ok i know there might be some more answers but i think these will be the most popular, thats why i added them and i could not think of more but please feel free to add input.
I picked the third choice. Even with all these videos there is a lot that do not even show real game play on steam/store pages which is not useful for me. I watch the videos i read a description and i play the game after 2-5 hours i find, i really dont like it even if it did look good. The 2 hour limit for steam i think is to small. I am a slow player. Thats why i picked 3 i have done this and have no shame in admitting i download some games illegal play them i really like them then delete them before finishing and purchase the game they deserve the money i am just tired of getting games that are not interesting to me at all.
I mean if i am still buying the game in the end they get the same thing right? And i get to know i actually like the game.

It will not let me add choices to poll. But Downloading for the sake of getting it to work if you already own it.
Also downloading it for fan translation if it was never released in your country seem to be popular.
You can add those in comments if they are your choices.

2 months ago*

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is there some wiggle room?

View Results
yes
no
yes but only if you play the game just enough to know whether or not you like it then buy it if you do
yes but only if you bought another game from the company that was broke or awful and feel this is you getting what you did not get from the first purchase
no downloading for any reason is wrong and hurts the community/ industry

Games are not a necessity.

That said, I have no qualms about pirating a game I've paid for before. For instance, using a ripped version of the original Rome: Total War when my Steam version doesn't work with mods.

Edit: Also, at this point the "I wanted to see how it plays" argument doesn't really work anymore. You can try the demo, view let's plays, and get a refund if there are technical issues.

2 months ago*
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Games are not a necessity.

That pretty much sums it up for me.

2 months ago
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refunds do not always work everyone knows that as games sometimes dont work for a very select few and details on that can be picky. The "lets plays" I have watched many thought it looked good but looking at it is not playing it so even though it gives me an idea i still bought quite a few that looked good but not fun.
Many dont have demo but when they do it eliminates pirating for me.

2 months ago
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I feel like "Games are not a necessity" could be used to argue for more pirating, even though I completely agree that they are not a necessity. But yeah, someone excusing pirating by saying "I needed it" is pretty silly.

2 months ago
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Not only are games not a necessity, but if you can't afford games, there's no shortage of free-to-play games available. F2P games are perfect for those with more time than money.

2 months ago
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can try the demo

Most games don't have a demo unless you consider the refund period a demo.
Not that it justifies it, just worth clarifying that games with demos are rare.

2 months ago
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Since the addition of the refund policy on Steam, I've begun to notice more and more demos for games on my wishlist.
I've taken advantage of a number of them before deciding if I want to buy or not.

I'm assuming (and yes, I know that's bad) more devs (and I notice it more among indie devs) are doing it to avoid refunds.

2 months ago
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Kind of weird that there are two "No" answers...

2 months ago
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"No" for blanket other reasons (that I am to lazy to think up)?

2 months ago
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no downloading for any reason is wrong and hurts the community/ industry

This one states a fact, which is bullshit (as a newly released old EU study shows)

no

This one is an opinion.

2 months ago
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Funny thing about that it was something we already all knew anyway. I heard they tried to bury the study too.

2 months ago
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newly released old

Yes, I think the study was "published" I think someone leaked it a few years after it was done.

2 months ago
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While I disagree with the blanket statement that piracy hurts the community/industry in all cases (eg. you'd have a hard time justifying the harm from pirating 30 year old abandonware), there's two problems with your "bullshit" call:

  1. You don't address the harm to the community, which one could easily logically argue is in the form of DRM, free-to-play/freemium models, increased reliance on multiplayer/online gaming and reduced/non-existent LAN/local split-screen play etc. This hasn't been proved in any study, but nor has it been disproved, and certainly not in the EU study. All you'd need is just one example where a developer changed their game's design, payment model, added DRM, etc because of piracy or fear of it. And there are examples of that all over the place, with some companies not even bothering with PC ports because of piracy.
  2. The report doesn't say the claim is bullshit, but that there isn't strong evidence that piracy does or does not impact sales. Which makes sense, because sales figures don't give you cause, and you're basically relying on people saying "I would have bought it if X". It's not real science, there is no "control" scenario where you can prevent all piracy of one game and compare its sales to another equal game that was pirated. Video games as a whole are not fungible goods and can't be compared.
    Meanwhile, there are also plenty of examples of where piracy specifically did harm sales of an individual product, cost companies money, even sent them broke.

Also, the study wasn't "buried". It wasn't released, probably because it comes to no conclusion either way and thus has no use. The claims of suppression were from the media and alluded by the (obviously biased) Pirate Party member who obtained it via Freedom of Information request, it wasn't leaked.

2 months ago
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  1. Yes, but thats an indirect cause. Publishiser fearing piracy cause that. Of course if there is no piracy they would have nothing to fear, but if that fear is irrational, then piracy isn't the direct cause.

