It's not bundle, it's FREE game. And free for all.
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I agree with OP. It's a limited number of free games, for a limited amount of time. If you're one of the lucky few who get the game, good for you. If you already have it and want to share it with others who couldn't get it, why be damaged if you want to do so?
Plus, after the promotion ends people will still pay the 'real' amount to get the games so why would those people have to be damaged as well when deciding to give it away?
I "get" why this rule stands, but seriously now. People get games for cheap prices and give them away here to get more CV than they've paid for. Should they keep track of sales as well and reduce the CV earned for the game? Should they ask for proof of purchase for games you decide to give away so that they can decide how much CV you get from it? It's a ridiculous rule. They can "disable" creating giveaways for certain games that are currently being given away for free by third parties, for as long as that giveaway continues. After it'd end, people then should be able to do whatever they want with their copies.
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And then you'll start giving away free games for full CV after "disabling"? I don't think it's a nice idea for real contributors at least.
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Allowing these, would actively encourage the very worst type of people on here to swipe untold numbers of the LIMITED stock of these games in order to farm CV.
I think the rule is far from "ridiculous".
Do you actually think that disallowing giveaways for the duration of the promotion would in some way prevent people stockpiling a heap of keys to use the moment they are able to make giveaways again? Remember that for each duplicate key taken, someone else who does not already own one of the games is likely to not get one at all. It's a flagrant abuse of a very generous giveaway, and there really is no reason to encourage that sort of crap.
I can see that you haven't thought this one through at all.
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All the Amazon games that were given for "free" during their Indie Store launch are also on the bundle list. At least they're consistent.
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Just Cause isn't a bundle game either and a bunch of other games that were massively discounted or free. Steamgifts staff make the rules, they will not change it. I think they told you as much the last time you had a 'bundled' game to give away.
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Grid 2 was added to the bundle list from the facebook game and I think they've got 10k copies to give away. Though Faerie solitaire wasn't added from their free giveaway (though it was on their previously) There's a few exploited games on there too. It's hard to say how many copies they'll actually be giving away but both are going to almost certainly end up on it.
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So you are making an argument that there should be no CV. Interesting. You feel you should dictate how or why a person does a give away or somehow have the moral high ground that you can judge others and their reasons for a giveaway? hmm..
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There are a lot of people who want to get rid of the CV system, including me. Unfortunately, we were outnumbered the last time a poll was taken many months ago.
Regardless of who wants to get rid of CV or not, the comment you responded to mentions nothing about the CV system. He just says that you should be giving away games out of generosity, not to play the CV game. How is that an argument for eliminating CV?
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Read your own comment. " He says giveaway should not be about CV, how is that an argument for eliminating CV". Think about it.
The OP was not about questioning a person and judging their morals based on your belief of why a person should give away a game. It was about a system in place and its definition vs utilization. Judging a person and deciding to tell them they are good or bad people for why they give a game seems well outside of the boundaries of SG.
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Actually you are incorrect. Giving away games for CV value is against the original intention of the site and has nothing to do with how "they are good or bad people". Once again, a staff member can comment here. I can also find a post by CG stating this, but I'll have to defer this until this evening since I have to head to work.
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How am I incorrect? Please, lets have a staff member post that the original intent of Steamgifts was to sit in moral judgement over a person to decide if they were good people for giving a game. I would love to hear that comment.
You do get CV value for giving away a game. That is the way the site is set up. Should you do it just for CV value? That is up to you. It does not mean you will win more games, it does not give you more chances to win games, it does not give you more points to submit for games. In essence, CV has no real value.
But if it has no real value, why is it regulated so fiercely but arbitrarily?
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How am I incorrect? Please, lets have a staff member post that the original intent of Steamgifts was to sit in moral judgement over a person to decide if they were good people for giving a game. I would love to hear that comment.
You do get CV value for giving away a game. That is the way the site is set up. Should you do it just for CV value? That is up to you. It does not mean you will win more games, it does not give you more chances to win games, it does not give you more points to submit for games. In essence, CV has no real value.
But if it has no real value, why is it regulated so fiercely but arbitrarily?
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Let me explain this by using an example (x$ contrib giveaway =entries ~win chance %)
0$ = 4000 0.03%
0.01$ = 2000 0.05%
30$ = 1500 0.07%
30.01 = 500 0.2%
50$ = 300 0.3%
100$ = 150 0.7%
1000$ = 25 4%
5000$ = 4 25%
So, if you have more CV then you can enter giveaways with less entrants what gives you better chances of winning something. Therefore CV does give people something worth boosting it (this is the "missing" value of CV).
