Does the train end at the region restricted copy? And thanks!
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks for pointing that out! Didn't mean for it to be region restricted! Sent a ticket to support and fixed the links!
Comment has been collapsed.
That must be the end of the line, where the train hits the barricade and breaks apart, the impact kills everyone except the ones living in the said region, true giveaway train story.
Comment has been collapsed.
No. I'm pretty sure it's the custom's officer checking our visas at the border control.
Comment has been collapsed.
+1 for tolerance towards mistakes
-1 for tolerance towards on purpose mistakes
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think we should be tolerant towards users that are obviously abusing the system. I just don't support the "one time offense = perma-ban" idea that's been popping up all over the place, lately; especially since I've been that guy.
You realize you did something wrong, you look at everything nice about steamgifts, you get your act together and stop being an idiot.
Comment has been collapsed.
I just don't support the "one time offense = perma-ban" idea that's been popping up all over the place, lately
As much as I think the enforcement here is way too lax, I wouldn't either for a first time offense. Unless it was something really bad that justified it. That said, in my opinion there is also very little in the way of meaningful consequences for those who either ignorantly violate or willfully scoff the rules, and reprimands are generally little more than a minor inconvenience, meanwhile transgressors still 'win' and benefit even if they lose when caught. Punishments in my eyes are way too soft as is and need to be 'beefed up', given some actual teeth and made meaningful. Repeat offenders should also be subject to permaban for certain infractions.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't disagree with you. There are obvious repeat offenders that break the rules maliciously. My argument is not that these should be forgiven, only that people should not instantly hate someone because they have unactivated wins or have regifted in the past (especially when most become upstanding members of the community).
I agree entirely that people who are obviously here exclusively to take advantage of what is offered and give nothing back should be banned.
Comment has been collapsed.
BUMP FOR SOLVED. Seriously though a 1 year ban would be good, they can still come back after that, hopefully understanding the rules by then.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm gonna assume you're talking about a 1st offense ban. If that's wrong, disregard my reply and please tell me I'm wrong :)
I disagree with a 1 year ban for 1st time offenders. 1st time, I am fine with the 5 day/offense ban. 2nd time should be significantly harsher. Maybe 1 month/offense (not including offenses that have already been 'made up for'). Then 3rd time can be perma-ban.
My entire argument has less to do with the fact that the banning system is lax here (which we can all agree with) and more to do with the apparent torch-wielding mob that has taken over SG trying to get single offenders perma-banned. As someone who was banned and then moved past it, I know that it is an easy and stupid thing to fall into, but easy to crawl back out of.
Comment has been collapsed.
I am talking about the 2nd offense, sorry. For first offense a 2 day ban + a warning would be sufficient i think.
Comment has been collapsed.
I believe in giving people a chance to redeem themselves but there are some people that just won't learn from their mistakes; it's those people that should taste the bitter banhammer of justice.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree entirely. The purpose of my post was to try and get people not to instantly hate people without a 100% clean record. It's obvious that the banning system needs to be reworked to get rid of people who do nothing but take advantage of the system, but it should take into account the fact that most 1st time offenders are not malicious. So a 3 strike system would be great (in my opinion).
1st time can stay the same (5 days/offense); then the 2nd one can be harsher (maybe 1 month/offense); followed by a perma-ban for the 3rd. The first will will make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second will make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban.
Another addition that would be great is a button that you have to press before you send feedback or when you accept the gift that says something akin to: "I understand that by clicking Recieved that I MUST activate this game on MY Steam account or I risk being BANNED"
Comment has been collapsed.
Haha I read the OP and was like, where is the giveaway? Thanks! :P
Comment has been collapsed.
I told you it was hidden ;) I was being sneaky haha
Comment has been collapsed.
I would not permaban for first time offenders. I would be really in favor of permabanning for reoffenders. Maybe something like the three strikes and you're out rule that's used irl in several countries. I would also be in favor that this would be totally automated without one SG user reporting another one as this is mostly done to (help) enforce the SG rules but sometimes this is also done to "hurt" another SG user.
Also personally I encounterd my first re re reoffender (didn't activate my gift and not some others, won 4 times the same game on different dates, tried multiple regifting etc). He's now suspended (again) but I would wager that after suspension he will do all the same again. And he has a win/gift ratio of 10/1. What would you do marpenorj with this type of reoffender?
Comment has been collapsed.
While I would love an automated system, I can recognize that it creates problems not just for the users, but for the servers (which we already know have problems).
As for your specific issue, I very much agree with the 3 strike system: 1st time can stay the same (5 days/offense); then the 2nd one can be harsher (maybe 1 month/offense); followed by a perma-ban for the 3rd. The first will will make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second will make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban.
