Men of SG: have you ever mistreated women?
i don't even know what's going on here, i just came here to order a sandwich.
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who's gonna get triggered by this?? haha too bad i dont have enought iem to read the comments but someone show me the hilights
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This is the only comment you'll ever need to read. Screenshot attached.
This whole thing is some military-grade projection, and OP should seek professional help. Because they've either already done something horrible to a woman, or they're about to. And I'm not keen on humouring SG's version of EviLore or Amir0x.
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Meh, everyone educate their own child,that would be a great step already
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OP holds and has stated opinions of similar retardedness, so I'm not hugely sure. It's definitely a bait to get people pissed, but whether or not they actually believe what they say... ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Because you need to do better.
I don't.
I grew up surrounded by women and as such treat them with the same courtesy I do with everyone else; so, please fuck off and stop generalizing.
Making all men out to be aggressors and evil is the stupidest way to ask them to them to be nicer and more empathetic...
That list has to be trolling.
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If it makes you feel better, I'm pretty sure this is all a troll
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There is a reserved post at the very start of the thread.
I'm surprised so many people missed it (and my follow up reply actually pointing out what caused this).
Ah well, I suppose if you set up a perfect target, everyone wants to take a shot. :3c
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Um, maybe not. If you're not part of the problem, then get that there IS a problem and support those that are speaking out against it. Just assume that he's talking to the royal "we" and not you in particular. Of course this is part of the issue when speaking of "unspoken" issues - Hey, that isn't me so it doesn't matter".... But it really does so since you get that women are no different than men, you can see that he isn't actually trolling but trying to make a real statement. Right?
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Did you just assume that I harass women? I'll have you know I'm an autist who spends most of his time indoors. I sometimes talk over people, but it's almost always guys because I rarely talk to girls outside my family. I see no issue with the panel thing. People in general (not just women) thank me for holding doors open. I don't expect a thank you, it's just a thing I do. I do agree with the others ones listed, but I've never had any situations where I had to do these things.
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As an older woman, can I just say that all of the above listed things have happened to me at least once in my personal and professional life? Yeah... about this, let's just get that we're ALL human. Just because we wear different parts between our legs doesn't make us different. If you wouldn't want to be treated a certain way doesn't make it ok to treat your differently sexed or differently sexual human being any differently. Got it? Good :-) Now go and live life as a human being - not a sex object :-p Momo over and out and don't make me put you in a time out!
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guess im not doing men any favors by making us look like female play toys
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The time out was a "mother" reference but hey, if you're into that, go for it. I also don't discriminate against or judge other's kinks.
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Somebody please make the inverse list lol!
Hey women, what are you planning to do better? Because you need to do better. Here are some ideas on how you should treat men better:
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Hey bald people, what are you planning to do better? Damn skinhead racists!
Hey Germans, what are you planning to do better? Damn mass murdering nationalist nazis!
Hey Muslims, what are you planning to do better? Damn pedophile terrorists!
Hey white people, what are you planning to do better? Damn privileged culturally-appropriating bigots!
Hey homosexuals, what are you planning to do better? Damn sexually transmitted infections!
Hey rich people, what are you planning to do better? Damn greedy pigs!
Hey straight people, what are you planning to do better? Damn oppressors of sexuality and freedom!
Hey homeless people, what are you trying to do better? Damn lazy idiots!
Hey Dragon Hunters and Toasters, what are you planning to do better? Damn murdering, charring- oh wait, these ones are funny!
Or maybe I need to re-calibrate my humour sensors; not sure.
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I'm gonna waste my time and respond to this. For context I'm a 19 year old male.
Talk to your friend who is “kind of a creep” at work.
If he's a creep he probably isn't my friend.
Don’t talk over women.
I don't talk over anyone unless I've got something important to say. This doesn't just apply to women, and it doesn't just happen to women either.
If you are asked to be on a panel/team and see that it’s all men, say something. Maybe even refuse the spot!
