, and I sympathise with your sentiment but it's hard to agree with what you actually post if you paint with such a broad brush - one that's dripping with more snark and vitriol than colour at times.
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But, thing is this crab-bucket mentality really buggers me. And, NMS is only the catalist here, I have no strong feelings towards the game one way or another, simply I just depised their marketing campaing and launch.
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If I need a three paragraph disclaimer when you're about to critizise my style, I'm definitely doing something wrong. Just sayin, just sayin.
Anyhow, I'll come later to adress the rest, gotta get to work now.
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:laugh: No, really- wasn't supposed to come across that strongly.
Just was trying to indicate that the OP was vague, and that you seemed to have jumped straight to the "burn the city down around you" part of your process without doing your usual calm replying first.
Was meant more as a playful nudge than a pointed disclaimer :P
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That looks like a panel from Straczynski's Thor run.
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Are you saying that MrCastiglia has battled nordic gods?
..y'know, that's actually not all that surprising to learn.
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So.. You're saying that Kratos is your father, and where he took on the greek gods, you're taking on the norse ones? =O
The next installment, also titled God of War, was officially announced at Sony's 2016 Electronic Entertainment Expo (E3) press conference with a gameplay trailer. The trailer showed a fully bearded Kratos, who now has a son, and Kratos is teaching the boy how to hunt. The game will take place many years after the events of God of War III and will be set in the world of Norse mythology
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It's the same old story, I don't wanna play the victim, and this is sure gonna sound like it, but I actually think that most of what I write is understood as beligerent and cocky when, in my eyes, it's just playful and irreverent.
The snarky comebacks aren't even that good, but when presented when a short sentence saying nothing, I guess I could ignore it, but well, and it's definitely easier than actually adressing the posts that make good points, thing is I tend to procrastinate with those ,and more often than not I edn up forgetting to post an answer.
and, for how jaded and cynic I sound I actually want to believe in society, in us being something more than individuals fighting for our own survival, a somehow knitted community where the concerns and problems of the people do also concer me. But whatever I think I'm rambling at this point.
I want to believe in the buying masses, no matter how many times they prove me wrong.
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With NMS, you've a game that was built off nothing but vague hype and promises, and is still coasting on that same concept.
So the people who committed were pulled in by that, and still are trying to justify their purchase with that mentality..
And here I thought I was enjoying the game. :p
Sorry, presented the phrasing from a singular perspective, didn't realize how easily that would make it to misconstrue my points on the whole.
Let me be clear: "built off nothing but vague hype and promises"- I don't mean to the exclusion of actual gameplay, I mean from the perspective of marketing, that's what is driving it [rather than, eg, franchise appeal]. The game didn't end up as many were expecting it to, based on the marketing, which is helping fuel a lot of the negative commentary on it.
for what it is / has many faults / anyone expected / etc
The primary complaints (other than the overwhelming number of criticisms on stability issues) are actually based in stating that the game is overly grindy, simplistic, and repetitive. That seems to be the emphasis presented in youtube reviews- steam reviews are too flooded with stability issue based reviews to really get a good grasp on just how large a portion of purchases actually agree with that sentiment. If MrCastiglia is correct, and Valve is deleting reviews when they provide refunds, then it becomes even more problematic to assess the truth of it.
My aim wasn't to criticize the game itself [which I don't profess to have enough personal information to do], or those who are enjoying it- but rather, to indicate that the devs have presented a very poor picture of themselves: Not delivering on their promises, contradicting their promises, and all around presenting a confusing set of expectations until finally they rushed into a massively buggy launch.
( Though it is worth noting, you're one of a minority of those I've spoken to that actually have something nice to say about the game. It's become a joke on other sites/games I frequent that the game is more notable for being bought to have an excuse to say something negative about it, than for being bought for its actual gameplay. )
So I was scammed and the fun I am getting is not real?