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I thought you were looking for a logical argument in the OP? I'm pretty sure that doesn't involve putting words in my mouth and trying to argue against something I never said or remotely wanted to say. I said the original intent of the site was not to give for CV value. I pass no judgement on whether someone is good or bad based on what they do or dont do. Please read and process my posts in full before replying.
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I just realized that you were trying to goad me into saying things I would not mean to say. My statement "He says giveaway should not be about CV, how is that an argument for eliminating CV" is logically sound so you are trying to cover for yourself by diverting the argument considering that I never once mentioned anything about morals or about some action being "good or bad".
You were also diverting Luller's argument in the first place, considering that he never said that CV should be eliminated.
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I remember more than a year ago people hinting that there's a change coming to the contribution system, site improvements too... Well, no wonder staff members are dropping lately.
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Yup, there were definitely staff members hinting at drastic changes. Now it's been like 8 months...
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Ominous post from 7 months ago
Both staff members hinting at drastic changes are no longer staff members o.o
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Well, you said some ominous stuff around June/July so you only have 2 or 3 months left on the timer!
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Discretion, y'all. It's how private projects have functioned since the beginning of time.
I'm sorry that you aren't able to receive full CV for a game that you purchased with legal tender. OWAIT
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+1
you only need highly specific solid line black and white mindlessly enforced rules where you turn off your brain if your organization is large enough many in it won't have one anyway. steamgifts mods have brains. so its more guidelines than actual rules because it can stretch and grab something that technically doesn't fall under the words of the rule but definitely the spirit, or exceptions can happen for the other way round.
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"We created a list of bundles and abused games with start dates." - cg
They aren't the first "non-bundle" games to be added to the list, they won't be the last.
"Bundle List" is just the easy, unofficial name it has.
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As a support member, do you have some quick look into some statistics - mostly about how many $30+ CV giveaways are being made everyday as public/private giveaways (but not group ones - those are unaccessible, while private giveaways could be puzzles), compared to, I don't know, $50+, $100+ GAs?
Seeing how 'everyone' cares about CV, I wonder if number of public GA justify all those whining...
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I find the best thing to do in such a situation is to just let it ride. Pretty much everything I do in life is bound by rules. Some of them are rubbish rules, yet I still (mostly) adhere to them. If I were to get worked up about such things I would send myself to an early grave. Just let it go brothers and sisters, let it go...
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Do you feel you are somehow morally better than people that you can sit in judgement? Please point to the part of Steamgifts where it asks you to qualify why you are giving a game. It is not your right to judge why a person gives a game. What's worse, a person who gives a game for CV or a person who feels they have the right to judge others?
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No, I disagree. Not with the concept, but that it is a rule. I have never seen that rule anywhere in the FAQ. Again, I did not make the CV rules or create CV. So if CV is given and there are rules to explain it, then it is reasonable to believe it was created to fill a need.
Many people give gifts and want a thank you, nothing more. But that is still SOMETHING. Some people want you to be happy for getting a gift, that is SOMETHING in return. Who here is so perfect they have the right to judge a person for why they give away a game? You?
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Actually, the original intention of the CV system was to reward people who gave games away, people who gave away due to generosity. It's been warped in such a way that all people care about is CV nowadays. I think bobofatt can comment here to confirm?
Then again, if you're not going to believe a staff member, I'm not sure who you will believe.
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I was thinking of "Do not ask for any sort of payment/exchange in order to enter a giveaway. This applies to group rules as well." I remembered it applied to one of the common arguments here. turns out I was thinking of that "groups with ratios" thing that comes up every so often
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Two questions
What would abusing CV earn you? More games? No. More entries? No. what would you gain?
People abuse the CV process a lot. Create a group, have giveaways locked to the group. Basically give games to each other over and over and get full CV value. How many people with a CV of $5,000 dollars do you believe actually gave away $5,ooo worth of games?
The OP was more an exploration of defining bundle games vs games that are given away and how they are valued. It was not meant to question why we have CV or if CV is morally correct.
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The list is for bundled and abused games, not just games in bundles. This isn't so hard to understand. People just say bundle list because it's easier than saying "bundle and exploitable free or price mistake over 95% off list."
