Will things solve peacefully
tranqui choco se han sobrevivido peores, ahora se viene dias mejores para Bolivia, como siempre
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I can understand you man.
My country is in war with one of the biggest countries in the world (but they says that they are not there). We are fighting for freedom and democracy. But in the same time 76% of our people tricked with stupid TV show has voted for idiot jester.. And now he is trying to ruin everything what we are fighting for.
Fight for your rights bro!
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Wow, I remember when Evo Morales arrived to the power, it looked like it was a good change for the country.
Or this was the feeling I got from Europe.
I hate to see how things often turn bad in southern american countries.
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Lots of people jumping on band wagons in this thread without really having a clue.
For some perspective this is from Pink Floyd's Roger Waters. I agree with him.
https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1194717800633425926
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I'd honestly prefer Morales over the senator that proclaimed herself the new President without any voting or even without consulting the Senate. She's also an Evangelical - that means she is a member of a cult that is actively trying to bring forth the Apocalypse.
Sure, a change for the better /s
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Morales is/was a narcotrafic king. He ignored the results of the referendum asking for a reelection (he lost). He also made fraud on the last presidential elections to perpetuate himself in power (he had been president for 13 years).
The senator doesn't proclaimed herself, she was the next in command in the country (all other leaders resigned before). And that was in the Constitution, so it's not illegal.
The beliefs of somebody doesn't represent how she will be in charge of the nation. And finally, this is a transition government, there will be presidential elections soon.
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What I've said are also facts. So? Didn't stop you from immediately dismissing them.
She's a part of a cult that aims to hasten the Apocalypse, and she considers all indigenous people to be the Satanists.
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I need facts to believe you, so show me where did she say all that what you say. If you can't prove it, then is a lie
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15 seconds in Google https://www.truthorfiction.com/jeanine-anez-bolivia-libre-de-ritos-satanicos-indigenas/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-bolivias-interim-leader-says-evo-morales-cant-run-in-new-election/ - that's against the country's Constitution.
https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1794259/stand-in-president-brings-back-bible-to-bolivian-politics - Bible nutcase
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The freedom of though, conscience and religion is a human right. Are you against that?
Morales modified the Constitution only to be able to run again as a candidate for the fifth time (lol) https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-49926169
The Presidents of the United States of America also swears by the Bible, that makes them Bible nutcase? https://www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-internacional-38672574
Stop hating someone for their religion. That's a hate crime.
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Nice deflection. Way to dodge the hate crimes of the self-appointed president. I won't let you walk away from the issue at hand, though. Sorry.
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Well boy, the only thing that matters is this: Evo no more. Bye dictator, the communist are crying, just like you.
Bye!
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Oh sure, the right-winger racist who declared herself president is not a dictator, but a guy who won an election, and offered to have another election when concerns about the first one arose is a dictator.
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Ah, but a religious person can shit on indigenous believes and try to ban them? The fuck?
And its funny how religion gets away everytime, when the Catholic Church has the record on hate against other religions or people thinking different. You heard about Inquisition? THAT is hate crime
Also you defend a coup d'etat, thats directly a crime.
(Sorry for momentarily derail the topic at hand, Petersaber)
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No hay golpe de estado cuando el dictador, al verse descubierto, prefiere renunciar.
Pero bueno, sigan defendiendo a su doctrina asesina. Besos.
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There's no talking to these people. He probably doesn't even live in Bolivia - on Reddit, dozens of anti-Morales and pro-coup posters were found out to be posting from... Virginia, USA.
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Kinda sad how I really know nothing about countries from South America. I hope things will turn out good for you!
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Just read any history book from the past 70 years from any South America country, same shit different colour.
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You had questionable Morales who won a questionable election. Now you have a racist right-wing nutcase that proclaimed herself the president without consulting the people or the government. She's also an Evangelical - that means she is a member of a cult that is actively trying to bring forth the Apocalypse. You were burned by a match, so you jumped into an incinerator.
If I were you, I'd hope Morales' exile ends very soon.
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Having a different political point of view ain't ignorance.
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It's ignorance when your point of view is biased without any fact
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He rejected reality and substituted it with his own.
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I agree. Some people just think what TV tells them.
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There literally are leaked audio tapes of Bolivian military and right-wing party planning a coup with Mark Rubio and some other Americans, and these people still claim that Morales was an evil dictator and they're defending democracy...
