TechRaptor Article

Court documents show for 2019 and 2020 EGS ran negative $ 181 and $ 273 million
To establish the marketplace it's expected to take losses up front, but will it pay off? What do you think?\

(I tried to confirm this wasn't posted before, if it was comment and I'll delete)

4 weeks ago

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Will EGS eventually make it big?

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Yes
No
Potato

Not wasting my money on a store that makes exclusives games on PC

4 weeks ago
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I hope you'll change your mind by 2023, as per the plan

4 weeks ago
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Why?

4 weeks ago
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It´s a joke with the title of the topic.

4 weeks ago
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nice.

4 weeks ago
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Maybe if they get a shopping cart by then. But that seems to be beyond their coding capacity.

3 weeks ago
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4 weeks ago
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No they don´t. One thing is having exclusive game from the own company like EA, Ubisoft, Valve,etc other is force other companies to be exclusive to that platform for a year

4 weeks ago
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Forcing? They pay stupid amount of money for exclusivity deals.

4 weeks ago
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Fortnite money mind you. Even without exclusives the better cut makes it attractive for the devs and publishers to go on that platform.
Also even first party EA had come back to Steam after their own plataform did not quiet hit by itself (but is easier to make more money appealing to a bigger audience...so in classic EA fashion, the choice that makes them the most money).

4 weeks ago
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Yes, Fortnite is their main source of income, why is this such an issue with people? It could be literally any other game or service, but it just happens to be Fortnite....

4 weeks ago
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Its not becuase is Fortnite, its because is one of the most profiteable games atm, Epic gets so much money they can "throw it away" in whatever fashion they like, and the one they choose is: "Steam is a monopoly for gaming; there should be NO monopoly; btw we gonna pay exclusives on our platform; totally not a monopoly". Epic proves again and again their hypocrit stand. Like with Apple, Epic broke their contract intentionally, tryign to save customers money to look as good guy while NOT decreasing their profits at all on said platform.

Ofcourse I wont negate you Steam does make money with Dota and CS:GO and thats without consider their cut from the Steam Market, but they do not sign exclusives. You would expect a "monopoly" to do so.

4 weeks ago
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To be frank, the exclusivity is always a one-year contract, acting as a lure to get people to buy on their platform first, before it is released in the wild. The same thing happened with every larger game for over a decade, it was just Microsoft or Sony (or, in some very rare cases, Nintendo) doing the same deal for their console, before the ports arrived.
As for the Apple one, both companies are equally faulty. Apple for building a fenced-off monopoly system where it dictates how much money it gets for the work of others, and Epic for purposefully baiting a contract breach and using it as an excuse to go to court. However, what Sweeny says about Apple is 100% correct, despite he himself also being motivated by greed instead of general altruism.

4 weeks ago
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It's a better cut because it's a barebone store. Not even talking about the cart, but forums, screenshots, reviews, etc. So users prefer to flock to steam. As you said, it's a publisher's store more than a user's store.

4 weeks ago
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I hold myself from menttion this, as I have not used Epic myself to verify if they had delivered on the "promised" functions already or not. Altho reivews should not even be there as thats one of their "selling points" for publishers to use the platform...imagine saying your store is better because the users cant express an opinion or use forums to solve issues...but just like happend on console games, they DO come to Steam Forums seeking help...

4 weeks ago
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+1, many, many devs choose not to bother with anything non Steam, the very same way other devs choose to publish only on Epic. Even though they don't call it "exclusive", it's pretty much the same.

4 weeks ago
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Buying the exclusivity publish rights for 1 year: not okay.
Buying the developers company to keep their current and future games exclusive forever: totally acceptable, I'll give them my money.

4 weeks ago
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I think only exclusive games on Steam are Valve's games which is understandable. It would've been nice if they released Valve games on GOG though.

4 weeks ago
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Gaben secretly pays to sellout devs to make them exclusive on Steam

4 weeks ago
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ok, and proof?

4 weeks ago
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blackpilled n based. you've singlehandedly wombo-combo'd all of Epic.

4 weeks ago
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4 weeks ago
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Same for me

4 weeks ago
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And the freebies they've been giving have flagged a little in appeal of late. Most of them have been bundled already.
Who knew that bribing people with gifts and devs with money was not a sustainable market strategy? Everyone I guess.

4 weeks ago
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Isn't Epic paying to the game developer for every game they offer for free?
By activating it on your Epic account you can support the developer, even if you don't intend to play the actual game.

3 weeks ago
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I'm not particularly fond of their client, but already have a few great games from epic, that i played.
Also i have no ties to steam. Both are profit oriented companies, so the one gets my money that gives it to me cheaper.
If the price is equal, i have other factors to weigh in, but there is definitely one factor on epic's side: they have already saved me lots of money, why shouldn't i give back to them?

4 weeks ago
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My exact thinking. Subnautica was one of their earlier freebies and I utterly adored that. I bought the 2nd one for $10 with the various discounts and vouchers. Have also bought Metro Exodus, Far Cry 5, and Satisfactory there, cheaper (in some cases WAY cheaper) than elsewhere.

I don't owe steam any loyalty. They've long since turned to shit. That's what happens though. Startup, innovation, establish, fortify, monopolise, profiteer.

