TL;DR?
If there's something I've learnt, people can find any reason they want to be shit people. Even if you're just commenting on a giveaway to say thanks, some people (Note - Not the giveaway creator) sometimes take issue. Internet drammaaaaaaaa
Thanks for the giveaways though, Bump :P
Comment has been collapsed.
Some people blacklist people for saying thanks and some people blacklist for not saying thanks...
It's up to other people what they do - but not only does that get confusing I try and find better things to get offended by...
Comment has been collapsed.
From what I've seen of people blacklisting for saying thanks, they don't tend to do it randomly. They mention that they don't want people saying thanks in the giveaway and the reason they blacklist is more because they didn't bother to read the description.
Comment has been collapsed.
I was more on about general hostility, as well as blacklisting. It seems to happen quite a bit with people with many games too (Why are you entering, you've got enough already, so on, so on)
Comment has been collapsed.
Pretty sure it's exactly that.
Not reading the description & spam.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, those people are always amusing to see. Posting stuff like "Hey f-tards, you know saying thanks doesn't make you more likely to win right?" in a thread for a giveaway that's not theirs and they haven't even entered.
Comment has been collapsed.
When I see people, I just report and move on. I always feel guilty blacklisting, for no matter what reason. Some people learn their lesson after a suspension and change. I still make public giveaways with no restrictions, I haven't had a problem yet, but I have found people that were breaking rules, so I just reported them. Sure, support probably won't see the report for a while, but still. It's what I choose to do. ^-^ Also, thank you
Comment has been collapsed.
That is fine. I have respect for people who don't blacklist in the same way I respect vegetarians. But I couldn't do that either myself!
Comment has been collapsed.
Haha xD When blacklisting first came out, I was all over it, but then I noticed I started blacklisting more people for more reasons (being an ass on forums, really bad ratio, etc.), but then I remembered that people can change those things easily. I figured I'd just clear it out and just report anything bad I see. But I definitely have nothing against blacklisting itself. It's just not for me :p
Comment has been collapsed.
Heh, what heavenhairsixes said. Although I was vegetarian for about 7 years, vegan for 2. Now I eat meat again and goddamn is it wonderful.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh really? Haha, I wouldn't be able to live without meat. Probably literally .-. I don't eat much as it is, so if I stopped eating meat, I'd probably end up losing more weight from it (which isn't healthy in the first place, especially if you don't exercise) and I'd probably screw up my body more .-. Plus, I'd miss it to much. I love me my meat. But there's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian ^-^
Comment has been collapsed.
I still love eating veggies (fruit not so much) but I really missed meat. All kinds of meat but especially pig-based ones. Drools like Homer
Comment has been collapsed.
Ahh. I'm a major fan of all three xD I just usually don't get fruits or veggies :/ But I love them. Steak's my favorite meat, but I don't get that either xD But I like most meats.
Comment has been collapsed.
OMG new avatar! I don't know what to do with myself!
Does this mean no more cat GIFs?
Comment has been collapsed.
And some people want to remove the anonymity from blacklists ... :)
Best advice, ignore and block the blacklisted people. No point arguing with them. I mean, they're on your blacklist for a reason, right?
Comment has been collapsed.
Well this is certainly what I'm doing from now on...
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, it is your blacklist, you don't have to argue or justify anything.
Comment has been collapsed.
This is how I feel about it' as far as I know I am only on one users blacklist anyway and they are suspended anyway but it's still a little sad. But It's their choice I can't let someones dislike of me govern how I feel.
Comment has been collapsed.
So true. No matter how well you behave, there will always be someone who doesn't like you because of "reasons." The day I stopped trying to get everyone in the world to like me was the day I discovered true freedom. )
Comment has been collapsed.
Mostly what Hiro said, imo.
I don't consider myself a snob, but i more than likely wouldn't even indulge the debate, for the simple reason that i have a text file with a small reminder of why i blacklisted someone and i don't do it lightly. I certainly would be even less inclined to indulge them as to why they were blacklisted depending on how they addressed me regarding the issue.
Meaning, if they were to do it in a less than civil way, that would be just adding fuel to the fire, so... nope. I'd just ignore them and move on.
