Do you have a "gaming PC"?
Adding more ram doesnt increase performance. New nvme drive on the other hand gives quicker load time in games.
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It does on games that need that extra memory - Just Cause 3 and Forza Horizon 3 & 4, for example. If a game is happy with 8GB, adding more memory won't make a difference, but for those games that become memory starved at 8GB upgrading to 16GB takes them from lurching and stuttering to a smooth 60 fps.
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I wouldnt say that has anything to do with performance rather then a min system requirement.
Almost like saying buy ram instead you dont need faster drive, and then make the counter argument that he cant install games larger than 120GB. Kind of speaks for itself, thats why I recomended faster drive instead.
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Well, the minimum requirement for those games is 8GB, but it's clearly not enough as almost everyone I've talked to with 8GB has had performance issues with those games, and almost everyone who's had performance issues with those games only has 8GB RAM. So in that sense having more memory absolutely results in better performance in those games, and I expect we'll see more games requiring more than 8GB memory.
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Perhaps, dont know what settings they run to need more then 8GB. But I doubt he can run those settings anyways concidering the rest of the hardware :)
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They're just really memory hungry, possibly because they're huge open world games. It's unrelated to in-game graphics settings, and even people with beastly systems (i7 + GTX 1080) ran into performance issues trying to play Just Cause 3 with only 8GB RAM. Forza Horizon 3 will straight up crash if it runs out of memory - I have 16GB of RAM, and I had to close out of Chrome to keep Forza Horizon from crashing due to running out of memory.
More memory doesn't help much unless memory becomes a bottleneck, but when memory becomes a bottleneck it's a huge bottleneck that affects everything else. It's a bit like faster memory speed - doesn't do a thing to increase your average FPS, but can absolutely smooth out frame time spikes caused by memory speed becoming a bottleneck and thus give you a smoother gaming experience.
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Going from 8GB RAM to 16GB will help a lot in memory intensive games (Just Cause 3, Forza Horizon 3 & 4, etc), and not much in games that are fine within the 8GB limit.
Getting a larger SSD is great, since you can put more games on there and they'll load much faster. NVME vs SATA doesn't really make a significant difference, so I'd go with whichever is cheaper and more convenient for you.
The biggest performance increase you'll get is from a new video card.
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I also work with virtual machines so SSD space would give me the freedom to install them there.
On the other hand, +2x4GB would give me extra performance for the virtual machines (I believe that SSD space sounds better here, doesn't it?)
A question for you, I've been watching videos about nvme and m.2 SSD. My SSD has 550 writting/reading speed and I see that nvme have from 2000 to 4500 (I found 3000ish speeds). You say it doesn't make a significant difference and I have seen loading times being pretty similar, any reason why?
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I'd say that in the case of the virtual machines, both RAM and a faster SSD would have the same effect. SSD would give you faster loading times in games (loading screens only) and large files, while RAM increases the response time when those files are bigger than your RAM. You WILL need more RAM in some time though, so that would be my choice. Windows 10 uses a huge amount of memory and I haven't seen a real performance increase going from HD to SSD in a normal office/light gaming pc.
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My SSD has 550 writting/reading speed and I see that nvme have from 2000 to 4500 (I found 3000ish speeds). You say it doesn't make a significant difference and I have seen loading times being pretty similar, any reason why?
Because there's synthetic benchmarks, and then there's real world usage. In a best case synthetic benchmark of transferring a gigantic file there's a huge advantage to NVME (M.2 is just a slot, and could be SATA or NVME). In real world applications, where you're accessing all sorts of small files, the benefits for a desktop user are negligible. Now, if you're frequently working with moving giant files around - large databases, video editing, importing RAW photos or ripping videos - then an NVME will significantly reduce those transfer times. But for general use and gaming, the benefit is negligible.
I love Forza Horizon and loved playing Just Cause 3, so for me 16GB is better than a larger SSD since I'll take slower loading times and smooth 60fps performance over faster loading times and terrible performance. But if you have no interest in those games, get the larger SSD since that'll speed loading times for everything else up.