No. Unless you're saying you were? :P
The point of that section of the post wasn't to indicate it WAS a scam (I'd have said that outright, if it were)- but as with the rest of the post, to clarify the flaws in how the devs have presented themselves. As note above, they've given a poor impression of themselves. With them resigning everything to future updates (or noting that certain elements have been excluded from the game plans entirely), they're presenting themselves in a way that makes cautious consumers wary of duplicity (in fact, this is the very MO of many EA games we've seen come through) while at the same time making more invested/hopeful purchasers cling on with their purchase hoping for it to pay off more in the future.
( In other words, I was contrasting the way the devs portrayed themselves to the false promises and dropping of continued work that many EA devs have provided, or to politician backtalk, and indicating that some saw similarities, and thus reasons to be dubious of the devs, The negative reviews the game is getting on gameplay only emphasizes the issue. )
So whether the game can make itself appeal in a more general manner in the future, or whether the devs prove themselves to be unreliable..
There's still a lot we can't say for sure, for now, and I think a lot of people are hanging around waiting to see how that turns out, rather than committing to the game now or abandoning any interest in it completely.
As for the rest.. love it, hate it, that's your prerogative. The features that were removed over time were the ones that appealed to me, which in conjunction with the criticisms of reviews, makes the game no longer at all appealing to me, without a massive reworking of the game. That'd be true for me even if the rest of the game is completely enjoyable; no matter how good it performs there, it simply doesn't have the elements that would appeal to me.
So I don't really have a reason to care if the rest of the game is enjoyable or not. As with many other circumstances where consumers reacted poorly, the main problem isn't the game itself, but how it was presented by the devs- and that was what I attempted to address. Of course, MrCastiglia noted in the OP that he felt the game worth a refund, so I did attempt to phrase my post from that perspective, on the basis of "if what you say is true, then these are the perspectives to consider".
You don't have to be defensive with me- my point was never to criticize enjoyment of the game, but, to the contrary, to validate that those critical of the game weren't simply throwing in with the game out of a blind mob mentality:
Most people are just making calculated personal decisions without excuses or looking to the whole.
I was trying to indicate that most people are just purchasing, and sticking with the game based on their own personal considerations. Those that are sticking with it out of genuine appreciation obviously wouldn't be part of the mob mentality MrCastiglia was indicating, so I didn't feel any need to address them in the points I was making, Those who bought in to hype and that were basing their purchase on expectations of how the game could be in the future were relevant to his considerations, as I was indicating that their approach was based more in the nature of the hype, rather than in a mob mentality.
If someone truly enjoys the game, even if their purchase was based in a mob mentality to begin with, that's no longer relevant to them or their retention of the game or positive review of it.
Love it, praise it- but until the devs clear up some of those negative reviews with actual foundations in the content [versus just in misled expectations] those positive reviews are going to have a hard time showing through.
tl;dr version:
I was criticizing the devs, not the game, and presenting the commentary specifically to line up with, and redirect MrCastiglia's perspective, not as an intended slam on the game.
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HB is usually fantastic about refunds, and if you'd attempted to refund based off the stability issues, I imagine they'd have gone for it.
That said, I totally getcha- I usually buy games when they're <$3/<80% off, and more often try to hold out for <$2 or <90%.
Meanwhile, there's that rare kickstarter game I totally feel I have to back- and though I almost never buy at launch, I don't at all regret preordering Life is Strange [despite only making it through episode 2 before my old computer died to the point of no longer being able to play it].
Some games are worth the risk, and you feel satisfied with making it.
..unfortunately, sometimes it's hard to tell which those are, especially factoring in personal preferences, and for a $60 game like NMS..
Given that and the sloppy way the devs approached it, and I can appreciate why many became frustrated with it (even if your assessment of its inherent quality is one most would otherwise consider accurate).
Fable (and before that, the first Onimusha game) were both majorly hyped games that ended up feeling like short prototypes/demos of what they could have been. Good games, but fast to finish, lacking in depth, and with little to linger in your thoughts after you finished them. I can appreciate not buying into hype- though in this case, it feels more like the game didn't match the content of the hype, rather than the quality of it; so it's a bit different.
