By the way, the definition of "Hentai game" is the number of inhabitants of the earth. Physically impossible.
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Discussions - Add-ons / Tools
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I know games are marked as when there is a giveaway but I was wondering if it would a good idea to remove the after the keys expire. We know humble bundle giveaways run for a specific period of time and that the keys that they give expire after 1-2 weeks.
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The keys do not always expire and there are people farming 100s or 1000s of keys. So the game should be marked as "free" forever.
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To add to Oppenh4imer's comment, [by my understanding] staff already time-limits keys to their specific promotion periods, if the promotion period ever does end. Hence, any Humble freebies that actually do firmly expire [versus just saying they do, and then hiding their visibility] will be removed from SG's free game list following their listed expiration date (keeping in mind that it can sometimes take staff as long as several months before they can get around to updating the status of any given promotion, and thus such adjustments may not be immediately implemented).
Of course, if that's a misconception on my part then, yes, definitely, the system should be adjusted to match the above.
Beyond that, staff has also made individual exceptions on specific games and changed their list status after 5~7 years, or removed games due to them "not being exploited as much as initially thought", but- understandably- those adjustments are an exception, as such practices would be too easy to exploit if staff were to extend such measures more broadly.
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I appreciate all that went into this!
There is one item that is being enforced recently related to the new guidelines that isn't in the guidelines: Posts about anyone/anything that happens to have a Steam Curator, must go under User Projects.
When people read the relevant Discussion topic descriptions when creating a new post or reading Guidelines under Advertising, it is not clear that posts about someone/something that happens to have a Steam Curator is only allowed in User Projects:
Group Recruitment
Post your Steam group, explain how it works, and let others know how they are able to join. One of the primary aspects of your group needs to be SteamGifts or gifting using our platform.
User Projects
Show us what you are working on. You could share a website you are developing, a YouTube channel you recently launched, or home renovations for your gaming / theater room. Projects do not need to be gaming related. One open discussion per project. Each discussion should have work-in-progress or a finished product or service to show our community. Be considerate to not repeatedly bump your content if the community is not engaging with your post.
I propose updating the beginning of the guideline and discussion topic summary for User Projects to this (revision in italics):
Show us what you are working on. This is where you could share about your Steam group with a Steam curator, a website you are developing,...
Curators are currently only referenced in the Comments guidelines:
Comments
This refers to comments throughout our site, such as those contained within giveaways or discussions. You are able to advertise in your comments, but only when it is both relevant and valuable to the conversation. For example, if a user is searching for a giveaway group only available to users that have not yet won a game, and you are the owner of such a group, it would be appropriate to post a link to your Steam group. Or, if a user is searching for new strategy games, and you have a Steam curator page highlighting your recommendations from that genre, you could share a link since it would be helpful to those reading.
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I actually didn't plan on allowing discussions about Steam groups and curators as "User Projects". However, I also didn't mention they're not allowed, so I can see how we arrived at this point. I'll need to think this one through a bit more before making a final decision on them and updating the guidelines.
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Does new guidelines indeed lacks the old point that giveaway creator can't add custom rules for participation, or did I just missed it? Is this implies that "by entering you agree to delete this giveaway in case of any problem" is legit requirement now?
If answer is yes - I'm going to write "by entering you agree to send me your nudes" to every giveaway
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My apologies for the necro, but it was (albeit rudely) suggested by a Senior Moderator that I post my question directly to you, and that landed me here.
Why do personal attacks, slurs, and hate speech get a shorter suspension length than things like spam, advertising, begging, and well ... pretty much everything but posting spoilers, which also earns you a two day suspension?
That seems way off to me. Personal attacks, slurs, and hate speech are always done intentionally to cause trouble/upheaval on the forums, or to troll/attack particular people or whole groups of people. In the most recent case, the Pride Month thread (it happens every year). This sort of behavior is destructive to the community and makes many people uncomfortable in what should be a reasonable and hate-free environment.
For some perspective, and given that suspensions are doubled each time a similar offense is committed (as I've been told numerous times by your support staff) --
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Obviously I agree, 2 days is far too short for something so blatantly destructive to the community. As I am fond of saying, a two day suspension is little more than a polite warning - though I really like "diaper spank."
Thanks for your input, veebles.
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Suspensions are not doubled, they are extended. And default extension is 7 days. Can't remember now if I saw somewhere moderator writing "doubled" not "extended". But as extension is part of custom length category it can be only applied by SeniorModerator(+). So if user is suspended by JuniorMod for 2nd offense and it's not reported higher up - extension can't be applied.
So if you post referral link you will get 3 days.
If you post another referral in a month you will get 10 days. 3 for next referral and 7 as extension.
If someone is suspended for inactivated wins - 5 days. Then month later they have two more inactivated wins - 5 + 5 + 7 = 17 days. It's not 5x2 + 5x2 = 20 days.
Extension length is custom, so moderator can decide if it should be 5, 7, 14 or whatever number of days.
Not arguing against idea to raise suspension length, just poking about extensions.
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Thank you for the clarification, MSKOTOR. Is there a scenario where a JuniorMod wouldn't report the repeat offender higher up so that an extension could be applied? I would think they've been trained/advised to do so? And are you saying if they don't, then the suspension would only be 2 days again?
