Justice That You Can Actually Do Something About

I hate to be the one to say this, but it doesn't matter if it's good or bad to get keys from them, I personally don't. It doesn't matter because it's a cheap way to get keys, and being a sketchy site wont stop people from buying them, even if "it's wrong."

i stick to buying things right off steam and humble bundle-giving 100% to the charity's. vavles made it possible for me and a poor person to own a shit load of games.

Justice work both ways, we gamers have been getting ripped off by these companies, where is our justice?

You know that there are developers that have a deal with sites like G2A in order to be the exclusive sellers of their own games, right? xD But anyway, not every key is stolen. And it's normal that people don't want to pay the shitty prices that steam has.

Yep, this has always been my biggest beef with G2A. It's clear they're now making leaps and bounds toward legitimacy, but that doesn't change the fact that the entire foundation of their business was based on illegal/grey practices. It's no different than the Kennedy family founding their fortune during Prohibition.

It's a sickening cycle you see in many industries. Avoid prosecution long enough in order to make the requisite $$$ to settle all litigation out of court. Before you know it, you're "too big to fail." Capitalism is a helluva drug.

I mean, can you really blame G2A? Think about it - a platform for you to securely sell your unused keys for real money. Sounds bloody great! Until people steal keys and start selling them there. I'm not saying G2A is without fault, but, if I had to choose only one culprit, I would choose the thieves who steal and/or sell illegitimate keys there.

I question most, if not all, operating assumptions and the conclusions drawn by this thread.

If you want to talk about the issue, there's room to talk about the issue. Unverifiable/unsupportable claims and scare tactics aren't the way to do that---and seem to be natural manifestations of more sinister and deliberate machinations. It's a means to an end that benefits a specific majority of the market sellers--- even this very thread rationalizes a number of other repulsive practices as being direct consequences of this particular scapegoat instead of realizing them to be the inevitable practices of an industry that would otherwise just have a different scapegoat.,

There are plenty of reasons to take issue with these places, but the idea that their stock is actually stolen is incredibly dubious. Even the idea that a significant minority of the keys are traceable to obvious fraud----and thus "illegal and immoral"---is going to take a lot more data than we've been given.

I'm far more concerned about the attempts to eliminate the right of resale, consumers' control, and arbitrage opportunities, all being pressed particularly hard by the industry lately, and for obvious reasons of self-interest.

Keys don't just fall off the back of a truck, and their creators already have far more control oven---even after the point of sale, and resale six times over---than any traditional product. The position of helplessness and vulnerability is quite odd related to the fencing of traditional goods----why aren't we talking about that?

If anything, I see this push as an 'organic' extension of a calculated effort to trick consumers into taking up causes which are neither in their self-interest nor directed at forces most able to manifest meaningful change and/or warranting the responsibility. It all seems akin to something like customers being manipulated into bagging their own groceries---led into work companies previously had to pay others to do. Moreso, they're tricked into wanting and appreciating that work due to deliberate staff cutbacks to create longer queues, allowing customers to feel savvy at avoiding these long lines instead of realizing they're being shit on.

The argument at large is driven entirely by guilt by association, and the presumption that if any corruption exists, the entire entity must be corrupted. It's a presumption equally applicable to all grey-market situations--and just as bullshit there. There's even a natural creeping of these words where grey-market is inherently accepted as black-market. largely at work here too.

While cases of fraud must exist on some level--as they do in all situations--there really isn't any empirical data backing up these claims about the size. At best, I'm about to be linked that one article by that one developer saying they got massive amounts of charge-backs trying selling keys on their own site, ergo all other keys are stolen.

It's far, far, far more likely that the pricing differences across sites are from a combination of a marketplace factors, one being the prominence of so many buyers and many sellers to drive prices into an equilibrium, IE, the market better resembles the very idea of what a free-market looks like more in theory under the operating assumptions.

If I had to speculate, I'd say the odds heavily lean towards there being LESS stolen merchandise available on the key markets than traditional second-hand marketplaces like craigslist and eBay. Aside from those globalization factors, there are the more overt second-hand answers to apply in many situations where sellers/buyers exchange the numerous keys from bundles, promotions, or other means which they derive less utility from than X value in cash.

Are these prices so comparatively cheap due to the effects of globalization, wholesale-eque pricing from bundles, and varied pricing schemes across widely different economics? (IE, a working definition of the term. grey market). Nah, everything is just stolen-----and now grey = black, a fittingly appropriate circumstance for how the carrying the torch for this argument ultimately reduce these situations down to simple matters of black and white.

Okay Im done now. The end. I'm not up for the pitter-patter of specific debate, so here an essay. I guess. .Spent more time writing than intended and don't really feel up for editing and formatting. I'm probably not gonna respond or care anymore.after this, (even more so with to line by line arguments). but these are my thoughts. anyway.,Ttake em, make em, break em. I've said my piece and it is what it is. shrug

Capitalism rules world and has to die first... then we get rid off this shit too... we are robbing 3rd world to drive cars etc... but cry about shady grey market... :3

If I'm not mistaken keys bought with stolen credit cards get revoked. (Unless they bought the games at Walmart or some other retail store, not a safe way to buy with a stolen credit card).