Many of the freebies I'll never play, but why would I care? I'm sure the dev of those games gets some money for each person that "buys" it for $0, so by refusing to accept free games from Epic you're not hurting Epic, at most you're hurting the devs.

4 weeks ago
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Yes, EGS pays for each copy of the game received during the "giveaway" (?), and somewhere I read that this the full price (well, minus EGS commission - 12%).

And as for the "exclusivity" of games, they do not force anyone, since the developers/publishers themselves take the money, and they themselves agree to exclusivity.

It's funny to read the comments of the EGS haters, who say that EGS has not been able to make a basket for the third year. When, as in Steam itself, the client's design update had to wait a year and a half. And I don't think that when Steam came out, it immediately had a basket, and a section with discussions, wishlist, and a workshop with mods, and user profiles, and in short, everything that is now...

The only advantages of steam are: Steam Wallet (because this is not real money, which can be easily obtained from the sale of items from games, maps, and other things, and buy games with them). And the second plus - rare versions of games (regional), which are not available in other regions, and which you can not buy in Russia, for example (for example, 4, 5 and 6 parts of Chinese Paladin, not published anywhere but in China).

In 2-3 years, EGS may well become a full-fledged competitor to Steam.

P.S. If anything, I'm a GOG fan, this is my favorite store!)

P.P.S. I apologize for the mistakes, I do not know English well.

4 weeks ago
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It's funny to read the comments of the EGS haters, who say that EGS has not been able to make a basket for the third year. When, as in Steam itself, the client's design update had to wait a year and a half.

Calling people "haters" for expecting a simple QOL feature that every online mom& pop shoppe has had for over a decade is a cop-out.

"It's okay for EGS to lack what Valve didn't have 15 years ago" isn't a valid argument these days.

4 weeks ago
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This guy's gone through the thread and blacklisted anyone who refuses to hate on Epic. Class act.

4 weeks ago
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Who, me? I haven't ever blacklisted anyone for their opinion on EGS. Why would I do that, when I don't "hate" it myself?

4 weeks ago
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I haven't posted anything in weeks, post in this thread, and I'm blacklisted by a new person who turns out to be you. /shrug

4 weeks ago
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It's not new.
I blacklisted you on May 16, 2019, at 9:39am.

How about asking before making baseless accusations next time?

View attached image.
4 weeks ago
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Ah an interesting coincidence then. My apologies.

Two new ones today.
Blacklist blacklist blacklist.
I know talking about it brings more.
Blacklist blacklist blacklist.
Got no actual argument? Blacklist.

View attached image.
4 weeks ago
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What would you do with your purchased games when EGS closes its pitiful launcher due to unprofitability?

4 weeks ago
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Not sure if you trying to look dumb or not. but wtf the only advantages to steam is only 2 things for you??? Steam market, remote play, broadcast, workshop, forums, steam groups, curators, artwork, steam cards, steam Inventory, custom profiles, steam events, steam awards, SteamVR and lots more. Lets not Forget Steam reviews something epic wants to ignore

4 weeks ago
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Listing the Steam market as an advantage is hilarious.
The Steam market is the reason many countries are now classifying several games as gambling aimed at children. The Steam market was created to serve as an in-house platform so Valve gets a cut every time someone tries to sell an item they got from their lootboxes. Oh, also, let us not forget that the thing most people hate Epic for, the Fortnite money, is based on the same lootbox system Valve made in the first place.
Also, do you know what the Steam market was used for and is still used today, just not as much? Money laundering and illegal betting operations.

This is why I am literally laughing loud whenever someone lists the Steam market as a good thing. It is where this entire current lootbox crisis came from. People were shocked to hear when an EA employee was selling rare FIFA cards for over 1000 USD/card, when it is not uncommon on Steam to ask over 5000 USD for a CS:GO texture file. And they say FIFA and NBA are the worst lootbox places…

Admittedly, from your list, I agree with the forum and the Steam profiles. I cannot agree with the broadcasting (it can encode and stream videos, but it is so barebones and janky, even Facebook gaming or YouTube streaming is more viable), the workshop (it is more restrictive and works worse than mod managers from the late 90s; there is a reason so few games use it or also rely on an external mod management system regardless), the curators (so far all large curator groups turned out to be a large-scale scam), the Steam cards (pointless money waste that just lines Valve's pockets instead of the developers, and this comes from a level 211 user, mind you), and the inventory (see my comment about the store in general).

4 weeks ago*
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Love how you just point the negatives of all the good things that steam release because you dont care how others people use then. Keep living like. Also good job mixing lootboxes with random drops for free for a lot of games that you can sell...

3 weeks ago
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Yeah, many of these things aren’t as good as other options, but are way more convenient, which I feel is kinda the main point of Steam. You could have 1000 DRM-free games, a dozen different programs to assist in streaming, downloading/managing mods, etc. as well as a handful of blogs or websites bookmarked and have better functionality, but I really can’t imagine anyone saying that’s “better” than having everything accessible from the same place at the cost of some quality...

As for the marketplace, I guess buildings are pretty bad since there are alleyways between them and tons of bad things can happen in alleyways?

