I'm suuuuuuuuure it's fraud, not wanting to get more money, and removing the option for people to get keys without Valve's cut with trading.
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Don't blame you for having a cynical eye but doesn't making them non-marketable effectively cut themselves out of what was previously a secondary revenue stream?
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Well, as long as they aren't used, keys on the market can still be traded, so possibly, the worth of a tradable key might go up in the long run as people who have no clue 'wastes' them thus reducing the amount of tradable ones.
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Marketable keys should go up in value, that's true. However, there's a limit to that logic. It doesn't make any sense for them to exceed the value of new keys that can be purchased directly from Valve.
So, I'd expect both types of keys to end up at the same price point. Marketable keys have run slightly cheaper in the past, something like 10-20% cheaper than buying a key from Valve.
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Well, they could. Paying for the fact they can be traded is possible, you simply cannot buy from Steam anymore then even if Market is more expensive. Unless every trader says no to keys at the same time, there will always be people willing to save time and buy off market to 'quickly' trade.
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The market ones just get traded amongst people. While that does give 20% per transaction thats less cut for Valve than a full new key purchase.
(I guess it is nice for Valve to get a bunch of key purchases and following market sales to play their Summer sale and only after block them as "yeah, only used in fraud")
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Yes but is there really that much difference between keys originally bought from Valve being resold on the market (in many cases this may have been their purpose to begin with) vs someone making a direct key purchase of their own? Either way the key(s) were originally sourced from Valve, and it's not like a pre-owned game sale for example where the item in question can have been used by multiple people. Also in the case of keys bought/sold on the market they might even change hands multiple times, so now that additional cut is multiplied and goes on top of what was originally paid for the item.
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One gives Valve 20% of value (lower than store), other gives Valve 100% of value. You can see which one corporations prefer you buy.
I assume that yes, market-trade and cut was part of the original plan but with many of the transactions happening outside that, with trading and 3rd partysites, they want to stop that and up their cut.
Yeah, but to get the same money from a buyer vs. new you need 5 transactions (all accounting they are priced the same, while they're always lower cause otherwise why would a buyer bother). And all of these through the market, not trading.
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So let's say I am a CS:GO player and I want to get a few keys to use in the game. Are you saying that if I buy them from the market that Valve only receives 20% of their total value in the end? What happened to the amount that was paid when they were sourced from Valve? Did it vanish into thin air? Were they free? Valve isn't losing out on a sale just because someone may buy from the market as opposed to a direct purchase. They can still only be used once. And whatever stock of keys there is on the market is not just going to sit there unsold. It seems to me like Valve gets their full value for them either way and in the case of the market even an additional cut on top of the original sale, which they now lose out on by making them non-marketable.
Unless there was regional pricing on keys and no region restriction on them for market sales then I don't see how this benefits Valve from a monetary standpoint aside from reducing the cost of dealing with fraud and other illegal activities involving keys.
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Well, look at this. If Player A buys a new key, then resells it on the market Valve gets 120% for the key. If they sell Player A a key and Player B a key they make 200%. In your example yes, Valve would see 80% less money if you buy on the market compared to ingame. But most don't even do that and use trading with a 3rd party site. This wont be the first change to combat such site's use. It doesn't matter that they made more than the one purchase on the first key, getting a full sale on the second rather than a part makes it better for Valve financially. Past purchases do not count for current profit after all, that's all in the past.
So it's win/win all around financially for Valve. More sales for full price is more money, higher marketprice on existing keys (since limited supply now) is more money. Forcing people in the future to pay the full price instead of getting a key off a 3rd party trader = profit.
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Basically what you are saying is that Valve will somehow sell more keys if players buy from them directly but I don't agree. What drives the volume of keys being moved (and by extension new key purchases) is the need/demand of the players consuming them, so whether those keys come to the players directly from Valve or indirectly via the market it matters not. They were all originally direct sales anyway.
higher marketprice on existing keys (since limited supply now) is more money.