Another addition that would be great is a button that you have to press before you send feedback or when you accept the gift that says something akin to: "I understand that by clicking Recieved that I MUST activate this game on MY Steam account or I risk being BANNED"
Comment has been collapsed.
We're all humans and we're all doing mistakes. But the rules are here to follow. I'm not a big fan of perma bans, but I do agree that second or third penalty for doing the same mistake should be much longer to disencourage people from breaking the rules. 3 days, a month, and a perma, sounds good to me.
I did mistakes, too, like major portion of the community, and I got onto a few blacklists from people that couldn't understand that, and you know what? I don't care anymore, I just blacklist them back and I'm happy that there are actually more people who whitelisted me, than those who blacklisted me for some silly reason.
Although some of them actually understood that they overreacted and blacklisted me for no real reason, so I'm always happy to take one guy off my "BL4BL" list.
Comment has been collapsed.
What's even worse: when you find yourself blacklisted by someone, but you're almost certain you didn't break any rules or do anything that would encourage normal person to put you there. Yet it still happens. As you say, "BL4BL". Still it's kinda sad you can still see their forum posts even though you probably don't want to.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's is what I'm most afraid of. Being blacklisted for something I did almost 2 years ago without taking into account everything I've done since then.
This thread has definitely made me feel a lot better about the community, but I am still very worried about the general negative attitude towards people with a record long in the past.
Hope you enjoyed the giveaways :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think blacklists and whitelists should be mutual. If I'm blacklisted by people with good profiles I'm not going to blacklist them back. They're welcome to join and win my giveaways (but I'd be curious to know why I was blacklisted). Similarly, whitelists shouldn't be mutual, because it would serve as a backdoor of sorts to get on people's whitelists without deserving it.
Comment has been collapsed.
I've never agreed with the BL4BL mentality, but then again I keep my blacklist incredibly small (only people who I know are repeat offenders who have no chance of reforming - or - people how I have seen in the forums being consistently toxic or negative).
I have just been saddened by the increasing number of blacklists that I have been placed on for something done so long ago and before I really understood, appreciated, and gave back to the community. I understand why people are so quick to judge, especially with the advent of the tools referenced in your previous posts that make it so easy to know a users entire past here; I just wish that people instantly judging things by that binary scale were less prevalent.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why do you care if you are blacklisted? You give that person power by caring. So you can't enter some giveaway that you will most likely not win anyway, big deal. And by blacklisting people yourself you are simply doing exactly the same thing they are and are no better. Common sense is what is really lacking with the younger generations.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't think it's fair that a guy who blacklisted me can potentially join and win my giveaways. If there was an option in settings that would be a simple checkbox of "Prohibit users who blacklisted you from joining your giveaways" I wouldn't need that.
Comment has been collapsed.
Opening a giveaway and seeing "You cannot enter because you are on this user's blacklist" is a harsh thing to see. Especially when you have no idea what you've done. Since I have been banned, I will instantly know why I'm there (which doesn't make me feel great either).
I can understand why it might feel bad even if there is a 1/5000 chance of winning a game. It means someone took the time to add you to a list that says, "You've done something that goes so against what I see as right that I want to make sure that you will never be able to enter even my bundled-games giveways." Is it an emotional reaction? Yes. Understanable, though? Absolutely.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm glad to see that most people agree with the 3 strike system. The first will will make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second will make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban.
What I am more worried about is how users will react to "reformed offenders." As you can see in this post (this is actually the same mod that banned me!) as well as this one most return and become outstanding members of the community. Despite that, I have seen (on threads that had nothing to do with banning or re-gifting) people reply to users that have been banned with hate (that has nothing to do with the thread). No I will not post links as that would be calling out
Something that might add to the effectiveness of the site is a button that you have to press before you send feedback or when you accept the gift that says something akin to: "I understand that by clicking Recieved that I MUST activate this game on MY Steam account or I risk being BANNED"
Comment has been collapsed.
Most of the time, when people create a topic about trading or even begging in here, I try to warn him. But there is a limit, if they insist that what they are doing is right, and end up being rude to people, they end up going to a not-so-colourful list.
I did my mistakes too, so I understand(never re-gift or anything, it was a begging joke :P).
Comment has been collapsed.
When someone is rude, there's not much you can do about it; I agree. Sadly, you just have to warn them and move on. Thanks for the bump and hope you enjoyed the giveaways!
Comment has been collapsed.
Blacklisting people because you think they are rude or stupid is silly to me. My handle is both rude and stupid, (my mom thinks it's stupid but then again she takes it personally) should I be blacklisted? It just goes to show you. If you give someone an ounce of power they can use at their discretion they find a way to justify abusing it.
Comment has been collapsed.
You're not stupid. The reply you made could have never come from a stupid person ;)
But yes, you may be right. In the end what really counts it's our personal judgement. Blacklist it's just a way to show our judgement towards people, and there's nothing we can do about it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe the first time is a mistake, but after that? Not at all. 2nd time should be 3mos, 3rd strike perm.