3 weeks ago
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I'm not particularly fond of their client, but already have a few great games from epic, that i played.
Also i have no ties to steam. Both are profit oriented companies, so the one gets my money that gives it to me cheaper.

I completely agree with this .The one exception for me is when a game is modable, then I pick Steam over EGS because of Workshop.

4 weeks ago
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Oh, I also bought Far Cry 5 Gold + New Down on winter sale (with a coupon), and then a few more games (two of which are for full price). The EGS strategy is quite justified (at least, they attracted me with a weekly freebie, as well as "possibly" thousands of other users, who also buy games).

The same discount coupons. In my region (RU), coupons from EGS are much more profitable than buying games on sales on Steam (even if there are coupons that you can get for points).

P.S. I apologize for the mistakes, I do not know English well! ^_^

4 weeks ago
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What do you usually do when a stranger offers you a free candy?

4 weeks ago
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Except free games Epic hasn't much going for them.

4 weeks ago
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if any1 expects them to be profitable in 1-2 years> ask yourself, what they need do to turn it up in these 2 years?:)
if it will be profitable ever in about 2025 at least, if ever if not closed already ;)

4 weeks ago
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Epic expect their millions of fortnite kids and freeloaders may start buying expensive games in their store. But I really doubt it.

4 weeks ago
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Yeah, they’ve been trying to give away games that Steam users already own so they feel like they can switch over without losing all their games, but they don’t realize that it’d probably be a better idea to actually give them a reason to switch, haha.

I guess they haven’t realized that buying a year (or more) of exclusivity tends to frustrate people, but maybe if they ever offered any of those free, even lesser-known ones, people might actually start using their sad little launcher a bit more...

I don’t really know, though. I have been tempted to download the launcher a few times for things like Into the Breach and Dauntless, but haven’t yet.

3 weeks ago
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Profitable?

It really is just question of how little they can spend and still sell something...

4 weeks ago
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As long Fortnite makes the big bucks, Epic gonna spend it all on exclusives to "convince" people to use their platform; they might keep getting more customers or (free players at least with the free games that still cost Epic).

I did play Rocket League before the change, at least the launcher is not enforced (maybe only for now) but the fact they demand to make an account (even if a dummy one), artificially boost their numbers to say how "good of a platform Epic Store as it keeps growing on users". If this requirment is TRULY required for crosspartys, the option would ONLY be enforced if you were to enable this option..but no, by default it DEMANDS you to make one, even to just play offline....I cant get over that.

4 weeks ago
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They are obviously targeting younger gamers who play Fortnite or people who just got into videogames. Take yourself back to when you first started playing games. I'm sure you didn't care who made the games, let alone who was selling it. Now imagine one of the major gaming platforms was giving you one or two free games every week. I know which platform I would end up using.

They are clearly less concerned with us "older" gamers who are already married to Steam.

It's a long term plan and eventually it will pay off.

4 weeks ago
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+1
If they are used to open epic every week to claim freebies, it will be a habit in long term.

4 weeks ago
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why people who claims freebies and play only fortnite will spend single cent later?
if u get free games why u need to spend mooney

4 weeks ago
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Because they will stop giving games for free at some point and those school kids will be working then and can afford to buy (more) games.

4 weeks ago
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For now, they can just use mummy or daddy's credit card ;)

4 weeks ago
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So their strategy is to wait for 12 year olds to get a job and spend all their cash on Epic? It's a very very long term strategy.

4 weeks ago
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I know I picked "school kids" myself, but not only 12 year olds temporarily lack money.

4 weeks ago
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it's as Myrsan said. these younger people, who have no money atm, will eventually grow up and able to earn money. since they are used to open epic every week (and play fortnite on epic if you want to add that), they will be more likely spend their money on epic. epic's target demographic for the freebies aren't for older people. if these people are also enticed to epic due to this, it's just a plus.

this is also one of the reasons why people prefer windows over linux even though they are not using it for gaming - they are not comfortable and/or familiar enough with linux to use it themselves, despite the fact that both operates similarly if you just use it for everyday tasks.

4 weeks ago
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these younger people, who have no money atm, will eventually grow up and able to earn money

Waiting for teenagers to finish school, go to college and get a job to become Epic locked customers sound like a long long long game, don't you think?

4 weeks ago
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Yeah, agreed. I'm sure they have short term plan as well. I heard that regional pricing for some games turn out to be cheaper in epic compared to steam, so there's that. Heck, i didn't even know they implement regional pricing before i heard this.

Tbh, i'm not sure if epic can be profitable in 2 years, but if they keep the freebies long enough, they will eventually get some profit from the younger gamers later on.

4 weeks ago
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I am not sure this will work for them as I see many young people which don't value anything. They are accustomed to receive things for free or for so low cash that they are quick to throw it away, be it game or phone or anything else. I see it on daily basis how they speak about things... it's quite sad. Don't see them changing and starting to pay for it in the near future.
Edit: by paying in the future I mean some significant cash, not buying in sale for 90%

4 weeks ago*
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If there are no quality games that are offered as a freebies, they will seek for it once they got used to it. It's kinda like how you can't use a regular mouse once you use a gaming mouse. And yes, i'm saying that epic will eventually stop the freebies.