Would only consider it if they were really polite merely because of what was mentioned by Meow... as in, sure, some people may have a bad day or so and prove to be better than they were when i blacklisted them. But by complaining (especially showing entitlement) instead of asking politely they would be making me feel reassured of keeping them blacklisted.
Just my 2 not so short cents. :)
Thanks for the train! Gonna check it out now. ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
I should do that but I'm so lazy.
Oh well, if they're not re-gifting they must have a been a special kind of asshat to get my attention.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, as i said, i don't use it lightly. If i blacklist them for other than re-gifting / scamming / any other form of similar rule-breaking, they surely have been at least asshats enough for me to consider not wanting to give them games.
I mean, not so long ago, there was a guy that caused a lot of drama here, because he was a very special kind of asshat indeed.
GA creator added him to gift him the game and the guy treated him like dirt saying he didn't want adds, etc. Even had on his profile something the likes of "Don't add me for no reason, not even if i won a GA. F*** Off."
And in case you missed that, i'm not exaggerating, if that wasn't the exact wording, it was very similar. ;)
That's just one easy example of someone more than deserving of a permanent spot in my BL. But like i said, that's my opinion. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah no I remember that. Shit like that nobody should have to deal with.
Comment has been collapsed.
Is the best thing to do indeed, another good advice, if you create public GAs, always do them with at least LVL 1+ restriction, you can balance this with invite only GAs and some group ones, this certainly doesn't solve the issue, but it helps to minimize the leechers and the abusive ones.
Comment has been collapsed.
So now if a user got blacklisted by mistake, there goes any chance of clearing his name in your eyes?
And if he was blacklisted for a reason, he can't know a reason in a chance he will change his behavior?
That's all just great...
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not infallible and I'll always check if I made a mistake - or if people have changed their ways since I blacklisted them.
I'm just not engaging people in discussion or argument anymore. It is a shame because I did come to understandings with a few people in the past - but they were very much the minority and overall I feel my efforts were wasted.
If people don't like it then they are more than welcome to seek the services of another gifter instead. I don't feel any obligation to talk people into changing their behaviour so that I can shower them with games in the future.
Comment has been collapsed.
This. They're on there for a reason and there's no point wasting your time. You have your reasons and they're not entitled to them :p
Comment has been collapsed.
I keep meaning to ask:Is your avatar a female Dwarf?
Comment has been collapsed.
Sagani from Pillars of Eternity. Yes she is a dwarf. :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I love Dwarves and they've been my favorite fantasy race for years(as you may have guessed from my name;)) and am usually fairly good at spotting them. Sagani is a cutie, imho.Still need to buy PoE.
Comment has been collapsed.
They do tend to carry similar characteristics over universes. :)
If you like that type of game you should definitely grab it. I enjoyed it but I haven't played many games in that genre prior.
I don't think I'd be able to play it at higher difficulties though. x_x;
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh I love rpgs like Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and PoE. I just haven't been able to afford it yet:P Waiting for a great sale.
Since you enjoyed it, you should give gog.com a look at those titles. They have rereleased them in Enhanced Editions but the originals can be bought for a song!
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah I have a GoG account. :) I got Fallout 1&2 from there a few years back.
Someday in the future I'll definitely grab them but at the moment not really something I can do.
They might even turn up in a bundle yet. Patience for everything.
What I'm really looking at is getting Planescape: Torment.
I think with Torment: Tides of Numenera being as successful with kickstarter they might even release a new edition of the game.
So just waiting to see what happens.
Comment has been collapsed.
PS:T is great but I haven't played it since it came out...and it is indeed possible Beamdog will do an Enhanced Edition of that as well.
T:TON is a game I hope I can run on my mid-range laptop:)
Comment has been collapsed.
I was 7 when the game came out... even if I had access to it, it would have gone way over my head. :)
I can't imagine it not running on mid-range, I'd be surprised if it didn't run on low-end machines too.
Comment has been collapsed.
I've just heard that POE doesn't work on a lot of systems even though it's not really a graphics-intense game, so I figure TTON will be the same.