  2. Well... I don't know how many studies you have seen, that involved people, but ALL of them depend on people being honest. Thats why you dont go to a bunch of random people asking them stuff, but do anonymous and random selections. Of course social studies can never reach the certianty of a mathimatical proof, but done right they are pretty good.
    And "no evidence to support a claim" is the scientific equivalent to bullshit (ok, if you can neither proof or disprove it bullshit might be a bit over the top).

  3. If you pay for a study to show how bad piracy is and the studie says "we don't see that it's bad at all" well... Then guess what. "Buring" is equal to not publishing it. And even negative results are results.
    And you are right about the request. But wan't a part of the study ripped out of context and quoted somewhere esle before, which lead to that request. But yes, probably leaked isn't the right word.
2 months ago
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"In general, the results do not show robust statistical evidence of displacement of sales by online copyright infringements. That does not necessarily mean that piracy has no effect but only that the statistical analysis does not prove with sufficient reliability that there is an effect."
So no, you're drawing a conclusion that even the study's authors don't agree with, and no, most studies don't rely on the honesty of criminals. "Studies show that 99% of prison inmates were wrongfully imprisoned. They're innocent I tells ya!"

But sure, people who illegally download are model citizens who surely tell the truth 100% of the time, and don't have any motivation at all to lie to justify their actions, and piracy is all gumdrops and rainbows, meanwhile game developers are just sleazy liars who have an irrational fear of piracy when it could be making them rich. If only 100% of people would pirate 100% of their content, the gaming industry would be worth trillions by now!

1 month ago
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Your second paragraph completly turn everything around what I said.

And if a survey is done right, there is absolutly no reason to lie, because it's anonymus. Of course there are always people that lie never the less, but majority doesn't.

Otherwise nearly all surveys would show bullshit results.

1 month ago
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Surveys can, if done right, be good indicators of opinion. But they don't work when participants have a motivation to lie. Like when you survey a bunch of criminals asking why it's everyone else's fault that they're criminals. Being anonymous doesn't make much difference, have you never heard of cognitive dissonance? It's not the surveyors they're lying to, it's themselves. It's apparent you're being deliberately obtuse about how surveys work and place way too much faith in the integrity of thieves.
And I don't see how I'm turning around what you're saying. You're under the impression that piracy doesn't harm the industry. Therefore if everyone did it all the time, it shouldn't be a problem right?

1 month ago
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"And I don't see how I'm turning around what you're saying. "

"You're under the impression that piracy doesn't harm the industry." (Yes)

"... piracy when it could be making them rich. If only 100% of people would pirate 100% of their content, the gaming industry would be worth trillions by now!"

1 month ago
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Yes, that's the exact logical extension of your belief. It's not my fault your argument makes no sense.

1 month ago
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No, it's not.

"It's does not reduce the profits" and "it makes them rich" are completly different statements.
It's not my fault you don't understand logical reasoning.

1 month ago
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Doing something illegal is wrong. That being said I do not always do the right thing.

2 months ago
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+1 Exactly.

2 months ago
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Doing something illegal is wrong.

Doing something illegal is illegal. Doing something wrong is wrong. The two elements don't inherently overlap (or we wouldn't have concepts such as legal reformations, human rights violations, etc). Ideally, laws are "right"- but in practice, even in the most sincere and fair of countries, elements such as corruption, narrow-mindness, adherence to traditions, human fallibility, and actively developing legal concepts [eg, automated car legislation] still hold back such a correlation from being applicable.

2 months ago
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Ah yes, there is this 2nd Amendment thing.
Legal to some, damn wrong to many others.
But lets not open that can of worms...oh wait... :P

2 months ago
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Thanks for putting my thoughts into words!

2 months ago
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I would say so too.
Wrong is a moral thing, illegal is a legal thing.
It might be illegal to steal a loaf of bread, but it isn't wrong if it's being used to feed a starving family. It's broad and you could say anything else to add to the scenario, but the point remains.

2 months ago
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So... if we make it legal, it will be right? :D

2 months ago
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like it's legal to kill homosexuals in some countries <3

2 months ago
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A classic. What would the world be without an arbitrary moral standing that allows you to take lives.
That's why I kill console users. PC masterrace and all that.

2 months ago
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But that is part of the question. If i download the game illegally play it enjoy it then buy it. Technically i did something illegal but did it do any harm since i bought the product anyway?
Its not like food if i steal one and buy one i am getting two. But if i download one of the same thing then buy it. They are still getting the same amount of money and i am still getting one game from them. If that makes sense.

2 months ago
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personally i feel buying and refunding hurts more than downloading and deleting.

i mean by law youR in the wrong (unless you DO own it in some form then its kind of a gray area). most people tend to know if something is wrong. its just if they care.

2 months ago*
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Technically the only thing that's currently legal is using your own backup, not downloading one, even if you already own it.

*you're in the (...)

2 months ago
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fixed

2 months ago
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"Doing something illegal is wrong."

It's actually pretty horrifying to think that many people really do consider this to be a blanket true statement.

