Whole story:


FRIDAY:

My fiance started her own company 3 weeks ago. Last week she received a mail - inside was something looking like an official letter from government, with official stamps etc - calling her to pay 195 PLN (46EUR) for mandatory registration in "Polish Companies Registry. Below was a blanket to send money via bank transfer. On the other side of sheet of paper there was written with small letters that "This is just an advertisement. No payment is mandatory. We are not government agency, but just private company".


WEDNESDAY:

We went with that letter to police to report a fraud attempt. 1st policeman told us it's not a fraud, because there's this text on the other side. We said we'd like to report anyway and let a court decide if it's a fraud or not. He told us we'll have to wait for his supervisor.

His supervisor comes, we tell whole story over again - he says he cannot take our statement cause it's no Police work and we should go to civil court if we want to. I take out my smartphone and google through polish law codexes and show him a point that it's not a matyter for civil court but for the police. Very unhappy he writes down a statement then he asks me for a smartphone I just googled it on. I think he wants to copy what paragraph number it is or something, but no - he puts a smartphone into an evidence bag. WTF? - I ask. "You used your company's smartphone for private matters, which is against the law.". "It's not company's smartphone! It's my private phone. Plus I bought it over 1.5 year ago while company is up for just 1.5 week!". "In this case we will have to verify it - if it's really private smartphone, not a company one. You can take it back in 24 hours". "Can I at least have my SIM card back?". "No, SIM card is part of protected evidence now". He gives me piece of paper to come back tommorow for my phone.


THURSDAY :

I go to pick up my phone. They give it back to me - batterry dead. I go back t home, charge it - and what do I see? 26 calls made while phone was there, whole internet package used, shitload of some useless shitty apps from "money-for-download" pages installed. I go back to police to report it. What do I hear? "You probably made all these calls and downloaded all this stuff right now, while changing phone clock, just to blame police". For next few minutes I try to calmly resolve this issue - but I hear that if I don't stop talking I'm the one who they will arrest for fraud on them - as I obviously try to scam them for compensation right now. The moment I hear it I break - I scream on an idiot who tells me this that he must be a moron, that the fucking Android would change all timers the moment I'd change time, and that some fucking asshole from their fucking police station is just a thief that decided to use smartphone which was suposed to be evidence to save himself some money and earn some fucking credits on some shitty website for downloading shitty aps.

Next thing I know I lie on the ground handcuffed behind my back. They take me to prosecutors and I find out I'm charged with insulting police officer (because I used vulgar language) and resisting an arrest (yeah - me fat, unhealthy nerd resisted 3 bigass muscled cops who were lying on me and handcuffing me). And I hear I now face a threat of big fine or up to one year of jail time... So yeah - that's my story - if you read up to here the GA cove is hidden right after Thursday.


AFTER NECRO EDIT

OK... idk why the hell someone necroed such an old topic, you're an idiot dear sir, but as for update how things ended up:

  1. Prosecution refused to drop charges and insisted about getting case into court.
  2. Then to make the whole process longer they insisted on psychiatric evaluation - deciding it one month after the case started o.O then waiting 2 weeks for a visit to a doctor so the doctor after 15 minutes can tell that no, I'm not a psycho.
  3. In the meantime of all this bullshit going on the year ended.
  4. Right at the start of the new year prosecution suddenly drops charges because of "low level of harm towards society".
  5. Seems that it got so long, because t was easy case to booost statistics. Apparently they results are evaluated not solely on number of cases they solve, but rather on number of cases and how long they work on them. They had no case, but they were running a case anyway, so in stats they were working hard for society.
  6. I did not file a civil case, because the expenses I'd have to pay were just silly compared to almost nothing I could get. Return of my 2 days salary because that's how many days I couldn't work.
9 years ago*

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Co k***a? // WTF?

Trochę to nierozsądne było - ot dałeś się sprowokować, a to właśnie było coś, co chcieli osiągnąć - za zawracanie dupy. Masz papier, że telefon był na policji, masz możliwość wyciągnięcia bilingu od operatora - idziesz z tym do komendy wojewódzkiej i pieskowi robią z dupy jesień średniowiecza.