I'm in no position to say how young people behaves, but hopefully they will change that attitude if that really is happening. Not for epic, of course. That just doesn't seem to be the right way to appreciate things.

4 weeks ago
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I'm not sure they have any plan at all. I suspect their 'plan' relied fairly heavily on Valve feeling so hurt and ashamed that they just gave up and closed down.
Remember that when discussing Epic, we are talking about Tim Sweeney. The man who, way back when, swore that once his new engine was out it would end all quake engine games, forever, and produce the best games ever. And then, despite the game being hammered for the broken multiplayer, which he'd pushed as one of it's top features, he claimed to have revolutionised the multiplayer FPS world. It was nominated for 'Action Game of the Year' by the AIAS, and Tim crowed about that too. Half Life came out a few months later, based on a modified Quake engine (later called Gold Source, or GoldSrc), and surpassed Unreal's sales rate - and beat Unreal for the 'Action Game of the Year' award. It also took "Computer Game of the Year", along with 4 other nominations.
He also claimed that Unity would never last, because he was going to ensure that it didn't.
Sweeney has made many grandiose (and often quite insane) claims and statements of intent over the years, but I'm not really sure I'd ever accuse him of having an actual /plan/ as such. Ideas, schemes, fever dreams, and twisted revenge fantasies, sure - but not plans.
As far as I can tell, EGS is Sweeney's latest 'statement of intent' - he decided to kill Steam, and has committed to it as fully and successfully as he did to killing the Quake, Source, and Unity engines, and 'revolutionising story-based FPS games' with Unreal (which had an entirely derivative story).

4 weeks ago
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I admit that i'm not familiar with tim sweeney and his shenaningans, but thinking of an idea isn't his job. As a ceo, his job is to exactly do as you said: vision where the company is going. Thinking of ideas in the smaller scale to reach his vision is the job of his employees, and if they don't have any ideas as you said, it's either that the company has no product managers or they are not competent enough for the job. There's bound to be some ideas, but whether the implementation is good enough or not, that's for us to decide.

4 weeks ago
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Exactly :)

4 weeks ago
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How do you figure claiming freebies as a habit will make EGS profitable by 2023?

4 weeks ago
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by claiming the freebies, they are used to open epic. and since epic is targeting young people, which have no money to spend for games, chances are that they will also play these freebies, thus installing their launcher. they will eventually get used to use the launcher by the time they grow up (and able to buy the games themselves).

this is actually is a common strategy for startups. first, you burn money to increase visibility, and by the time people are recognizing your service, you make people to get used to it. some people will eventually stick around. i'm not sure if they can last enough until this happen, but if they do, they will gain some profit eventually.

i admit that they also need to add more features to their service though.

4 weeks ago
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I'm 40 and very much in favor of Epic. And I never played Fortnite. :/

4 weeks ago
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Shouldn't heretics like you get banished to EpicGifts? :P

4 weeks ago
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Then you must be young at heart ;) I'm 35 and I have nothing against Epic either. In fact, I'd say the average gamer doesn't care either way. There is generally an anti-epic bias on this website. The name and purpose of this site probably has something to do with it :)

4 weeks ago
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You young puppies... :P

I don't get the whole Epic bashing. It is like the age-old Microsoft vs. Apple argument. I used both in the good old days when you "had to" use Macs for graphic design. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages, but it is stupid to claim one is superior and the other basically is the love-child of Satan and Hitler.

I am pretty sure Epic are on a good path to acquire a sound player base. And players will not play on Steam or Epic exclusively, they will choose whichever platform suits them best for any given occasion. That's the free market.

(Also I adore comments about the vileness of companies like Steam, Epic, EA, etc. who do what's best for them economically and focus on maximising their profits ... these evil bastards! What are they? Profit-oriented companies??? Oh ... wait...)

4 weeks ago
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The problem there is that, aside from the freebies, Epic is wholly inferior to Steam. The only things you can do on Epic that you can't do on Steam are buying Epic exclusives or playing the freebies.

4 weeks ago
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It is all a matter of perspective. You may see it as inferior, others can't be bothered. For example, I don't need a forum or all the other extras - I do like some of the experience offered by Steam, but some I could gladly do without.

And all said and done, if the price is right and the game developers get a better cut than on Steam, I would prefer Epic (not as much as I prefer GOG, though :P ).

4 weeks ago
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Epic will improve. The only thing that makes steam superior to Epic is the community market.

4 weeks ago
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Just give it a time (until 2023 maybe) - New York wasn't build in a one day too

4 weeks ago
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There's a difference between trying to make a profit, and having profit be your sole objective no matter what.

4 weeks ago
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Yes. This is a point that's worth mentioning. There are definitely things that developers, publishers and video game companies do that are anti-consumerist, yet still profitable. Though as consumers, we can (and do) keep the corporate greed in check to some extent, by speaking up and not tolerating poor treatment and shady business practices. I also don't yet have reason to believe Epic care less about their consumers or have worse morals/ethics than Valve. I believe big companies like that are almost always motivated by $$$ first and foremost and I accept that it's a greedy world, though I'd prefer it to be less so.