On each individual sale of what remains on the market until they are gone, yes. However overall it is not, and comparatively speaking they lose far more than that by discontinuing keys sales on the market altogether and never taking that 20% cut of all sales ever again. In mathematical terms this is the comparison of a finite number to an infinite one.
Forcing people in the future to pay the full price instead of getting a key off a 3rd party trader = profit.
Our discussion only pertained to market sales so trading via the Steam inventory system is a bit of a different animal. However if there was a large enough volume of keys being purchased by resellers at a big discount somehow and then being resold in a way that bypasses the market then okay, but it would have to be significant enough to outweigh the 20% cut Valve would pull in from the market sales.
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Yes, but past sales do not make current income. Valve sold millions of copies of Half-Life 2 but that money isn't current profit. Just because something was sold in the past doesn't make it as valid an income as a new sale. And the large amount of keys on the market, cheaper than ingame make it very foolish for people to buy full-price and thus give Valve the largest cut.
Again, it's the comparrison of 2 sales, one being 100%, the second at the market being 20%. Sure it gives 120% for one key, but if the second user also bought direct from Valve it was 200% of sales. These secondhand sales might garner additional income, but if it fully replaces full sales that doesn't help as much. Especially if by trading they can even circumvent the cut, no way that happens with direct purchase.
Why would the discussion be limited as such? They restrict market and trading, so both methods are valid for discussion. One gives atleast a small sum to Valve, the other nothing. They obviously wanted the marketoption to be the common one, but as time went on with 3rd party trading sites and bots trading takes the upper-hand and Valve has been combatting it ever since. So it's extremely valid for this discussion.
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Every key was bought once, and only once. Not making them tradable cuts off any possible market income. This actually lowers Valve's income.
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They wont get a cut if the financial trading happens outside of Steam, or keys are traded for a high-value item that could otherwise go through the market. This would force people who got keys like that to buy them.
Every key sold is equal to 5 markettransactions (if off equal price, which wont happen), and even with rampant trading I doubt each key goes through the market that often, more-so being traded without cut.
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people who got keys
Only new, in-game bought keys are affected, market-bought is not. Keys as currencies are barely used to open boxes, they don't leave the trading scene really.
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Are you sure people aren't rather buying the keys they want to open lootboxes with for $1.7 from 3rd party sites rather than paying $2.5 in-game? People with extra wallet of course prefer spending it, but they usually also sell their keys on 3rd party sites to get some real money out of it.
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I know you're skeptical, but this is legit. Steam keys can be used for money laundering, and steam has grown big enough to get noticed by financial regulators. It's either this, or creating bank-level anti-money laundering facilities.
While I don't know the economics, I don't think it'll make a noticeable improvement to Valve's bottom line. Traded keys have been paid for, so whether a person uses a purchased key or a traded key, Valve earns the same. But for a key that's bought and resold several times before it's been used, Valve also gets a cut each time it's sold/resold.
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They wanted to cut down the 3rd party sites allowing to buy keys much cheaper and sell them for real money without Valve getting a cut. The international fraud doesn't want to buy keys in-game and then sell for Steam wallet on market.
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Yes, but this has been a thing of all times, like stolen credit cards being used to buy massive amount of keys and dump them on g2a to get a quick buck.
But much like the "gifting changes" I think it's meant to fight traders and re-sellers more than organised launderers. It's a good excuse of course, like how the gifting changes where to 'make things easier' (by doing the exact opposite of that).
Indeed, but that's for currently sold keys. That are circulated. They want to make people get new keys at full price. It's like the second-hand market that game publishers hate. Yeah their copy did ONCE sell, but then nothing, while they could make the full amount when they weren't offered the alternative. Slight chance is Valve does get a cut, but it's 1/5th the price (so wanting to sell full price is still better) and requires users to use the market, not trade them circumventing their cut, potentially doing the financial transaction off-site, making Valve nothing.
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If Valve wanted to close down the secondary market, they could do so immediately. The trading market makes steam a lot of money, but the bigger steam grows, the more attention they'll get. Implementing proper anti-money laundering protocols is very expensive, and likely to turn away a lot of consumers, but if they don't do that, then they run the risk of getting shut down by regulators. So instead they need to limit the market.