2 months ago
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Pointless exercise since there will always be some sort of justification that will excuse a person's behaviour in their own eyes. (e.g. At least I didn't do X so I'm not a bad person, etc etc). You will always find someone who will condone your behaviour as well as those who will not depending on how willing you are to listen to others and to whom.

At the end of the day, you do you and if you sleep at night, good on you. Morality and legality are not the same thing, and while piracy may be legally wrong in most of the world, many peeps do not feel the same when it comes to the moral aspect. If you are fine with it, cool but don't expect to come up with some convoluted reason where everyone/majority of peeps will excuse your illegal behaviour.

2 months ago
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Agree. I think there is a difference between - I can justify my own interpretation of the "spirit of the law" (ie. The law doesn't apply to me because of XYZ) and the actual letter of the law (should I find myself in legal trouble, none of my excuses are going to float).

2 months ago*
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I agree with this, though I would note that that last sentence can also be applied to, say, the USA's gun laws, or its lax employee protections, and so on. But we wouldn't dismiss making use of the rights the second amendment grants as 'illegal behaviour', just because it is an idiosyncrasy of the USA.

2 months ago
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slavery was an amendment we just made an amendment to ignore that one.

2 months ago
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The only time I see "pirating" (in quotes since I'm not even sure that counts) as okay is when the game simply does not exist anymore for a reason or another (AKA: Abandonware). But honestly, any form of pirating is wrong, simple as that. As Ceebers said - it's not really about whether or not is wrong, but more about are you willing to do something immoral?

2 months ago
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Abandonware is one of those "my interpretation of the spirit of the law". Copyright law has no clause that says "Copyright ceases to exist when the original company does, or when the product is no longer available on the shelves".

2 months ago
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We would lose digital history with forcing the law on abonded software...

2 months ago
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That's when my second paragraph comes in - "But honestly, any form of pirating is wrong, simple as that. As Ceebers said - it's not really about whether or not is wrong, but more about are you willing to do something immoral?"

2 months ago
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But in that case it can't even be argued that it would be immoral. If they don't exist anymore then as he mentioned the history could be lost if nobody ever downloaded them.

2 months ago
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Depends on your definition of immoral. If illegal = immoral, then any form of pirating (in the true sense of the word) is immoral.

What I'm saying is, pirating of any kind is "bad" according to our laws - with that said, not everyone agrees with our laws and therefore they may have a different opinion on what's "right" (including me) and may be willing to break said laws or kinda "dodge" them to acquire software and content illegally.

2 months ago
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Cate Archer agrees.

View attached image.
2 months ago
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I agree with pirating if it's there is no other way to get the game. There's an old obscure game called "Hateful Chris: Never Say Buy" that I played as a kid, today it's impossible to buy, there are no physical copies, not on any digital store and the company doesn't exist anymore.
Should this game be forever lost simply because you can't get it legally?

2 months ago
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From a legal standpoint, obviously it's wrong.

And I don't personally pirate, but the way I view it is if you like what a company is doing and want to support them, you should be buying their stuff. And if you want to play a certain game by a developer, but don't want to support the way they run their business (ex: Sims is a great series if you're into that kinda simulation game, but a lot of people dislike their expansion pack system), I can understand that POV.

I agree with what doctorofjournalism said though about the "I wanted to see how it plays." On Steam, you can get refunds up to two hours of gameplay, so that should be plenty of time to decide if you're interested in the game/if you can run it. So I don't personally find that to be much of a valid reason to pirate.

2 months ago
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see with that i would say buy sims just dont buy the expansion.
" "I wanted to see how it plays." On Steam, you can get refunds up to two hours of gameplay, so that should be plenty of time to decide if you're interested in the game/if you can run it. "
Its plenty of time to see if it runs but i think a lot of games require almost 3-5 hours. I am slow and like to be thorough so 2 hours for me is nothing. I can usually not tell in two hours unless the game is really bad. Which is why i have quite a few games i got 1/4 of the way through and thought you know what boring characters, story its just not worth the time. but thats more of a me thing.

2 months ago
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If you close your eyes and ignore the bad things you can cause with this... keep going... :)

2 months ago
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Why are you coming to a community that is essentially biased towards legally owning a game-- even if it is via a lottery-based key exchange-- searching for absolution for pirating?

2 months ago
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not absolution its called opinions to hear what people have to say. I buy my games when they are worth it every game i finished i bought or even if i knew i liked it i payed for it i just dont want to spend 60$ on a game to find out its junk especially with no demo's which we need more of.

2 months ago
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Depends on where you live. If, for example, in Germany, then no, zero wiggle room. In many EU countries, you can download anything freely, but installing a pirated software and accepting the original EULA is again technically a reason to get you to court (nobody is looking at that at home consumers though). In Russia, it is illegal on paper, in reality their official state-controlled facebook knock-off's second most common usage is sharing pirated software directly or through torrent/magnet files. In SEA, even multinational companies can use pirated stuff without caring about anything.