PS:T goes on sale on gog an awful lot, so you should get a chance to own at least the original hopefully:)
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm surprised by that. Would have thought this game would be workable on just about anything with the right settings. Though it is very pretty.
Comment has been collapsed.
Blacklists should be public.
If you're too afraid of someone finding out you've blacklisted his sorry ass, well, don't blacklists anyone. They still can find this out, even if it means they should go onto your profile and check your GAs.
And is current BL system better just because you can find out the guy who just won your GA blacklisted you monthes ago?
Comment has been collapsed.
LMAO I'm not afraid of anyone on the internet.
Besides they'll probably find out if they use the forums and try one of the puzzles I make anyway. :)
I still don't think blacklists should be public though. Publicly excluding and ignoring people leads to harassment. Even more so when they're a bag of dicks who are already known for being little shits. :)
Honest to the greater being I cannot fathom why people get so worked up about being on a persons blacklist. Me personally, feel free to blacklist me because I couldn't give two shits about not being able to enter few giveaways.
Perhaps I should ask you why you're so afraid of not knowing whether you're on a persons blacklist.
The only reason I can possibly think of is that you are one of those little shits and you want to go around being a little shit to people without consequence. That's not true though, is it?
Or maybe its because you're so scared that one of the 7 billion people on this planet might just not like you. In which case there's no helping you.
If we make blacklists public it goes directly against a rule on SG anyway. The one about not calling out. Suddenly we find out that someone is on multiple blacklists it could spiral out of control for that person, regardless of whether they deserved to be blacklisted in the first place.
It's funny how it's always the blacklists that should be public.... and not the whitelists though. ;)
As for people entering giveaways, that's down to that person. We don't need monitoring just because of a minority.
Comment has been collapsed.
make them public and most people will check friends/staff profiles to add blacklisted users without any good reason.
not saying blacklist sharing isn't happening right now, but it will make things worse.
Comment has been collapsed.
Personally I would have no issue with public blacklists. If I was afraid of people finding out they were blacklisted I'd just stick to whitelist giveaways and not draw attention to myself. Or not make giveaways at all.
I'm just sick of the behaviour of certain individuals acting like spoiled entitled brats.
I still can't imagine that public blacklists would end well though. I'm imagining somebody collecting 500 baboons and sitting them all on top of those machines that fire tennis balls and then aiming that each other and then force feeding them all laxatives. I think that is how public blacklists would work out in the short term at least.
Comment has been collapsed.
We've already had small showmanships of that.
Off the top of my head, someone once posted a pastebin document of someone else's BL here, where it contained his username, saying he had no idea as to why and that the user's BL had an insane amount of users and that he was going to BL him too. Others in support (sigh) said they'd do the same.
I may have a lot of reasons for blacklisting someone (some of which not all may agree), popularity or lack thereof definitely isn't one of them.
Comment has been collapsed.
I would accept you suggested instead that when you BL someone, their GAs no longer show up for you.
Much like when you tick 'Yes' in the '1. Hide giveaways for games you already own?' in Account Settings, but in an automated way.
And before someone says it could be exploited by turning it off and on again, just so you could enter their GAs and then BL them again, there's a relatively simple workaround.
Since it was your choice to BL them, after you remove them, it should be a whole month before you can enter their GAs. Simple and effective and no harm for anyone, since you'd know what you'd be getting and it would still be your prerrogative.
I for one, if i had a larger BL than i actually dom and accidentally entered a GA for someone i blacklisted, would feel terrible, worse even if somehow i won. I wouldn't want to, period. Not out of spite, out of sheer principle.
And yes, if i somehow deemed someone i have there, worthy of unlisting, would be ok with not being able to enter their GAs for a whole month, even if they could immediately enter mine. I'd very much prefer it, trust me.
Comment has been collapsed.
Being public would cause all kinds of drama, I think the mods may have it correct in keeping them privet.
Comment has been collapsed.
I blacklist for the same reasons you do, yet if someone asks me why they are blacklisted (which has only happend once until now), I don't see a need to discuss it with the person. I mean, I will or would tell them why they are blacklisted and then they can accept that or don't, but I won't make a fuss out of it. That spares me a lot of trouble. It may seem a bit harsh, I know, but I just like to think that I don't have to explain anything to anyone. If I don't want a certain person to enter my giveaways, then that is my own personal decision. Like I said, that may seem a little harsh to others but that's just how I see things.
