Does SG need to implement some "extra features" for givers to give away more?
Steam policies about gifts, and no attractive bundles from fanatical/humblebundle in April... that helps the decline.
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Bundles are bad lately. I've bought a lot less compared to last year.
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The thing I notice, mind you I been here since 2013ish and back then SG was pretty small knit community (small as in smaller than it is now). With that in mind I think now that its gotten more notoriety there are more leechers and farmers IMO. I see some people with no giveaways winning big games but I guess that's just the way things work.
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revise some change in lately
but for me is i reached my target for giving. how motivate me? maybe some badge or archivement in profile here :) about giving
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I think we have seen the 'peak' of giveaways because most of the bundles out there are for very low quality games.
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Last time you were talking about 50k giveaways in February.
It ended up being almost 90k:
https://www.steamgifts.com/stats/community/giveaways
Let's pretend cg did som changes to SG in late January, after your suggestions. I bet, that even if we would have the exact same number of giveaways as we had (87k in Feb, 97k in Mar), you would be here to boast about how "numbers were up" from the sub-70k numbers of January, "thanks to the changes".
As many already have said. The number of giveaways on this site depends a lot on the bundles being released. Right now we have a non-Steam bundle at HB = no fresh giveaways for keys from HB this week. If we get some good, cheap bundles with many games in May, numbers will be up again.
...but yeah, as skanda wrote, SG might actually be on the decline, looking at the number of comments and discussions posted per month... but with users moving away from the site, incentives won't help. Discussions and comments starting to take a dive somewhere in 2016, and nothing noteworthy about being able to gift games here on the site happened then, so nothing says incentives for doing giveaways would get those users back to being active.
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I think if you look here you will find the real reason:
https://www.steamgifts.com/stats/community/users
The number of new users has been declining steadily over time.
And users are constantly leaving (or simply stopping to user SteamGifts).
So if you have a smaller number of people joining and a steady (or even growing) number of people leaving - in total you have less active users over time.
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& most of them on Level 0...so probably "fake STEAM accounts". :(
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I think being new and being Lvl0 comes together :)
I'm not sure how "fake STEAM accounts" can join, considering an account needs $100 of unbundled games to be able to join SteamGifts.
Seems like a heavy investment, for the sake of a single fake account...
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Some people have been writing on Reddit, asking me to put more games on Level0...as they don't have enough money for leveling up...
But they did have $100 for the games to come to SG?
Anyway...I still think givers should be more nominated. Got an idea, thanks...
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I agree. About 85% of all SG account still remain as lvl 0 (even though the exist for months/years).
10% are lvl 1.
And only 5% are lvl 2 - 10.
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I think the decline are basically because of new Steam rules (gifting, profile privacy) and such. It's not SG that's in decline, it's Steam itself.
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IMHO the community has to "work" a little bit to have more GA's for everybody. We should:
- recommend Steamgifts to friends
- try to reactivate old Steamgifters via common groups
- increase the entrry level of your own GA's (a little bit)
In my opinion that should help to get more GA's for everybody.
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Your third point goes against the rest.
What new users see is a site where they can't win anything worthwhile unless they make a considerable number of gifts. The higher you put worthwhile wins, the more useless you make the site. In effect you drive away people who might one day become gifters by lowering the incentive for them to stay in the first place.
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I guess the idea would be that this way they are forced to make a giveaway, but we know how well forcing works as a form of motivation. Not too well.
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well, you are right as well. Of course there should be GA's which new users can reach... but as we can see in the stats, most of the GA's are level 0-2. And, afaik one give away brings you already to level 1. So I'd count that as a kind of "entry fee" for steam gifts
To me personally... starting gifting more happened when I saw cool games which were way above my level...
what would be your suggestion ET3D?
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It may be that most giveaways are for low levels, but that doesn't mean that they are giveaways worth winning. There aren't stats about what giveaways are made at each level (bundled vs. unbundled), but I know that a lot of gifters prefer giving trash at level 0.
