Now even the subs are not safe... What world do we live in...
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I avoid the dubs like fire because of shit like this. But now subs too? When fans do a better job than professionals...
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I still remember when onigiri (is tasty) called donuts
Manga and LNs I read only from fan translation, anime I watch now in only fan translation. I always like "Translator Notes" explaining meaning, culture or just food
I happy because translator of mangas in my country (PL) really trying give good translation, we don`t need american "PC"
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āååå¹(usojimaku)ā The word means such an event.
There seems to be a culture of playing with "usojimaku" on purpose.
It is one of the silly internet cultures, but if you are interested, you might want to check it out.
This is often the case with works from Japan going abroad.
This is often the case with works entering Japan from overseas.
After all, it seems that there are only a limited number of people to find who have a really deep understanding and appropriate knowledge of the Japanese language, and they always have some kind of priority work to do and there are no vacancies.
ćTherefore, they expect the country they are sending the work to to translate it. (To avoid local political and legal problems).
It seems that these days, there are areas where there are many "taboo words" even though they call it "freedom of speech".
By the way, you earthlings, you have not rebuilt the automatic translation device "Babel".š¼
Being able to speak the language brings distance.
There is an appropriate distance for this distance as well.
This is why the tower was removed.
If you get too close, you begin to assert a lot of things out of denial about the other person's culture.
Forming a culture is difficult because of the history of the land and surroundings.
When learning a foreign language, there will be such annotations.
Is there not?
With the increase of automatic translators, there may be more words that do not have the "real meaning" but rather the "premise of things.
I am dependent on the space translator. It's a bad thing.ā(ćĪ`*)Oh..š
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I didn't know there was a specific term and culture for this in Japan, it's nice to know I'm not alone :D I really enjoy playing games that were badly translated from English to French. GBA and DS games often had these broken translations - Castlevania Aria of Sorrow was pretty notorious from being badly translated from Japanese into English, then badly translated again from English into French so the end result was completely ridiculous :D
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Communication is amazing. The fact that anyone even partially understands each other is a miracle.
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Idk... Saying that someone is "wasting their face" if they are angry seems to convey a more hostile tone than the situation presents. This seems like good localization to me. Direct translations can always exist but word for word isn't always better. Also, not sure where American politics fit into any of those lines but I think you might be projecting
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I just like what ORIGINAL autor have to tell (not someone adaptation/fan-fiction), that why I want both ver. literal and localized (like this game "River City Girls Zero" https://nichegamer.com/river-city-girls-zero-offers-literal-or-new-translation-options/)
On one reply You have full context.
Some cultural note: NEVER disrespect elders in JP! That s why lite mocking tone fit better, especially in this scene.
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Mocking tone vs not a mocking tone at all: which do you think would be more respectful to elders?
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You watched context? (If no: https://youtu.be/qM2S9ahhAgs?t=748)
"Cocky bandit(girl): Piss off old men! (after battle)"
And I I repeat: NEVER disrespect elders in JP! it is BIG NO-NO You can bad mouth your father/mother (until they get old) but you can`t tell bad word about grandfather/grandmother. They are "boss" of family
https://seniors.lovetoknow.com/elderly-people-japan
https://youtu.be/IRAU5hD1LQA
And Japanese imigrant in my country tell me this
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i'm confused. the context shows the girl being an asshole to the man. the original shows the man being disrespectful for the girl.
also, no, you aren't supposed to badmouth your parents either because they too are your elders, but that doesn't really matter in this context.
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You forget 3 thing:
- He win the fight (she angry because she is beaten by 4x older than her age)
- tell her to "don t underestimate elder" and after that praise for good fight (and leave bandit live)
-
old men is disrespectful for the girl AFTER she been super disrespectful to him here direct quote:
PISS OFF, OLD MAN! (listen JP dub how angry she is!)
(again remember he is OLD MEN)
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Agree with thenthomwaslike--I think you are projecting.
There is not much censorship in America unless you are making overt political statements for society in RL.