2 months ago
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In many EU countries, you can download anything freely, but installing a pirated software and accepting the original EULA is again technically a reason to get you to court

This is a bit of an oddity as in Europe specifically said EULAs often aren't legal in the first place.

2 months ago
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Parts of them. They are still contracts, just contracts cannot overwrite the laws themselves.

2 months ago
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is it not like if part of contract is illegal, all of contract is void, and general law is applied?

2 months ago
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Depends on the particular case itself, and which country the trial would be held in.

2 months ago
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ok, I was thinking that this was one of the things EU pushed on members
TIL

2 months ago
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there is a certain clause you can use in a contract to avoid that (forgot the name).

2 months ago
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interesting! in Poland, there is register of forbidden clauses, so if contract contains such, you have few options to fight with it.
So if there is clause that allows you to have other bad clauses - clauseception!

2 months ago
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severability. If part of a contract is found invalid, the rest of the contract still holds. but that clause needs to be in the contract...

2 months ago
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I don't mean to be rude, but I had a very hard time reading what you had written. I think part of it was the second paragraph - I think you meant you picked vote 3, not both 3. I don't even look at polls until after I read an article, so that made no sense, and the rest of what you wrote wasn't much of a help in figuring it out. Treat an article like a story, giving the reader context and structure, and you'll get folks back on track even when a mistake threatens to derail them.

For trials, Origin gives you ten hours of game time as a trial for many of their games, and they are much safer than a download off some pirate site. I am a slow player myself, but ten hours is longer than the amount of time I've put into many games I've bought and completed.

Even with all these videos there is a lot that do not even show real game play on steam/store pages which is not useful for me.

Honest question: Have you never tried YouTube and Twitch to see gameplay? Some games have thousands of hours of gameplay available and even many indie games have whole series or channels dedicated to them. You can '100%' many adventure games in playthroughs, even having the player narrate subtitles for you to save you the effort of reading. Never have you had this much access to - heck, people begging you subscribe to - folks playing video games for you to watch.

2 months ago
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i hardly ever beat a game in ten hours.
I will go through my article i may have miss typed as i did delete and back track a bit i am not a story teller sorry.
10 hours though really? i did not know that. that is a very good amount of time. Thanks for the tip.

2 months ago
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I might get shit on by other people because my opinion, but i dont find pirating to be that oh so awful thing everyone seems to claim it to be and I don't see a problem with what you are doing. Devs get their money and you get to play the game.
Even if people are not buy it later I don't really see a problem. I mean who said that the people who did that would even buy the game if pirating was not an option, so it is not like devs can say they are losing money because of pirates.

I could write a huge wall of text about it but I have to go to work >.> Oh and for the record I haven't pirated a game in over 5 years.

2 months ago
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+1 When people always assume the "lost sales" when those that pirate probably wouldn't (or couldn't) buy such things in the first place anyway.

Not to mention we had these piracy discussions before.

2 months ago
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thats true some would not buy them any way i agree. I use it as a means of knowing what i am getting in to. Also not to be promoting other things or changing topic but playing fallout shelter right now and i am very impressed if no one has herd of it.

2 months ago
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Whether downloading causes harm or not is debatable; However what is not debatable is the fact that people deserve some sort of reward for the effort they have made unless they put out the game for free themselves in the first place.

As many here have already said, nowadays there are plenty of legal options of researching the quality of a game without actually having to pay for it or at least the option to get your money back so I do not really see a reason to pirate even for the sake of trying a game out. I would actually argue that from the players' (as in gaming community) downloading a game and later buying it is very much the same as downloading it and not buying it because you have already contributed to the total number of illegal downloads of a game that are later being used as a reason for including more and more distruptive anti-piracy walls into games that are making the life harder for all the paying players who then resort to piracy (even if just for the sake of riping their already purchased copy of a game) and so the circle continues.

2 months ago
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I have broken down my reply into pieces in the hope of making it more understandable (yay for shitty English writing skills)

However what is not debatable is the fact that people deserve some sort of reward for the effort they have made unless they put out the game for free themselves in the first place.

While I completely agree with you on this one, if you got no money/you can not buy the game where you are from, there is not much you can do. Yes, you just could not play the game but why would you do that if there is a way to play anyways.

As many here have already said, nowadays there are plenty of legal options of researching the quality of a game without actually having to pay for it or at least the option to get your money back so I do not really see a reason to pirate even for the sake of trying a game out.