Alas, as humans, we are usually not that capable of thinking objectively, separating ourselves from our feelings and biases, while acknowledging that many things are complex. So we draw wrong conclusions and voice misplaced or overly one-sided anger and resentment. I think most people (me included) see Steam as an overall better launcher than Epic, plus Steam has been around for a long time and we're accustomed to it and to having it as our main or only launcher. We're biased towards the things we're accustomed to and care about. It's much easier to criticize something we don't like nor care about than the opposite.

So it makes sense that Epic is being bashed so much for the 3rd party exclusivity deals, while others, like Sony, mostly get away with it (as pointed out by Khelekdor and KillingArts below). Whether you believe Valve are "good" or "bad," they don't NEED 3rd party exclusivity deals - they've had by far the biggest PC games marketplace & launcher for a long time. Just because they aren't making 3rd party exclusivity deals doesn't mean they would under no circumstance do so. Valve almost has a monopoly on PC gaming and a lot of the games are exclusively on Steam, because of the lack of competition. It's hard to establish competition when the giant is so big. Competition is good! Let's not kid ourselves that this is ALL about Epic's 3rd party exclusivity deals. If it were Valve doing it, people wouldn't care as much, because we like Valve/Steam and prefer to have a limited amount of launchers and consequently fail to realize that we're promoting a Steam monopoly. No, it's more about convenience. We find it inconvenient to use several launchers - which used to be a popular argument, but I guess people realized it wasn't a very strong one..? Lastly, it's becoming increasingly hard for indie developers to make it on Steam because of the ridiculous amount of games and no quality control, so I say let other companies compete and offer more opportunities for the developers and, in turn, the gamers too! Lastly lastly, before anyone assumes I'm defending 3rd party exclusivity - I'm not. I don't think it's a good practice, but considering the circumstances, I don't care that much and I don't think it warrants boycotting.

4 weeks ago
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[Insert Shia Labeouf clapping GIF]

4 weeks ago
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Indeed. But that line can be very thin and hard to distinguish from outside. Things are rarely black and white (Steam good, Epic bad). And no, I don't intend to defend EA or any giant corporation. I just find it funny when it is evil in some corporations, and okay in others - depending on which services someone uses. :P

Personally, I try to support local (and thus smaller) business with a smaller environmental footprint instead of big chains. In the case of games I often buy the games directly from the devs for full price if I really feel I will like the product. It is about personal choice (and of course this depends on everyone's personal situation).

4 weeks ago
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Oh God, there are still anti-Mac idiots out there. I am a graphic designer too, and I still use macs because it's what I am used to. I've had to block a couple of people on Steam who started targeting me because I complained about the mac version of a game in it's forum. Hahaha! This one guy was accusing me of buying a mac to prove to everyone how wealthy and exclusive I am. I'm like... "really? I wish I was wealthy." XD. I see the benefits of both types of computer, but I am a creature of habit.

Takes all sorts to make a world. =)

4 weeks ago
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Honestly it's about time that Steam faced some competition. Ultimately, it will be good for consumers. The 190+ free games that I have on Epic are pretty good evidence of that :)

And yes, companies will be companies one way or another. I guess the issue is when people engage with their products in an unhealthy way. Like, we obviously know better than to spend our life savings on FIFA micro-transactions. Younger people, not so much. Then you can get into the questions about how much responsibility EA has.

4 weeks ago
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I find it very funny that most of us, as you called it, "older" gamers, seem to have forgotten the times when people were like "Wait, this boxed game requires Steam to play? NO BUY! Screw DRM!"
I was kinda like them too but when 99% boxed games were like this it was hard not to let go. But now thankfully we have GOG :) Although if Epic serves me a good deal, I'll go with them too from time to time.

4 weeks ago
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Very true :D

And GOG is awesome. I particularly like their launcher GOG Galaxy. Nice to have all my games in one place!

4 weeks ago
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This!

If I started with a collection of games on Epic, that's where I'd be playing my games now. It's just the way it goes. Young people who are not making their own money atm will be delighted with the freebies, build up a library, and will probably use Epic as their default PC gaming store when they do start making money because they have the library there already.

I really don't think they are trying to appeal to people like me. I have most of the games already that I wanted to play, except Subnautica and a couple others that I grabbed, and was happy to get. I'm not loyal to Steam, it's just that the majority of my games are there.

4 weeks ago
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Yeah, it's the same for me. It would be silly to be loyal to a gaming company who doesn't really care about you. I've picked up all of the Epic freebies because free is free! Granted, I won't play most of them but there are some awesome games in there.

4 weeks ago
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Epic expect their millions of fortnite kids and freeloaders may start buying expensive games in their store - but it's a very long-term strategy barely becoming profitable in 2023

4 weeks ago
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The freeloaders will never buy their games and I am sure that they know that. Again, the freeloaders (aka most people on SG who probably already have those games on Steam) are not their target audience. If you have a massive Steam library, there's no way you'll switch to Epic.

By 2023, a lot of the teens/early 20s who started collecting the freebies will have graduated school/college and will be making money. They're betting on that. It's not a bad strategy, to be fair. Many of those will have grown out of Fortnite, but with many other games to play, they might stick around since they've already been using the launcher. Look how Steam users are reluctant to switch to other launchers, so imagine being one of those Fortnite addicts. Whether it works in the end, remains to be seen.