So what new users see is a site where they have to work quite a bit (enter thousands of giveaways) to win games whose value is a few cents, or they can gift a lot of games and get to where they have a chance to win some better games. But at that point, a user has to ask themselves why they wouldn't just go ahead and spend the money on the games they want, instead of participate in the SG game.
Obviously it does motivate some people, but won't surprise me if a lot of users just drop off after realising that it's rather hard to win anything, certainly anything of worth.
What's my suggestion? I don't know, it depends on what you want a suggestion for. If it's for making users feel more welcome, I've advocated for years the option to limit a giveaway to people who won under a certain number of giveaways. More recently I thought that reducing the chance of winning in general as people win more could be a good thing. The more a user wins, the more they'd have to work to win more -- and then gifting and going up levels could help.
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Steam's ruling on gifts in inventory impacted my giveaways as I used to buy some, store them for a month then give them away as I'm unable to buy bundles.
I've always had around 12 pages of giveaways although many are games I don't want, I have 540 games hidden which will go up when i can be arsed to add them. I don't think there's any decline in the amount of giveaways from my point of view, maybe a decline in the quality of the games with all these really cheap bundle games doing the rounds but a giveaway is a giveaway at the end of the day. :)
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the sad part come from steam it self. They try to prevent any kind of exchange if you don't have a phone, if you are not friend, by making game's price higher than 50 cents.
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So, after 1 year, does anyone notice we are on a decline?
https://i.imgur.com/rf3orIw.png
justasking
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if you only look at that graph: YES, we're kinda dead.
if you know a little more about SG: all is flowing like on hot melted butter (fun included)
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Don't know about you, but I can't spend even 400 points per day. So not sure if that is OK for you.
But it's not OK for me. ;)
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got that, and it's a problem. i mean, it still is a giveaways site...
not that i spend much points, but i think is also a matter on how you "use" the site. here in Discussions, say, you have truly better chances at "getting" what you need (being that a game, a friend or just some fun) compared to just browsing/entering giveaways.
that said, really hope you'll find some inspiration, here around :D
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I did find inspiration to give away more than 300+ games. Didn't get that much back, but that's life.
Tried out here to tell admins to give "gifters" more of something...points in the amount of give games. That didn't work out.
So now I mostly trade games...& yes, I know some of you won't like to hear it. But it's just a better deal, then gift away here & not getting anything in return. Not even "extra-points", so you can participate in more gifting. ;)
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Ah OK, now it all makes sense. You made giveaways thinking you'd win more giveaways. To each his own, I suppose.
There are groups on SG centered around a handful of people trading games while patting one another on the back and calling one another "generous." Have you tried joining one or two of those? If your intent is simply to win more, perhaps that could be a route for you.
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If you unhide all giveaways there'll be plenty of opportunities to spend your points. Or pay people to make giveaways for you. Sounds pretty douche, complaining about people not making giveaways for you, winky face or not.
People don't send money to me daily.
I'm not sure if that is OK for you.
But if is not OK for me ;)
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Hi, well I've hide all the games I don't want to have. & yes, those are some 5.000+ shitty $1-5 games that I don't really want to have on my STEAM account. ;)
To pay someone to make giveaways for me? Why?
If you checked me you would see that I gave away more than a double amount of games, than I received. Oh, what a "douchebag" I'm! :D :D :D
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If you checked me you would see that I gave away more than a double amount of games, than I received. Oh, what a "douchebag" I'm! :D :D :D
Nobody talked about how much you gave, I was talking about you complaining about not getting enough. What I wrote, still stands.
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There's a World of difference between complaining & suggesting a change. Once you will see it in your life, when you get old enough. ;)
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Don't know about you, but I can't spend even 400 points per day. So not sure if that is OK for you.