Ot dałeś się ponieść emocjom i teraz masz przygodę życia :)

Sorry for no english wersion :p

9 years ago
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Damn, i love and hate Poland at the same time ; / WE need the change this shitty government or something : <
PS. Mój kraj taki piękny...
Trzymaj się : )

9 years ago
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shit Zelg... that sucks... Crap, i feel so sorry for you. I hope it all goes good for you! D:

9 years ago
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I hate bullying and chicanery commited by authorities like the pest.

♠ Wish you all the best with this case, Zelgha!

9 years ago
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that's why you always record the cops

9 years ago
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it is illegal to record police officers or any gov official in PL without informing them beforehand that they are being recorded. Plus they must agree on being recorded by you as well - and usually they won't agree ofc.

9 years ago
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Police state...Police state never changes...

9 years ago
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Pomyśleć, że mam tak agresywną i podstępną osobę w znajomych na Steamie...

9 years ago
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Makes me feel helpless. What aholes...

9 years ago
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You CAN and MUST fight for you rights. And there is a way... I don't have time to read every post and my be some one write this before, but...

You need to get itemized bill (itemized print) from your mobile operator. Go in any office of the operator and after few minutes it will be ready. Then make copy of police protocol when phone is taken from thaem and when it's returned. And don't go in the police! Go in court and make civil case. And after you win this, there is no way to loose with this documents, you can make another civil case for lost profits for time in the arrest, non-pecuniary damage and police brutality. It'll be very hard to make case for the last one directly, but previous case will be proff for next one.

If polish court deny this case, you can go in EU court! In every EU country, there is non goverment agencys that help people in this cases for free, thay get money from goverment after you win the case :)

9 years ago
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As for civil case and winning lots of money - maybe in US but not in PL. Here you cannot get compensation for their wrongdoings - all you can get is compensation for your real money loss and you can get exact amount of money you lost - so in my case just money for calls/internet they used on phone and me not going to work hence not earning anything for 1 day.

9 years ago
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ACAB

9 years ago
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I never thought i'd feel sorry for you but here i am...
I hope it works out in the end.
And if it doesn't, i would probably go nuts and start making plans to apply the "Law Abiding Citizens" treatment.
But that's just me.
I can't stand injustice of any kind.
And Lars von Trier carved a special place for that kind of hate in my heart.

9 years ago
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most of the police are corrupt and those guys are the perfect example. Sorry for what happened to you, nothing would of happened if you hadn't tried to report it but i think you did the honorable thing by trying to get justice and attempting to stop that company that tried to fraud you. They are the same as phising links, the people who don't know any better end up losing things to them but that doesn't mean they should just be let free to do their thing and if you fall to their tricks it's a personal problem

9 years ago
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Some good advice here, I don't know enough to give you any but wish you the best of luck, you know you aren't a criminal and don't give up hope proving it. If you can get the whole thing struck off your record so it doesn't affect future employment and other life prospects that's still a good outcome

9 years ago
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no english here, pardon ;)

zelghadis - jak piszesz to twój pierwszy kontakt z policją od doopy strony, czyli chcąc nie chcąc zostałeś wrobiony. Pierwsza zasada związana z policją - nie zgrywaj twardziela ani nie mądrz się. Jeśli masz przed sobą jełopa to idź do innego, może cię wysłucha. Ale pamiętaj że policja to firma, oni chronią siebie nawzajem, tak naprawdę ciężko spodziewać się że jeden podniesie rękę na drugiego.
Zawsze nagrywaj wszelkie z nimi rozmowy, na wszelki wypadek. Bierz kopie podpisanych dokumentów, oświadczeń, sfotografuj je chociaż jeśli dadzą to zrobić.