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Okay then, nvme have become a no-no, thanks for the tips.
You said that the best performance would be with a better gpu? What about this one from this comment?
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/bg8Xp/it-minor-upgrade-disccusion#IttPz3V
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Please don't misunderstand, I'm not saying it's a no-no. There's no real downside to NVME, it's good technology. I just don't think it's worth paying extra for. If the choice is a Samsung Evo or Crucial MX500 SATA SSD or a no-name NVME SSD, I'd go with the Samsung or Crucial.
I haven't kept up with GPU prices and performance, to be honest, but a GPU is your best performance upgrade. I can look into them if you want.
And generally, 2xY memory is better than 4xY because most consumer motherboards are not designed to have all 4 memory slots populated. Thus by sticking with a 2x kit you avoid potential issues of the memory bus / voltage / whatever being exceeded. I've often seen motherboards with all 4 slots filled throwing up random memory errors, which result in random computer crashes (maybe once a week, but a random crash once a week is still really annoying).
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About the memory, my only options are making a 2x4 1x8 or 4x4. If 1x8 doesn't give me random crashes and I lose, say, less than 10% performance than using 4x4, I could do that. If not, 4x4.
About the gpu, there is a fight here between 1650 and 1660 (the ones with 4gb), a comment down here mentions 1660ti but I highly doubt about it.
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4x4 is what you should use, mixing memory capacity is a bad idea.
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My computer was running on a 2GB and an 8GB for a time. It's not a problem so long as the sticks have the same voltage and so on... preferably by the same manufacturer. It'll be a lot faster than it was before, but not as optimal as 2 sticks of the same size. My 10GB was mega fast compared to the 4GB despite the two different sticks hehe.
I did that because I hadn't the funds to go for two 8GB at the time, so I could get another 8GB stick later. There is a misconception that it will damage a machine. It won't. =)
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You can get a great gpu for $300. That's what would give you the most bang for your buck in your setup. The gtx 1660ti is $260, and the regular is $220, both a massive upgrade to your 1050 and also both quite lower than your max budget.
https://www.pcgamer.com/gpu-hierarchy-2019-ranking-the-graphics-cards-you-can-buy/
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what about a 4k monitor? I have no intentions to upgrade the gpu yet (pretty happy with it, tho it would be good to have one with CUDA enabled, something mine seems to not have).
Would a 4k monitor run good with my specs? I believe I already have a displayport cable.
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Would a 4k monitor run good with my specs? I
Buying a 4k monitor to go together with a 1050 would be an absolute waste of money.
If you find yourself hitting the 8GB RAM usage mark (which I would honestly be surprised if you are not, especially with VMs) upgrade the ram (2x4GB that matches if you can find it), if not ... I would probably go with GPU too before storage unless there are some games that you play that would really benefit from being on a faster drive.
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Gotta agree with MouseWithBeer, getting a 4K monitor with a 1050 isn't a good idea. That card is simply not that powerful. Even on low settings current triple A titles will struggle to keep 30 fps. It can probably run 4-5 year old games on 4k though.
I think investing in a better GPU is probably the best idea for now. Then maybe the RAM, Then probably you'll have to replace the mobo, as I don't think it supports newer ryzen CPUs or anything above i7. You already have an SSD, so I wouldn't prioritize that.
If you need the extra space for work, maybe just buy a used monitor?
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Already got a 60hz 1920x1080 monitor. The 4k monitor idea was outside the box, so forget about it :P
So it seems that most of the people (I also did a thread on a spanish site) tend to talk about the gpu.
Researching: 16050 seems like a very new released gpu, maybe I could get that one and sell my gtx 1050 (Google say that I could get at least +50€, probably more) and that could give me room for the 2x4gb RAM?
In the end I would have both gpu and RAM upgrade, and keep the 120gb ssd for O.S and main stuff.
