No they don't. Aside from the bonus Steam key Valve has no control of your access to the bundles whatsoever. That's why the Humble pages have "DRM-free" written all over them.
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I played some steam games offline yesterday because my router died. worked fine (have the newest steam version)
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Yeah you can, but interesting thing is - I am pretty sure there is a requirement now that you "first" have to online to play offline these days. Not sure how it works exactly (probably you have to be online "once in a set period"), but I read quite some hilarious stories on the case.
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sounds interesting... do you have a link or something - would like to read up on that. I'm really not a big fan of the whole licence issue/we will ban you from all your games.
but I guess it also depends on the law in your country.
in germany for example, lawyers always say that the licence agreement is generally void, because you cannot read it before purchasing the product. but there isn't any real hard law on that issue, as the provisions laid down are too general in this case. and we aren't so big on common law.
I'd be very interested to see how this plays out in the case that the German federal supreme court would force the legislative to write up a clear law on the matter
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I "think" I saw them somewhere on RPS I'll try to remember where it was and re-post it here. I agree that laws of a particular country effectively make a difference on "how" you deal with EULA and other licensing issues.
In Russia now we have rather vague laws concerning intellectual property. But if such a thing like the one described on RPS happens, you are effectively on your own, I believe. The consumer protection is not so strong here in general. Also due to lots of legislative/legal problems and shifts induced by political actions it is hard to say how the laws will be applied in the future and where it would all go.
This below is interesting, even though it's not what I was looking for:
Someone on one of my numerous game communities is currently living in Russia.
He used to let us pay him the russian price for a game, and then gift it to us.
He did this only to help, never earning any money with this.
He did this for a couple of years, until the Payday incident.
When Payday was released, he bought it. Then he offered to gift us 4packs.
But, when owning a game, you can’t gift 4packs. You can gift the game, but not 4 of them.
So we gave him our accounts, he would buy the 4pack, we would pay him the money back, then divide the 4pack between us.
Two weeks later, all our accouts (his, the one who gave him the accounts, and every person who received one copy of the gam) were banned.
We immediately opened support stickets with Steam. We knew why our accounts were banned, frauding taxes and whatever, so even though at first we feigned ignorance, we quickly acknowledged our faults and asked for forgiveness.
First the individual recipients of the games were debanned. Then the accounts which received the 4pack.
But our generous donator never got his account back.
After many emails, he finally got the answer about why his account was banned for this particular game and not for the many, many, many other :
Steam doesn’t care about you gifting games to people outside your country. They don’t care (much) about you using VPN. The reason they suspended all these accounts was that it was strictly forbidden to lend your account to anyone. The buying games part wasn’t the problem, it was the swapping accounts info.
Maybe it was the same for gimperial ?
(As of today, my friend’s account is still frozen and all his games are lost)
Another one:
I have to admit the system Valve has is unfair but even knowing that my games collection on steam (standing at over £3000) is on a knifes edge, i just can’t seem to hold back. The convenience is so nice.
Not only that, it’s just always there and you can always access it without a lot of hassle.
That did come to a stop one time when I had my account locked due to Paypal dicking around. I bought Evil Genius for £1.99. Now My account had a lot in excess of that but for that occassion Paypal decided to try take it out of the 2nd, the backup, account. Needless to say they put through a recharge or whatever to steam which in turn meant they banned my account. It took me around 2 weeks of constant back and forth actually saying the same damn thing to both paypal and steam around 15 times each.
Eventually steam just removed Evil Genius from my account and unlocked it again. The length of time it took was unreasonable since paypal errors like that have been occuring time immemorial and that it took me around 15 times of repeating things in even simpler terms that even a toddler could understand for them to do something as basic as say “we’ll unlock your account, you will however need to buy Evil Genius at the current price if you want that game still”. And I did, and I like the game.
And another:
The second is that I too have had my account access removed before because of PayPal and a game worth £3.74. Something happened with the PayPal transaction and I was charged for a game I didn’t receive and because Steam were unwilling to help me I raised a dispute with PayPal and this leads to having your Steam account disabled. Had I not pursued it further I would have lost access to 150+ games (and the associated money spent on those games). After much fighting and waving distance selling regulations about I eventually got my account back – but my PayPal account is permanently blocked from Steam.
One more (in case you still want to read):
Back in December just before the Christmas sale I found out my Steam account was suspended. I don’t use my account a lot (I don’t like Steam) so it could have been suspended for a few weeks before I actually found out. So, first off it would be nice if they sent you an email informing you when things like this happen to your account.