But it's not OK for me. ;)
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I think you may want to put a \ before your # unless you wanted to yell
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kinda hoping it was intended also cause hella funny. read that this way:
https://i.imgur.com/HJKHyg4.gif
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I just wanna be part of this screamed conversation
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my only searches are group/whitelist, more than 2 copies and usually level 7+ and every single day I don't get even close to the end of each page.. I run out of 400 points in a moment and I still have dozens if not hundreds of giveaways to enter, and if I start to go on level 6 and 5 I'd need 2000 points per day xD
and I never ever enter trains or invite only giveaways otherwise i'd finish my points within one topic ahah
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Maybe if you add all the shitty games. But I have around 2.5k of games on my STEAM account, 4+k if you count in all the DLCs.
Got also some 5+k of banned shitty games worth $1-5.
So mostly I don't run out of points. ;)
& I'm level 6 with more than 300+ game given here. ;)
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well right now they released some kind of bundle with all the civil war, medieval battle etc. games and I ran out of points entering only those games, there are like 50 giveaways of them XD and I already own half of the civil war games! I have to enter only the giveaways ending in these hours and leave out all the others, like 120+ giveaways on group/whitelist ç_ç
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What? You didn't want to spend $4 for a bundle...you cheap bastard. :P ;) :D
Why do you bother with those? When you can get those easily... :/
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Although the once-free game giveaways are allowed, this decline happens. I saw SG struggled to maintain itself by giving up the quality of games which can be given away. The tide from Steam was just too strong to control.
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I asked them to give back points to giver in the amount of each game given, but no. That would be favorizing the givers.
& now we got decline & less than 50k given away games.
That's too bad. Too bad that these guys didn't see it & that they don't see it now. :(
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I've spent a total of 18p today and I'll get those back in 45 minutes.
What would I do with more points?
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Just enter everything!!!!!!
with trading cards - then make sure you don't play your wins - just farm them for cards, sell cards and buy another game that you will not play anyway!
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I doubt we've seen THE peak, I would guess it's A peak in the statistics.
Only time will tell.
But SG has been on fire a while so a decline wouldn't really be neither unexpected nor the end of SG. Just a natural balancing of things.
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Balance or not, we're in the decline. & nothing is going to stop that until we give back something to givers & treat them with more care.
As when you give away some money, so you can get a tax return on that. Same thing. ;)
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The issue seems the way you treat SG like an investment. One you're unhappy with since it's no longer profitable to you. Hence you turned to trading instead of giving, since giving likely never was your primary intent anyway.
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Well put, I couldn't phrase it that well.
It's not worrying about SG as a site, it's worrying about not winning enough from SG.
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Actually, it was not giving, as much it was "dumping it"...all those extra 300+ games. :D
I have something like 200 more games...but yes, I would prefer to trade them, as my score if for 369 traded got something like 469 games / DLCs.
But when the shit...pardon, games...come up to my neck, I'll dump them again, probably here. ;)
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Hahahahaha, damn son; You could serve me cold beer, rub my belly, and give me presents - I still wouldn't give more here just because of that.
I'm not here to receive, I'm here to offload keys that I've gotten on my normal everyday 'doings' that I don't want for whatever reason. I would say most of us are.
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He just doesnt understand that those keys dont fall out of the sky.
People still have to buy them, and I just dont understand how he sees everyone suddenly buying more..
This decline, most likely, is from outside reasons.. Namely - when steam removed storage of gifts and the number of bundles..
While there are people who have money to afford to buy games exactly for GAs, Id say most people still give away unused keys from bundles they bought for themselves. Or when they buy a good bundle for giving away.. If the number of bundles decline or quality of them decline people will buy them less and less. Just because OP says we should give something back to givers doesnt magically make more bundles that majority can use for GAs.
edit - regarding OPs statement that he cant spend all 400 points. Again - the same damn thing. When there is a good bundle - theres bunch of GAs and I spend my points instantly. When theres several weeks without any good bundle there is of course less GAs..