If anything, I'd compare it more to Sword Coast Legends, which ended up being [by most accounts] a good game, but was a far cry different in content than many were expecting.
Perhaps once the devs clear up the bugs affecting NMS, it'll earn the same grudging respect that SCL has- catering to those familiar with what the game actually is, rather than what they hoped it could be.
But, yeah- glad it paid off for you (especially at that buy-in). :)
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The "consumer class" has never had a conscience. This is a myth.
People always act in self-interest unless they are tricked/conditioned/indoctrinated into a society or model that convinces them to not act in self-interest (or, more likely, to temper that self-interest).
I'm American. Americans have been complaining about jobs being shipped overseas and stuff being made in Mexico/China/Indonesia/Thailand/Sri Lanka etc. for years. And then they take their fat ass to Wal-Mart, a company whose empire has been built upon squeezing the lowest prices out of distributors, which is primarily accomplished by exploiting foreign workers and the quite pragmatic lower cost of manufacturing goods overseas and shipping them here. Why? Because in the end people just want to pay the lowest price.
People do not care about someone else's experiences. They don't always care about a promise that was broken if it wasn't made to them. People care about themselves first and foremost. This has always been the case.
Capitalism and a "conscience" do not go together.
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This 100%. "Consumer class conscience" is a naive concept that never existed and goes completely against capitalism. We vote with our dollar. Couldn't have said it better.
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Just stop with the pre-orders already & wait for actual gameplay footage after release before buying. Everyone that complains about this game has theirselves to thank for this.
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Well NMS has given us 2 funny Tweets from Riker Googling, so that's good enough for me:
Riker Googling
@RikerGoogling
is playing no man's sky safer than exploring space
Riker Googling
@RikerGoogling
how to build "no man's sky" mining gun
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"iss playing no man's sky safer than exploring space"
Lol!!
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My favorite part of the NMS launch has been all of the hot takes from people that have no idea how game development works.
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Not long ago i watched a video where they commented the percent of cash invested in some AAA games that went to advertising. Most spend only 10 to 40% in actually developing a game. Im guessing what we are experiencing now is all that investment in advertising doing what it is suposed to do, making people buy games no matter how lame they are. The new bussiness model goes like that... they dont make good games, they just convince you they are. From all the generations of video games i played, this one feels the worse. I will only buy games when i feel the company is beeing honest, as i always did, and i will be waiting for those beeing exploited to learn their lesson so we can all have a decent video game industry. I dont think theres a class conscience, just individuals that take longer than others to realize they are beeing scammed.
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It's all in the same wagon as dlc's, kickstarting, season's pass, and preordering. All promises based on hype. Game industry has learnt a lot about marketing tactics used by politicians. And we, as in politics, didn't learn a shit.
edit. invalid statement about money refund
Without the hype-money this companies receive they wouldn't even dare to deliver the turds they present us as games because they couldn't simply afford the process. All this hype vibe feels so much to me like financial fantasy money. All a beautiful marketing bubble ready to explode into the scam they really are.
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And for the people saying that they preorder because they have steam refund, well, you just introduced $60 real ca$h money and traded it for $60 steam monopoly money. Well, maybe you will say that you were going to buy games anyway so it will somehow "serve"..
When you refund a game on steam you can get the money back on whatever you used to purchase it with. When I buy a game with my Visa card and choose to refund it, I can choose betwen getting the money in my steam wallet or back on my bank account.
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Oh I didn't knew they had real money refund. My statement is invalid.
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Yeah, the only thing is if you get Steam cash the refund is instant, and if not your funds might be on hold for a while (bank, card, whatever) I'm still waiting for my thirty Rimworld bucks, so VISA, whenever you feel like.
(The game is not bad, my budgeting is)
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since people love to identify with brands/names/groups, they get fanaticized and defend what they like without reasoning. I suppose it's the same with haters that bash everything constantly.
applies to games/sports/religion/clothes/comics/movies/etc.x9999
nms had a bad release just for the stupid cpu compatibility issue (I think there's also a problem with opengl?). if it weren't for that the only remaining issue is gameplay, which is troubling because marketing was terrible and people bought a product without knowing what they would get...
in any case, I would put 90% of the blame on people preordering it (i did for a gift).
keep giving money to devs before a product is released/completed and you will just encourage them to do it again, and in some cases, to try more cheeky stuff.