Comment has been collapsed.
I believe three strikes is the rule for permaban although I think sometimes it's 2 strikes if the second is very egregious: http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/yjh9k/banning-and-banned-peoples-gas#NNdp8Oy
http://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/HmRPa/a-proposal-for-dealing-with-people-who-dont-activate-their-games#9PMh4mD
Comment has been collapsed.
Usually it's the first time that's egregious, because we haven't caught them yet. Then when they do it again, we get rid of them. That's the exception, though. Mostly it's one or two wins because they didn't know any better and they catch a short suspension and then become upstanding members of the community from that point forward.
Repeated infractions of any type will get you thrown off the site. We don't abide people who have no intention of following the rules. However, we don't mete out punishments according to sports metaphors, because that's idiotic.
Comment has been collapsed.
I tend to agree with a 3 strike system. The first will will make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second will make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban.
Comment has been collapsed.
Glad to hear there are good people in the threads :) Hope you enjoyed the GAs
Comment has been collapsed.
No problem. Hope you enjoyed it :)
Fooled you twice?
Comment has been collapsed.
Generally people are different and can hardly all be have the same opinion. And this topic is not different.
Thank you for the train
Comment has been collapsed.
most of those banning threads come from a same user :D
Comment has been collapsed.
It's true that there have only been a handful of them making the threads; I'm more worried about the torch&pitchfork-wielding mob that follows them around where ever they pop up.
I've been put on plenty of blacklists becaues of them ˃̣̣̥᷄⌓˂̣̣̥᷅
Comment has been collapsed.
I feel people who go against rules should only be banned until they remove their hacks/remove the content they got from infringing
Comment has been collapsed.
I would love to agree with that, but I had no hacks, and cannot remove content I was banned for. 2 years ago, right after I registered, I won some giveaways and because I was stupid and didn't know the rules decided to regift them instead of keeping them. I was banned for those offenses, served my time, returned and have given back to the community since then. The problem is that with the tools everyone can have now that check if people have 100% activated rate, you can look all the way into a users past and instantly mark them as a bad user, even if they've grown since the offense they were already punished for.
Comment has been collapsed.
When I had my first GA, the winner took almost a week before he responded which made me think that he was already setting trades for they key as he went online several times throughout the week. He later claimed the key and activated it for himself :)
I think it helps that you congratulate the winner personally and make them feel like that the game they won is something that they should be enjoying themselves :3
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't disagree. I still remember how impatient I was with my first giveaway I sent support a ticket because they hadn't activated it within 18 hours and I was worried. It's nice to know your gift was appreciated :)
Comment has been collapsed.
While I respect your opinion, I have my own too and with many of the things I have seen it is often a quite different take. You can preach yours until you are blue in the face, but it's not going to change my views.
Comment has been collapsed.
That's perfectly fair :)
I don't want you to think that I am against banning people who are repeat offenders; just don't like seeing hate sprout up out of things that happened so long ago or were someone's first offense.
There are definitely more severe measures that need to be taken against people who repeatedly abuse the system.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree, there are a lot of hate, not only here, but on the internet in general, I guess. I do believe though that punishment should be harsher. I mean, if you are a serial offender, there is no good excuse. Regifted once? Here take a punishment and realize this is against the rules. Regifted 10 times? Well, I guess the chances of you being a troll account is pretty high.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree entirely. People who are banned several times should not be given any more chances (in general I think most people agree with a 3 strike system).
The only problem is that sometimes a ban doesn't come after a 1st offense. By the time I realized what I was doing was not only wrong, but against the rules (meaning when I was finally banned for it), I had already regifted 5 games. Since then, I've given back several times the worth of those games to the site, but I've been marred by them.
I understand why people can get mad about these, even if they were so far in the past. With things like SGtools, it makes it easy for people to judge users in a black/white scale. I just wish it was less prevalent.
Comment has been collapsed.
well, to be honest your gift history is pretty bad... not talking about your ratio, you know what i mean.
but it's fixable if you are willing to put some effort into it, and since you made this topic i suppose that's your intention.
Comment has been collapsed.
I do know what you mean. Whenever I see that I've been blacklisted by someone who I know I've never talked to before I know it's because of the 5 gifts I didn't activate. I know that saying that I was banned for all of them at the same time doesn't change anything and I know that being ignorant of the rules isn't a defense against them. I just wish people would look at what I've done since then with equal weight to what I did when I was just starting out on the site.
Not an easy task, I know. I just hoped this thread might bring it to more people's attention. And thank you for not placing me on you blacklist despite that record.