Well OP gave you his reasoning as to why those ways don't work for him. I can not really say more on this as I never did that myself.

downloading a game and later buying it is very much the same as downloading it and not buying it because you have already contributed to the total number of illegal downloads of a game that are later being used as a reason for including more and more distruptive anti-piracy wall

I very much disagree that it is the same. If you pirate it and then buy it the devs still get compensated for their hard work. They might get less money at a later date, but some money is better than no money right? It is not like making more copies of a game costs money (lets ignore physical games as they are getting less and less popular anyways). I would also like to add that devs/publishers don't/cant know anywhere near the exact number how many times a game was pirated. And if they are dumb enough to decide to add more disruptive anti-piracy walls they are screwing themselves over in the end anyways. I mean, just look at all the Denuvo protected games getting cracked left and right. They spend money on it, some people might refuse to buy it on the bases that the game has Denuvo and then a week later the game gets cracked anyways so everyone who has a little bit of patience can happily pirate it.

even if just for the sake of riping their already purchased copy of a game

Well that is legal where I am from so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

2 months ago
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I have started writing that as a reply to you but in the end shifted the text to more of a general preach which should have been posted as a standalone reply to the OP, not you, sorry about not doing so in the first place.

  1. I am just gonna say that the first point is subjective, from my point of view not having money does not justify downloading the game. I would be more understanding towards those for whom the game is not available at all and it is known that it won't be in foreseeable future though. Might be totally okay for someone else though so all I can do is to express my opinion (not like I would really want to do anything else).

  2. Regarding the OP's reasoning. I don't really buy that because to me it seems unreasonable (again, subjective) but as I have said at the start of this comment, that was meant in general, not towards your comment so let's not waste time discussing it.

  3. As for the third part, that was supposed to advocate how pirating punishes us, who buy games legally rather than about the damage done to the developers (hence the part about pirating and buying game later which makes no sense if looked on as a damage to the devs). At the end of the year we are always getting lists of most pirated movies, shows and games so I assume that publishers can get at least some estimated data.

  4. Not really arguing about legality or illegality of doing so, just adding it as another example of increasing the number of pirate downloads in regards to previous point.
2 months ago
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There is actually research that shows that piracy has a positive effect on the (national, I suppose) economy, though – as I saw it some years ago – I wouldn’t know the veracity of this study. I am also aware of (game) studios that have experimented with piracy, which often didn’t turn out to be a success – but on the other hand, how many people who buy games haven’t complained about needlessly restricting and intrusive DRM, even citing it as a reason to pirate things?

It stands to reason, however, that if people are not going to buy a company's product anyway (because they don’t have enough money, for example), then piracy is a net profit for this company. After all, the company loses nothing – there is no potential sale to be made, and no disks or such are being stolen – and the company gains publicity.

And what if you already have a copy of the game - in that case, a company does lose out on sales, but is it fairer that they do so, or that you need to buy the same thing twice? Or what if you can't get a copy where you live (and what if you can, but can use different currencies to pay a far cheaper price than intended for your location?)?

I think a case can be made that Steam (especially its sales) or GOG.com or such are similar to iTunes and all. Steam offers platform-specific rewards (community, achievements, a whole social sphere, so to say) and both offer a lot of convenience (access anywhere, latest patches, special fixes…). Just as iTunes decreased pirated music, so too do I expect Steam and GOG.com to have had such an impact on pirated games. Not on all games – see my second paragraph – but some.

2 months ago*
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If you're really only using it to demo the game, I don't personally have a problem with it. However, I wouldn't run any pirated games on my pc because of the risk of viruses / malware.

2 months ago
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honestly i have probably done this 30 times not a single problem ever. You just have to pay attention dont download any 10mb games that should be 10gb. Read some comments.

I also like pirating for older games emulators are great i would like to buy older emulators for steam. but thats wishing upon a star.

2 months ago
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I always weave through traffic, I've done it 30 times and not a single problem ever. Just pay attention to other cars don't hit the break at the wrong time.

Also reading comments should definitely keep you away from viruses, since you know all commenters are virus experts.

2 months ago
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Strictly speaking, Piracy is only ok if the game is not available to purchase through legal means in your country because of either censorship or the publisher being a dick and not releasing it there.
It's also ok to use pirated copy methods for legal owners if the pirated version offers a superior experience. (Like those No-Disc cracks for older DRM protected games before Steam was mainstream)

2 months ago
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downloaded as a student, now i pay (still trying to buy the games i once played (unless they were "broke or awful" :D)

2 months ago
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The wiggle room, in my opinion, is if you've bought the game somewhere (mainly physically) and then lost the (physical) copy.
Then there's the matter of games that aren't distributed any longer, which I also think is kinda OK.
Other than those two cases above, I'd imagine it's just standard illegal piracy.

2 months ago
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IMO It's okay if you don't have any money. I downloaded a ton of games back when I was a student. Now that I work I try to buy all the games that I enjoyed when I was younger, I don't even have to play them per se.

2 months ago
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IMO It's okay if you don't have any money.

Do you apply this reasoning to all things in life?

2 months ago
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Probably not..because stealing intellectual property if you got no money is different than stealing real items.
If you pirated intellectual property the owner of the property won't even notice, but if you really steal something it's actually missing...

Sure it's still wrong/illegal, but it's def. not the same.