It's all because of lithium. Bolivia has shitloads of it, and Morales was going to sign a trade deal with China, simultaneously refusing a much worse deal with USA.
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Having everyone before her resigned, she was the right one to be president according to the Constitution. Also, she's temporal, her role is to call for elections and conclude the present government period.
I do hope his exile ends very soon so he can go to jail here as he deserves. cheers
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"Having everyone before her resigned" - or murdered.
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Nice, I will believe everything I'll read in the internet.
Audios without any identification and the source is an unknown Costa Rican little newspaper. Very reliable
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Sure, because some dude on SG forum is more trustworthy.
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I'm not telling my opinion, I give you facts. But it's ok, a communist can't think of himself.
Bye!
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ok cute, but who was murdered? none of the persons who should take the president's place was murdered, you're just making up stuff
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My mistake. Noone was murdered, but left-wing people were forced out of their homes and assaulted, like Patricia Arce
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Man, you are so wrong. She is the vicepresident of the senate. According to the Constitution before her is the president of the senate, Adriana Salvatierra. She resigned? No, watch the video below about how the police is reducing her and not letting her access the ALP.
https://twitter.com/aran_tirado/status/1194715310651260928
https://www.lostiempos.com/actualidad/pais/20191114/salvatierra-dice-que-no-renuncio-su-curul-policia-impide-su-ingreso-alp
Are you supporting this attack to your democracy? A nice way to use the police, get rid of any political adversary and easily reach the power
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She resigned publicly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK_N_YXhZa0
then she came back saying she didn't, of course they won't let her pass
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A resignation is not legally binding if its made orally, you have to make it formally embodied in a written letter. Her resignation didn't reach the parliament, they didn't let her pass, so legally she is the president still.
Also, she resigned from being the president, not the president of the senate.
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Oye, le estás contando a un boliviano lo que pasa en Bolivia. Desde España. Cuánta todología!
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Un boliviano ve los mismos medios que puedo ver yo. Tenemos una cosa que se llama Internet, por si no lo conocias. Dudo bastante que vosotros hayais visto esto estando fisicamente presente en el lugar no?
Y vamos, la ley es la ley, y lo que he dicho lo puedes ver tu mismo
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Nah, tu puedes ver lo que los medios te quieran mostrar, y lo interpretas según tú ideología. No he visto ningún comentario tuyo al respecto de:
1.- El cambio que hizo Evo a la Constitución para poder postularse por quinta vez al poder. QUINTA VEZ.
2.- El desconocer los resultados del referendum para este cambio, en el cuál la opción NO ganó con un 51% de los votos.
3.- El fraude electoral denunciado por los auditores de la OEA, donde se da cuenta de falsificación de firmas y alteraciones de actas, entre otras irregularidades.
Pero bueno, esto fue un golpe de estado de USA, annunakis, masones y los marcianos. El santo comunismo, Rusia, Cuba y Venezuela no tuvieron nada que ver.
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Y vamos, la ley es la ley, y lo que he dicho lo puedes ver tu mismo
Depende de quien tuerza la ley a su favor se decide si esta bien o mal, ¿no?
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Videogames taught me you can always win with VIOLENCE
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Bueno y donde esta los jueguito que vas a sortear o venis a dar pena aca también ?
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my country is also going to hell so you're not alone ;D
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change
A list, for those that don't know.
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You think, your country is going to hell? Try to live in Russia.
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Bolivian security forces just opened fire on the indigenous protesters. With live ammo. https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/15/what-dictatorship-looks-bolivian-security-forces-open-fire-indigenous-protesters
Multiple wounded, some confirmed dead.
Jeanine Anez , the self-appointed president, called for an ethnic cleansing of indigenous citizens. https://twitter.com/204cRuiz/status/1194564823897407488
THIS IS SO MUCH BETTER THAN MORALES, GUYS! <sarcasm> This is clearly a successfully defended democracy.
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Unhappily, all reasoning is useless. The far right Nazi-fascists believe only what their leader commands, they live in a group and are without a brain, scientifically they are called a "colonial organism" like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_man_o'_war. They are dangerous and highly specialized in spreading bullshit on the internet. You can't make them think, they don't have the equipment to do it. This post is full of bullshit propagators, they are worse than viruses. You can only identify them and try to help others not fall into their traps: watch out for bullshitters.
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I don't post for them - I post for people who are on the fence and are uninformed - I'm counter-trolling, so people who are susceptible to trolls have an opposing view available, and thus can make up their own mind, rather than only get fed trolls' bull@#$%.