A composition of fiction endures no censorship in America--an author can say all kinds of nastiness.
I think you are just noticing a poor budget translation in "Live a Live" by Nintendo (I do not even understand that title in English--perhaps they meant Live a Life?). Is Nintendo falsely concerned about certain words in English? Perhaps. Is it that expensive to hire a real translator who knows both languages fluently?
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"There is not much censorship in America" To be fair, there is a huge censorship in America, is just that people are not aware of it.
Which actually brings the point if people in Russia or China really really how much censorship there is.
https://www.cbr.com/anime-with-the-worst-localization/amp/
https://myanimelist.net/featured/1352/10_Anime_Localizations_that_Completely_Changed_the_Show
Among gaming, Sony is particularly bad at censoring. Not Nintendo, funny enough
https://crappygames.miraheze.org/wiki/Censorship_in_video_games
https://crappygames.miraheze.org/wiki/Sony%27s_censorship_policy_on_PlayStation
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it's not government censorship though. it is an agreed upon censorship between the publisher and sony/ Nintendo in order to sell their product on their platform.
Look to Australia, Germany, and China if you want to see actual video game censorship.
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Censorship is censorship. He didn't say goverment censorship
"Censorship is the suppression of speech, public communication, or other information. This may be done on the basis that such material is considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or "inconvenient". Censorship can be conducted by governments, private institutions and other controlling bodies"
We live in a world where companies have more power to influence people that even governments. To think censorship is only from the goverment, is almost old-century.
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you could call the editing process "censorship" under this definition, and i think both of us would agree that revisions, and proofreading aren't things you think about as censorship, or at the very least they aren't in the same ballpark.
In this case it is difficult to see this as a really bad problem because the creators agree to it, and the uncensored versions are still readily available for those who prefer that.
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Let's use as an example the two lovers of Sailor moon that became cousins. I can't read the uncensored version, I don't know Japanese. And the author, even the original Japanese company, didn't know anything about the changes, nor could they agree to it.
Recently a manga about a boy transforming a friend of his in a girl. And he fell in love with his friend. It was a comedy. The localization changed it, to a person falling in love with his friend who was a trans friend, and it became a drama. The creator and the original company didn't know about it, and they couldn't change it, because the contract was done.
Let's go to Sony censoring a game. The creators don't agree with it. It's an imposition by Sony. They have gone on record saying they would prefer to have the uncensored version, but Sony is too big. It's like saying people don't mind being hustled by the mafia. They mind, but what can they do? The rest of the versions are uncensored. And Japanese companies are getting increasingly angry with Sony for imposing their views.
Let's use another example. A famous spanish author was a best seller in all the world, except in a small european country where the sales were horrendous. For more than twenty years the author kept publishing books, but in that country the sales of his books were always bad. He checked once or twice the reviews, using google translator, and they kept calling his books terribly bad. Suspecting something, he paid with his own money to translate back to spanish one of the translations, and apparently the translator had BUTCHERED his work, changing themes, facts, writing like whatever he wanted. The author DIDN'T agree with it, and the uncensored version was still available for his work, sure. But for twenty years, nobody even knew his work was different.
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"I Think I Turned My Childhood Friend into a Girl,(Koisuru (Otome) no Tsukurikata)" gets butchering "translation" by seven seas
Original publisher and autor condemn "Inclusive" Mistranslations and makes to re-translate manga.
https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/06/07/seven-seas-english-localization-of-i-think-i-turned-my-childhood-friend-into-a-girl-changes-feminine-male-into-a-transgender-girl/
Localizatiors: Is fake outrage, we know better (cry on twiter)
Fan-translators(ethylene scans): give FULL legit article with PROOF were they screw-up (https://ethylene.mangadex.com/review-i-think-i-turned-my-childhood-friend-into-a-girl-volume-1/)
Original autor: Nani the **** they (seven seas) doing with my work! (after hear from FANS!)
P.S. I pissed thenthomwaslike so hard to BL me...
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That blacklist has been there for a long while and didn't originate in this thread.