Sounds right or could do better?
One thing that sucks a little, my RAM would be 4x4GB then instead 2x8. Which version would do better?
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This is a good plan. 4x4 ram is actually better than 2x8, at least in theory. In practice, the difference should be literally imperceptible.
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Sounds about right, if you can sell your 1050 for that much that would be pretty good, that could basically cover the cost of the extra memory. 1650 is a great choice nowadays too.
As for which type of RAM setup you should use, apparently 4x4 is better, but I don't think the difference is significant.
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Dual Channel vs. Quad Channel | 2x8 or 4x4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDKzCsC9Svs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EM0g0Szg_U
SSD vs HDD buy Crucial MX500 SSD or BX500 (500GB)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-gJRl6Fc4E
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He will not get quad channel with this CPU, thats only for workstation/prosumer grade CPUs.
4x4GB in this case will be fine, but 2x8GB is always better at high speed RAM (for a consumer, dual channel only CPU) because it is less prone to problems with reaching high speed (above 3600 MHz on DDR4).
At your CPU getting a 4x4GB RAM configuration is OK, especially as your CPU and motherboad do not support over 2133MHz RAM. Check first if the programs your are using are taking more than 6GB od RAM, if not, then I would think if you really need more.
As for the SSD, buy a NVME only if its not much more expensive than a SATA SSD (3000MB/s are not that much great in real life to spend 40% more money while beeing on a budget).
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Only get more RAM if you plan on playing a game that needs more than 8GB or you think you are using all 8GB now and really need more. If you are not using all your RAM now, you will not see any improvement going from 8 to 16GB and it will be a waste of money because you will have to buy it all over again soon when you upgrade your motherboard and CPU since a quad core will not be very good for gaming much longer if you play new AAA games.
Only buy a new SSD if you want more space. If you already have a fast SATA SSD, going to an NVME will not be a very noticeable performance increase. That being said, 120GB is really small and if you want to keep more games installed on it, than that would be a decent upgrade. I personally would get a 500GB NVME to save money and just put the OS and a few games on it since I don't keep many games installed at the same time, but that is me, you may want more space.
Your CPU and GPU are the weak points and I would upgrade those instead. If your motherboard will support an 8th gen I5, that will give you 6 cores, but I personally wouldn't just do the CPU, especially if you are also looking to spend money on more RAM soon. If you don't mind buying used, I think a used CPU would be a good investment in increase the life of the system if you are not ready to upgrade everything.
It may be better to just upgrade the GPU now and then when you have more money, do the motherboard, CPU, and RAM together and keep the GPU you recently upgraded to. If you care about gaming, the GPU will give you the most noticeable performance increase by a big margin.
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Motherboard added. I believe is a "low ish tier" one. I do not care about gaming in terms of graphics (I don't mind playing on medium-low).
SSD would be a 1TB if possible and maybe not nvme and just one of those 550/550 writting/reading SSD
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Your motherboard will only support up to 7th gen CPUs which means you will need to upgrade your motherboard, CPU and probably RAM together.
If you are on a tight budget, the 860 QVO from Samsung is really cheap right now in the US (not sure elsewhere), but I haven't read much about the performance or endurance of QVO yet. I know they are top of the line with their other EVO and Pro drives, but QVO has reduced the price a lot for large drives. The 1TB is on sale right now in the US for $88 shipped and has recently been on sale for $100-110.
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I suppose in theory QLC should be fine for most use cases. However Samsung doesn't seem to fully trust it, offering only 3 years warranty instead of 5 years which their TLC SSDs have. It kinda sounds as if they expect QLC drives to fail sooner.
So would recommend to go for TLC (Evo) even if the budget is tight.
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buy a 1650 super or Rx5500,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjBC9VBXCLg
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+1
The 1650 is a very good card for the price, and much better then the 1050.
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Not really. Your main bottleneck right now is your GPU, followed by your small amount of RAM. The CPU is fine for 99% of modern games as long as you're not trying to use a high refresh rate monitor.