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they weren't protesting peacefully. they were throwing dynamite to anything, police, reporters, civilians. is the police supposed to let them just threaten people's lives?
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Oh yes, dynamite! Of course they were throwing dynamite. Several even fired their RPG-7s! And that one who did a strafing run in a in MIG-29?! Totally dangerous.
What else are you going to tell me, that they were killing puppies and children?
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https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=530704074449403
there you go. plus, police has captured cuban people with tons of money to pay to protesters, there's also guerrilla people among them. morales is sending innocent people to cause violence and die while he hides in mexico like the little bitch he is. truly honorable.
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It's a firecracker...
Browsing that FB profile. It's far, far from objective reporting... for example this profile says that lethal force isn't used against the protesters, while we know for a fact that no fewer than 5 were shot do death.
And of course, all protesters are paid for. They always are... when they are protesting the dictator you support.
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it is still dangerous, it can hurt people. and it did.
what about the cubans? and the guerilla? yo have no idea what's going on here mate. go believe what foreign media wants you to believe if your happy with it
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"what about the cubans? and the guerilla?" - zero proof of these.
Meanwhile, protesters are being killed with live ammo.
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idk if you can read spanish but there yo have.
one guerrilla guy among some protests was Facundo Molares, you can search about that, he's in a coma right here and of course we don't believe he's the only one.
as I said, I live here, I know what's going on.
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Spreading lies from Polland, lol. Telling a bolivian guy how is his reality from the other side of the world.
There is a lot of info about cuban and venezuelan infiltrators. But you're in denial, living in a parallel reality.
So much fun
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How the hell would I know if you're Bolivian? On Reddit, dozens of anti-Morales users claiming to be from Bolivia were actually posting from.... Virginia, USA. You're probably the same.
And there is no such country as "Polland".
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I'm chilean. I'm literally next to Bolivia. My mistake: is Poland. Other than that, you have nothing to support your claims.
:)
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Morales authorized the use of dynamite in protests since 2016. Is a very common practice in Bolivia
You know nothing, Petersaber Snow
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Protestors using dynamite: https://twitter.com/rodrygo_m3/status/1195514178146058240
Protestors and their weapons: https://twitter.com/SpaccesiAgustin/status/1195713493716144129
Venezuelans detained for promoting violence: https://twitter.com/Milleralvinom/status/1195406912801652744
Protesters being paid to march in favor of Evo: https://twitter.com/Gatitadelsur/status/1195456679858573313
Cuban detained for paying protesters: https://twitter.com/Mmorin_informa/status/1194791968968192001
What lies are you gonna say now?
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they replace the reality for their own cotton candy world often, why care?
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Why don't you update your thread? To be at least some kind of objective with the reality and the people watching. Now, there is TRULY a hell in your country, with civil protest and people being shot by the army, and at least 9 deaths and a hundred injured. But looks like that is not worthy of comment to you?
From your initial post in the thread you said "Of course, people are mad, we don't want him as president any longer, no one should have the power for so long so some cities engaged a civic strike. We are protesting peacefully for democracy and what was his answer? He sent his people with dinamite to block the roads to prevent us from getting food."
Now you can change it to suit whats happening "Of course, people are mad, we don't want a coup, no one should have the power without being voted, so some cities are engaged in protests. They are protesting peacefully for democracy and what was their answer? They sent the army to shot and kill protestors." Are you now against these protests as you were defending earlier the right to protest? You said Evo used dinamite to block roads, and now the people you are supporting are plain out killing innocents.
I can agree, as the OEA said, there were irregularities (and Evo should not have perpetuated himself on the power). But even OEA itself admitted Evo had majority on the elections still and they reccomended to repeat the elections. Evo agreed to repeat them, but no, the army made a coup to put whoever benefeats them or a elite.
You defended a civil war may be necessary in this thread. Now you might have it.
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I always try to throw in a random subject to make random GAs. At the time I was really concerned about the situation but I didn't think it would end up on this much people arguing because, well, I'm stupid I guess. I avoid politics on social media so I never really saw how it usually ends up. But now I'm sick of people like you and another bunch of foreigners here and on twitter trying to tell me what's going on in my country based on what they read on altered international media.