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word. especially with steam's past they have to be very careful with fraud. i personally enjoy how they improved their security (could have happened a lot quicker, but still they did). just thinking of the old days when i had to write support regularly, telling them my original Counter Strike key to get my account back
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Why even bother introducing reality into a culture that revolves around a falling sky every time something they don't like happens?
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well, this is a website dedicated to escaping from reality
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Bravo, well said. This bit of wisdom is one of the most honest things I have ever heard spoken here. It's refreshing when someone acknowledges that this a place with its own quirks, eccentricities, and skewed perspective that often resides inside its own bubble.
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Clearly trading is more important than fighting large scale criminal activity.
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Clearly trading money is more important than fighting large scale criminal activity.
Congrats, you just described every single corporation ever. But good job on your "reality" that Valve actually does things for the reason they state. How is that 'easier gifting' working out for you?
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You're so insistent that your explanation is the only explanation, and that it cannot possibly be any other way, that it's pointless to discuss anything with you, even when someone like Dingbat lays it all out for you.
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I mean, we've seen several changes already that Valve explained are for X but everyone knows is Y. As mentioned, the gifting change.
But sure, let's stop discussing... if you would just stop leaving these sarcastic posts on my posts we wouldn't even need to do this. Ironic, eh? Always conviently not to me but the person I am in discussion in so I might not notice.
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I wasn't being sarcastic. I was letting him know he is wasting his time with you and your conspiracy theories.
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Valve is a corporation that wants to make profit = CONSPIRACY THEORIST
Keep going, keep going
Also, I keep asking you how gifting became easier with their "we make gifting easier" changes, but you never answer that. Curious, ain't that? Wonder why that is... it's a real mystery.
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It's not my problem that you don't understand how fraudulent activity on a large scale could affect a company like Valve.
Dingbat has already explained that bit to you, and Shadowen has already explained how Valve stands to lose money.
And, since you insist
How is that 'easier gifting' working out for you?
It's working just fine, and it ensures that the publishers and developers get (edit: more of their due revenue, since there are still ways to exploit it) their due revenue rather than everyone buying cheap copies from resellers in lower priced regions. But hey, fuck the people making the games, right?
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So you admit that the "easier to gift" was infact really about combating 3rd party traders?
Yet still insist to trust Valve at this instance "cause they said so". Seems contradictive. Please explain your disrepency.
And I do understand, but that doesn't mean I will always believe a given "reason", especially from a company that's bent that so many times already. You can only swallow so many "we did this to fight bad factors" before you go "Maybe actually hire people and check the games rather than solve everything with algorithms?"
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So you admit that the "easier to gift" was infact really about combating 3rd party traders?
You're reading things I did not say into what I said. I clearly said "and."
And I do understand, but that doesn't mean I will always believe a given "reason"
You posted your initial comment two minutes after the OP posted this topic. Tell me how much thought you actually gave the topic before jumping to your conclusion? Have you even bothered to do any additional reading into the subject to know the potential scale of fraudulent activity? It appears to me that you're so dead set against anything Valve does or says that you refuse immediately to see any good that can come from it, or any possible reason other than your own for them doing it.
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Well, this isn't the first change to CS:GO (and TF2) they made, so it's not like there wasn't a former precident for thinking about this change.
There's been tons of fraudulent activities on Steam (like stolen games, artwork, keys etc. etc. etc.) so no this wasn't a first introduction to the concept of that being a thing.
And I have read a lot about the potential scale of 3rd party trading (and slightly related; second-hand market sales of games, although that doesn't affect Steam the numbers are interesting for this case).
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In other words, you posted your knee-jerk reaction.
Missing the forest for the trees.
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In other words, you believe every PR spin ever.
Enjoy that "Pride and Accomplishment" I suppose.
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In other words, you believe every PR spin ever.
Incorrect. I simply acknowledge the possibility and likelihood of there being large-scale fraud rings that could be moving money around using Valve's virtual currency. I also acknowledge that it's much easier to limit the movement of that money than it would be to implement anti-fraud measures that could really inconvenience potential customers or land Valve in some serious hot water if it could be proven they knew about such criminal activity and did nothing to quell it.