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Conveniently ignoring evidence detrimental to his standpoint is his version of an "intellectual" argument I suppose.
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They used to be part of a bundle a long time ago. It came along with BioShock 1 and 2...XCOM too I think...and some other games. I think it was on GameFly back then.
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Yes, and the Amazon and Gamefly packs are not the reason why they're on the bundle list. As you can see for yourself, they've been placed on the bundle list starting October 9th 2013, since they are currently free from GMG.
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From the OP
"=========================================================================================================================
Now, there will be a few people who can't handle a civilized discussion and will go off the deep end commenting on this topic. There will also be people who can take an intellectual view of the topic and offer counter arguments or supporting arguments. It is not a life or death issue, please discuss politely. Thank you, looking forward to the debate/ discussion ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for reading!
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It is exploitable. End of discussion. Bundle games are not exclusive to bundle games, it has a bigger range in this context. Please close thread.
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Ironically, I have been trying to log onto the site to vote and get a free copy of CIV 5. Started trying last night at 10 PM EST U.S.. I have not gotten onto the site yet. I'll give up in a while. The amount of time its taking to get a "free" game is much too expensive, lol. Will be cheaper to use the time better and trade someone for their "free" copy if anyone ever gets in again.
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Sorry you're having trouble getting what you "deserve."
See what I did, there?
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not bundled - even worse - exploited. There are people on reddit claiming they got dozens of keys for free - in bundle if you wanted to buy dozens of it wou would at least pay dozens of dollars - here - nothing. Be happy it's bundled, and not like usually with exploited keys totally removed from SG (Metro 2033 was ungiftable for months! ;p).
Also - cry me a river over your precious CV ;p
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Now, there will be a few people who can't handle a civilized discussion and will go off the deep end commenting on this topic. There will also be people who can take an intellectual view of the topic and offer counter arguments or supporting arguments. It is not a life or death issue, please discuss politely. Thank you, looking forward to the debate/ discussion ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for reading and the polite and intellectual nature of "cry me a river". Well done, you must be so proud!
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good luck on ignoring all the arguments anyone have given you, because "you're not polite".
I could say the same - your all arguments are invalid because you're not too smart (aka. you're an idiot) - yest still I referred to them - a thing that you cannot comprehend responding to anyone you don't agree with in this topic.
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When the promo started there were no site issues. So yeah - if someone started using it at the beggining he could easily get multiple keys, while right now you cannot get a single one. I grabbed just 1 key for my fiancee, so we could play Civ5 in multiplayer (I already had both games on my account) but it took me like 10 seconds to get it before sites lagged. So if I wanted I could easily exploit it to get dozens of keys.
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"The rule is BUNDLE GAMES."
That's not the rule, sorry.
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Talking about rules without knowing them.
Now seriously: From CGs post when the system started:
We created a list of bundles and abused games with start dates. It's a work in progress
and
Keep in mind, we'll continue to improve this system as time goes on.
aka
If the ones running and supporting the site with their work decide that something is on that list for a reason then it is there for a reason and that is valid. Just because its called the "bundle list" doesnt mean it's for bundles only. It never was.
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Mafia II and Civ V have an asterisk, but it is not a bundle game.
"1.The first major change is the way contributor values are calculated. In short, the update limits giveaways that might have originated from a bundle to 20% of your total value (Note: Giveaways created prior to a bundle always receive full value). Please review the threads from earlier in the week for the full details. Keep in mind, we'll continue to improve this system as time goes on. "
Someone might argue "but you can get it free". So what? There are tons of games people can get for free when they buy certain other games or buy hardware. The rule is BUNDLE GAMES. One easy question, is it or is it not a bundle game? It is not. Unlike a bundle game, not everyone can get it, it is a limited availability promotion (only a certain number of keys. Currently, you can't even get onto the site to vote. The bundle rule was put into place because people abused the concept of "pay what you want" to load up on bundles. This is not the same thing at all, completely different premise.
=========================================================================================================================
Now, there will be a few people who can't handle a civilized discussion and will go off the deep end commenting on this topic. There will also be people who can take an intellectual view of the topic and offer counter arguments or supporting arguments. It is not a life or death issue, please discuss politely. Thank you, looking forward to the debate/ discussion ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also, after commenting indicate if you got a free key. I did not. I have tried, can not get through the process. Thank you again for the polite and intellectual responses from those who respond in that manner.
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