Comment has been collapsed.
My brain hurts... blacklist and let blacklsit, that is my motto...
Comment has been collapsed.
bump can't even check the whole thing, a LoL match just started
Comment has been collapsed.
won that match, woohoo!
With "blacklist" being swung around the forums so much, I'm glad I can count the members of mine on one hand.
People will blacklist/whitelist for a bunch of wildly varying reasons - explaining yourself here is not a must.
Comment has been collapsed.
I should make a spreadsheet with reasons for blacklists, but I'm too lazy.
Comment has been collapsed.
ah its easy, if someone ask why you tell him/her just: "For reasons!"
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't care about the hidden giveaway, but I would like to say that you mention more than one thing about blacklists that I agree with. I really like trains on the forum, but getting into discussions with blacklisted folks as to why they can't enter my giveaways is just killing the fun of making them.
Comment has been collapsed.
Bump for blacklisting! Mine is growing steadily... I've recently started adding users who win my giveaways and never even say thanks or appear to be grateful. And yes, I'm talking to you, too, high-level users!
Thanks for sharing.
Comment has been collapsed.
Can't seem to figure out the code, and for that alone you're going on my black list... but since you spent a lot of time and energy to make this easy, but hard to find... I'll put you on my white list... can you do both? well, I'm going to try!
Comment has been collapsed.
Haters gonna hate. It really isn't a healthy thing to care about what some random internet duchebag thinks about you. You contributed enough games to this community to deserve the right to choose people who gonna end up on your either black or white list. Much love and sympathy to you, and thanks for the giveaway.
Comment has been collapsed.
Very nice train, I enjoyed the ride :) Thanks a bunch!
Oh and a cat picture!
Comment has been collapsed.
sad story bro, I have read all and I don't know how I can cheer you up or advise you :/
btw bump for solved :p
Comment has been collapsed.
It's your games, paid with your money, earned with your time. You decide who to give them, don't feel bad about blacklisting. If you don't feel to argue simply don't do it
Comment has been collapsed.
I got blacklisted but hey, is it really worth it arguing with strangers on an internet video game forum? Nobody is really "entitled" to anything in here (even though I dislike that word), and blacklisting is just one of the few ways users may exert control over their giveaways, so why not, feel free, the most that can happen is that you get blacklisted back.
Comment has been collapsed.
Potato seems like a reasonable option, i will go with that... Also i dont quite see the point of this thread, beside the puzzle. I dont really think that you need to explain yourself as for why you blacklist someone or why you dont want someone to win, i am in your blacklist and even though i dont know really why, i wont ask, if you say you have a list then i certainly must have done something. Anyway, people tend to be rude and on the internet even more, dont take it so heavily and try to live happy ~
Comment has been collapsed.
I actually took on the entire community regarding the ethics of blacklisting, which ironically only led to me being blacklisted by hundreds of people. I don't blame some of them, since I displayed a complete lack of decorum in the thread. Anyway, feel free to peruse it here. I had planned on returning to it, but at this point it would be necrobumping (and I've grown tired of arguing about blacklisting). At this point, my opinion on ethical blacklisting is that one should only blacklist if one has a justified reason for doing so based on evidence of breaking the rules or toxic behavior in the community. I've resigned to explore the issue any further.
Oddly enough, I don't seem to be on your blacklist. Thanks, I suppose. Have a great day.
EDIT: I only entered a few, since I felt it would be unfair to enter into ones I'm not really interested in just because of good odds. As an aside, you have great artistic skills!
Comment has been collapsed.
I had a quick look through the thread. I'm a bit overwhelmed with messages right now to go into detail but I think my opinions would certainly differ on a few issues.
I'm trying to be 'fair' but fundamentally I'm not obliged to make any giveaways here, let alone make giveaways for any specific user. So if I don't have a giveaway for a specific user to enter for whatever reason that user isn't losing anything that they are somehow entitled to. So what is the problem?
I don't have any problem with your own beliefs, by the way. I just wouldn't subscribe to them personally.