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I've learned that a lot of people are obtuse. They come up with a rationale that verifies their expectation, and once they come up with the rationale, no matter how flawed, they stick with it.
I generally believe that that greed, self-interest, and/or stupidity are usually a sufficient basis to figure out a logical explanation, and that simpler answers are more likely than complex ones
But I also have a background in business & finance, which includes a more than rudimentary understanding of anti-money laundering, fraud prevention, and such (not to mention game theory, anti-competitive practices, and anti-monopoly laws). And that background provides me with knowledge that's certainly helpful in finding the right explanation.
In this case, Valve's business is to provide a market for games. And they're central to the secondary market, from which they also make a profit. Barring outside pressure, they could take a hands-off approach and just rake in the money (which is mostly what they've been doing). But they've been getting pressure from publishers about the secondary market (which, btw, is another reason publishers are so happy to have Epic exclusives), they've already gotten pressure from the IRS about trading (which is why some heavy-volume traders in the US have been asked for more personal information), and they've probably been asked about money laundering by the appropriate authorities. I personally have friends who work for FinCEN (Financial Crimes Enforcement Network), who I know are gamers; while I wouldn't dream about asking them what they're investigating, just knowing that people who investigate and prosecute money laundering for a living are familiar with Steam and its trading network means I can connect the dots pretty easily; remember, gamers are everywhere
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But I also have a background in business & finance
That's actually what I went to school for, though I ended up in an entirely different career, so I get where you're coming from. I actually thought you meant to reply to someone else at first, but, after a moment's thought, I understand why you chose to reply to me.
TLDR: Valve's got enough money moving through their system and using their virtual items as currency that they're bound to eventually attract the attention of the government (and it's likely they already have) if they aren't sure those transactions are legit. It could very much become a world of shit for them if they don't take preventative action while knowing full well those transactions are taking place.
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Barring outside pressure being lazy is pretty much Valve's MO.
Just give them $100 for Steam Access and if it's something bad they'll just ban it later, no need to check initially.
They are fully re-actionary (see also achiev games and trading card games).
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Yet also dismiss the presence of large and active bots and third-party trading sites that Valve has combatted for YEARS.
Want your cake and eat it too I suppose.
I suppose it's just a lucky coincidence your method against fraud just happens to harm this too, again. Luuucky.
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your method against fraud
You caught me. I'm secretly working with Valve in a world-wide effort to keep you from trading. Our previous efforts to stop you from selling cards by enabling 2FA were successful, so we thought we'd take extra measures to get you to stop posting anime titty pics on the Steam feed by driving you out entirely.
Boys, we can wrap it up. He's onto us! Shred the hard drives, tie up the loose ends!
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But you love those, you were outed as pervert!
(Also you can trade about 10 items without sgma per day now. Look, improvements!)
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I can trade as many items per day as I like, but it's probably because of my secret association with the Valve underground network.
We're everywhere, Hassat, and we're watching you! :D
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I know, the Steam Group Machiavellian Alliance (or SGMA for short).
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Why even bother introducing reality into a culture that revolves around a falling sky every time something they don't like happens?
lol, this is gold.
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I'm not sure if I said it already, but since I'm here ... welcome back, Doc.
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I think it's great. I got sick of people offering keys for games when I specifically said not to offer them. So much so I deleted my Steamtrades account.
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there is very small legitimate users who use those keys for trading since its dead anyway, nothing really changes for simple user.
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really? what replaced cratekeys as a steam market currency?
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Finally we're moving closer to Epic Launcher from Valve! It's a new trend in 10-20th - just bland launcher to launch games only
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no, it means less people using a gaming platform as a place to make profits.
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Selling something useless and buying something good after doesn't mean making regular profits ;-)
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CSGO/TF2 Keys were also a means to sell leftover bundle games and buy something nice for it without the risk of having a paypal transaction with a stranger. Not all trading is for profit. That being said, I don't see a problem if someone is making profit through trading.