Spotkałem już tyle sytuacji tego typu że wiem jedno - z nimi nigdy nie można rozmawiać jeśli jest taka opcja. O niczym, nigdzie, pod żadnym pretekstem. Że stoją ponad prawem (i z wymiarem sprawiedliwości współpracują) to wie pewnie każdy. Znajomy przegrał sprawę w sądzie za THC w organizmie. Nie był palaczem, a jednak nawet w sądzie przegrał mimo że wszelka dokumentacja medyczna była niespójna i błędna. Skończyło się na wyroku w zawieszeniu. Drugi złapany z lolkiem na ulicy (a więc jakby nie było ten prawo złamał) podczas przesłuchania był bity po nogach żeby wsypać swojego dostawcę, oczywiście bez śladów, także wyszedł po wszystkim i koniec sprawy - bo co miał zrobić bez dowodu na przemoc. Trzeciemu z kolei jeszcze za nastolatka podrzucili podczas przeszukania (w paręnaście osób pili piwo w parku) torebkę z amfą albo czymś tam. Wszystko po to żeby dzieciak spanikował i wydał jakiegoś lokalnego dilera którego zna (taka prowokacja-próba w ciemno). Skończyło się na sądzie, jego udało się uniewinnić.
Innego człowieka przypadek, podobny do twojego - w nocy wracał na rauszu, jakichś dwóch go napadło, chcieli kasy. Nie udało się, a znajomy (pijany) poszedł od razu na komendę obok żeby zgłosić. Zamiast przyjąć zgłoszenie policemany zamknęły go w areszcie "bo pijany". Rano wypuścili, odebrał portfel z dokumentami, w środku brakowało pieniędzy, mała kwota typu 60zł. Pyta o to i słyszy że to nie oni byli pijani tylko on, więc skąd mają wiedzieć :)

Jak chcą dać mandat za głupie piwo albo coś to najlepiej przyjąć i się nie wykłócać. Tym bardziej jeśli jednak mają rację i to przysłowiowe piwo piliśmy. Jeszcze w tym roku w drodze na wakacje moja grupka dobrych znajomych narobiłaby nam niezłego bigosu (zupełnie inni ludzie niż trzech narkotycznych o których pisałem wyżej;). Normalni że tak ujmę "woodstockowi" ludzi, jedno (!) otwarte piwo, policjant podszedł, spisuje kumpla - mandat za picie. Raban (zapewne wszyscy 0 doświadczenia z policją) kolegów i koleżanek przez chwilę jakby szkop odrywał nam Lubuskie od macierzy, a dwóch miłych policjantów było już na skraju zgarnięcia nas wszystkich i pewnie przeszukania pod pretekstem narkotycznej trawki albo pod innym. Po prostu za utrudnienia w rewanżu usraliby nam życie na chwilę.
Co by wymyślili nie wiem, ale po twarzach było widać że zaraz pałka się przegnie. Na prawie 10 osób pewnie ktoś by coś powiedział... podniósł głos... jak ty właśnie. W najlepszym przypadku byśmy stracili pół dnia, bo potem to nie trwa 15 minut (jeśli zechcą).
Na szczęście uspokoiło się, dali stówkę mandatu i tyle. Morał? Nie warcz na psa bo ugryzie i będzie miał do tego "prawo".
Smutne ale prawdziwe.

Chyba że nagrywamy jak ostatnio znany przypadek ze SM w Szczecinku. Ale to trzeba mieć farta i ogólnie spory upór żeby zebrać jakieś dowody chociażby po to żeby móc ledwo podważyć słowa funkcjonariusza. A jak nie masz żadnych świadków rozmowy to już naprawdę w razie spięć morda w kubeł, bo jak będą chcieli, to cię przekręcą. Sam zresztą widzisz.

Za obrażenie jeśli pójdziesz do sądu to grożą ci jakieś zawiasy i prace społeczne, zresztą twój prawnik wie lepiej.
Czy rozgłosić sprawę? Zastanów się.
Jeśli w związku z obecną pracą nie możesz otrzymać wyroku, to chyba nie masz wyboru. Ale wtedy musisz pamiętać że kręcisz też na siebie bat, wtedy tym bardziej czeka się poważne starcie z twoją prawda VS ich kłamstwem. W takim wypadku wszystkie ręce na pokład, wykop, portale, wszystkie mające twoje zaufanie stacje tv, redakcje gazet/czasopism itd... W takim wypadku pamiętaj jednak że możesz stać się na 3 minuty (bo pewnie nawet nie 5) takim Zbigniewem Stonogą. A ślad w necie wiążący twoją osobę ze sprawą zostanie na całe lata. Jego przykład pokazuje że zawalczyć o prawdę można, ale z drugiej strony spędził 3.5 roku w więzieniu tylko dlatego że ktoś tak chciał. A nie był pierwszym lepszym, tylko dość zamożnym członkiem elit.