Comment has been collapsed.
You may not be obliged to make any giveaways, which is true, but if you are going to give away, shouldn't you be fair to the entrants? If you exclude a user without a valid and justified reason, your charity is inequitable. It is still your choice to give away to whomever you please, however you please, so long as it is within the rules; but if you are excluding others from participating in your charity without a valid reason for their exclusion, how is that fair?
The issue is not one of entitlement, for nobody is entitled to enter into your giveaway, but rather one of fairness. Unless you have a valid and justified reason for excluding the person via blacklisting, is it fair for you to be blacklisting that person?
Comment has been collapsed.
In the real world I like sports and have played cricket, rugby and football at various levels. I was never very good but I'm increasingly crap now due to various injuries and also eating too much. So I'm increasingly getting called on as a referee.
Those are times when I feel an obligation to be fair and where 'fair' is something clearly defined. With most other things in life 'fair' is something rather more complex. For me Steamgifts is one of those more complex things.
I feel an obligation to follow the rules here and for me that is no issue. That I feel I have no further obligations is important. As in all things I try and be fair - but without a sense of obligation I may well have other considerations and priorities to balance against that.
Additionally 'fair' is quite relative. What I think valid and justified you might well not agree with. What you think is fair I might not agree with. Whose idea of 'fair' should I be going along with?
And where I think you are most badly going wrong is in making assumptions about charity. If I'm being charitable I help people who need help. Giving what are essentially luxury items to random people on the internet for me has nothing to do to charity.
I love computer games and in the past I may have enjoyed computer games even though my circumstances were such that I didn't have money for computer games. If that makes any sense. And I may have told myself that I would try and make things right in the future.
And so to me what I'm doing here is more about karma, and it is to that principle rather than simple benevolence that many of my actions can be attributed.
I'd ramble on a while longer regarding matters such as whether an expectation of fairness is just another form of entitlement and my thoughts as to why blacklisting seems to be relatively demonised compared to other forms of exclusion - but I'm afraid I have to go and do some work now!
Comment has been collapsed.
Excellent points on fairness and "charity". Well stated.
Comment has been collapsed.
It is true that you have no obligation on this site outside of following the rules; however, that does not mean any decision you make is fair and just. You may have no obligation to be fair or just, but it is still best if you are, and people are still allowed to point out the inequity of others' decisions.
To treat fairness as purely relative is to deprive it of any meaning. If there is no established meaning and criteria for fairness upon which we can all agree, your appeals to fairness are meaningless. Without a base, what is "fair" is anything you please for it to be; it would essentially be an excuse for any behavior whatsoever. That is why people agree upon what is fair and just. Why do you disagree that it is fair to others to have a valid and justified reason for blacklisting them?
Would it be fair if another blacklisted you without any valid or justified reason? For example, if a user blacklisted you because he thought you were a poor artist or didn't like your avatar or presumed what type of person you are because you use deviantART, would you believe it is fair? It is their giveaway and blacklist, so they can do whatever they please with it so long as it doesn't violate the rules. That does not mean their decision isn't still unfair. It may be their right, but they exercised their right in an unfair way. As I have often stated before, just because it is one's right to do something, that does not necessarily mean it is right to exercise that right. That is the foundation of propriety and, to some extent, ethics: you do what you do because it is right, and abstain from what is not right, regardless of whether you possess the right to exercise it.
And where I think you are most badly going wrong is in making assumptions about charity. If I'm being charitable I help people who need help. Giving what are essentially luxury items to random people on the internet for me has nothing to do to charity.
That is a problematic definition to use for charity, especially since the concept of "charity" is so broad and, at times, conflicting. I point to my recent post about it here. I have nothing to add to that argument.
And so to me what I'm doing here is more about karma, and it is to that principle rather than simple benevolence that many of my actions can be attributed.
With all due respect, rational and justified decision-making is a more reliable means of ethical conduct than does appealing to a spiritual, demonstrably false karmatic force. If you mean karma in the spiritual, Indian sense, then I would caution you to employ it as a means of justification under any circumstance. It is an inherently unethical approach. If you haven't already, I recommend reading about karma. It is a nice idea, but it is ultimately founded on a fallacy.
