So a while back I started making giveaways. And the first batch I made were public giveaways with no level requirements. And certainly some of the games went to people who seemed nice. But I couldn't help but notice that some got regifted or simply vanished without trace. And I had to chase some people who didn't mark the games as received and it turned out they didn't want the games because they thought they were bad games or because it as a waste of time activating them because of their VAC ban and so on.

And for a while I maybe felt like a dick for going to the trouble of giving games away to people who didn't even want them. And I resolved to start experimenting with ways to maybe focus my gifting towards people who weren't such assholes. And I have experimented with various kinds of giveaways with varying degrees of success. And I have experimented with whitelists and group giveaways but I would feel a little guiltY about entering public giveaways if I made no public giveaways myself.

And I have experimented with blacklisting. Which I felt in theory was a great way of gradually focusing gifting towards the more lovable members of the community.

It's fair to say that that my first blacklistings were fairly haphazard and I'm not a perfect person and I'll even admit that I blacklisted a few people for quite petty reasons while druNk - but all of those have been reversed and I'm now quite consistent about why I blacklist people and keep a list of why I have done it.

I'm blacklist people for badly breaking the rules or abusing the system (like multiple regifters). I'm blacklisting people for having a bad ratio plus something else naughty, because I wouldn't want to discriminate against people who just can't afford stuff (like people who have a really bad ratio and moan about only winning crap games in discussions). And I'm blacklisting people who I felt were rude or abusive or entirely unreasonable (because it would stick in my throat to give a game to somebody who had told me to kill myself). This seems reasonable to me.

But to me things began to seem unreasonable when I made a giveaway for 3 copies of Skullgirls and woke up the next morning to find that despite a large number of entries more people were moaning about being blacklisted than had actually said 'thank you'. And I spent half the next day Being harassed by and arguing with various people despite also being really busy in real life.

If somebody asks why they are blacklisted I don't mind checking if I have made a mistake or looking if they have mended their ways - but when I commit to giving a game away I don't also want to commit to wasting a bunch of time arguing with people.

More recently somebody took the trouble of contacting me after noticing they were blacklisted to tell me what a good user they were, to express their surprise and upset and to issue some vague but malevolent threats. I checked my list and saw they were blackListed for several things ranging from having a terrible ratio to scamming people in trades. And I also noticed that this user had never made a giveaway that I had been able to enter.

I had been excluded from every private group giveaway this user had made and apparently now this user had discovered that I had made a giveaway that he was excluded from he found this entirely unreasonable. Is it wrong to be pissed off about that?

In conclusion I'm now about bored of this shit. I'm considering how to move forwards on the matter and thought it would be interesting to have a discussion and hear peoples opinions.

But before replying I would like people to consider that whenever I have previously posted a rambling wall of text in 'puzzles' there has been something far more important going on than the topic that appears to be the issue.

EDIT - I literally have several hundred new messages. I hadn't quite expected that response. Clearly blacklisting is CONTROVERSIAL or else folks are just really excited about the other thing. I'll reply to as much stuff as I can but it may take a while.

To clarify a few things at the risk of making a wall of text even bigger;

I'll always check why I blacklisted people as clearly I'm not infallible. Although in the past I have had several productive discussions with people I blacklisted I don't feel able to commit to that in the future due to a recent onslaught of bullshit. At this stage I'm reluctant to even get involved in discussions when so many of them end up wasting so much time.

I'm pretty sure I know what caused the onslaught of bullshit. Participating in the 'midsummer madness' event clearly brought me to the attention of some people who hadn't previously noticed my more subtle giveaways. And also I added 'really bad ratio + only making private group giveaways while raking it in from public giveaways' to the list of things I blacklist for which upset a number of especially argumentative and entitled individuals.

I'm not upset or else I wouldn't still be making giveaways. I have vented. I have put my point of view across. I will honestly consider the feedback. I will move forwards.

EDIT2 - 890 messages since I made this. I have read them all but it is unlikely that I will be able to reply to them all. The main lesson so far appears to be that the people who have contributed the least to this community are the ones most likely to get outraged about what other people are doing with their giveaways.

8 years ago*

Comment has been collapsed.

TL;DR?

View Results
Yes
No
Potato

"In conclusion I'm now about bored of this shit. I'm considering how to move forwards on the matter and thought it would be interesting to have a discussion and hear peoples opinions."

This is actually upsetting me since I think you're one of my favorite topic starters and people in general on here. Your art's always hilarious and awesome and we've had some very enjoyable conversations. Obviously your generosity is appreciated, too (at least by people who understand that being allowed to enter a giveaway is a privilege and not a right) and if you decide to stop after this amazing train because you need a break I don't think anyone would fault you for doing that.

I'd also like to offer you some game keys so please accept my steam invite:P

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Well, I'd happily accept an invite from yourself in any circumstances!

And I just meant I was bored of being moaned at by entitled ungrateful parasitic shitbags. I'm not going anywhere just yet!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Some people just want to watch the world burn ...