I went through the hoops they needed to verify it was my account. Write a support number on the sleeve with the CD keys for a retail game. Then they asked for a photo of the receipt for that game…that I bought 8 months ago. Amazingly I still had it, but what if I didn’t? Eventually all was well and they unlocked my account. This took about a week to get it all straightened out.
The problem is I still have no idea WHY my account was suspended. It was about a month between when I last logged in to Steam to the time I logged in to find it suspended. I didn’t receive any unwanted Steam Guard notifications. I don’t have any paypal or credit cards on the account. So I was curious and asked for the reason I was banned. The only answer I got was “for safety reasons.” That was the entire reply.
Concerning offline mode:
Offline mode is a bit wobbly, and even when working perfectly – it will expire by design in … something like 3 months at most?
Ok cannot find the story I promised so I'll just quickly re-tell it here in case someone reached the bottom in hope of seeing it. Long made short: A student guy went to stay with his mother during summer holidays. They both had Steam-accounts and games on them they wanted to play. His mother did not have enough money so decided to cut herself off the Internet. Now the interesting thing is the son could play his games offline without any problems, while his mother couldn't - she was asked to online first to play in offline mode! (I guess this is because 3 months/whateverotherperiodthereis was already over by that time). So in the end she had to go to an Internet cafe just to (re-)online, go offline, go back home, play offline. Fun, isn't it?
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As far as I read in PCGH 01/2012 (some German PC parts magazine), acceptance of the Steam EULA waives your right to file an action. However, in 02/2012 they state clearly that the legalese contains a lot of gaps, and, since it is only available in English, it is incomplete and unsatisfactory in the eyes of the German law. However, while this means you would be able to either claim restoration of your account, refund of your money and/or compensation, this would still be difficult because of different countries and legislations, etc. Very often, not worth the cost/hassle.
Also, should Steam ever cease to be supported, Valve would (according to their EULAs) commit themselves to provide standalone patches to all of their games. I bet ya there's a load of people waiting for that to happen.
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Some kind of bad information there... You own CDs, you don't own the rights to the music on the CD, but you own that CD and despite what the RIAA wishes you to think, you have a right to use that music for non-distributed personal use as you see fit (i.e. 'ripping' that CD to MP3/FLAC and playing it on a device).
Just as the books on your shelf are yours to do with for non-distributed personal use as you please.
Games you buy are yours to play, however you have no right to play them online. That is a privilege which can be revoked for any reason or no reason at all.
This is why some people refuse to buy digital 'goods'.
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Here's the thing, I'm fine with being banned from playing online with games. That's not an issue for me. But Steam takes away your ability to play the games AT ALL. And it's not just one or two, it's all of them. So even if your issue is with a payment for a $1 DLC for one game, you'll lose access to every game you own, online or not. TF2 or Skyrim, it doesn't matter.
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Steam is entirely different though. You don't buy a physical medium and are thus subjected to Steam's TOS for everything you buy. It is absolutely a good reason to NOT buy from Steam, but a better reason for consumer protection laws for digital goods.
I would love to see a change to Steam's rules that you CANNOT have your account completely blocked/terminated, but instead restrictions placed on individual games and/or steam features (friends/trading/etc) based on the violation, since Valve should have no right to remove your right to play a game you paid for.
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I would be entirely fine with that. Like when there's a chargeback. Instead of locking the entire account, why don't they just take the games that had their payments taken back? They've proved they have the power to do so with things like the DiRT3 incident. Hell, I'd even be fine with having the games I hacked/did whatever to get locked out taken away completely. Better then having your library taken from you.
I know that they are legally able to, but it just bothers me that they can and do lock out accounts. There aren't many reasons I can see to lock down a person's access to every game they own. Even the person in the article who did break the agreement should have just had their gifting/trading rights taken away to begin with.
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He sent 70 games from Russia. Sometimes for money. I wonder why he was banned.
Yes, Valve's support team sucks as usual, and are partly to blame for what is probably a failure to communicate, but if it smells like a turd, sometimes it's just a turd.
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Did you also accept paypal for half of the games, like he did? Are you also Russian and sending them to American or British friends and saving them tons of money?
They don't care if you're paying a normal price and gifting it away. They're still making the money. They care in this this case because Russians get games super cheap, so are losing a lot more money than normal.