2 months ago
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Somewhat different, however it's the same outcome. In one hand you're stealing physical property, the other you're stealing a product the publisher/developer's potential paycheck comes from. You are impacting their paycheck, the longevity of them being able to support the game, and hurts the chances or quality of another game being made. Regardless of the case, the owner of the product loses financially.

2 months ago
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I disagree. If you can't afford the game, how does pirating affect their paycheck? In that scenario, you only have 2 options:

  • Not pirate the game, but not buy it either, since you can't afford it. Devs get nothing.
  • Pirate the game. Devs get nothing.

How is the outcome any different?

2 months ago
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Well, if you assume that those are the literal only two choices in existence, that you'd be right, but there are others believe it or not. Playing a game isn't a need, so there isn't really any justifiable reason for taking it other than greed. And if you really REALLY want a game, you save up for it. Ways of saving for a game even when things are tight are usually making due with less on other aspects, like packing lunch instead of buying, or if you are buying it maybe getting the $5 chicken wrap rather than the $8 sub as an example. Slowly saving up for something is hard work, and making excuses is literally just that, excuses.

And if the scenario REALLY existed that you're absolutely too tight up for money to ever afford that game you really want, maybe you should get your priorities in order and focus on finding a way to earn more money with your free time, rather than game.

2 months ago
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I'm not making any excuses. Just saying some people might have a justifiable reason for pirating, not everything is about greed. You don't know what goes through someone's life to tell them to get their priorities straight, especially if someone's studying and can't focus on a job at the moment. And even with the scenario of saving money, you would be able to buy 1 of the games you want after a really long time of saving, then you would have to start all over again to buy another. And also in that scenario, what would be the difference between pirating now and then buying the games in the future when you can afford them? That would also have the same outcome.

Like I said in another comment, life's too short. The fact that I can't afford a game or song or TV show won't stop me from enjoying them now. If I can afford them in the future, I'll definitely buy them, but now is more important. The joy of art is too good to wait on and there might not be a tomorrow.

2 months ago*
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That some people also might have a justifiable reason for any other illegal activity like raping, child abduction, bank robbery, mass murder etc. I can really give you "justifiable" reasons for all these activities. I think that's why we have laws

2 months ago
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That's true, but like I've repeated multiple times and people still aren't able to understand, piracy is completely harmless.

Rape -> the raped person gets hurt.
Child abduction -> the child and their parents get hurt.
Bank robbery -> the bank and its clients get hurt.
Mass murder -> the murdered people get hurt.

Piracy -> no one gets hurt. It affects nothing. In fact, piracy might contribute to the person, because if you pirate something and you end up liking it you are more likely to buy it. For instance, when I used to pirate games I would always wish that I could buy them so I could enjoy the full experience (achievements, online playing, and other stuff like that...), and today I have bought or won most of the games I used to pirate and I don't pirate games anymore, exactly because I want the full experience. With music or TV shows it's difference because you already get the full experience when pirating them.

It's unfair to put piracy in the same category as those other crimes.

And if the only reason you think something is wrong is because there is a law preventing it, you're not really a good human being (same applies to religion). Back in the day owning slaves was legal, did that make it right? In some countries, killing homosexuals is legal, does that make it right?

2 months ago*
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  1. there are people who don't have the money. they can't save money for their games because they have to spend the little they have for much more important things. you sound like everyone has the possibility to buy at least some games. that is not always the case.

  2. if we established that someone is not able to buy games at all, or to buy all the games he wants to play - what exactly is the harm in copying a game then? really, what is the harm? because there definitely is no impact on anyone's paycheck, that much should be clear.
2 months ago
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Agreed. Also I feel a person playing your game even if they didn't pay for it, is better than some not playing your game who also didn't pay for it.
+1 person viewing content of your game via facebook/twitter/youtube/streaming sites
+1 person visiting forums/website
+1 potential customer if they like the game and want updates/achievements/cards etc

Obviously only applies to digital, not stealing from the store where you actually lose money from the theft.

2 months ago
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Great points. :)

2 months ago
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Like rafaelgs18 wrote:
If I don't have the money/don't want to pay for it i can either not Pirate it and the dev gets nothing or I pirate it and the dev gets nothing.
And at least he didn't lose something physical (like if I'd stolen a game from a shop) because that actually would hurt people financially.

That's not to say that I support pirating or that it has no effect at all, but it's pretty annoying that it's often heavily demonized.

It even starts with the word we use for it: Piracy
Piracy"...was actually "robbery or illegal violence at sea"

And how excatly is copyright infringement a violent crime?

Though I have to say:
Kudos to the music-lobby to get us to use a word that's associated with violence for this form of illegal activity......