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sell leftover bundle games and buy something nice for it
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yes, trading stuff you don't want to get something you like.
just like people selling 10.000 cards > buying csgo keys > selling them in the market > and later buying cyberpunk from the steam store.
the very definition of profit. 👍
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That sounds like the opposite of profit to me. Replace selling them in the market with selling on 3rd party sites for real money and later buying Cyberpunk from G2A maybe. You could just sell the cards on Steam and buy games with that, no need to involve keys for that.
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if you don't use a bot to list them you are not going to want to list 10k cards on the market. steam makes listing that many item painful as all hell.
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A script that everyone already uses if they use the market you mean?
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i'm just saying your not doing that by hand ;)
also those 1 cent (+2cent steam profit) sometimes take a bit to sell as you wait for the 70billion card ahead of you to sell.
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So they do, but that just means a steady trickle of wallet which for example I'm enjoying after Gaben decided to ruin crafting badges. And plenty of cards sell for more than the minimum.
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i market anything i can get 5cent+ for. the rest i swap with others until i get a complete badge then i hoard it. i'm hoarding 30+ badges from cards and if next sale does not give anything for crafting again they are all going on the market/trade.
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Profit would be if you gain something. Many people just trade something they don't need for something of equal value. That's what I meant. No profit in that.
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Well you do gain something - you gain the "something you do want".
It's called barter. Instead of receiving money for an item you don't want, to receive a different item or service. But it still has value.
For example if you give a house to a politician in exchange for him helping you, it's still a bribe. Even though no money changed hands between you two.
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Sure, but if you exchange something of equal value, there is no profit. Profit is revenue minus expenses. If those are equal (= you get a game of equal value for your's), then the profit is 0.
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Profit is revenue minus expenses.
That's only one definition of the word, and not even the first according to Merriam-Webster
prof·it | \ ˈprä-fət \
Definition of profit (Entry 1 of 2)
1: a valuable return
TLDR: Very few people trade without profiting from it, either value-wise or monetarily. Ideally, you both "profit" in one way or another.
Edit: To be fair, and to get back on point, this change is about those employing credit fraud to profit monetarily from Steam.
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Does it really matter if there is one of many definitions that theoretically does not involve winnings? Am I wrong in saying that profit generally means you gain more than you had before the transaction? I don't think so. When someone says he makes profit, the answer is usually not "ah, so you're exchanging items for equal value". ;)
(sorry for late answer...)
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I get what you're saying (you're tying trades to monetary value alone to define the word "profit"). However, that gain/value aren't tied strictly to monetary value is why you might sometimes be tempted to trade a game of higher monetary value for one of lower monetary value (that you'd like to own). But that's neither here nor there, and it's all irrelevant as an argument to what Mully stated.
So, back to the point --
it means less people using a gaming platform as a place to make profits.
If her statement is taken at face value, she's 100% correct -- Valve has stated they made these changes so that credit fraud rings couldn't profit (or at least not as easily) from Steam -- so yes, less (should be "fewer") people using a gaming platform as a place to make profits. Illegal profits on top of that.
good, they should remove the market next.
She's actually on point here as well, whether intended or not (and whether or not I like the idea of them removing the market). Credit fraud rings could very well move on to use another "currency" to move their ill-gotten gains around. The effects on the average trader are side effects from dealing with the larger issue. It's pretty clear (to me, at least) that Valve is going to have to keep a much closer eye on the marketplace and the goings-on there to avoid much larger issues involving much larger sums of money than incidental traders are moving around.
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I don't think we're eqipped to even talk about this in an informed manner, to be honest. We would have to have to statistics on this. I, as you can probably tell, have a trading history and therefore am sympathic to traders (even though I barely do it anymore).
Someone else (like maybe Mully) might be thinking purely about actual fraud and people profiting from others in an unfair manner (which is what I believe she despises about trading - the idea that someone exploits certain sales or promotions in order to profit off of beginner traders and basically rip them off, instead of just doing fair 1:1 trades). We're all leaning to one side or another.