Añez was the one next to take de power. Do I like her? no, she's an ignorant and a fanatical. But she got there as the Constitution says she should. She didn't change laws to get there like your beloved Morales. Also her role is to call for elections and to conclude previous president period. We well have a legit president with elections.
About the deaths, well, they are protesting violently. we can't let them threaten peoples lives so it's only right that the police answers the way they did. I just hope there weren't deaths but they were calling for it. Morales is sending his own people to cause violence and die while he hides in Mexico. we have guerrilla people among them and cubans with a lot of money paying them to go there. sure man, we are the monsters here. believe that if it works for you.
I won't update the thread because I'm just tired of it. But hey, I learned my lesson.
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Por decreto permite que el ejército mate sin consecuencias, y puso además al estado a su disposición.
https://twitter.com/CIDH/status/1195817630533390336
(Twit de la CIDH)
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Mejor que los terroristas actúen a sus anchas y destruyan Bolivia para traer al dictador Evo de vuelta.
Las organizaciones de DDHH se transformaron en el refugio de los criminales de izquierda.
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Está claro que estás cegado por la ideología, militando desde lo antidemocrático, justificando la represión, acusando sin pruebas y creyendo sin pruebas lo que querés creer. Si te parece buena idea darle al ejército via libre para matar sin consecuencias revisá tus ideales.
Triste destino el de Bolivia, aún más triste con una latinoamérica ciega.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/TwK4PSg
Represión le llaman ahora a reestablecer el orden. Te di todas las pruebas, el único que no fue capaz de presentar ninguna prueba fiable fuiste tu.
Tu súper prueba fue una simulación de resultados electorales. Una simulación y estadística. Datos ficticios sacados desde un computador.
No te preocupes, Argentina próximamente estará en la misma situación. La gente se aburrirá de la pobreza que su Presidente y su Vicepresidenta delincuente le traiga al país.
Fuerza Bolivia! Abajo el terrorismo!
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Man, you were defending the right to protest when you were there, and now you are saying "I just hope there weren't deaths but they were calling for it" or "It's only right that the police answers the way they did" A nice way to justify death to people protesting (who are not your people of course) and be contrary to your believes.
Do you realize that by your mindset Evo could have done the same with you when you were protesting? Would you be ok with them killing people and legally allowing soldiers to kill civils without consequences? And that tale of them being all guerrilla people and being bought, you are delusional if you think that's the reality. They majority of people protesting are civil people like you or I. And Evo could have said the same and justify civil deaths as you are, spreading hate.
Really, no death is justified. Noone of the people who died was armed, as much as you want to believe. And making a blatant subjective thread is just desinforming people and only showing them one side of the argument, justifying oppression against the "others, because only your people matter it seems.
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As I said, their protest wasn't peaceful. They were armed, as much as you want to believe the opposite.
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Just 9 with 100, huh? Slow day at the office. I overestimated Evo.
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Bernie Sanders gets it:
https://twitter.com/People4Bernie/status/1195884845953470465
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Lo lamento por México. Al parecer tienen un narcoestado por allá.
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Sweet. I like his style. So maybe some killings will hopefully occur. I always said we needed a new plague, but a few murders will do just as well since the population of the Earth is out of control. Anyway, "buena suerte"! Oh sorry, I meant to say "estas jodido".
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the "new" study was funded by the CERP, whom where already pushing this exact same point, the statistical analysis doesn't show much variance between the previous election data and the final votes data, and attempts to prove statistically that the problems in the electorate system should not be enough to swing the vote.
the first red flag should be the CERP involvement, whom was pushing this exact point, literally all the time around the events here in Bolivia, second the research does not cover the evidence of modified transition data, of adulterated voting ballots or inaccurate numbers of people voting at all, like it didn't exist, and lastly, an statistical analysis of the correlation of trends cannot be used to derive such a conclusive conclusion.
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CERP? This study was made by:
John Curiel, is a research scientist with MIT’s Election Data and Science Lab. He earned his PhD in political science from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.
Jack R. Williams, is a researcher with MIT’s Election Data and Science Lab.
I think the MIT is as neutral as it can be.
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the MIT is a for profit institution, and researches be ask skewed as you want them to be, thats why the fossil industry still invest a lot of money funding colleges research that put in doubt some effects of climate change.
and i missed my acronyms there, is the CEPR, not CERP, ops, who is funding this research https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Economic_and_Policy_Research
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Right. Everybody who is saying there was a coup has been bought by someone. Unlike the people who made the coup, sorry, the revolution. They are white and pure as snow. And totally honest. Like their methods.