If karma, and not fairness or justice, is what drives your actions and governs your decisions, then we are at an unresolvable impasse. All I recommend is that you appeal to karma, not fairness or justice, when justifying your decisions because karma is anything but that.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'll certainly try and write more if I get the chance, but there is one fairly fundamental issue that I would like to raise.
Within the context of this site and with regards to blacklisting there has actually been no agreement to what is fair and just. There is absolutely no established meaning and criteria for fairness upon which we have all agreed. Fairness within this place is indeed entirely relative.
As a perfect example before replying to your first post I took a look at your thread 'Excessive Blacklisting: A New Problem' and one of the first things I saw was that one of the things that you believed blacklisting should be used for was 'rule breakers'. Which I personally consider unfair.
If you are talking about people who are breaking the rules of the site then I will myself blacklist people who I see breaking certain rules for reasons of my own. But on many occasions I would report someone to the moderators and admins to be dealt with accordingly - fundamentally to also blacklist someone would be to risk punishing them twice which would be highly unfair in my opinion.
If you meant people who break the 'special' rules that some people set for individual giveaways then that is no fairer than the rules that were set - and I have seen plentiful occasions where such rules seemed to me quite unfair.
Your other given reason for blacklisting people was 'sharing puzzle answers' which is against the rules of the site and something punishable by a suspension and for the reasons given above something that so far I have always considered unfair to also blacklist people for.
Now I don't see anything wrong with you thinking that is what blacklisting is for. It is your decision to make and if you blacklist people for those reasons and think it is valid and justified based on what you think is 'fair' then that is your business.
But when I personally think your reasons for blacklisting are so fundamentally unfair by my own standards I'm having a lot of problems with a lot of the things you say. If nothing else it seems to me clear evidence that 'fairness' is indeed relative and that there is no such thing as a singular or global standard for fairness in blacklisting.
And additionally I'm basically having a really hard time accepting that if there are global standards for fairness you are anybody that might have a clue about them or be in any position to lecture anyone else. And I'm pretty much entirely unable to accept any arguments that you are building on foundations that I believe to be entirely unsupported.
Comment has been collapsed.
Furthermore, as I currently have a bit of free time on my hands I'd like to make a few more points. Starting with your question 'Why do you disagree that it is fair to others to have a valid and justified reason for blacklisting them?'
I have said nothing to that effect. I can accept that it is fair to others to have a valid and justified reason for blacklisting them. I have simply said that 'fair' is a complex and relative thing - as evidenced by the fact that I believe your 'fair' reasons for blacklisting to be unfair. And I have questioned my obligation to be fair to others.
With regards to refereeing one of the football matches that I mentioned it would be my obligation to be scrupulously fair and I would do that even if it ended in a team winning that I felt didn't deserve to win. But without feeling those kinds of obligations towards giveaways that I have made on this site if I saw someone that I felt would be an undeserving winner according to my own criteria then I would blacklist them without worrying too much about 'fair'.
I have found myself to be blacklisted by others for reasons that I consider to be unfair. But I have been quite easily able to move on with my life as I accept that person surely had a reason for doing it that was important to them. Which of us was 'right' was unimportant, simply that at that time it was that other persons decision to make.
That you consider my definition of charity to be 'problematic' is irrelevant as are my low opinions of your concept of charity. My issue is with you making baseless assumptions with regards to my motivations and then judging my behaviour on the basis of those false assumptions.
In fact, throughout the various points you have made I have been quite shocked by your ability to treat your own opinions and assumptions as facts and then start building standards for other peoples behaviour on top of those while completely disregarding other peoples opinions, values and beliefs.
In conclusion I have been left feeling rather hostile towards yourself.
Comment has been collapsed.
LOL, I was one of the primary ones that got into it with you... guess who DIDN'T Blacklist you.
Disagreeing with me isn't really grounds for a BL... even though our "discussion" was even pretty belligerent.
Comment has been collapsed.
Bump so I don't get blacklisted. :p
I dunno, just do whatever you think is right I suppose. I'm lucky in that I've only had one person ask why they were on my list and I ended up removing them as they'd done some things to redeem themselves.