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Do you mean I have some kind of wrong current configuration? I tried to not bottleneck anything back then, that would be extremely painful news.
About monitors, if high hz monitors are a problem I'm still using the classic 1920x1080 60hz and I don't mind using it. Seems like I may have to buy that 1650 and upgrade the ram at the same time? 1650 wouldn't work with 8gb?
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Yea your GPU and RAM are holding your system back right now.
A 1650 Super would work with 8GB, but you might still run into problems with so little ram. I'd definitely recommend upgrading both the GPU and RAM. Make sure you get the "super" version and not the regular one, there's a big difference.
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Seems like the best combination I can budget. I'm going to start the search for that gpu and the same memory I already have, thanks!
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I5 7400 + GeForce GTX 1060 6GB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhDhKb5gNL0
GTX 1650 Super vs. GTX 1060
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H54Dg1K3ItE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NZcRRfDUPA
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=gtx+1660+super+vs+gtx+1650+super+
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if you're dealing with a lot of VMs (especially if its more than 1 at a time), getting more RAM will definitely help. That way you can give the VMs the memory they need without the VMs or your main OS resorting to swap space. I have 24GB in mine, so it makes it really nice to just give all my VMs 4GB and not think about it. :)
That 1TB SSD mentioned here earlier is also pretty sweat. my son's getting one for his PC (little punk). If that wasn't so cheap already, I'd say you could look to get a couple smaller SSDs and just RAID them together to give you the storage space too.
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with $300 you could upgrade to a Geforce 1650 Super and 16gb of ram at the same time. Together they would improve performance significantly.
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Upgrade to 16GB of RAM first, then your GPU. Your CPU is powerful enough.
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This is the way I prioritize builds, depending on usage.
Productivity: CPU/mobo > RAM > Storage > GPU
Gaming: GPU > CPU/mobo > RAM > Storage
The first thing I'd upgrade in your rig is your RAM, and then your GPU.
I'm not sure if I should get a 2x4 or an 8GB memory but since I already have a 2x4 I would try to find the same memories and speeds.
You should get another 2x4 to match your current sticks (including timings).
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Thanks everyone for the comments, learned some useful stuff today.
Decision: Will start to research to buy a 1650 SUPER gpu and add 8gb for a total of 16gb. I may close this thread in a few hours unless there is more to discuss, thanks again!
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ram upgrade would allow for extra tabs on the internet and multi-tasks, and some games might get a small boost.
depending on what games you have i would say a 120/144 hz monitor upgrade would be the best Experience
it would last for years, and dont bother with 4k as you will need a new GPU for it.
storage upgrade is always nice but it will add nothing to performance
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Also I work with virtual machines
How do you achieve that with 8GiB of RAM? :o
I have 32GiB and sometimes (rarely but still) I do run out...
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I do struggle a little bit, on the other hand, some people did recommend me using a server pc for virtual machines, sadly, I'd like to keep it in one machine instead buying a whole new one.
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Your PCs allow you to play in 1080p+60fps1% on average graphics settings in AAA games?
No --->>> just upgrade to GTX 1660, 1070 or GTX 1660 Super (I dont see any sense in 4gb VRAM for future).
Then completely change platform (MB+CPU+mem).
And remember:
If you start upgrading and it drags on for a couple years - you will run into new technologies, such as DDR5 and new CPUsockets
2017 - end of LGA1151 v1 (max i7-7700K)
2019 - end of LGA1151 v2 (max i9-9900K)
2020 - end of AM4 (max ~4950x)
2020 - end of DDR4 and PCIe 3.0
New gaming era for 2020-2027: 8C/16T + 32gb (my forecast is based on next gen consoles 8C/16T + 24gb).
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1660 seems to be 50€ more expensive than 1650, would it be a problem if I stick to the 1650 super?
Also, wouldn't a 1650 be better for my actual i5?