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If the number of bundles decline or quality of them decline people will buy them less and less.
Nailed it. :3
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I'm not even sure what would motivate people en masse to:
1: buy more
2: buy unbundled games
3: actually good stuff, not just the cheapest unbundled or bundle.
OP doesn't seem sure if he is worried about number of giveaways, or wanting good ones to himself. If someone pays me 10€ on paypal I'll buy a 10€ game to give away lol. If they pay 15€ for a 10€ one, even more! But giving more points for giving whatever could rack up the GA number on lower levels (like how the dollar bundles caused spikes in GA number when we had % point regeneration) but that would require some really damn cheap games because the games need to be bought. Also it would do nothing to GA quality.
One would think they thought their plan through in the past year+.
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hey you the Capitano.
you're wrong here (and really not alone on being wrong),
the more i read this thread the more i'm with our son, OP.
sayin' you're wrong cause you click green Enter buttons. that means "hey, SpaceCat, i'm open to receive it".
then you're wrong -again!- when you write offload.
SG, the world, really needs more peeps offloading the way you do. also related: personally speaking, you're "such a big lier".
the very wrong thing about OP is what you've said: really don't need more to give away more.
but, imo, SG is an investment. what changes is what you want to get from that investment, and usually changes while you do the steamgifts thing.
but you invest time, money, words... towards that goal: getting something back.
for OP: this Rcswe is one of my best investment ever done at SG. it costed me lotta time, lotta keys, lotta beer. but i'm very satisfied with the results.
have a grrreat week, The SG!
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Oh man... It's A LOT more than 22 hrs on FS!
I play those games when there's no connection, offline hours doesn't count on Steam.
The first FS is one of my perfect games, I'm going for the kill on this one too before I start on FS Harvest....
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He just doesnt understand that those keys dont fall out of the sky.
People still have to buy them, and I just dont understand how he sees everyone suddenly buying more..
Yabbut, there are alternatives to giving keys away at SG. Extra keys can be sold or traded through many possible methods. Meaning a decline here won't only relate to Steam policies and bundle offerings. Not only do people have to get the keys, they also have to choose to make them available here.
IMHO, once a community becomes established it tends to build an attitude among the longer standing. They believe that they know what the purpose of the site is, how it should be run and can become very judgmental towards newcomers. A newcomer can view this as exclusionary. I've seen it happen at many sites. Once the established successfully enforce their views and place, at the discouragement of newer bad apples, participation falls.
I'll update how many times I get blacklisted for posting this.
I have seen the enemy and it is us?
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That is true. I almost left after a few weeks because of mean users being quite rude and telling me basically that I shouldn't request anything or try any group before being there for months. Those people were speaking to me like I was stupid and shitty compared to them. Wouldn't have been for Gaffi who showed me the good side of the community, I would have left.
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+1
BTW, my post got me +2 of those "utopian guys" off my back...oh, do I feel lucky now! ;)
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One of the main issue with this topic is how loaded is, there are three parallel topics.
-Decreasing giveaway numbers (true from peak, but stabile for most of 2019, excelt june-july with weeks of no HB and only fanatical repeats + IG being bad. Also groupees almost out of business)
-Suggestion about rewarding with more points - would impact people wanting to win everything, but kind of .. they could just trade their game away instead of getting like half the point refunded, and using it to have ~ 1/1000 chance of winning. Not bad, just ineffective and not really good inventive IMO.
-OP's winking comments about how he would love to win more good games and how generous he is.
Furthermore, even his own suggestion would do nothing because he already said he doesn't have enough games to enter for. That just shows that the incentive does nothing to people who think about what they enter for and/or already went through quite some bundles and own some games. Basically whoever has the tendency to give is absolutely ineffected.