3 weeks ago*
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I bet that being a Steam fan != being a EGS fan. Too different categories

3 weeks ago
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Am I the only one who thinks their exclusivity rules are pretty mild? One year is nothing compared to Sony's exclusives that we await for 10-15 years or Nintendo exclusives that we await for 30+ year to be released on PC. And buying another console is much more expensive than installing another launcher.

So I think Epic needs to make their games exclusive for 2 or 3 years to become profitable and to stay on the market. After all, exclusives are always the main thing why players choose this or that platform.

4 weeks ago
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I am never in favor of exclusivity. But I agree that Epic exclusivity is extremely mild to actual hardware exclusivity, and it's not nearly as big a deal as what Sony is doing (yet nobody ever complains about Sony here). And I understand why they are doing it. Because otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance against Steam (which started its success by making games like Half Life 2 exclusive, by the way).

4 weeks ago
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Indeed. There's a lot of bandwagoning going on in this Steam vs Epic war. I don't like exclusivity either, but people are exaggerating and condoning Epic while failing to see the bigger picture. Not like Valve is some kind of angel. Money is what drives the business.

4 weeks ago
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And I understand why they are doing it. Because otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance against Steam (which started its success by making games like Half Life 2 exclusive, by the way).

HL2 is their own game, so it would be forgiven if they did that. But something they also did, what people hate Epic for doing that but forget that Steam did the same: Exclusivity deals of third-party games. And those lasted longer than a mere year. I'm pretty sure the majority of games released on Steam between 2004 and 2010 are still only available on Steam (on PC).

4 weeks ago
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It was their own game, yes. And forgiving something like that is the narrative people follow today when talking about Epic. But they didn't do that before. People were pissed at EA for making Origin and for Ubisoft for making UPlay. And not only because of actual problems with the clients, but for not releasing on Steam as they used to. This "no steam no buy" mentality is nothing new, and I strongly believe it would exist even without actual arguments against client XY. With HL2 it was a little different, though, because we were not yet used to launcher software. I remember people were outraged that Valve tried to force them into installing Steam, and that there was no steamless version of the game. Being forced to make an account with my mail address just to play a game? What madness is that?! ^^ It's funny that people seem to have forgotten how negative many reactions to Steam were when it was new. Don't know about actual exclusivity deals with 3rd party games, though. People always tell me that never happened with Valve. :/

4 weeks ago
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You're comparing them to companies that have their own consoles, this is very different since they're bound to specific hardware that they're selling. For console companies they have a model of providing the hardware at a cheap price and then require the games to later make up that loss. They bind their customers to that hardware and software-ecosystem with exclusivity.

4 weeks ago
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And with that they actively prevent other players from getting access to that game. Latest (and not the first!) example: Deathloop. Sony pays a non-Sony studio to not release on XBox for a year. And that is hard exclusivity that XBox players can't get around by merely installing another launcher like with Epic on PC. They just can't play the damn thing. To me this seems way more restrictive, yet Sony never really gets criticised for it, while Epic's soft exclusivity somehow is the most evil thing in the business. ^^

4 weeks ago
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Am I the only one who thinks their exclusivity rules are pretty mild?

I never once played a game less than a year after its release so I know what you mean. However there are a lot of people who are pissed they can't play the latest games. Unfortunately so far it seems it's just made them more bitter and mad at Epic than it drove them into the bosom of Epic's tender embrace.
If anything, the only result I've seen so far is people review bombing studios on Steam for daring to go exclusive with Epic and denying their regular customers the lastest game.

4 weeks ago
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Somehow I think that these angry people aren't as numerous as they seem to be, more like a vocal minority. If a game is good enough, who cares what launcher it uses? Gamers will spend x1000 more time in the game that in the launcher. And it's not like they need to pay for it like for a console

4 weeks ago
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2023? doubt, they need to spend a lot on exclusives and free games to attract users and it is clear exclusives dont give the playerbase they expected, most gamers got used to wait one year instead and now many think about the epic exclusive as "they will have the money to fix the bugs, build up content and then i can buy a nonalpha game on steam". Great example is Hades, could have been epic exclusive but one year later they sold significantly more copy on steam than on epic store.

About the question:
It could be big, but there could be always a new hyped PVP game so they cant afford more exclusives and free games. There could be always a new revolutionary game engine and so no UE incomes... If those happenes before Epic store gets profitable then it will close... or when suddenly VR will be a common thing.
But Epic also selecting the wrong games for exclusives, i still never heard that any epic exclusive game became insane hit, while steam indie games doing that regularly like Valheim.

4 weeks ago*
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Yeah I agree that they haven't selected the best games for exclusives. They have tried to grab big AAA titles like Hitman 3 and Assassins creed, but the reality is a lot of PC gamers are already drowning in backlog and are patient to wait to get the full game in a 'gold' edition on sale at a later date.
And then they have picked the wrong indie titles, with most of the 'hype' games still being on steam, like Fall guys as well. I think untitled goose game was about the closest they had when lots of streamers were playing it at launch. Hades was also a good game, but it was in early access and it was out on steam by the time it actually launched and topped the charts there for a good while.