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http://prntscr.com/q41r4g
http://prntscr.com/q41rau
https://gamegpu.com/action-/-fps-/-tps/star-wars-jedi-fallen-order-test-gpu-cpu
p.s. https://tpucdn.com/review/zotac-geforce-gtx-1650-super/images/relative-performance_1920-1080.png
https://www.techpowerup.com/review/zotac-geforce-gtx-1650-super/27.html
pss http://prntscr.com/q41v68
http://prntscr.com/q41vib
all pics are 1080p max/ultra settings
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Neither RAM nor a faster SSD will help you anywhere near as much as a new GPU. Just get a 1660 and 8 GB more ram.
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https://www.amazon.es/VGA-GIGABYTE-GTX-1660-GDDR5/dp/B07PDT2H55/ this one? I see a few gtx 1660s
about the ram, I will try to match the existant ones. Both things will hardly reach 300€, could afford that.
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Yeah that one is fine, you could even look a little more and fit a 1660 Super in your budget like https://www.amazon.es/PNY-GeForce-Tarjeta-gr%C3%A1fica-Ventilador/dp/B07ZPK84RY/ref=pd_sbs_147_6/262-6868151-2071366?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B07ZPK84RY&pd_rd_r=12087938-e568-4753-9f7e-c39db8a267eb&pd_rd_w=E5tPr&pd_rd_wg=eXFYl&pf_rd_p=71620895-af79-4429-92c2-a38434153b95&pf_rd_r=1Y9304BAFYEE59HY9F9F&psc=1&refRID=1Y9304BAFYEE59HY9F9F&tag=gdext-es-21
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i5 7400? that's your problem right there.
i'd get a decent gtx 1660 super. that should be pretty good bang for your buck.
more ram won't hurt obviously but at the same time a better gpu will get you more performance in basically all scenarios.
120gb ssd is tragic but nvme stuff doesn't come cheap. you could get a sata crucial ssd if you need more space. i've got one 256gb for windows & stuff and one 1tb for my steam games. it's sata but still faster than any hdd plus sata cables never hurt anyone.
also if you want an nvme ssd make sure to get an actual nvme ssd. there are some cheap m.2 ssd with a simple sata interface. garbage!
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UPDATE (RAM)
So I opened my PC and discovered that I have a 8GB RAM instead 2x4GB.
Taking a closer look, it is this one CRUCIAL bALLISTIX ddr 2400 MHZ 8GB (color: white/gray) The prices are 40/80€
https://www.pccomponentes.com/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-red-ddr4-2400mhz-pc4-19200-8gb-cl16 for example; says 70€
https://amzn.to/2OXwrig says 33€
https://amzn.to/2YcvfvH 37€ ... what's the diffence, if I'm missing any?
I've got a question, since it is "black friday" yet, I may be able to get a 16GB RAM for the price of a 8GB RAM (I have to find one that runs at 2400hz tho). If I do that, will there be any problem with my PC? (Having 8GBx1 and 16GBx1) or it would just be even better?
Resume:
Option A) Buy same RAM 1x8GB
Option B) Buy a 1x16GB ram adding a total of 24GB (8+16) (please explain if this is even a valid option or it may crush my pc)
Thanks again.
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it should be okay, if it both runs on 2400Hz
I have an 4GB+8GB (12GB) and it works perfectly
edit best to be of the same brand
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Option B) Buy a 1x16GB ram adding a total of 24GB (8+16) (please explain if this is even a valid option or it may crush my pc)
My previous laptop had 4GB + 2x8GB, with different sticks (different frequency and brand). Doing weird stick combinations is quite fine, worst case scenario is you'll lose a little bit of RAM speed in benchmarks, which you most likely won't ever notice in real life performance.
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The €70 stick is a "gamer" RAM with a heatsink... but so is the €37 one. It's the exact same thing, in fact. The €33 one is bare.
The difference is that PC Componentes seems to be inflating the price, as €4-5/GB is a normal base price for DDR4 RAM.