We live in a shitty world, if you want to do some good don't text n drive, don't litter. If you want to do some real good donate your time and build houses for the homeless, walk about your block/local park and clean it up. Etc etc

I don't know why everyone has beef with g2a. I used to sell keys that were leftovers from bundles or from offer sites where I put my time into earning. What's the problem with that? Because some others use it to sell stolen keys? Those accounts are used quickly and thrown away, aka don't buy from low rep shitheads unless your ready for the risk (which BTW I've had several revokes and they gave me back my purchase amount within 5 minutes each time. I repurchased the same game cheaper...) But for an example take DVD-Rs, do we stop all the companies that make n sell them because that's literally the only way bootleggers can get their illegal goods burned n sold? Nah, so I don't think a few pieces of shit that use a site to do illegal activity should be a representation of the whole. EBay/Amazon is just as rift with scum.

Since then I've discovered trading and I prefer it to selling/purchasing games. Do my offer work, redeem n trade. Couldn't get better.

I agree with theorizing that these sort of sites are involved in laundering.

+1

Most of the products on Steam are total crap, suitable only to mindlessly pass an hour or so of ppl's precious life time - so your beloved 'publishers & developers' sell air for money, shouldn't we boycott all Steam & the industry itself for that grim injustice?

G2A is scummy no doubt, reselling/trading your legit acquired keys however, should be within
your freedums and depending on your country its either legit/unregulated/unclear/insignificant.

As for shitpeddling AA - AAA developers/publishers they should fix it themselves ...

If a game is being stolen
Retailers who have their stock stolen
keys may be revoked at any time.
stolen and questionably acquired

^ Here is an idea to stop all of that ... don't offer payment options that aren't safe - simple as that. Its almost 2018 and "they" still haven't figured a way to cut out fraudulent payment for good? How about sticking to old wire transfer then ... those are known to be irreversible. Meanwhile ... some Rando in Bumfukistan is buying 10.000 x Call of Duty: WWII (Steam Key ROW), and paying with CC? "Thank you for your order Mr. Isnogud Feiht, coming right up!"

(e.g. games bought en masse in cheap regions)

^ Aren't we almost at the top of mount restrict? Too dumb/easy going to make use
of valves wealth and power of region locks? Enjoy the consequences.

further bad trends in the gaming industry.

^ Too late ... read a book or something once it gets unbearable.

By boycotting these sites, you are also hurting legitimate users who legitimately want to resell some of their owned games (licenses, actually) they don't use. Items that are purchased using stolen credit cards or otherwise fraudulent methods are almost always revoked, so no harm is done to developers/publishers (they just send Valve a list of keys to deactivate).

There are fraud protection methods and if developers/publishers/online stores don't use them it's hardly anyone but theirs fault (hint: a single unverified credit card buying 10.000 copies of your game through a VPN IS fraudulent and should never go through). Other things like regional pricing are unethical (i.e. Russia and Poland have about the same GDP pro capita according to IMF, but they pay wildly different prices), so I have no reason to support them.

Never bought anything from there and never will.

Also I'm sad that few years ago polish site was fighting with those sites by not promoting their "deals" and forbid to write about them in the forum. But when they made contract with site owner and provide money from referrals it magically started to be ok and constantly promoted on main page. That's really strong moral backbone to shit on something constantly and fight with, until it starts to pour money into our pockets ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I don’t use sites as those you mention but I do some trading from time to time and use Tremorgames and similar places to get some games when I do not feel like buying the full bundle. I also obviously use this site :)

However, I do not agree with most of the things you said and especially in what concerns justice, and immoral and illegal behaviors. Yes, the economy behind gray markets is sometimes shady but, apart from genuine theft (credit card fraud, stolen keys, etc…), it does little to damage the industry, from my point of view, and the right to resale has always been a provision of most legal systems.

The issue here is control over the product and over the market, not really lost sales. Some points:

• Regional pricing – regional pricing/regional blocking is not setup to help consumers but to optimize profits. Videogame publishers and platforms such as Steam already have legal problems due to some of these restrictions. On justice and immoral behaviors, big publishers have no qualms with evading taxes, using offshore accounts, and exploiting the global market… they make millions this way! If I as a consumer want to do the same to save a couple of euros, I’m a really bad person… I should just pay what they tell me and shut up.
• Closing down of studios – the videogame industry is infamous for having what is called layoff cycles and for increasingly using outside contractors. You pay people for the duration of the project and then you just lay them off when you don’t need them. This way you optimize your profits. In most cases, particularly the case of AAA publishers, the actual developers do not get more than their salaries for the duration of the project… truly immoral and unjust, from my perspective.
• Microtransactions – The invasion of freemium economies in the AAA scene has nothing to do with gray markets, piracy, increasing cost of production, or any other excuse. It is there for money only, because instead of selling a product for $60, they can sell it for $60+infinite amount. Candy Crush Saga, a successful free to play mobile game, makes an estimated $2,173,912 each day… yes, the equivalent of 36,232 full priced AAA games every day. It was inevitable for this model to reach a business that is mostly interested in the bottom line...

There is a lot to be done to improve this industry that we all love but most injustices and immoral behaviors come from the industry itself... but that's just my 2cents :)