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I understand that, I mean, I'm a groupie myself of several things (Bands, whatever, you name it) but if I singer I like puts out a bad product, I have no problem of saying it, there's nothing wrong with not liking something anymore.
I guess being a fanboy of something gives you a sense of purpose, of belonging, and seeing the lenghts the gaming community (amongst others) takes it (death threats and so on) I fear we might have passed the turning point.
I agree completely with your last paragraph, if this model of selling smoke and mirrors and releasing half baked games (Not in NMS,gameplay seems to be good at least) keeps giving benefits, why change? and why not see how far we can take it. Let's see how stupid the consumer is. Because with these practices that's what they are doing, laughing at us.
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they are already doing it, first with preordered DLC (preorder a season pass, wth? i don't even know what's in those DLCs!).
and hitman? episodic content :| you don't even get a clue of what's going to be in the game...
i wonder what's the next step?
release fallout 5 + season pass for just $90 (because they can't increase the $60 price, so now they cut all the content and put it in DLCs, how convenient)
+
fallout 6 preprepreorder deluxe kickstarter backer founder edition $120, to be released in 2026
yay, more people preordering *facepalm*
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Not sure what are you suggesting consumers should have done differently here - avoid buying the game if the initial feedback (from other buyers) is bad? avoid complaining? Refrain from buying the next game from the same developer/distributor?
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Not defending shady bussiness practices, not becoming emotionally invested in games and not buying hype trains is what the community should do IMO (not only regarding NMS, this is an example, but any other game)
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Is it impossible that people defend a game because overall they consider it to be good, think it's worth their money and consider its shortcomings to be insignificant to them?
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No it's not. But I don't know what that has to do with what I ask of people.
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It has to do with you asking people to not defend a faulty game, while they (at least some of them) don't see it as faulty.
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let's say i like the game (i do, actually). and you have framerate drops down to 10fps. is it reasonable to tell you that your complaint on the forum is bullshit, because the game is good? doesn't make sense, right? but that's what happens (not just with this game). if i like the game gameplay-wise, i can defend the gameplay. instead people who like /love/worship the game attack others for posting their problems ("it's your own fault, you probably have a potato machine!"). that is what i have a problem with.
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Disclaimer: I haven't played No Man's Sky at all, I'm talking about a hypothetical game here until the third paragraph.
I don't quite understand the attitude of "You aren't allowed to support it because it doesn't work for some people" that you seem to want us to have here. If a game works for me and I enjoy playing it, it seems extremely unfair for me to give it a negative review "Because it doesn't work for my friend Steve" unless I was really excited to do co-op with Steve. Steve should absolutely give it a negative review, but I can only base my opinion of a game on my own experience. And if I like it, my opinion is going to be positive.
I'm not going to go out and tell people with negative reviews that they're wrong or whatever, but by that same token, those people's bad experience doesn't change the fact that I had a good one. It's not irresponsible of me as a gamer to enjoy a game that a lot of people have issues with. What would be irresponsible is to jump on the negative hype train and make the problem look bigger than it is. The people having problems are just as capable of speaking for themselves as I am.
And based on all the bad press No Man's Sky is getting, I think you're wrong. People are pissed, the media has picked up on it, and the game's popularity is tanking by the day. Gamers aren't getting trampled on as a class and overrun with garbage in this particular case. Sure, some people are defending the game, but you seem to be forgetting that those people also enjoy the game. Some people are taking it too far (on both sides), but that's the nature of the internet. Your hotel analogy is valid, but you leave out the fact that those problems are uncommon and there are forms of recourse - demanding refunds and leaving bad reviews.
In short, I'm not sure why people who legitimately enjoyed a game should be asked to lie about their experience and denounce it as part of a show of "gamer unity." If reviews on a game are 80% positive, should the other 20% give up their negative opinions for unity as well?