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No it is not. Besides, if you all would read the article carefully you would see Valve explicitly said banning had NOTHING to do with him gifting games bought in Russia. And that is what makes it bizzare - Valve doesn't say WHY he was banned. This was "kind of" the point of the article. Ban - no explanation - quesiton: is it for trading games from Russia - answer: No - no explanation. >.>
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"And it’s especially of note that gifting for money is not mentioned in the SSA."
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That's my big issue with Steam, and why I really don't like using it to be honest. The fact they can basically press a button for any reason, real or precieved, and lock me out of games I paid for and have nothing to do with what I may or may not have done doesn't sit well with me. Valve isn't the only company to do it, nor are they the worse. But they still can and do. Frankly, it's something that does play a major factor when I try deciding if I should get a game for console or PC. If I get it for console, the most they can do is make it so I can't play online (which I don't do anyways). With PC, it can be taken from me for whatever reason Steam sees fit.
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I think everyone missing the point. Yes they can revoke all your games- they have that power. You have to break the rules for them to do that. They do not have to power to revoke your licence without due cause. It says it in the EULA. Look if you lose all your steam games, you've done something to deserve it. The Steam platform is setup to be a good thing for delopers and customers and thatès why it is so successsful. There's no crazy big brother. Besides all software is like renting. You didn't create it and no one owns any software everyone just leases it. Gimperial was commiting fraud, it's pretty clear cut to me. It says not to sell steam keys for money. . . you need to get licence for it. He was also in breach of many other laws.
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I don't agree. I think Valve is abusing their power. They can ban you anytime without any reason or for any reason, it's the same, because they will tell you nothing and you can do nothing about it. They can do that because they have millions of other users who will be buying from their shop in the future. They absolutely don't care about one single customer - or at least this is the feeling I have from reading such articles. I don't know if it is true, but if it is then it is very, very, very bad system. EDIT: I think even users who are breaking the rules deserve to know why they were banned. I am scared that I will unwittingly break one of their rules in the future and they will take away all my legally buyed games. Or I heard after your account was hacked then you can get it back but if you are VAC banned because of the hacker, you are VAC banned for good. What justice lies in that?
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Steam tells you why. They are a company who bound by law to make money. I'll say it again bound by law. Meaning it is not in their interest to lose customers. Aka you have to go out of your way to get your account banned. OR steam is breaking the law. How do you not get that people who lose thier accounts are doing criminal acts. If you got you qaccount hack then you can prove it. But still wjhy do we just assume that steam's like fuck these people I'll bann them for no reason? has the internet gotten that retarded?
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But the article was telling something else... I don't know who is getting retarded if internet or someone else, but I am uneasy when I am reading such articles. And if you think I can do anything when Valve is going to commit crime on me, then I don't think so. I agree that it is in their interest to behave correctly to their customers, but that doesn't mean they cannot ban your account for petty reasons. I hope they wil not do that. Maybe I am only overreacting after reading such article - I hope so.
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no the eula ties them by law too. Meaning they cannot ban you for petty reasons. Infact if they do they are breaking two laws: breach of contract with you and the contract with thier governing body. Any international corperation i bound by law to not impeed thier abily to gain revenue. Most people don't know that.
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That is interesting, but if something is enforceable by law, it doesn't mean everyone can easily enforce it. I know a case with Blizzard when they banned a player of Stracraft 2 because of cheating. In fact he was never using any cheat but his computer was attacked by malicious software. It was tough to get his account back - support wasn't very communicative. Maybe only because they did such a mistake with more players they revoked their ban in the end.
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it's legal term is corperate fruad. any comapny knowngly and willing hars a persons assets is chargable with fraud. That's why they only perma ban peopl who have commit fraud. Ie selling keys. See when an autorized third party sees a key they are, infact commiting fraud. They are harming steams finantial state and misreprestening thier state (aka saying they are in a position to sell thus said key). This is also a grey area b/c if you profit via a trade it could also be seen as fraud but because there is no finantial transaction and that steam has allready gooten them money for two steam items it isn't so. The thing is when a third party profits from a sale of steam property then thiey are in the shitter. see for fraud 2 things need to occur 1 deception and 2 a blockage of ones assets. that's where the visa versa is fraud. If steam said banned you for no real legal reason then they are decieving you and blocking you of your assets and depreciating your value. Which is why this article is full of shit. it's pushing fear for thier own gain or just bad reporting.