Z drugiej strony jeśli możesz sobie pozwolić na krótkie zawiasy (a tym lepiej jeśli będzie opcja samej grzywny itp) to rozważ czy nie przyjąć takiej bardzo gorzkiej lekcji demokracji w państwie prawa. W tym sensie że w sądzie zawalczyć o to prawo, ale przy przegranej przyjmiesz to na klatę i nie będziesz ruszał dalej.
Jak słusznie napisał Khalaq dwie strony wcześniej "There are times to take a stand and bear the consequences of doing so, but you have to pick your battle wisely. There's a saying in the military.... Ask yourself if this is the hill you want to die on. "

Także zdecyduj czy chcesz za tą sprawę umierać. Jest bulwersująca i krew się w żyłach gotuje, ale jeszcze na szczęście nie rujnuje ci życia. Wchodząc z nimi w otwarty spór możesz wyrządzić sobie większą krzywdę niż może się wydawać. Znasz nasz kraj, więc wiesz że w razie wygranej (nawet gdyby to "naruszenie dóbr policjanta" też udało ci się wybronić) policjantowi nie zrobią nic, może nagana w papierach, za to twoja ewentualna przegrana może być tym bardziej bolesna im więcej w walkę włożysz wysiłku.
Żeby nie szukać daleko - nawet sławny Wipler jak na razie nie ma z nimi szans, a jest aż posłem.
Jak opisałem - ja sam nauczyłem się na czyichś błędach żeby nie fikać, a najlepiej po prostu unikać wszelkich (!) z nimi interakcji.

Oczywiście każdy wolałby widzieć cię walczącego o sprawiedliwość, ale zdecydowanie łatwiej to powiedzieć z boku niż samemu wdrożyć w życie.
Tak czy inaczej życzę powodzenia i współczuję całej sytuacji.
Na koniec wesoła dająca nadzieję sytuacja z UK - popijawa, skończyły się %, gość jedzie rowerem po więcej. Po drodze jeszcze dopił, usnął "w rowie" czy gdzieś tam. Po 2 godzinach dzwonek do drzwi, policja: "to wasz kolega? proszę. to jego rower? proszę. to wasz alkohol? proszę. i uważajcie na niego następnym razem". True story.
Można? Można. Oby częściej u nas...

9 years ago
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Tyle tekstu O_o

td;dr - ACAB! <żarcik>

9 years ago
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Pierdolisz jak potluczony. To, ze ty nie potrafisz z psami gadac albo w kolko jestes nacpany to twoj problem.

9 years ago
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Już drugi raz w ostatnim czasie widzę że się tak agresywnie dopisujesz do tematów. To jest forum na którym panuje kultura, nie ma miejsce na chamstwo, serio.

A mój długi wywód jest dla Zelga. Widać że jego pierwszy tego typu kontakt z policją skończył się w przykry sposób, przytaczam parę historii żeby (być może) dowiedział się że takie rzeczy się zdarzają, że policjant ze złośliwości lub w jakimś swoim celu potrafi uprzykrzyć życie i przekroczyć prawo. I że nie zawsze mając rację po swojej stronie sprawiedliwości staje się zadość.
BTW - nie palę ani nic więcej w tym temacie, skąd taki wniosek? Sam też nie miałem dotąd żadnych przykrych sytuacji tego typu, za to mieli je ludzie których kiedyś tam poznałem i od nich o tym usłyszałem.

9 years ago
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Widać, że nie przeczytałeś jesgo tekstu do końca i jeszcze kozaka zgrywasz. To nie onet, więc zachowaj choć trochę kultury albo zmień klimaty

9 years ago
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Well, it has ONE POSITIVE thing: In jail, noone will say "Uhh, innocent, right?", because the story is too absurd to be a lie^^

9 years ago
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I didn't know that it is against the law to use your company's smartphone for personal matters.
P.S. a password is a must on a smartphone. punk ass cops couldn't do shit if it would have been in place.
P.P.S. I am really sorry for you

9 years ago
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It wasn't evel a company smartphone. Like I said - it's my private smartphone, but they doidn't believe it so they took it to check if it's private or company.

9 years ago
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"Check..."

9 years ago
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Fact - in Poland it is ALLOWED to use a company's phone for personal matters unless your boss forbids you to do so. It is considered a part of your work benefits. But as all work benefits you should pay tax for doing so.