But without actual numbers it's hard to accurately assess the situation. How many of the market transactions are actually for money laundering or fraud or whatever? Is it a substantial number? Or is it perhaps not? CSGO keys (and similar items) have the potential to enable criminal behavior. No doubt about that. But they also give a certain security to honest traders. They remove the necessity to use Paypal or similar services for your trades (which have the risk of chargebacks). We shouldn't only look at the potential negative side of key trading, but also on the positive one.
The question is, how many trades are actually legit and how many involve some kind of fraud? I would argue if the fraud-based part of the system is minimal, it still has a right to exist. Same like we drive in cars, accepting the risk of an accident, because the benefit is worth it. If, for instance, the fraud-based transactions are 0.1% or less, it might be acceptable overall. Because trading happens. No matter what. Valve can't stop that. And CSGO/TF2 keys are a nice way of preventing chargebacks. I have actually been the victim once. Must have been like 5 years ago or more. A guy made a chargeback over 35$. I was on vacation during the time it happened, so I didn't know about it and didn't react (and I believe without proof of delivery there wasn't even a way I could have reacted successfully). So the money was gone. CSGO keys would have made that impossible. So, again, the big question is how much of a problem is fraud really? Pretty sure we will never know. ;)
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At this point, nearly all key purchases that end up being traded or sold on the marketplace are believed to be fraud-sourced.
https://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2019/10/26113/
That leads me to believe it's a substantial number, even if it's not as large as they're saying.
In other words, you've likely traded CSGO keys that were obtained illegally if you've done a decent amount of trading. I don't believe I need to explain the problems that could arise from trading stolen goods, or the liability Valve would be taking on by allowing it to continue.
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That leads me to believe it's a substantial number, even if it's not as large as they're saying.
How does it do that? That's the link in the OP. No numbers there. They even say "most key trades we observed were between legitimate customers". Then they continue to say that "nearly all key purchases that end up being traded or sold on the marketplace are believed to be fraud-sourced", which kind of contradicts the first statement and is also really vague. I would like to know how they got to that assessment. This blog post doesn't really convince me of anything, to be honest.
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They even say "most key trades we observed were between legitimate customers".
In the past is the operative phrase you left out (along with completely removing it from context).
In the past, most key trades we observed were between legitimate customers.
However, worldwide fraud networks have recently ...
There's no contradiction at all.
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You're right, I kind of misunderstood the post. They indeed indicate that there has been a shift and that most transactions might not be between legitimate users anymore. Still, this is a very vague statement and without more detailed information I have my doubts about the severity of the problem.
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10.000 cards > buying csgo keys > selling them in the market > and later buying cyberpunk from the steam store
Why exactly are keys part of this obviously non-sequitor that depends on the market existing, not CS:GO keys?
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I'm not really in the loop but there was a 7 day trade hold on keys and that upset the trading economy a bit.
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That mattered only for beginners. Experienced traders would usually go to a key seller they trust and buy keys which were tradable immediately. Unless I missed something and they changed that as well. Haven't bought any keys in at least a year or two.
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when Valve stopped having giftable copies as inventory items, trading took a huge hit
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if valve backed trades and didnt push traders into back allies they wouldnt have needed to do this.
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I'm not entirely sure what you're saying,but it doesn't make sense.
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they should have made a more open trade system but its not worth going into detail because these companies dont see items YOU purchased with YOUR money as your property because they are digital. this needs to be addressed before we ever get a decent trading system. just look at how they cry about gray market keys instead of the real issue of credit card fraud. that this update is another casualty of.
personally i feel steam should give gifts back but lock them for 1-2 months though allow anything to be added to the account.
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that's because you didn't buy an item, you bought a license to play a game. And the grey market is not just about credit card fraud, it also is about not being able to control the price of their product.
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dont sell it for $1 problem solved. i get these people are devs and may not have understood these things but what they want is call market manipulation. most countries have laws against such things for a reason.
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Actually a change wouldnt be bad which allows picking a curator offer games only by those users who were eligible to pick that game when the game was offered.
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Next are bundles if humble doesnt find a way to stop sending keys that are being sold on grey markets.