Why? What purpose does this serve?
When you see another guy talk over a woman, say: “Hey, she was saying something.”
Again, if someone talks over someone else, regardless of gender, I'll make sure they're heard.
Learn to read a fucking room.
Tbh my social skills aren't great, but people should say what they're thinking rather than expecting me to read their face while I'm paying attention to something else.
Don’t call women “crazy” in a professional setting.
This extends to "don't insult people in a professional setting". Common sense.
Don’t use your “feminism” as a way to get women to trust you. Show us in your day-to-day life, not in your self-congratulatory social media.
Not a feminist...
Don’t touch women you don’t know, and honestly, ask yourself why you feel the need to touch women in general.
This assumes a lot. I'm going to not take offense to it.
Also if you want a scientific reason, it's called hormones. Women have them too. Not that I think that excuses it.
Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t. Even if you’re like, “Hm, but what about basic respect?” ask yourself if you’ve shown her the same.
I treat people with respect and I expect at least something like that in return. I don't think that's a big deal.
Don’t send pictures of your penis unless she just asked for them.
I've never done this. Don't plan to. Not really sure what idiots think this work.
If a woman says no to a date, don’t ask her again.
So what if she let's me down nicely and says "Another time maybe". Should I not ask her again here too? What if she's actually just busy?
If a woman has not given an enthusiastic “yes” to sex, back the hell off.
I'm...not even sure how to respond to this.
If a woman is really drunk, she cannot consent to you and she also cannot consent to your buddy who seems to be trying something. Your buddy is your responsibility, so say something and intervene.
I haven't been to anywhere where women have been drunk, but in my opinion, you can consent even under the influence. You chose to get drunk, you know exactly what that can do to you. Also, my buddy isn't my "responsibility"
If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent.
Again lots of assumptions.
Involve women in your creative projects, then let them have equal part in them.
If they're around, I'll include them if I like their ability level, not because of their gender.
Don’t make misogynistic jokes.
"Don't make jokes at the expense of someone besides yourself" Also common sense.
Don’t expect women to be “nice” or “cute” and don’t get upset when they aren’t those things.
You seem to think I have a lot of expectations.
Don’t make assumptions about a woman’s intelligence, capabilities or desires based on how she dresses.
If she's dressed like a prostitute I'm gonna judge. She doesn't have to give two shits about my opinion.
Pay women as much as you pay men.
If I was ever in this situation, she'd get payed based on the quality and amount of work. If she did less than another male, she gets payed less. It's not hard.
If a woman tells you that you fucked up, and you feel like shit, don’t put it on that woman to make you feel better. Apologize without qualification and then go away.
So I should just listen to any woman tell me I fucked up? I don't think so.
Don’t punish women for witnessing your vulnerability.
I feel there's some context here I'm missing because I've never heard of something so ridiculous occurring.
Don’t get defensive when you get called out.
This has nothing to do with women specifically, not sure why it's here.
Don’t need to literally witness a man being horrible in order to believe that he’s horrible. Trust and believe women.
Nope. That's just being plain stupid. There's a ridiculous number of false accusations by women that destroy the lives of men, yet they aren't punished when they eventually reveal their lies. Always confirm.
I'm not saying don't let a woman stay at your house because she's scared to go home to her spouse, but don't go to court saying you saw something that didn't happen either.
Don’t use your power to get women’s attention/company/sex/etc.
Women do this too, so this feels like fair game to me.
Be aware of your inherent power in situations and use it to protect women, especially via talking to other men.
Just curious, why do I owe these women anything? As said previously by you:
If you do the right thing, don’t expect praise or payment or a pat on the back or even a “thank you from that woman”. Congratulations, you were baseline decent.
And
Do you feel that any woman on earth owes you something? She doesn’t
So why do I owe women anything?
Stop thinking that because you’re also marginalized or a survivor that you cannot inflict pain or oppress women.