2 months ago
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See my response above to raf

2 months ago
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why should he? he applied it to pirating video games. that does not mean he must apply it to everything else. an example:

  • a man is starving and steals a loaf of bread to survive.
  • a man steals a car.

so yes, i would apply what skankhunt42 said to the first case. absolutely. wouldn't do it for the second one. now another example:

  • I don't have a car, so i steal a car.
  • I don't have money, so i copy a game.

also very different in my opinion. first, copying is not stealing. then if someone doesn't have money to buy games anyway, he might as well copy them. i simply don't see the harm in that. i did it as a kid, and i did it when i didn't earn enough money to afford such things. and now i pump a lot of money into the video game industry every year. ^^

i have a problem with people who could easily afford their games but rather pirate them, though.

2 months ago
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i have a problem with people who could easily afford their games but rather pirate them, though.

Which is the point. The OP is a prime example of how this behavior can quickly become codified and continue long into a person's life, beyond adolescence. If you see yourself justified in piracy and feel the practice is widely accepted, why would you ever stop? It's a slippery slope.

2 months ago*
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i don't think it is. at least not for everybody. let's go back to my examples. just because i am fine with someone stealing food to survive, that doesn't mean i will ever be ok with him stealing a car. that's no slippery slope. same for piracy. i can define a line where it shifts from being ok to not ok (there may be a small grey area, but that doesn't change the argument).

2 months ago
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Totally legit to download aka "pirate" if you cannot purchase a game legally in a country or if it is too much censored. So yes, there is a wiggle room.

2 months ago
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I used to emulate the shit out of GBA and GB games when in middle school. But now, now I support developers (and publishers, as even if a few are run by scumbags, they actually support projects that otherwise couldn't get enough budget).

Also, you may have read this.

2 months ago
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Steam's 2-hour refund window is sometimes not enough for me....sheesh...it took me 12 hours to get Alien: Isolation to even start up to the main menu and I couldn't even refund that as I got it in a bundle. I have been stuck with a few games that I have never been able to play and some that I was having a few issues with, but was able to fix, but not soon enough for me to see if I actually liked the game(I sometimes didn't) and could not justify a refund due to not knowing if I did or not during the very short window. So, using pirated software is kinda okay imho to "demo" the game as long as it's just to make sure that it runs okay on your hardware and/or to see if you like it.

Personally, I've only pirated a game once due to not finding much info about it anywhere online, meaning no reviews anywhere and the few videos I did find were Let's Plays which I tend to avoid for games I might buy due to spoilers. A few people even mentioned that they couldn't get to the game to run on their discussion forum of 1 thread. :P I wound up buying that game, plus it's DLC that same day.

2 months ago
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have a nice cake day lol 🎇🈲

2 months ago
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Thank you. =]

2 months ago
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In Turkey all Bethesda and Ubisoft games are more expensive than in EU and USA because of a shitty retail seller, Steam has to price match. Most games have regional pricing though. So I would understand if people pirate these.

Also Denuvo games, they're wrong in a customer approach. I don't want triple DRM in my game when pirates get a "better" version themselves and they can play offline. That's just screwing the customers. I'm not even talking about the performance hit controversy and them collecting personal data. Personally I never paid for a Denuvo game and I never will.

About the emulators, I don't see a problem emulating old stuff like PSX and PS2 games on your PC. It's not like you can even buy those and support the developers anymore.

EDIT: Please keep blacklisting me for not paying $80 (320 lira = 1/4 of minimum wage) for a $60 game and not giving a dime to Denuvo games with loot packs.

2 months ago*
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So do you donate the regular price to a good cause and then pirate the Bethesda game? ;)

2 months ago
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No, I simply do not play them and it doesn't kill me when I don't. I'm happy I'm not funding them for Creation Club in Wolfenstein II :D

The last Bethesda game I bought was Skyrim. They didn't have extremely high prices before. It started last year.

2 months ago
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Out of topic, we still don't know who is the mastermind behind these overly expensive prices, right? There were speculations about Aral, but I don't know what happened in the end.

P.S. Are you sure Bethesda and Ubisoft games are expensive, maybe you mean 2K? :P

2 months ago
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It is Aral. Last year they got a huge fine from the government for price fixing throughout retail stores but they can't do anything about price matching on Steam.

I think you're right, Ubisoft just doesn't have regional prices. Bethesda and 2K games are expensive. Like Evil Within 2.

2 months ago
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There's no wiggle room. Pirated games are always illegal. Thats the fact.
I do however understand why people do it. I did it myself a lot until about 15 years ago.

2 months ago
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Just a note:
The main reason for piracy is that prices are not adjusted to countries.
For example: a person in Eastern Europe works for 2$/hour pays the same price as a person in England who works for 8$/hour.
Steamgifts is not the best place to talk about piracy anyway, try reddit.

2 months ago
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a person in Eastern Europe works for 2$/hour pays the same price as a person in England who works for 8$/hour.

Is this accurate lol?`:o

2 months ago
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As a person from Eastern Europe I can confirm the 2$ part.

2 months ago
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I misread 25$/hour and I almost packed by bags and booked a ticket.