Comment has been collapsed.
i don't blacklist for rule-breaking, the suspension is enough. and i was also in the same spot when i joined so i kinda understand. :3
but it's always nice to have a clean history, specially when it's pretty easy/cheap to fix. makes most blacklisters disappear.
Comment has been collapsed.
If you do it once, you deserve a suspension for a few days, but if you keep breaking the rules, you deserve a perma-ban imo. You could see this as a hate speech, but see it from the other side, you buy games to giveaway here for some random people, you expect them to atleast activate them on their accounts. If they don't do it, it's basically a "fuck you, I do what I want with my game and I don't care about you or the money you spent on this". But that's just my opinion, hopefully I can blacklist these users and move on :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't disagree that there are people that take advantage of the system. They definitely need to be dealt with in a more finite way. From what I've seen, most people agree with a 3 strike system: The first will to make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second to make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban.
I am just more worried about people trying to call up arms against users that have made mistakes when just starting out without taking a glance at what they've done since.
Thank you for including your opinion in the discussion! Hope you enjoyed the GAs :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I'll just bump. I'm not into those discussions, because of my point of view that's not generally accepted.
Meaninf free ban for everyone!
Comment has been collapsed.
I think there is a period of time when mercy is justified; legitimate mistakes or lack of knowledge (not because of sheer ignorance, but because of inexperience or confusion) that should be forgiven.
On the other hand, there are some people who frequently demonstrate a lack of knowledge of the rules and a disregard for learning the actual rules. These people are problematic.
Comment has been collapsed.
I 100% agree. From what I've seen, most people agree with a 3 strike system: The first will will make new users realize that they are breaking the rules. The second will make them realize the severity of the issue before issuing the final ban. It gives people without experience a chance to understand the site, and deals with repeat offenders effectively.
Another addition that would be great is a button that you have to press before you send feedback or when you accept the gift that says something akin to: "I understand that by clicking Recieved that I MUST activate this game on MY Steam account or I risk being BANNED"
What I am more worried about is how users will react to "reformed offenders." As you can see in this post (this is actually the same mod that banned me!) as well as this one most return and become outstanding members of the community. Despite that, I have seen (on threads that had nothing to do with banning or re-gifting) people reply to users that have been banned with hate (that has nothing to do with the thread). No I will not post links as that would be calling out
Comment has been collapsed.
You've got some tricky tricky tricks in that train of yours.
Comment has been collapsed.
Haha, the worst of them was unintentional! The region restricted GA has been fixed
Hope you enjoyed the train :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Sure, you are in favor of people who broke the rules if you are one of them and sure, people don't read the rules and make mistakes, but if that involves regifting or trading a game that someone has spent their money on I have no tolerance for that. No matter how cheap or expensive the game was. Someone has spent their money on it and someone gave it to someone else, used it for their own CV or for profit and they shouldn't be allowed to do this more than once in my opinion. Why give someone three strikes or more? How much money should be wasted on someone until it becomes bad enough for a ban?
And when it shows up as non-activated even after a year and that person didn't buy that game himself to have it on their account I don't see any reason to be tolerant if they won't even make up for their mistakes.
Comment has been collapsed.
I can understand your opinion entirely. I know nothing will change your mind but thank you for taking the time to respond to the thread.
Hope you enjoyed the GAs!
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, there is a tl;dr at the bottom if you don’t want to read this
Yes I realize this will likely land me in a few blacklists
And yes, there is a giveaway hidden in here
For the past month or so I have seen a massive rise in the number of threads calling for perma-banning of anyone who commits anything against the rules. It just seems like everyone is up in arms over this. I can understand people’s frustration over un-activated gifts, regifted ones, and general rule breaking, but not the rampant hate that seems to be streaming everywhere. I don’t know if there have been more people committing these in the past while, which would explain the rise in threads, or if people are just flaring up, since I have not had this problem for a while.
The point of all of this is that I have been on the other side, and made mistakes. I’ve used SG for almost 2 years and when I started out I didn’t read the rules. Because I was an idiot, I ended up getting banned for unactivated wins & regifting and was threatened with a perma-ban. This was more than a year ago. I served my time, have been giving back to the community, and am now working my way from level 4 to 5.
I can understand the anger and frustration at some of these people, and know that the site has grown a lot in the past 2 years so now bots are a lot more prevalent. But we still have users who will make the same mistakes I did. We still have people who might stupidly try to make a profit from this site before realizing how wonderful the community can be.
What I ask is that you don’t think of these people as evil that needs to be removed from the site immediately. Don’t blacklist someone just because they have an unactivated win from over a year ago. Don’t give in to hating someone for a mistake they made when they still didn’t understand SG.
tl;dr – While there are malicious users, there should not be blanket perma-banned for everyone who makes one mistake. Don’t hate people just because they were stupid. They might end up giving back a lot more than they ever could have taken in the first place.
Comment has been collapsed.