Again I must be missing some context
If women’s pain makes you feel pain, don’t prize your pain above hers, or make that pain her problem.
What?
Don’t read a list like this and think that most of these don’t apply to you.
So, as it turns out, they don't.
Yeah sometimes men are assholes to women. Sometimes women are assholes to men. People are assholes sometimes. That doesn't mean you can generalize people you don't know into one big group of assholes.
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A thoughtful reply. An admirable job keeping a logical mind and a level heart.
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you can consent even under the influence
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Yeah. Seriously.
Maybe I'll change my mind later, but the effect of alcohol is well known. You know what could happen.
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Here's a plausible ethical principle:
It's wrong to have sex with any creature that can't consent to it.It's an attractive principle because its scope seems to capture the cases we disapprove of and, more importantly, it also explains why it's wrong to have sex with children, animals, people who are unconscious, people who have severe cognitive impairments, and people who are really drunk.
You're thinking about this backwards by picturing it from the perspective of the person getting drunk. Are they responsible for getting drunk, which means that they are responsible for their actions (e.g., driving a car and killing someone) while drunk? Of course. But, as you point out, the effect of alcohol is well known: in particular, it makes meaningful, informed consent impossible. And no one--not even God--can do what's impossible. So I can't consume a substance that makes giving consent impossible, and also while under the influence of that substance give consent.
And, from your perspective, that's all you need to know to know that it's wrong. By our original principle, it is wrong for you to have sex with a creature that can't consent to it. A drunk person can't consent to it. So, it follows that it's wrong to have sex with a drunk person.
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Here's a plausible ethical principle: It's wrong to have sex with any creature that can't consent to it.
Okay that's perfectly fine.
in particular, it makes meaningful, informed consent impossible.
But that's the whole argument right there. Does being drunk mean you can't consent? Using that as part of your argument is circular reasoning.
Also using that argument, one can claim "I didn't consent to be put into an Uber home, I was drunk, that's kidnapping"
Yes, alcohol inhibits ones ability to make an informed decision, but in order become inhibited, you made the informed decision to become inhibited. Even though you know the potential consequences.
So unless the person is actually unconscious, I am still of the opinion that people under the influence can (legally) consent. You are always responsible for your own actions.
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Why draw the line at being unconscious? By your logic, an adult should know what could happen if they take a sleeping pill, so if someone has sex with them while they're unconscious, that's a risk they took and are responsible for--but if that's absurd, your view doesn't seem to be able to explain why.
Perhaps you'll say that the difference has to with the fact that a person under the influence is still uttering words or performing actions? As the case of children clearly shows, a 10-year's giving you "permission" to do horrible things to them can't constitute meaningful consent because they aren't in a position to be able to give such consent. This is also true for people with severe cognitive impairments. Surely you would grant that in the case of someone with a permanent severe cognitive impairment. But that's true even if the person was responsible for the accident that resulted in their having the permanent severe cognitive impairment. And if you accept that last step, then you have to grant it in the temporary severe impairment case as well. Extreme alcohol consumption doesn't necessarily impair my ability to speak words, but it will impair my ability to understand the implications of those words or the context in which I am uttering them. But surely consent requires precisely that sort of understanding.
Finally, I granted your claim that a person who gets drunk is responsible for everything that they do under the influence. But they aren't responsible for what you do. And what you do is wrong if they can't consent. A good analogy is an empty vehicle. If a person gets drunk and parks their car illegally, they are responsible for any parking tickets they get. But if they also left their car unlocked, it's still wrong for you to steal it. You might be right that they could be responsible for leaving it open, especially if it's a bad neighborhood--but at no point can it become permissible for you to steal it! The car is empty, and the driver can't be contacted--there is simply no one present to give you permission to drive it. Impairment means there's no one home to answer, yes or no--that's the whole point.