And genuinely, we're back at the main problem of serious lack of bundles. And OP repeatedly ignores this fact which is really annoying on the long term because after these years it's clear that outside of the "trader" groups people very rarely make giveaways for individual games, mostly for leftovers. Even if we could motivate 10 times the people to make giveaways for unbundled games, it would be negligible compared to the whole because leftovers dominate the site.
Even if 1000 people would suddenly decide that they want to give a good 5-10€ discounted AAA a month, it would have weirdly small consequences (Mind you, 1000 public AAA giveaways outside of its bundle period would be like a miracle fully unbundled even more).
People wouldn't even bat an eye for Mad Max, Shadow of Mordor or other relatively well-received games because they are old / was bundled-discounted a lot. Maybe DOOM or such would make the cut, but whatever, it would kinda be possible to find something. The monthly average was around 40k for the past months, 1000 good giveaways would mean 2.5% of that. Bundles would matter only if there would be crazy CV behind it, or basically costing minimum money, having quite a few good repeats and a new game that makes people buy it. We absolutely lack any bundle of that caliber, sadly.
Long story short: he lists problems and suggests changes, but they aren't as closely related as he thinks it is. Which is fine. It's just kind of repulsive how he starts with being worried about SG and somehow multiple times end up with that the motivation of people to give more is because he wants more to win. A bit too disingenuous about why caring about GA numbers so much, for me at least.
(even fully refunding points from GAs would do nothing if we would have nothing to enter before making the GAs)
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There are a lot of topic of generally new people on steamgifts complaining about the CV system boy encouraging to make giveaways. Do you think it may be related?
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They are at a start of their ladder, climbing up here...sure, it would give reward to them for every gift they give & to participate more with points...so yes, it suits a newer guy, who doesn't have much games in STEAM account.
It's not related, but it is the same problem. As it's easy to get people in,but not easy to keep them gifting & visiting here. ;)
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Hoping for a Valve to change & get better...now, that's an Utopian here. :D :D :D
But have to go, need 1 more key to trade. ;)
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The site dies slowly but surely, anyone who denies this fact get drunk with cold water.
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Imho number of giveaways made by regular users is stable. Massive peaks we don't see anymore were caused by developers giving away massive amount of keys. It's not gonna happen in that scale anymore because of new valve politics towards keys generation + turning off trading cards for games dropped for free in large amounts.
Another thing is that if you hide games owned (especially if you have 3k like guy above or 2,4k like OP or 1,3k like me) you see less of games.Add to that filters and you see giveaways for couple of days on your front page... which is totally fine! I don't need to spend all my 400 points all the time. I just enter games that I will enjoy - and I still win more that I will be able to play in near future.
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Mhm, the only time I actually run out of points is in the first days after a new Humble Monthly (when I am on pause). On regular days I spent between 0 to 100 points which has been the case long before the 'decline' (actually ever since I have started joining giveaways only for games that actually interest me, instead of joining everything for the +1 like the moron I was).
I don't really care for more incentives in regards to my own giving. To be fair, when I started I was enticed by the high level giveaways for AAA games but with time I stopped thinking this way. Thinking about it, you could say that now I make giveaways primarily for attention (which actually sounds kinda pitiful) like when it's my birthday/cakeday/promotion at work, and I kinda want more people to know and share my joy (by winning some games from me - which sounds a bit better!).
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Last few months I've been talking about less & less games giving away. Some people did not see the decline (or refuse to see the logic). Last time we had less than 50k of games given away was in Aug 2015.
So I'm a little sad about the things that are happening, so had given away in Apr more than before (20+ games in Apr, while I gave away 100 games from my start on SG). But only that won't change the numbers...
Truth is visible now, that we passed "the peak" of giveaways & that SG is in decline in the amount of games give away.
So I created this poll just to see the remarks from the public. Express freely how you see the recent decline in games given away.
Give some proposals, so that admins & moderators can implement those.
Refine some ideas between us, before implementing in "suggestions"...
etc.
Hope that we can all grow & all give away more.
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