View attached image.
View attached image.
View attached image.
View attached image.
8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Bump!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I'll bump this later.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

wait, people can find out that they're blacklisted? oh maybe i guess if they click a link to a private giveaway (or type it in) . . . which i did, so hooray i'm not on your blacklist though from your explanation i can't see how i would've got on

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

No, I can't see why I would have blacklisted you. If you found a link to type in then good for you!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

too many comments here, so i guess you won't read mine, but i'll try anyway:
i twice asked why i was blacklisted. the first i was very annoyed with the answer i got, some "abuse" the blacklist system (by my reckoning)
the second time i was more wise, and while asking i said i don't really want to know. the user decided to be nice and remove me from the BL. wasn't expecting that, honestly.

after the first one (and the thread i made) i stopped BL people. and started whitelisting them instead. currently i'm on ~150 users and growing. and true, you can't reach all users, but i hope get the nice lurkers inside.

and your train is amazing. thank you indeed.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Well first of all if you give away a game anything you reach level 1 and most of your giveaways are of that level so you are bound to get people who are leechers, vac banned, alt accounts and so on. I have seen when 0 level or level 1 I make giveaways most people there are not real. Its not that only low level contains card idling accounts but in higher levels the percentage is lower. The problem with higher levels are most of them there only do group giveaways in private groups so you wont be able to enter those but they will be able to enter.
So perfect solution is make 50% of the giveaways whitelist and rest 50% at level 3 to remove the unwanted people.
I agree with you people wont even say thanks but complain why they are on blacklist. I know a certain person here even made a thread ranting about why he was blacklisted by me :P. The reason was simple he never made a public giveaway only private group giveaway. There are many people who have commented here who only makes group giveaway and expects to join public giveaway. I don't get their mentality when you don't want to share your giveaway why do you want to join others! Private giveaway group people who never make public ones are much more than a scum!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

You'll probably be blacklisted for this statement :P (not by me though.)

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

No problem! but frankly speaking people who only do private group wont even bother to have a blacklist as nobody except their group can enter so why bother!
Anyways I have my fair share of wins always!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I think even with level 2 and 3 public giveaways I was getting a lot of entries from people who had no clue what was going on - I don't know how many people are using bots or scripts or just clicking on everything to use their 300 points but it seemed like an issue to me.

I started making simple puzzles in discussions which to me are just intended to work like a 'captcha' and just guarantee some human interaction. And that seems to have worked out a lot better.

Most of my own problems have been after blacklisting users with very bad ratios who only make private giveaways but also rake it in from public giveaways - often high CV ones. That seemed unfair to me but those same users also seem to be very aggressive and argumentative for some reason. Especially given that I can't join their giveaways!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Well with level 3 giveaways people will be same. Like in how many giveaways do the winners even thank you. My giveaways end how many thanks I receive just 10%. 3 level 3 giveaways ended 1 marked as received thanks still now 0. You will get lot of entries unless you set levels a bit higher so that only real people will enter but you will get ungrateful winners also!

I know there are people who are extremely aggressive why they have been blacklisted. Come on can i ever join a single giveaway of yours..? NO.. so why should i let you join mine! still they will rant everywhere and also write in comments why am i blacklisted!
I will try out your captcha hoping it will have better results then but I still prefer whitelist as they are my selection and I know they are good people with good number of public giveaways!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

pumb

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks a lot for the train, here have a bump.
I blacklist the multiple regifters, beggars and steamtrade scammers.
No one has contacted me asking why they've been blacklisted, but if they do i'll just ignore them coz these reasons are the only ones why i would blacklist someone.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Solved the puzzle, I'm blacklisted, ok :(

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I only blacklist rule breakers or people who insults me or others.
Thanks for the train btw

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Thanks for the amazing train. Have a nice day!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Bumpity BUMP!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Hm, is Potato between yes and no? ;-) At first I though TL;DR but then I decided that you took the time to write all that so maybe I should take the time to read it...

BUMP so others read it carefully as well ;-)

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I had been excluded from every private group giveaway this user had made and apparently now this user had discovered that I had made a giveaway that he was excluded from he found this entirely unreasonable.

I lol'd
thanks for train + bump + obviously potato

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

thanks and bump

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Deleted

This comment was deleted 4 years ago.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I read the whole thing but I couldn't understand what was bieng asked. So I'll say this, you're a funny and generous guy. Blacklist and Ignore those that you feel don't deserve to win something from you. Simplicity itself.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Happy cake day!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Much appreciated!

Bump!

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

TL;DR first, then "No" after reading.
Also bump for train

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

bump

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

In space, noone can hear you scream, you know. Same for the Internet. Think about it...

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

I don't normally agree with blacklisting, but from what little I've read of your TL;DR post it sounds like you actually have good reasons to blacklist. People regifting or refusing to accept the game or what have you are certainly worthy of a blacklist.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

What do ethics have to do with this?..

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

It's all about ethics. Without ethical considerations what course of action would there be other to cynically loot the site of as many games as possible?

As soon as I start giving games away with no benefit to myself then that is an ethical decision - I'm doing it because it appears 'good' or 'right'. And through my interactions with other people I have framed their actions as 'good' or 'bad' by my own ethics and reacted to them accordingly. And they have judged me in turn by their own standards and that is what this is about.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Deleted

This comment was deleted 3 years ago.

8 years ago
Permalink

Comment has been collapsed.

Sign in through Steam to add a comment.