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Why draw the line at being unconscious? By your logic, an adult should know what could happen if they take a sleeping pill, so if someone has sex with them while they're unconscious, that's a risk they took and are responsible for--but if that's absurd, your view doesn't seem to be able to explain why.
You can't physically consent while you're unconscious. You can't speak or gesture.
Perhaps you'll say that the difference has to with the fact that a person under the influence is still uttering words or performing actions? As the case of children clearly shows, a 10-year's giving you "permission" to do horrible things to them can't constitute meaningful consent because they aren't in a position to be able to give such consent.
That's true. But the 10 year never was in a position to give consent. Not at their birth, or even most likely being in their current location.
This is also true for people with severe cognitive impairments. Surely you would grant that in the case of someone with a permanent severe cognitive impairment. But that's true even if the person was responsible for the accident that resulted in their having the permanent severe cognitive impairment. And if you accept that last step, then you have to grant it in the temporary severe impairment case as well.
People generally aren't responsible for their cognitive impairment. And I mean here action with intent.
Extreme alcohol consumption doesn't necessarily impair my ability to speak words, but it will impair my ability to understand the implications of those words or the context in which I am uttering them. But surely consent requires precisely that sort of understanding.
Definition of the noun consent: "Acceptance or approval of what is planned or done by another"
So even if you might not be okay with the decision you're making later, you are making it now. This doesn't take the form in just words, but actions as well.
Finally, I granted your claim that a person who gets drunk is responsible for everything that they do under the influence. But they aren't responsible for what you do. And what you do is wrong if they can't consent. A good analogy is an empty vehicle. If a person gets drunk and parks their car illegally, they are responsible for any parking tickets they get. But if they also left their car unlocked, it's still wrong for you to steal it.
Yes it is, but then stealing isn't legal ever. Sex is.
You might be right that they could be responsible for leaving it open, especially if it's a bad neighborhood--but at no point can it become permissible for you to steal it! The car is empty, and the driver can't be contacted--there is simply no one present to give you permission to drive it. Impairment means there's no one home to answer, yes or no--that's the whole point.
That's not what impairment means. Impairment means the logical and moral reasoning behind your decision might be poor, but you can still answer. Definition of impairment: "To cause to weaken, be damaged, or diminish, as in quality". Not remove.
You've also ignored the rest of my original post about your main post. Whether you care to argue those as well is up to you.
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acute alcohol intoxication would be more accurate
Alcohol Lowers your Inhibitions and your sense of judgment
i've seen enough under uni initiations, with guys and GALS, that aren't used to drink that much, let alone in a setting that promotes those excesses.
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I like your considered response. However, as a 19 year old, you are 1) from a different generation, 2) haven't been in the workplace (at all or long enough) to have seen a lot of the above list of things played out.
Personally, it sounds like your parents raised a mensch :-)
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That's very true, I am from a different generation. I'm hoping I never see things like this happening.
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so, you don't even have a poll option for men who don't mistreat women. how should i understand that? do you just assume all men do that? maybe you're part of a problem as well then.
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If you have somehow managed to get through life without mistreating women, or if you did in the past but now have cultivated a flawless moral character such that you do not now and never will again mistreat them, then I genuinely want to learn what your secret is.
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i never mistreated a man because he was a man, and i never mistreated a woman because she was a woman. i am pretty certain of that. just assuming guilt for everyone is simply wrong and unfair. but if this is a troll thread, it doesn't really matter, does it.
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Kind of sounds like you mistreat the women in your life, which puts the opening post into perspective; I think someone else noted that it seemed as though you were projecting too. I wish you all the best in curing what ails you. o>
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He's a troll. Or maybe he's been dropped on his head when he was a baby...
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I know this is trolling, but that list is 100% retarded. Feminism is not cancer, it's worse.