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that would actually be real easy - they'd have to stop sending keys and instead link to a buyer's account and gift the games directly to the buyers
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Irony being of course Humble (and Indiegala) did EXACTLY THAT till Valve discontinuid the system for security reasons or something.
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Yes but that will create another problem, If buyers have a few of those games they need to find a way to please them otherwise humble will avoid rebundling any game fearing those lost sales.
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Disable gifts to inventory
Disable trading and selling keys
Disable market
Disable Steam
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not like it affects regular users, only bad to those like you who doing trading as a second job.
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So as you see it, the market (buying/selling/trading) is the only reason to use Steam. correct?
There is no other reason whatsoever.
You cannot think of a single reason to have Steam installed other than trading.
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Am not gamer... i play time from time something with friends, thats all. Someone love to look on moving images all days, someone trading, cant see any prob in that for what who using Steam, isnt that right?.
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See, the thing is... Steam us a game PLAYING platform, not a game trading platform.
Sure it provides some trading (and also other) services, because people playing games find it fun...
But it's not a trading platform at heart.
It can stop trading altogether (or curating, or forums, or any other periferal service it provides) and nothing will change. Steam will still remain the same gaming platform it is.
So while you personally don't find Steam interesting without trading (btw,I 'm sure there are plenty of other trading platforms you can use), 99.9% of Steam users will continue using it for it's main feature: ability to buy, install and play games.
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Of course thats point of Steam, i didnt said it isnt.
But in the same time trading is part of Steam, they offer trade offers, market etc itself.
If i skip all trading features of Steam yes its only launcher and chat for me personally.
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Sorry, maybe I misunderstood what you wrote.
You wrote:
Disable gifts to inventory
Disable trading and selling keys
Disable market
Disable Steam
I thought you meant that once Steam disables market it has no point in existing and will shut down all of Steam.
If you meant YOU PERSONALLY will not use Steam anymore if there is no market, I guess you're right.
You would know better than me.
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I meant how it looks for me, Steam more and more disabling some of their features or "how it works" system.
When Steam disable most of "extra" features then itll be just launcher i need to start game sometimes :D but nwm, Steam have alot of money from trading and skins and so, if they want disable it.. feel free to do it.
My original post was some kind of "satire" they still disable something and looks like they disable Steam itself soon :D
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I've never buy/sell/trade keys.
It doesn't make sense to me that fraudulent users would sell their keys for Steam Wallet which is stuck on steam vs real world currency on 3rd party sites.
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money laundering - steam keys are nearly untraceable, and there are people who will buy/sell keys for real world currency using e.g. paypal. The price of keys using such currency is about 10%-20% lower than buying directly from steam, so the buyer gets a deal while the seller gets to cash out
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That was expected and I predicted it years ago, since they started putting region locks to games. I predicted every change they did to harm trading in the name of "safety". It was obvious. Their aim, with almost all of the changes they made, was always to stop trading. Anyway, at least my current keys aren't affected and their prices are rising.
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what do you predict what is going to happen? Wil the tradable keys "consumed" (used for cases opening) or remain circulating as a grey economy alternate currency?
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The tradable csgo keys will eventually disappear. If you have some, wait till their price rises a bit before you sell them. The tf2 keys will be used as a currency for some time, till they also become unmarketable and untradable. They will try to eradicate any "trading currency" that is going to appear. But, after that, they will try to do something about the steam keys (they have already done something about them in the past, but it won't be enough for them).
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They will try to eradicate any "trading currency" that is going to appear.
Then they will have to remove the market as a whole because you can use anything as a trading currency, even trading cards for example.
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Well, it's kinda hard to use trading cards to buy an AAA game. xD But, if they want, they may implement some changes in trading cards too.
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before the update not many keys that were used in trading were used to open cases, they just move around user to user, and now that this are limited maybe less are gonna be used, this are perfect for low tier trading, if valve wants to eradicate any "trading currency" then they have to make every item not tradable, traders already use other estable csgo items or arcanas
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Not really. Keys aren't going to have a fixed price anymore. And they'll slowly disappear, just like tradable steam gifts slowly disappeared. Well, skin trading indeed exists, but they mostly wanted to eradicate the currency itself, not the purchasable product (because items were usually bought with keys). And, you know, they can't ban paypal transactions, so they started by banning the currency itself.