There is a way around this. Give police a written statement that part of your salary is deducted as a payment for using your company's phone outside work. (and it doesn't matter if you actually do so - it is next to impossible to prove)

And it is against the law to force anyone to give up their password. So yeah - my phone would be impossible to use. But polish police laboratory is ready to bypass many types of passwords. Android lock screen, PIN code, PUK code... Matter of seconds. Disk encrypted with TrueCrypt 7.1a - most probably safe, in worst case scenario it will take a lot of time to decode it. I've got 20 GB partition on computer encrypted with it. It's more a burglar prevention than police prevention, but it is good to know that files which I don't want to share are safe. I don't know if there is a way to encrypt data in phone to prevent Police (or FBI) from reading it. But screen lock with password will prevent cops from local station from using your phone for private matters. So it is good enough for me.

9 years ago
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The fact is it wasn't even a company phone. We have company for just 3 weeks and didn't even have company phone yet - they (police) took it to check if it's a company phone, or so they said. And it turned out to be private one.

As for passwords - I'm well awared of it, just never used it for my phone before (guess I will now). I know about passwords laws, as I graduated IT and had 2-3 seminars during these 5 years about laws against cyber-crimes - and I have my HDD encrypted and protected by password etc, but as my phone was always just a gadget with no vital data recorded anyway I never bothered with it. I think I guessed that as there's no vital personal data there's no point in it - I never thought that target would be not my data but just downloading some shitty apps to get torrent DL or some shitty points on tremor-like site...

9 years ago
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Well, that sucks.

Get the bill from the phone company and file a suit. You can prove that they were tampering with evidence.

Best of luck.

9 years ago
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Przykra sprawa... Może jakoś to wyjaśnisz?

9 years ago
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And this is why i hate the motherfucking pigs, i fucking hate despise and wish death upon every fucking single one of these deadbeat violent abusive fuckwit "cops", fucking pigs..... my deepest sympaties for you dude, you did not deserve all that shit, its fucking insane.... i hope you get out of there, you shouldnt have yelled because if you watched tv, you would know they would take even the tiniest reason to put you on the ground like that... i hope you wont ever have to deal with the police ever again once you get out of there... shit, .....

9 years ago
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Seriously f'ed up situation, feel sorry for you..

9 years ago
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Holy shit Zelgh, I cant' believe that it really happened. I hope you manage to resolve this situation asap.
Best of luck to you

9 years ago
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That sucks, but let's be honest here, you acted like a complete ass. I mean, yeah, the cop's a crook and all, but you should have understood the first time when they took your phone. You went even further for something that doesn't really matter. Who cares if they used your bandwith? You think you can take that to a court? Nope. Insulting them couldn't and didn't resolve anything. Keep that as a lesson, don't be a jackass yourself.

Do you also call 911 when you wake up with a hanghover?

Edit: I still hope you're doing good. Don't worry too much, this isn't a big matter and they were against the law themselves, which is going to be rather easy to prove. Best of luck man!

9 years ago
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Yeah, police abuse is totally reasonalbe, also genocide, right?

9 years ago
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Never said it was, but acting like a spoiled ass isn't either. Yes, police can technically handle this sort of stuff, but they have other priorities. Just like hospitals hate having to deal with assholes who come for headaches. He should have went to a god damn court and consulted a lawyer. People receive mails like those every week, trying anything about it is not only useless, it's also a waste of time. Especially for a cop.

9 years ago
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Yhm - other priorities... Like playing with an evidence smartphone until batterry dies? Also how does them having other priorities justify unlawfully (as it turned out) taking a phone and all other things they did? Plus doctor in hospital is not legally obligated to check up on anyone who comes with headache and without 1st contact doctor's notice. Policeman is obligated by law to write a report if someone comes to report a fraud - and that's it - he then sends this report where it should be sent.

Oh about wasting time of a cops - I guess unnecessary arrest, wasting 2.5 hours of their time to get me to prosecution, tell their story there etc is not wasting their precious time - better to spend these ~3hours that way than to spend 5-10minutes writing down a report.

9 years ago
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Take care of you, don't worry, all will be fine, just wait

9 years ago
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I'm really sorry Zelgh for all this mess, I think you have good points and it's really sad that authorities act this way. I hope you get well and this stupid thing end for the better.
Again, best of luck!

9 years ago
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wtf+wtf+omg+wtf.

9 years ago
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