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im not saying that, just this case, it clearly is, its on their own paper, they're not hiding it.
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And by the same principle why believe without question a report by the OAS, who is far from objective. Because of that report, objectively speaking a coup was made. And three months later the elections also didn't take place.
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Que bueno que hayan sacado al comunista de Evo, no pudo alargar más su narcodictadura.
Y luego se viene Venezuela. Tiembla Maduro!
:)
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mainly because what the OAS, and EU reports for that matter, argue is that morales artificially inflated his votes during the election process, while this research argues that there is not much discrepancy between the collected results before and after the election, this statistical analysis is barely even brought up by the OAS report.
lastly, why not try to believe Bolivians, after all it is from us from whom the results where put into question first, not OAS, not EU, not any foreign actor, literal hours after they took place there were plenty of reports of vote manipulation, and luckyly for you a group of statisticians and software engineers put it all in a neat report: bit.ly/32qfAJs there was an english version of it, but im failing to find it atm
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Also if you like statistical analysis about the Bolivia election, here is one and made by an American university, just like the other report, but this one finds that the vote manipulation was indeed big enough to give Morales a fabricated victory.
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So on one hand we have the MIT's top researchers and on the other hand we have an associate Professor from University of Texas Rio Grande Valley. Hm. I am not sure who to believe.
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No need to revive this thread but anyway. MIT only seems to take in account the % and no the actual evidence, like how the information was forwarded to a non oficial server or the irregularities on the votes. it's late, I'm not in the mood to look that up for you and it wouldn't worth my time 'cause you'll just take the side of the truth that you like. Of course if was possible that he won but there were too many irregularities that seems to benefit him. Search for the OAS response if you care, cheers.
Anyway, we won. You can go cry with your half truth all you want. Many people here have prove you wrong anyway.
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The only thing you won is a dictatorship on your side of the political spectrum. Welcome to hell.
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the irony is that you are defending someone who was in power for 14 years, who had plenty of abuse of power accusations in his later years and wanted to effectively perpetuate himself in power.
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The point that was made in your own thread: "when the counting of votes was at 83% the results showed that there was going to be a ballotage, but the counting was stopped with no explanation to resume the day after to show an unusual increase in the votes for Evo"
In the study of MIT we can see that this claim is false, the tendency is the same before the counting stopped. And that was the main argument for the coup.
And "you'll just take the side of the truth that you like" says the pot calling the kettle black. "Many people here have prove you wrong anyway" Yeah, like arguments from biased people are more important than an independt study. There has to be more independent studies for what happened of course, but i guess it doesn't matter for you now that "you won". Now the minority in the parlament is on the goverment without being elected for it, but irregularities doesn't matter now that your side is on the power i guess.
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like i said before, your study is far from independent and unbiased, and does not acknowledge the physical evidence of vote manipulation, statistical analysis can only take you so far, and i even provided a statistical analysis that on the contrary does conclude that there was voter manipulation.
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But there has to be a strong proof for that to validate what happened, not only a single report from the OAS. The party of Evo Morales still are the majority on the parlament and those in the acting goverment are a minority. I agree with you on that Evo Morales perpetuated himself on the power, but I think what happened is an even greater attack to democracy.
I don't know why the military intervened when new elections were agreed to take place. From november till today elections did not take place still and the president of the senate who had to become the acting president was forced to resign too. I can understand that of Evo Morales, but why make that girl resign too?
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Kinds of sounds like the plot from Jack Ryan season 2.
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Have you heard of Bolivia? Yes! the country with no access to the sea.
Well, if you are unaware of what's happening, Evo Morales "won" the elections.
Thing is, for starters, he's been president for thirteen years, which is unconstituional. This year, however, it is worse because some years ago there was a referendum to decide if he was allowed to run for president once again and the results were no. He didn't care and still ran for it.
Now, back to the past Sunday (the 20th), when the counting of votes was at 83% the results showed that there was going to be a ballotage, but the counting was stopped with no explanation to resume the day after to show an unusual increase in the votes for Evo and declare him winner with no need for a second round.
Of course, people are mad, we don't want him as president any longer, no one should have the power for so long so some cities engaged a civic strike. We are protesting peacefully for democracy and what was his answer? He sent his people with dinamite to block the roads to prevent us from getting food.
And I feel like this is just the beginning…
So, yeah, have some stuff.
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