4 weeks ago
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Doesn't matter if it gets profitable by 2023 or 2041. Their exclusivity money is still pocket change for them.

4 weeks ago
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I might buy games there when they have all the features we want and since Steam has been established for years, there are quite a few.
Better community system, reviews/ ratings, achievements (I think only a few games have them), workshop.
Not only that but they have to innovate a bit more.....what I do like about the store is more for devs than for consumers, the fact that if you develop on Unreal Engine you have to pay less engine fees.
I am not opposed to EGS but there is nothing that makes me want to buy games there.

4 weeks ago
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Really hope the store is just dead by 2023. or 2022.

4 weeks ago
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+100500

4 weeks ago
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I will not spend there

4 weeks ago
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I have so many games on Epic, and most of them are great. But the only one I paid for what the online mode of RDR2 for 1$ on humble bundle so I wouldn't call myself a customer. I think I missed one freebie last christmas.

4 weeks ago
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I'm surprised it's not more. As long as Fortnite coughs up enough money they'll keep it up, but I doubt Epic will be able (and willing) to lose that much money for much longer. Maybe Kingdom Hearts is big enough to push them into profitable territory, so who knows.

4 weeks ago
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As long as Fortnite coughs up enough money they'll keep it up

How long can they last on Fortnite though? Plus Fornite also costs money. If they want to keep players playing and spending, they have to update, expand etc. Add that to the bribes they pay devs and studios, and all the freebies, plus store running costs, that's a lot to put on just one game.

What's the longest a game like that has printed its own money?

4 weeks ago
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If they were able to keep the game interesting, in the same way that Valve did with her cash grabs: CSGO, DOTA2, TF2. They can keep printing their own money. I can totally imagine scenarios where Fortnite is profitable in 2023+

But it is still a difficult bet, they have the prospect of making a profit in 2023 with the current scenario, several things may change, Valve may start to act aggressively, other stores may appear, etc.

4 weeks ago
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LoL is still a thing. I really don't know how long Fortnite will print money for Epic, but my guess would be for a bit longer still.

4 weeks ago
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ww3 expected by 2022.
global economic collapse expected by 2023
nuclear winter expected by 2025

4 weeks ago
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Fortnite flop...when?

4 weeks ago
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They will be only because are taking what Steam forgot: "The Epic Games Store is a curated digital storefront for PC and Mac, designed with both players and creators in mind. It's focused on providing great games for gamers" (From their FAQ, the bold is mine). Steam lost their way and I'm not talking about the Indies, there are great indies but for nobody is a secret that the store is full of bad games and product that doesn't even come close to what a game should be, greed breaks the sack and now the Steam Store is really broken

4 weeks ago
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I agree, epic games has quality control

4 weeks ago
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But Steam has reviews, you can learn a lot on games from reviews

4 weeks ago
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Sometimes the reviews works and all must been said, Steam make a good effort for avoid the abuse of the system, but with more of 50K games, the store is a mess, which percentage of these are good games? Epic Store makes a control of their catalogue and I really hope that continues in this way.

4 weeks ago
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But the curation is not for everyone. Epic doesn't offer games that I am interested in and I am pretty happy about Steam offering them. Of course there is a lot of games on Steam and some of them I totally ignore but it's the same way as with bookstore for example, I don't read books about spirituality and so, but it doesn't mean that there are not readers interested in it.
Everyone will find what they like. :)

4 weeks ago
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You have a point but my statement is not about the genres or contents of the games but the quality of these, of course have a open door to many kinds of games is a good thing for the industry, the players and the videogames story in general, some Indie developers have create great games with simplicity and quality, but right now in the Steam store these developers are hidden under the flood of assets flips games and fake games... for that I believe in the importance of a curated store front, and this is not about a censorship or something like that I just a minimal quality control

4 weeks ago
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The reality of a "curated digital storefront" is that lots of people will be looking for games they want but Epic doesn't. And guess where they'll look for those games? And guess which will become their preferred platform because that's where those games are?

4 weeks ago
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no one cares about epic....

4 weeks ago
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I have a feeling that Epic can afford to hang on until it makes money on its game store. Right now, it is also making money licensing its Unreal Engine to film-making companies (e.g. to make The Mandalorian - the actors even said it was like being immersed in a videogame), as well as Fortnite.

4 weeks ago
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The Unreal Engine is not a reference in film making so it's not like they're making a bundle on licensing. It's just one of many many and most likely not the biggest one by far.

4 weeks ago
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I am in my late 40s. I've played exactly 2 sessions of Fortnite.

Epic is going after younger gamers, an emerging demographic. I use Steam primarily because I picked it up in 2009, so I'm used to it and I have a lot of games there. By 2023, Epic will have a customer base of gamers whose first gaming client was Epic, they're used to it, and they have a bunch of games on it. Epic will pick up customers like Steam did 10-15 years ago.

And Epic doesn't have to beat Steam into bankruptcy to win here. They just need to secure a large enough segment of the market to be stable. To achieve longevity. Even GOG has done that.