Comment has been collapsed.
So a while back I started making giveaways. And the first batch I made were public giveaways with no level requirements. And certainly some of the games went to people who seemed nice. But I couldn't help but notice that some got regifted or simply vanished without trace. And I had to chase some people who didn't mark the games as received and it turned out they didn't want the games because they thought they were bad games or because it as a waste of time activating them because of their VAC ban and so on.
And for a while I maybe felt like a dick for going to the trouble of giving games away to people who didn't even want them. And I resolved to start experimenting with ways to maybe focus my gifting towards people who weren't such assholes. And I have experimented with various kinds of giveaways with varying degrees of success. And I have experimented with whitelists and group giveaways but I would feel a little guiltY about entering public giveaways if I made no public giveaways myself.
And I have experimented with blacklisting. Which I felt in theory was a great way of gradually focusing gifting towards the more lovable members of the community.
It's fair to say that that my first blacklistings were fairly haphazard and I'm not a perfect person and I'll even admit that I blacklisted a few people for quite petty reasons while druNk - but all of those have been reversed and I'm now quite consistent about why I blacklist people and keep a list of why I have done it.
I'm blacklist people for badly breaking the rules or abusing the system (like multiple regifters). I'm blacklisting people for having a bad ratio plus something else naughty, because I wouldn't want to discriminate against people who just can't afford stuff (like people who have a really bad ratio and moan about only winning crap games in discussions). And I'm blacklisting people who I felt were rude or abusive or entirely unreasonable (because it would stick in my throat to give a game to somebody who had told me to kill myself). This seems reasonable to me.
But to me things began to seem unreasonable when I made a giveaway for 3 copies of Skullgirls and woke up the next morning to find that despite a large number of entries more people were moaning about being blacklisted than had actually said 'thank you'. And I spent half the next day Being harassed by and arguing with various people despite also being really busy in real life.
If somebody asks why they are blacklisted I don't mind checking if I have made a mistake or looking if they have mended their ways - but when I commit to giving a game away I don't also want to commit to wasting a bunch of time arguing with people.
More recently somebody took the trouble of contacting me after noticing they were blacklisted to tell me what a good user they were, to express their surprise and upset and to issue some vague but malevolent threats. I checked my list and saw they were blackListed for several things ranging from having a terrible ratio to scamming people in trades. And I also noticed that this user had never made a giveaway that I had been able to enter.
I had been excluded from every private group giveaway this user had made and apparently now this user had discovered that I had made a giveaway that he was excluded from he found this entirely unreasonable. Is it wrong to be pissed off about that?
In conclusion I'm now about bored of this shit. I'm considering how to move forwards on the matter and thought it would be interesting to have a discussion and hear peoples opinions.
But before replying I would like people to consider that whenever I have previously posted a rambling wall of text in 'puzzles' there has been something far more important going on than the topic that appears to be the issue.
EDIT - I literally have several hundred new messages. I hadn't quite expected that response. Clearly blacklisting is CONTROVERSIAL or else folks are just really excited about the other thing. I'll reply to as much stuff as I can but it may take a while.
To clarify a few things at the risk of making a wall of text even bigger;
I'll always check why I blacklisted people as clearly I'm not infallible. Although in the past I have had several productive discussions with people I blacklisted I don't feel able to commit to that in the future due to a recent onslaught of bullshit. At this stage I'm reluctant to even get involved in discussions when so many of them end up wasting so much time.
I'm pretty sure I know what caused the onslaught of bullshit. Participating in the 'midsummer madness' event clearly brought me to the attention of some people who hadn't previously noticed my more subtle giveaways. And also I added 'really bad ratio + only making private group giveaways while raking it in from public giveaways' to the list of things I blacklist for which upset a number of especially argumentative and entitled individuals.
I'm not upset or else I wouldn't still be making giveaways. I have vented. I have put my point of view across. I will honestly consider the feedback. I will move forwards.
EDIT2 - 890 messages since I made this. I have read them all but it is unlikely that I will be able to reply to them all. The main lesson so far appears to be that the people who have contributed the least to this community are the ones most likely to get outraged about what other people are doing with their giveaways.
Comment has been collapsed.