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So the company that makes the game is censoring themselves constantly... And they're suppressing their own speech more trying to attract a different audience?
Yeah, makes sense to blame the others trying to help then.
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Out of all the examples I gave, could you give me one where the creators chose to censor themselves? It's always others that choose to censor them
https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/07/26/square-enix-heavily-censors-sexualized-artwork-from-various-series-for-english-release-of-manga-up-app/ they are actually censoring a pair of jeans. A pair of jeans. I can buy this ones in English without censorship right now, but sure, there is a type of audience that would get triggered if they saw a pair of jeans /s, but they will buy this manga if they feel safe after censoring a pair of jeans
Let me say it again, somehow, there was somebody in the world that saw a pair of jeans, and thought for "reasons" it would be a good idea to censor a pair of jeans.
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They censored a knee! ("Strongest Swordsmanās Magic Training: Reincarnated with Level 99 Stats, He Gets to Start Over from Level 1 ") and here have SUMMER here(naked thighs and navels triggering hard those censors!)
Good to know "My Dress-Up Darling" in my country (PL) have physical copy WITH NO CENSORSHIP! (https://studiojg.pl/Projekt_cosplay,198272.htm) They know +16 year old (boy AND girl(yes I know girl fan of "MD-UD")) don`t get heart attack when look at drawn cleavage=insta-skip that app from SE
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Live A Live agreed with Nintendo's I'm sure, as well as others, but you just keep pointing saying "These creators for Sony said they would have rather it been uncensored, but chose to agree to it anyways." despite that having nothing to do with what was previously said... And by the definition you gave about censorship all examples you've mentioned have censored themselves. All released works that I know of have editing done to clarify, shorten, etc etc etc, that wasn't what they originally said...?
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Let me explain you this: You have four small pizza shops. People depend on you, their jobs their live hoods, and the mafia come in one of them and say they are going to burn your shop if you don't pay them and you lose one fourth of your income. Well, you are "agreeing" to pay them. But you DON'T want to pay. As proof, in the other three you are not paying the mafia where they are allowing to do what you want
Another example: you create a game, with some dialogues, and some assets. People depend on you, their jobs their livehoods, and the mafia (Sony) say you have to do something (change assets and dialogues). If you don't, you can't publish with them, and you lose a fourth of your income. You are "agreeing" but you DON'T want to change anything. As proof, in the Nintendo, Xbox and PC versions, you are keeping them uncensored, as you wanted, where they are allowing to do what you want.
Understand now?
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No, mostly because that's not what we were/are talking about, and also because those don't make any sense... In the first example, you already have 4 pizza shops, all are "controlled" by the "mafia" but you only have to pay for one, it would be much cheaper, smarter, easier, etc. to just say no, and you'd still have everything from the other 3, or if you really want to keep the people in the 4th area happier that they don't have to get pizza from one of the other 3, you can agree...
In the second, if you REALLY feel like what you're changing absolutely ruins your game and makes it pointless, don't do it, and if they won't publish it, you won't lose a fourth of your income, people would just buy it from the other platforms...
Don't know why you're making up nonsense here, but clearly you don't understand, so I'm done, bye.
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I am really starting to think you are discussing on bad faith.
In the first example, you are nitpicking, let's say, yo make it clearer, one of your shop is in Italy, the other in Spain, France and Germany. And the mafia don't control shit, it's just small time local mafia thugs. If you don't pay, you have to fire the people from Italy. "it would be much cheaper, smarter, easier, etc. to just say no" I mean, people in real life usually know that protection money is not 100% of the money of the shop, if maybe, say 15% of the earnings. It's not nice, but it's not being bankrupt. And it seems you don't mind the people that you have to fire, the people whose life hood depend on you.. Either you "agree" or you have to fire them. Choose.. And i clearly explained this already.