2 months ago
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do whatever you want. i find it more honest when someone says they pirate than when they are against it, then they buy all their games for 99% off to "support the devs".
pirates and non-pirates will always try to come up with excuses about their superior morality and/or reasons. some will be valid to some people and others will find them stupid.

so if you want to pirate, just do it. it is illegal, though.

2 months ago*
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i find it more honest when someone says they pirate than when they condone it

Somehow it looks like you have the wrong impression of what condone actually means, or I'm simply not getting what you're trying to say here :)

then they buy all their games for 99% off to "support the devs"

Would you care to elaborate? I get the feeling you're suggesting that there's something morally wrong with buying games at a deep discount but that's probably not the case.

2 months ago*
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condone = condenar in spanish sounds too similar, i always get them mixed up.


people like to claim they support devs by buying everything discounted in bundles, which makes no sense to me, as much as pirating because they are poor (poor with a pc, internet, and probably spending money to go out with friends, smoking, etc.).

if they are gonna support devs, buying a $20 game when it's $2 makes no sense at all. they are just patting their backs *"we did something good!"* and all they did was getting a cheap deal for themselves.

2 months ago
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Ah, easy mix up by the looks of it. Still trying to unpack the part about buying discounted games though. I can't even see why anyone would need an excuse to buy discounted games. Even the worst case scenario with an infinitesimally small regard to developer support for buyers decisions will be better than no purchase at all.

if they are gonna support devs, buying a $20 game when it's $2 makes no sense at all

Sure it does. It supports them with a $2 purchase. I've fairly recently bought 2-pack of TOXIKK from chrono.gg mostly because I like this type of game and want to support them for making a modern variant. I've never played the game and there's a high likelihood that I never will for various reasons, so if I didn't specifically wanted to support them I would never have bought the game.

2 months ago*
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If I buy a $20 game for $2, the developer still gets $1.40 from it. It's not much, but it's $1.40 more than they would have had if I didn't buy the game at all.

If 100,000 people buy it at $2, the developer gets $140,000.
If 100,000 people pirate it, the developer gets $0.
If 100,000 people don't buy it at all, the developer gets $0.

If you're the developer, which of these scenarios would you prefer?

2 months ago
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++ i agree with this discounting old games and throwing it in a bundle is a good way for people to get a good deal and for devs and charity to make easy money off something that might not be selling at all for 10$ but for 2$ does well.

2 months ago
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of course it's better than pirating for the dev, publisher, and everyone else getting a cut, i didn't say that. but it sounds extremely silly when a person claims he buys games to support the industry and all he does is get games with huge discounts. that looks more like "supporting" himself.

2 months ago
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Well, for me the options are:
1) Buy at a huge discount
2) Pirate it
3) Don't buy at all

I don't pirate, or buy Used or from grey-market sites, because gaming is both a hobby and a passion, and I legitimately do want to support the developers that make games so that they can keep making games. But my funds are limited, and thus I wait until a huge discount and buy it then. I know buying on sale doesn't support the devs as much as buying on release, but $5-10 a game is the best I can do, and is better than the alternatives. If a game is particularly good, I'll buy the overpriced DLC as a tip to the devs and my way of saying "Thank you."

What I can do is advocate for buying games, and explain to people why buying games - and buying them New and from authorized resellers - is important and helps support the hobby, and to hopefully steer some people away from piracy, used sales, and grey-market resellers.

2 months ago
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Agreed, I pirated the first Witcher game when it came out.
Since then I've bought all of the Witcher games and dlcs because the games are great and they deserve it.
I could have easily pirated them all.

2 months ago
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Which is certainly a good thing. However, does that automatically make the inverse true?

As in, would you have only bought Witcher games due to pirating the first? Is there no other way you would have considered interest them?

People like to bandy about this notion of discovery, but I think it's a bit disingenuous at times (I'm not accusing you of this, however). I think there are exceptions that prove it true as in your case, but not as many that would have otherwise still occurred naturally. As for myself, I'm definitely a fan of series that I pirated when I was younger-- an argument for pirate-to-customer. However, I likely would have checked them out in some form eventually, due to my interest.

2 months ago*
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I agree. I think the notion of piracy leading to sales is a bit disingenuous too. Sure, it does happen sometimes, but I think it's pretty minor.

Likewise the notion of pirating games as demos. There's so much information about games now that we usually have a pretty good understanding of if we'll like it before we ever play it. Only 2-3 times have I disliked a game I thought I would enjoy and regretted my purchase.

When I pirated games, 15+ years ago, I did it simply because I could - it's what everyone did. Games were like Pokemon, and we had to collect them all. Most of the games I pirated I never even played. Only a few times did my friends and I end up buying a game because of it that we wouldn't have purchased otherwise.

Sure, after I got a job, I ended up buying the games I pirated to make up for it, but I don't think that counts.

2 months ago
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It's your choice in the end. No point in justifying anything with "wiggle room". You either choose to pirate or you don't.
(That might be an unpopular opinion but it is my stance on it.)

2 months ago
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respect your opinion

2 months ago
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