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"It's a small team" "It's an indie game"
Those are indeed no reasons to defend a game. However you seem to forget that there are people that actually like the game and defend it for that reason.
You might say, "Oh, but it works fine for me" "But I wasn't interested on MP anyways" or any other variation. That's freaking counter productive to us as a group of people partaking on the same hobby.
It might not be in the best interest of the "group," but why would I as consumer care? I buy games for myself to enjoy, not for others. If I enjoy a game, even if others don't or think it's terrible, I buy it and it's justified for me. I agree that the mentioned quotes are no arguments against promises they failed to deliver though.
You are willingly renouncing to the right of receiving what you paid for.
What? That makes no sense. As I said above, I buy to enjoy the game. If it doesn't work, I contact support and try to make it work. If it still doesn't work, I refund. How do I renounce my right to receive what I paid for? That's just an idiotic statement...
that doesn't change launch was a fucking mess and this game is not receiving way enough backlash as it should
It's just your opinion it should get more backlash. There are plenty of people that think otherwise (and not because they are fanboys but because they genuinly think the game is good).
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No it's not an idiotic statement, you're foregoing your rights, you're jeopardizing them, with every time a shoddy product launches and it's a commercial sucess, or some developer/publisher banks on the naïvety of the general gamer, games are getting worse.
Can't give a hand or they'll take the arm too.
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+1
Loving the hell out of it so far myself too, does feel like we're two of only eight people that like it xD
That hub generates some hilarious stuff late at night though, but it does worry me the number of legit topics that're being deleted :/
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battlefield 4 was expensive and broken for 1 year
it was unplayable when it came out
glitches and crashes persisted over the year
battlefield fans still had the nerve to say that it was better than cod
Huh. If we would substitute it to Destiny, it would be almost spot-on… minus the crashes.
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Looking back at this past week and the remarkably smooth launch NMS has had, I must admit I am concerned. I am deeply concerned.
Why? You might ask. Because, us, "gamers", are one of the most laughable consumer masses ever to exist, maybe excluding DC movies fanboys.
Why would I call myself and many ofthers that, tho. It's simple, it's simply pathetic to see people defend and become emotionally invested in a product. Swinging back and forth a never-ed¡nding list of excuses for any problems a game (NMS in this case, there's COUNTLESS of other examples out there, tho) might have on launch.
That's outright stupid. No matter what the scope of the project is, how many people the team has, for how long ti's been on development, what's the price point or anything. Circumstances does not matter when, at launch, you get an unfinished, buggy product.
You might say, "Oh, but it works fine for me" "But I wasn't interested on MP anyways" or any other variation. That's freaking counter productive to us as a group of people partaking on the same hobby.
Why? Because, let's be honest. Let's say one in three people can't run the game properly. Would you go to a Hotel where you got 1 in 3 chance of being placed in a windwoless, tick-filled, leaking, stinky room?
You wouldn't right? It's common sense. Why do you defend then, buying a 60$ product in the off chance that it does work for you. I think that's completely unnaceptable. You are willingly renouncing to the right of receiving what you paid for.
Why does anyonw have to step up to defend shitty business practices, such as the marketing camaping, the PC port, the price point or whatever. It doesn't matter how you justify them "It's a small team" "It's an indie game" I does not matter. In the past smaller teams have managed to launch sucessfull, polished, reasonably priced games. Be it Stardew Valley or Rimworld to name a recent few, or I dunno, The Binding of Isaac, Thomas Was Alone, I dunno, I mean there's literally a thousand indie titles you can choose from.
Anyways, this is my rant, thans if you stuck till the end. One thing tho, don't misconstrue this as me denying you being able to enjoy nms. You can enjoy whatever the fuck you want, that doesn't change launch was a fucking mess and this game is not receiving way enough backlash as it should, just because it's marketing campaing.
I beg you, just try to see behind corporate and marketing PR empty statements, think as a consumer, figh for your fucking rights as one.
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