In the second, of course yo do lose about 1/4 of your income. Companies publish games constantly on different platforms constantly because some people only play in playstation, or switch or pc, or Xbox. A game can be published for years in a few platforms and when they publish in another one, they get sales. Companies in real life, every day, are being forced to accept Sony's censorship, and people are buying every day the censored versions while having the uncensored versions available in other platforms. And if you lose 1/4 of your income, you are going to have to fire people of your company, as I already explained.
I used this as an easy example to explain how companies are being forced to "agree" to censorship
But since you are clearly being very obtuse on bad faith, I am also done with you
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Yeah, I'm sorry. My points were based on my reality, when clearly you are from a different one. Here, gamers can have more than one console, and even then, popularity of each console varies, so on 4 platforms, one could make 75% of sales, while the others split the other 25%. Also in my reality, many companies don't hire lots of people to make a separate version of a game specifically for a platform they don't even know if they'll publish on, so those people wouldn't be at risk of losing a job if they didn't want to "compromise" the vision of their game in any way...
And also in my reality, if your pizza shop has enough money to open one location in 4 different countries, but paying 15% of one of their incomes to a mafia that doesn't control anything, but also for some reason doesn't have laws apply to them. And somehow they are omnipresent in said country and you have employees in said country that have come to depend on you before suddenly you have to pay money to a magical mafia, yes, if you care enough about those employees you would agree to make a compromise, but it's still not being forced to do anything... (Plus a more accurate comparison would be them āmakingā you use a cauliflower crust or something instead of your usual crustā¦)
Don't know why not understanding how your mysterious alternate reality works is being "obtuse on bad faith" but okay, maybe now I taught you a bit about how my reality works, but it might be too hard to understand... But maybe you enjoy trying to start fights with folks from different realities, so you do you.
And still yet, this is about a Translation that Nintendo most likely agreed with so still absolutely none of your alternate reality rules have related to it at all...
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A famous spanish author was a best seller in all the world, except in a small european country where the sales were horrendous. For more than twenty years the author kept publishing books, but in that country the sales of his books were always bad. He checked once or twice the reviews, using google translator, and they kept calling his books terribly bad. The publishing company didn't think much about it, thinking it was all right. Finally suspecting something, he paid with his own money to translate back to spanish one of the translations, and apparently the translator had BUTCHERED his work, changing themes, facts, writing like whatever he wanted. The author DIDN'T agree with it, and the uncensored version was still available for his work, sure in other languages. But for twenty years, nobody even knew his work was different, not even the. Author. I bet in a forum somewhere an idiot was saying "BuT ThE AuThOr AgrEeD" No, he didn't. For decades and multiple books, he didn't.
About the rest of the argument, you are acting like an idiot or not discussing in good faith. I was explaining that there are cases where a company is forced to "compromise", for fear of losing money. I personally would compromise and accept the censorship with Sony, even if I thought that censorship was dumb and a betrayal to all the developers working on the game, because maybe the game is just breaking even, and losing the Sony deal would make me lose money, and be forced to lose workers, even if they weren't involved with the playstation version. Maybe the playstation version is the only version, I don't know.
But since you are discussing in bad faith, I'm really done now.
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Not gonna lie, this honestly feels more like manufactured outrage. Might just be because I have no personal connection to the game/franchise but this just feels like normal localization stuff. I mean, the character is supposed to be a kung fu master of some sort, right? Maybe they wanted to not lean into a pervy kung fu master caricature and decided to make him more straightlaced (possibly to not run afoul of Chinese censors?) Who knows, but making this into a whole political correctness spiel seems like a reach.
How plot important is this character anyway?
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You don`t know 3 thing:
- He win the fight (she angry because she is beaten by 4x older than her age)
- tell her to "don t underestimate elder" and after that praise for good fight (and leave bandit live)
-
old men is disrespectful (more mocking for being angry) for the girl AFTER she been super disrespectful to him here direct quote:
PISS OFF, OLD MAN! (listen JP dub how angry she is!)
(again remember he is OLD MEN and never do this in JP)
Were you see "pervy kung fu master caricature" even in my language have this version and is means more: "No need to be angry time to cool off"
AND next bandit is polite to master AND receive more polite answers.