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there goes one of my alternative payement méthodes on steam lol, here in my country we have so many limitations on web money and payement methods to the point where my credit card can get blocked for a whole week if i make 2 consecutive purchases in the same day for as low as 5-10$ so i usually get a bulk of csgo/tf2 keys from resellers online or local resellers and then list them on the market to be able to buy games when they are put on some king of 24-48h flash sales.
i get why valve are doing this but i wish there was another alternative but whatever, guess the fraudulent traders are ruining it for us all :(
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I keep them as my last resort since for the price of a 5$ steam gift card i can get 3 csgo keys which grants me at least 6.6$ , gift card purchases here go through additional taxes
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those are almost at the same price as the csgo keys here and i used to buy whatever i find available either csgo or tf2 keys :p
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There might eventually be liquidity issues once the remaining keys start to be consumed, but I'm thinking most traders only use keys as a form of currency, so they'll stay in the market one way or another.
As long as those bulk csgo keys were legitimately sourced I don't see how traders will be adversely effected. The price per keys will go up marginally, but you're only using it as a trading currency anyways, so when you trade for games with them you'll get more "games per key". The availability of untradable keys will offer a price ceiling for those tradable keys, (as people who want to use the keys will choose the cheaper option) so rampant inflation shouldn't really be an issue either.
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Yep. I still have 5 keys in my inventory. Waiting for the right time to sell them.
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Well, yeah there will be a cap, nobody is going to buy keys for $2.51 on the market when they are $2.50 ingame unless they are completely ignorant of said option.
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So, now we know that in Valve terms, "around 5 years or so" = "recently".
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that kinda makes sense - Half life 3's development started "recently"
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Why they were ever allowed to be traded or sold in the first place is beyond me.
Seems like they're just correcting an oversight that never should have happened.
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I think many responses on my first post already explained that very well; to roam additional money of purchases.
But if that well dries up or shifts the transactions from the market where they get a cut to trading they don't...
Again; it's all about the money. It's always has been, and probably always will.
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But if that well dries up
That well would never dry up for them. Keys would always be traded on the market in some capacity (if they continued to allow it) and Valve would always get a cut from market sales. Since they're virtual items, they don't cost anything to produce. It wouldn't really matter if a lot of the trading was done outside of the market. Valve would still be getting "free money."
Basically, Valve is giving up whatever "free money" they'd be getting from the market sales in order to combat criminal activity revolving around their virtual currency.
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I noticed last week (or one before) that some of my very old csgo crates went up from 0,04 to about 0,40.
Had that anything to do with this? Or did I miss something else?
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if valve does nothing, bad valve supports scammers and cheaters that ruin the economy!!!
if they do something, bad valve wants to screw our profits because they are greedy and selfish and now we can't trade omg this is the end of steam time to move to epic!!!
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It's fine, you still can pay with PayPal for the games from somebody else.
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More profit for keys now xD
But not bad that it stopped. Small, but right step against Scammer.
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CS:GO Keys that were bough before are still tradeable, they've all gone up in price on the community market it seems. So you may have profited from the trade.
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Provided they didn't sell/trade them before their price raise.
Makes me remember I should have bought more gems when they were 0.18, but I never really expected them to recover to 0.30 after the Winter Sale. Guess the Summer sale nothing gemmable and no trading card trick worked...
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folks will just move on to arcanas and stuff, this update solves literally nothing
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Love this change. Hopefully traders will start accepting paypal like normal people.
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never seen a company so actively hate its own customers as valve does. i know people love hating on EA, but EA only seems to do what customers keep demanding and paying for. Valve on the other hand has been on a crusade to kill off everything people loved about steam.
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https://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2019/10/26113/
This will be significant for trading, where they were a common currency.
I assume TF2 will be next.
Thoughts?
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