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100%? Did you even read the list? Your sweeping dismissal undermines the possibility of your being taken seriously. The vast majority of these are simple applications of Wheaton's Law (that's 'Don't Be A Dick' for the illiterati) and call for basic equality. There might be legitimate disagreement over some of these, but only an asshole would skim it and say 'I disagree with 100%' and insult people with cognitive impairments while also insulting half the human race. Try a different number maybe, or actually engaging with one of them?
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So why does this list need to made specific for women? Can't we just say "Don't be a dick"? To anyone?
Also
There might be legitimate disagreement over some of these, but only an asshole would skim it and say 'I disagree with 100%' and insult people with cognitive impairments while also insulting half the human race.
No where in his post did he make fun of or insult people with cognitive impairments. People need to get over other people using the word retarded.
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Do you not see how using a word that compares someone (S) to a certain type of person (T) can only be an insult if it connotes lower status for the type of person (T)? That's why it's offensive to try to insult someone by calling them 'gay'--it's only an insult if the speaker believes that people who are gay are of a lower status or less of a person or have less value as humans. The same for 'retarded' and many other words. So instead of suggesting that other people should tolerate your casually degrading them as a group, maybe you need to get over feeling like it's cool in 2017 to imply that people with cognitive impairment are of lower status.
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Retarded has more than one meaning. The one most people imply is "very foolish or stupid." Look it up if you don't believe me.
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I'm glad you like to use the dictionary, but how exactly do you think it acquired that secondary usage if not through the process I described above?
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If you'd like I can find words that I'm sure you use every day that have equally unfortunate origins. And I'll use the dictionary.
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I think that would be great! Let me know if you find any, and if they're offensive, I'll try to stop using them. Because I think Wheaton's Law is a good idea, and using offensive words makes you a dick.
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I see. So you be against calling someone an idiot?
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Yes, I read the list, otherwise I wouldn't have said it's 100% retarded. I couldn't care less if I'm being taken seriously or not, I expressed my opinion, what you do with it is not my problem. It's completely sexist from the first item to the last. Most of these would be ok simply by replacing "women" with "people" and by not assuming that me, as a reader, have done one of these simply by being a man, like the last point so horribly puts it. If you want to call for equality, make it inclusive and not generalized, otherwise you'll find enemies instead of allies. And I'm someone who completely agrees with equality, but I'd rather shoot myself in the head than to be associated with feminists in the current days.
Lol, nowhere in my post did I insult people with cognitive impairments. I use "retarded" as a synonym of "stupid". And where did I insult half the human race? Feminists are now half the human race? Lol, feminists are a tiny minority in the world, thank God.
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+1 for quoting Wheaton's Law. It applies virtually everywhere.Link for elucidation of the masses
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If that were a real quote from a living person, it might be worth reading. But why are you wasting our time with someone's fantastical meme strawperson version of feminism? Come on, Luka, you can do better than that.
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Hmmmmm.....lemme find something better. :)
There we go!
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If that were a real quote from a living person, it might be worth reading. But why are you wasting our time with someone's fantastical meme strawperson version of feminism? Come on, Luka, you can do better than that.
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If that were a real quote from a living person, it might be worth reading. But why are you wasting our time with someone's fantastical meme strawperson version of feminism? Come on, Luka, you can do better than that.
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they need to treat themselves better by not wearing clothes that make half of their body public .
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Over the past several days, a series of threads and comments have resulted in Staff being inundated with User Reports regarding the behavior of certain users in the forums. While we aim to allow the free flowing of ideas, regardless of how controversial they might be, within the forums with limited intervention, it has come to our attention that the recent events have gotten out of control. Therefore, in the best interest of both the site and community at large, we have decided to close this thread. Not only will this force those who have taken part some time to pause and reflect on their actions, but also allow the site to heal from the division that has erupted from it.
We wish to thank all users on the site for their understanding at this time. We would also like to urge those who wish to express any possible concerns or ask questions regarding the current events to contact Staff via Support Ticket.
We at Staff wish the very best for you all and may the Space Cat visit you soon =).
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