Worth mention there more examples of stupid changes: Pogo's one line, "Love", being turned into "Aieee". ("Ai", which is the Japanese word for love!)
And response person who work as translator: https://twitter.com/Ryuugamine_Ryuu/status/1550992502970368000 and other on YT comment (working translator) fearing to bad translation create distrust for clients
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Definitely but the previous screenshots definitely made it seem like he was hitting on a girl a quarter his age hence my 'pervy old kung fu master' comment. The context you've provided definitely makes more sense of the whole situation, but I still don't really see much of a difference (as an outsider) between the old master being polite to everyone and the old master only being polite to people who are polite to him first. He still beat her ass, she's still salty, and both cases have him basically mocking her in reply, just in different ways (the original directly, the localization through him treating her like a child having a tantrum).
As for the latter...yeah, bad localizations have always existed. Even for the big names in the business who really should know better. Maybe I could interest you in a nice, delicious doughnut? They always cheer me up. Jelly-filled are my favorite!
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Here some cultural note about JP: "Respect elders" In many JPs family is "THE BOSS of family"(higher than parents) you must be super polite sometimes create situation to "grandpa have last word not father". Same goes to Sensei (cheek how different teachers is treated in US/UE and how is treated in JP by students)
Even Persona 4 Golden have that reference were protagonist (Yu) fell "too intimidated to go inside the third-year students classroom.." when trying go to 3rd-year and get reverse response when go to 1st-year
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You do realize it doesn't change anything repeating the exact same thing over and over, right? I still can't figure out what point you're trying to make with it...
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The easiest to explain: America culture is NOT everywhere. Every culture is different (and I like leaning more) that why I want OPTION to choose what translation I want (literal or ālocalizedā). I don t mind find and learn new cultural reference or norm.
I still remember like some American been scared because we have some nudist beach.
And here some GOOD example to censorship remove cultural reference about Ame-no-Uzume a.k.a. The Heavenly Alarming Female in US version of the game: "Pocky and Rocky Reshrined" here full explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DahRQM-UW-k
And for "Live a Live" here some quote from "Niche Gamer" review:
Not everything is perfect. Regretfully, Live A Liveās localization took some questionable liberties in several scenes and a few in particular suffer badly. Akira in the near future no longer steals girlās panties as a means to show his juvenile antics, but now robs people of money and the mariachis in the old west no longer speak in a Mexican dialect.
Ironically, it is prehistory (which has no dialogue at all) which fumbles one of the more important translations in the game. This is the only chapter that keeps the Japanese voice acting because its mostly unga-bunga speak, and it climaxes with the one spoken word being āAi!ā, which is Japanese for āloveā. This gets translated as āAiiieeeeā, completely bungling the joke.
This could have been saved with the line re-rcorded with a different word that also means āloveā. It is a shame that this scene is lost in translation because it sets up a lot about Pogoās character and the entire thesis of Live A Live. Outside of these miscalculations, the English dialogue is very good and well-acted.
So close! to be perfect with only when we have option to choose translation
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There was a time that translator's liberty was welcome - it was even richer than the source material.
See: Vagrant Story, Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter, FFXII. The work of Alexander Smith is nothing short of legend.
https://www.usgamer.net/articles/vagrant-story-localization
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They did great job because they know were is balace. Don t try change context of speak.
One game (AKIBA'S TRIP: Undead ļ¼ Undressed) In JP Nina (protagonist little sister) add:"nii-ni" when speak to us(protagonist) in Eglish translator using portmanteau to create words like: "Bromero", "Broski""Bronic","Brotagonist" and that works good because do not change how we see Nana in game(and Nana see protagonist)
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Ok game I never hear: "Live a Live"gets re-make is nice (and caught my interest) BUT now I hear is been "Americanized translation" because is too offensive for someone...DARN IT!
https://twitter.com/iuntue/status/1550749350896320517
one of response is just sad:
We really need option like: "American political correctness version" and "Only translated version"
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