Personally, I like Epic. Simple, uncluttered. And curated. To me, less is more. Steam has a lot of junk I'd rather turn off or hide. And curation is a big big deal. Steam has over 50K games. I do a lot of sorting over at Steam. Epic offers me a quicker cleaner shopping experience.

I fully expect to continue to shop at Steam (and GOG, and everywhere else). I'm a budget shopper. So I have 6 or more clients installed on my PC. But lately I spend more and more of my time on Epic. And less and less on Steam.

4 weeks ago
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Yep. This is how I feel about things as well.

4 weeks ago
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By 2023, Epic will have a customer base of gamers whose first gaming client was Epic

In 2 years? How old are those gamers? 14? How much money will they have to spend in 2 years?
And that's not counting all the other gaming venues emerging right now like Stadia, Switch etc. and everything that can happen to the gaming industry in 2 years with streaming. Those kids will be like the kids you're telling about DVD now. "Why would you buy or rent movies when you have Netflix?"

4 weeks ago
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I think the real question might be, "how much are their parents spending on it?"

4 weeks ago
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The first Epic Games Store freebie was Subnautica in Dec of 2018. By Dec of 2023, that's 5 years.

A customer who was 14 and playing Fortnite when they got Subnautica for free will be 19 at Christmas of 2023.

4 weeks ago
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A customer who was 14 and playing Fortnite when they got Subnautica for free will be 19 at Christmas of 2023.

And they all have jobs at 19? Best case scenario for Epic: instead of needing their parents money for college, they dropped out of high school and are now making a bundle... in menial jobs.

4 weeks ago
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There will be plenty of parents giving their kids money for video games. Even if it's not as much as an adult customer, Epic's young customer base will still provide value before they get jobs.

4 weeks ago
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I'm really not sure how seriously to take you at this point.
Do you not know that 19 year olds all play video games? Every college dorm room has kids playing video games? They also buy clothes, Doritos, skateboards...
Who cares if the money comes from their parents or a job or a trust fund or a college loan?
19 year olds have money and they buy video games.

4 weeks ago
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I had a job when I was 16. I literally used that money to buy a car, and buy video games. Mostly.

4 weeks ago
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No, in my mind that EGS is worst shop (sorry for these people, who love this launcher)

4 weeks ago
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As someone who owns zero shares in Valve or Epic, I don't really worry about where my games are. I wouldn't be shocked if Epic store was profitable more quickly. Comparatively few people actually boycott Epic like they claim, and their sales vouchers are always a nice little push towards buying games on their store. Valve/Epic/GOG. All are different sides of the same weird three sided coin.

4 weeks ago
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Comparatively few people actually boycott Epic like they claim

There's really no way of knowing that.

I wouldn't be shocked if Epic store was profitable more quickly.

They won't if they keep paying studios not to sell games on their store

4 weeks ago
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"Paying studios not to sell games on their store."
The exclusivity deals they cut are advances. They negotiate an expected number of copies sold, then pay the stuidio that much money up front. The risk is in the fact that its a guarentee - if the game sells less than expected, Epic is out the difference, but only the difference. But if the game sells well, Epic hasn't lost any money at all.

4 weeks ago
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It just shows that 88/12 is unsustainable even with a store that lacks all the basic features. Once fortnite will stop printing money they will close the EGS in the blink of an eye.

4 weeks ago
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What's unsustainable is actually paying developers to not sell their game on other platforms, and the weekly freebies. Those are just ways to kick-start the platform and will most likely go away when they have a large enough user base. (They might still do the exclusive thing though, the worst part of it, since it's mostly a cash advance for publishers and it doesn't actually cost them anything in the end if the game sells enough copies.)

3 weeks ago
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Their user base could be 10 times as larger as it is now and it won't make their store profitable. The strategy of Tim with the freebies and timed exlusives is an epic failure. Freebies only made their user base waiting for more and timed exclusives pissed off a lot of people.
We will see if people start spending money after the freehoneymoon is over (really doubt it).

3 weeks ago*
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As others have pointed out, their primary target is most likely a younger generation who doesn't have a sizeable library on another platform. When the freebies run out, some of these users might want to start buying games and they will most likely do it on the platform where they have the most games already. For most of us, that platform is Steam, but for someone who mainly owns game on EGS they might wat to keep their games together as much as possible. (There are a number of reasons to avoid EGS, but the average gamer will probably not care about most of them.)

As you said, we'll see if their gamble paid off. As long as they keep their "exclusives" strategy I'm sincerely hoping they fail miserably as I've always seen exclusives as the cancer of the gaming world.

3 weeks ago
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I'm honestly not sure...

There needs to be some competition to Steam, both for better customer deals and for better deals for indie game developers (If i understand right Steam takes like 30% of all game sales for small devs, but less from big AAA publishers), but i'm not sure Epic will be the right competitor. I guess time will tell

4 weeks ago
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If i understand right Steam takes like 30% of all game sales for small devs, but less from big AAA publishers

They take 30% off the first 10 millions in sales, doesn't matter if you're a small dev or a big publisher. It's brought down to 25% for the next 40 millions, then to 20% for anything above that.

3 weeks ago
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