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I can understand VAC bans preventing you from playing with people who are legit, but locking you out of your account, the games you've purchased included, just seems a bit too far. I can understand DRM and how it works, but Valve in this case went over the heads of multiple publishers and decided to shut a person down entirely. Even after they've lined their pockets with a good amount of money.
This shows greed. But the Russian guy wasn't at all innocent, either. If I got locked out of my steam account just because they saw fit, I'd test their EULA in court. Just for the hell of it.
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Yeah I knew this from when my account got suspended for a chargeback from paypal for something I had the money for. It's scary but also not just DRM but write down all your CD-Keys, those you do own.
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No, you just got subscriptions to access games. I got my account disabled when paypal decided to do a random inspection then charge back money without notification it said they needed to be contacted for info from steams side. Of course steam didn't do shit so the charge back happened and contacting support only gave me the same copy paste answers multiple times which were irrelevant. I had enough money to buy the gamess on steam I didn't sell games from Russia or other stuff. It took me nearly a month to get my account back while the only thing that could've easily prevented it was 1) no random inspection of paypal account 2) steam just replying to one of the 5 emails paypal sent to them. I told this support clearly and they didn't even read it. So 'get' at least games as possible on steam and don't use paypal. Being a loyal customer with over 350 games doesn't mean anything to steam and they'll just ban you and not read your support tickets.
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I've known for ages I don't own these games. For me to feel I own something I need to be able to lend it or sell it. With digitally sold stuff there's no guarantee I would even have access to what I buy in the future. I already lost access to music and e-books I bought because the service stopped or the format has died (and I lost my old copies).
When buying digital, that's always a concern, and it should lower the value and therefore price of the goods. It often doesn't (in fact, often digital goods are more expensive, except on sales) and I imagine it's because convenience trumps ownership.
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If the legal language is vague enough. It is. In theory they can say a play through on youtube has copyrighted material.
On another note, the OP is talking about limited agreements and not SOPA or PIPA.
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To everyone not carefully reading the article - please, understand. IF buying and gifting/selling/sharing/trading/youractionnamehere games between regions IS illegal on Steam it should be stated in the EULA/policies/whateverlegaldocumentsSteamuses. The problem is there is NO such statement, also, since Valve does not want to explain WHY the lockout happened (not just disabling trading/buying games but literally blocking access to what you bought and effectively legally own) WITHOUT STATING A REASON means there is something wrong with the system. Is buying games in Russia limited to only activating/playing them in Russia? Fine. WRITE IT. TELL US ABOUT IT. We should be playing on a legal field here not some kind of vague grey zone. Grey zones are always exploited by those having money and power. So, please, stop saying "it's illegal, because it's illegal" or "it (EULA) is like that because it was always like that" matters are much more complex here and RPS article stated that (e.g. EULA was always way too much in favor of the seller/copyright owner but only now we face the consequences - too easy to break the rules but too easy to enforce them as well).
P.S. I do not resell games from Russia, in case you are wandering, and do not plan to. This is a "bad" kind of business for me. But I do not like this excessive authoritarian control as I know all too well where it leads to.
P.P.S. Imagine another situation though - what if I would open a thread here "Let's make a pool of money for gifting - we put our money together I buy games from Russia, send/trade them to whoever is going to make the giveaway or make the giveaway myself, thus we all boost our giveaway numbers and be all happy". Can you imagine how controversial that would be under these circumstances?
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This has always terrified me-along with VAC bans (In relation to COD).
I mean, when I get cash (E.G: 75$) I'll spend it all (Sales etc). But i'm worried. I know this relates to HUNDREDS of dollars spent.
Also, some games come with CD keys.. we should keep those?
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this really has to do with the region that the user came form: Russia. We all know that their have been quite a few incidents over the years with user form that country scamming people, Trading games for paypal money ,and bending the rules. Valve is always watching Russian users just because of this. 1 2 3. they really only only go after Russian users like that poor guy who, out of the blue purchase tones of games and leaves them in his account.
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Best solution: Remember that Steam is still a DRM system, albeit one that offers conveniences such as a user community. As such, whenever you want to buy a game, shop around for a better price. If Steam's still got the lowest price, find out what DRM if any is on the versions other vendors offer, ask yourself how much you're willing to pay to have a copy that's DRM-free or has a different form of DRM.
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http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/01/thought-do-we-own-our-steam-games/
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