Person A was in the wrong. Person B handled it poorly.
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Man, I should just delete my previous comment because you summed it up perfectly here.
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I think the missing key information here is HOW is person A buying this for cheap?
From what I can tell, person A is you, person B is someone named Jur and the group is "Group Buys" but even then, without knowing how group buys works, I still couldn't say if person A was doing anything bad.
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I'm sorry but what was Person A doing wrong? Maybe he only wanted some of the games from the bundle and wanted to sell/trade the rest off.
When I trade a bundle/key/Steam Gift I couldn't care less what the other guy does with the item. If he ends up turning a profit on it, good for him.
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This, unless it's against the rules of the group. Without more information like that, I can't judge either way.
In any case, B [edit]A[/edit] was rather polite about everything, which was a nice change from the usual screenshot-of-a-gamer-chat.
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I disagree. I think he was more condescending than you think. However, after seeing how much Person A bought it for and sold it for, his frustration is more understandable.
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I disagree. While Person A SEEMS polite in the conversation, his nonchalance also highlights the fact that he doesn't care that he's done something wrong. It's like he took a risk, got caught and shrugs it off. He obviously still does not feel any guilt given that he is posting the conversation and seeking public support on the matter.
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He said he was trying to buy two bundles and off-load the second.
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I still don't see the problem. When I traded full Bundle URLs in the past, I didn't care what the other trader did with the bundle after the trade.
If they wanted to break it up and sell all the keys individually, all the power to them. Our transaction is over, I got what I wanted; why should I be able to dictate what they can or cannot do with their bundle?
Unless the group had some sort of explicit rule about reselling individual keys, but at this time we don't know if that is the case.
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According to Person B (below somewhere), it is against the group's rules, so it is within their discretion to blacklist him.
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So I realized. And I appreciate Jur correcting me. I just don't think a blacklist was in order. But like he said, He has his opinion, and I have mine.
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Group Buys is a Steam group. They take advantage of IndieGala's happy hour system, so the hosts buy a lot of IG bundles at the cheapest possible price and sell them to group members at cost (1 - 1.5$).
Bundlethebundle is a website that allows people to split bundles. The host buys a bundle, usually keeps one or more games and sets arbitrary prices for the others.
Can you see the exploitation potential now?
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I didn't know the first part, but isn't Group Buys doing the exact same thing then? Or do they sell it a the same price they bought it for? They should add a rule that states that you must activate the bundles you buy then if they haven't already.
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Like I said, they do sell at the same price. But they don't seem to have a rule against reselling bundles.
I guess they just expect certain ethical behaviours.
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Person B here. We have a couple of rules which are under the thread "General rules".
We do not make any profit of this at all and it is all done voluntary. The bundles are even bought before people paid for their bundle.
If there are any questens, ask them or add me.
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Hi Person B. I was actually speaking in favor of the group, of which I am a member and a happy buyer of IG bundles. :)
Before writing my last post, I checked the "Member Participation Agreement", and I couldn't find anything about reselling the bundles. I also can't seems to find the "General Rules" thread you mentioned, so I suggest the group's position on the reselling issue is made clearer.
All this said, personally I have no further questions and I have to say I admire the way the group works. (thumbs up emoticon unavailable)
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It can be found here; http://steamcommunity.com/groups/groupbuys/discussions/2/846946588484222726/ It's under the "FAQ / Packs / Help" sub forum.
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It's the way IndieGala works, they created the happy hour system. Is buying 4-packs from Steam also unethical in your opinion then? What about sales?
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Game packs offer a small discount (generally no more than 25%, best case). $1 (or so) for a pack of generally half a dozen games is no comparison, I'm not sure how you can even think those two things are even remotely similar.
Paying the absolute minimum for bundles (Humdle, Royale, Gala, etc) is generally seen as a bit of a dick move (which is probably why they have the "beat the average" system to try and encourage higher payments).
If Group Buys like that take off, the companies involved will make too little money, will start dropping out and will eventually kill the system. The $1 minimum is meant as an incentive for the completely broke, not as a "You can, so everyone should" mentality.
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I mentioned game packs because, just like IG's happy hours, are part of the system as devised by the guys in charge (be it Valve or IG).
Bundle sites that don't want to use the pay-what-you-want model... just don't. See IndieRoyale and BundleStars, for example. Sites like Humble know that a number of people will pay the minimum, or the minimum to BTA, and can live with it.
Finally, and back to IG and their happy hour: I ask you a question and ask it to myself as well.
If what the Group Buys guys are doing, what is the point of a system where you can get 4 bundles for the price of 1, but only if you already own the bundle? Gift them in the literal meaning of the expression? I don't think so. What I think is that they are knowingly applying a 75% discount, like Steam does.
And to think about it, between stocking those for trading purposes, reselling them for profit and doing what Group Buys does, the last option seems the noblest to me.
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IMHO both are right, or better "within their own rights".
Person A should be allowed to do with his game keys as he pleases, and Person B should be allowed to blacklist anyone as he pleases - case closed.
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Person B here, I'll explain it a bit more as it looks like Person A/NebulaProphet only tries to blacken me.
GroupBuys is a Steam group where people can buy game packs together. We also do this for IndieGala's in a big scale, IndieGala June as 326 participants and 440 ordered bundles. The IndieGala June is sold for a price of 1,50$. This includes the price we pay for it and all the paypal conversion, at max we make a profit of a few cents which will be put into giveaways for our members.
What happened exactly? NebulaProphet ordered a bundle for $1,50 and tried to sell this on another website for $6+. Which is against our basic rules; "Selling bundle games for more money than you bought them is not allowed!" Did I do something wrong? No, some people could say I might have addressed incorrectly.
I want to ask a mod/admin to close this thread.
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He bought that shit from the group, and he joined the group which means he agrees to the group's TOS therefore giving the group the right to blacklist him.
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DRM? Come on. It's a rule based on ethics, which by nature are subjective. In addition to that, I'm fairly sure you're not allowed by IndieGala to resell those games anyway, so the DRM issue is upstream, if any.
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According to your logic, take steamgift for example, if someone won a GA and it's up to him/her to sell the game he/her won because he did won fair and square right?
No it unethical and it's included in their rule.
The group doesn't decide what you can or can't do with the stuff you buy. You can give them, scrap them or make a GA out of them or whatever you want. They just don't want you to make profit out of it as they're also aren't. I think it's a fair rule and should be abide.
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Technically, Humble Bundle is a "DRM" too then since when people buy from them, they are agreeing to their ToS that they will only use the code for themselves.
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I suggest we all agree DRM don't belong in this conversation.
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Lol, being mean won't get me anywhere:P
I thought that being nice will revoke the blacklisting. I was wrong :/
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You might wanna apologize and appeal. But that doesn't matter anymore. Moreover, making this thread won't help to get your blacklist revoked.
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The people who you buying the bundle from sell to over 400 people and using the prices right now, they would have spent $1.52 while only charging $1.50 per bundle, so their profit is minimum if at all.
If they were profiting I don't think they'd mind, but as it stands, you're letting someone else waste their time and then profiting from their work and effort. This time around they had to include a maximum number of bundles because someone had wanted to purchase 40 from them which would most likely have been traded or sold away. The same mentality that applies to him, applies to you which is, if you want to profit from the bundles, you can go through the effort of ordering it yourself.
I absolutely agree with them banning you and I imagine they'll add the clause "Personal purchases only" in light of this.
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Too quick to judge?
I had this conversation with a person. Who's in the wrong here?
Basically, Person A tried to buy a bundle or 2 for very cheap and sell some of the games on bundlethebundle.com. He was subsequently blacklisted because of this unethical behaviour.
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