Having a heatsink or not on RAM doesn't really matter, unless you plan to overclock it, or show it through a transparent window.
As far as I know, the only (minor) setback of having differently sized sticks would be an incomplete (only 8 GB) -if not outright disabled- dual channel, leading to slightly lower performance, which you won't even notice outside of specialized benchmarks.
Different brands, and thus, likely, different settings, wouldn't be too much of an issue either, as the controller automatically adjusts them to the lowest common denominator, and depending on your motherboard, you might be able to set them manually anyway.
The "stick to the same brand and model" advice you often hear is to minimize chances of weird issues, though they're actually rare.
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Seems a lot people recommend the GTX 1650, which has 4GB VRAM. However memory demand goes up over time (i.e. newer games need more), so I'd recommend getting a card with 6GB minimum.
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If it were me, I would continue saving up more money (probably until the middle of next year when new hardware is coming out and prices drop for the current ones) - just enough to do a partial upgrade (cpu, mobo, ram) that isn't going to dead-end itself within the next four years. Depending on what you want to go with and AMD finally giving Intel a run for its money, team blue has been forced to slash their cpu prices in half. This is an opportunity you might want to take advantage of.
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Honestly, if somehow possible you should try to do both. 16GB RAM will help a lot in certain situations. But a SSD will speed up your whole system. Maybe if you settle for a 512GB SSD you can get both? I personally would see that I get those two first, then worry about a new GPU later. The 1050 is rather weak, but still alright for 1080p gaming.
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https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/cpu-z.html
You can use this tool to get the exact model of your current stick to match it.
When you launch CPU-Z (it's a portable application, no installation necessary), go to the SPD tab and then look for "Part Number."
Also, you want to go with 2 or 4 sticks, not 3.
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Update at the end.
Main specifications:
i5-7400 (intel)
gtx 1050 4gb
8GB RAM (2x4gb)
https://www.pccomponentes.com/msi-b250m-mortar
MSI B250m MORTAR
storage: 1tb HDD, 120gb SSD (550 W/R speed)
I'm looking for an upgrade that may increase overall performance.
Use:I use the PC every day for games, VS Code and for the management of a few heavy files.
Budget:Up to 300$/€ (no more) I prefer going for 150€ish maximum tho.
My own suggestions (only viable to do one of them, probably):
Add 2X4GB RAM so I can make a total of 16. I'm not sure if I should get a 2x4 or an 8GB memory but since I already have a 2x4 I would try to find the same memories and speeds.
Add 1tb SSD (nvme), I've seen a few for 120-140€. Since I only got 120gb of SSD I could take this one out(or not if I have space) and add a 1TB one.
I believe having a total of 16gb instead 8gb RAM would increase performance and I would just give up some SSD space.
Opinions, thoughts? Everyone welcome.
If I'm missing some info, tell me D:
Also I work with virtual machines.
Edit2: Games are not a priority.
If any of you have any question for your PC's feel free to use this thread.
UPDATE (RAM)
So I opened my PC and discovered that I have a 8GB RAM instead 2x4GB.
Taking a closer look, it is this one CRUCIAL bALLISTIX ddr 2400 MHZ 8GB (color: white/gray) The prices are 40/80€
https://www.pccomponentes.com/crucial-ballistix-sport-lt-red-ddr4-2400mhz-pc4-19200-8gb-cl16 for example; says 70€
https://amzn.to/2OXwrig says 33€
https://amzn.to/2YcvfvH 37€ ... what's the diffence, if I'm missing any?
I've got a question, since it is "black friday" yet, I may be able to get a 16GB RAM for the price of a 8GB RAM (I have to find one that runs at 2400hz tho). If I do that, will there be any problem with my PC? (Having 8GBx1 and 16GBx1) or it would just be even better?
Resume:
Option A) Buy same RAM 1x8GB
Option B) Buy a 1x16GB ram adding a total of 24GB (please explain if this is even a valid option or it may crush my pc)
Thanks again.
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