And another question about your inactivated wins example-- is it correct that "Then [a] month later they have two more inactivated wins - 5 + 5 + 7 = 17 days" would only apply if they had the first inactivated win, got reported, then had another inactivated win and got reported again? In other words, if they just had 2 inactivated wins and then got reported, doesn't that count as a single "batch" of inactivated wins, and therefore only a 5 + 5 = 10 day suspension (assuming it wasn't a JuniorMod who didn't report the offender higher up)? I only ask because I seem to recall I've reported folks with many inactivated wins but they only got a short suspension because it hadn't been reported yet.
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As far as the extensions go, we have a mechanism to address when a lower-ranking mod cannot take action on their own, though depending on availability, we may not apply it immediately.
If someone has 5 non-activated wins and we only see it for the first time after the 5th occurred, then we'd apply no extension (i.e. 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 + 5 = 25 total days), whereas if each was caught along the way, these would be applied as
- 5
- 5 + 7
- 5 + 14
- 5 + 28
- permanent
Side note/Edit: I guess there may be confusion about "doubling" or "extending" based on this. The extension does not double the original suspension, but the extension duration does double with repeated extensions.
There would be additional feedback provided along the way explaining that future suspensions could lead to a permanent status.
The idea behind the first example is that we give the benefit of the doubt that they didn't understand the rules. Unless the infraction was particularly egregious, they get a break. On the other hand, there are cases where someone is overly excessive up front, we can and will suspend permanently. This is a bit of a judgement call for us, but it's usually a fairly obvious case when this happens.
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To just expand on Gaffi answer - ideally Junior Mods would report it to higher ups and higher ups would apply extension. But we don't live in perfect world.
New mods may not hear about this procedure and some rule breakers will "slip through". Sometimes they are reported but no one has time to follow up on that. If I have winner with 2nd "batch" of inactivated win and suspension ran out 2 weeks ago as I saw it wayyyyy too late - it would look like it's not extension but additional suspension for the same infraction. So when it's long overdue I skip it as it's support shortcoming for not doing it more swiftly. But if I'd see someone suspended 3rd time for the same thing with "missed" extension - I would not apply 7 days extension but 10 or so days.
I only ask because I seem to recall I've reported folks with many inactivated wins but they only got a short suspension because it hadn't been reported yet.
There are many reasons why suspension looks short. If they are caught first time there will be no extension. If they manage to activate some of missing wins - suspensions for those wins will end. So if someone was suspended for 5 x 5 = 25 days and activate 4 games - suspension will "drop" to 5 days.
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Thank you for the thorough response, MSKOTOR. I think it comes down to what you said-- "we don't live in perfect world," and the fact that Support has a difficult job that is thankless and unpaid. So Thank You. :) I know I've seen people with 15+ unactivated wins, but it could be one of those situations you described.
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Suspensions are not doubled, they are extended.
While it's more beside my point than anything, and despite my hesitation to derail my initial point, this does beg some discussion.
My statement was made based on what I've been told by mods in private, what I've seen mods post here on the forums (though, to be honest, not recently), and supported by my own suspension history. For transparency's sake, my last suspension 4 months ago, though overturned, was for 10 days. Obviously you can verify the latter for yourself. While my suspension history doesn't follow the "doubled" rule exactly, it's much closer than the "+7" rule. 2, 1, 5, 10. The single day suspension was for "trolling" by posting the Monty Python spam song video in the music thread, and is the only suspension that doesn't follow any rule. Jatan modified it downward due to lack of severity. No hard feelings, Jatan. It's still my favorite suspension.
Thank you for clarification of protocol. I believe it's good information for everyone to have. You're the first (and really, the only) mod to ever state that it's extended by seven days. Since I have to assume you're being forthright with me (I have no reason to doubt you), shall I also assume that not all moderators follow the same protocol, and is that something that could be addressed for uniformity in suspension length (you know how I feel about equality amongst users, and even moderators)? Or is the 7 day thing a more recent change to protocol and I simply haven't observed enough recently to notice?
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For transparency's sake, my last suspension 4 months ago, though overturned, was for 10 days. Obviously you can verify the latter for yourself. While my suspension history doesn't follow the "doubled" rule exactly, it's much closer than the "+7" rule. 2, 1, 5, 10.
As I said it's often on moderator discretion. Not everything is simple black/white situation. Even when I like those, as life in this way is simpler.
If we have user that is told to "stop trolling" and we keep suspending them month to month - it would follow standard "suspension + extension" case. They may be die-hard troll that think they are funny. And you can have only so much patience for "adults" that behave like 5 y/o and don't want to follow simple instructions.
But in case of someone lashing out on someone 4 years ago (2 day suspension applied), and then I see them loosing their temper last month - I would not personally suspend them for 2 + 7 = 9 days. It would be like 5 days with "You were already suspended for this infraction, please refrain from using such language" comment.
You also need to remember that we keep some history of behavior even when suspension is not applied. If I see someone was suspended 5 years ago and then there are some small incidents that do not warrant suspension on their own - I would hammer such individual harder than someone who had "incident" 3 or 4 years ago and no history of other wrong doings.
I think that Inappropriate behavior category is most ambiguous as it covers pretty much everything that is not covered specifically by other categories. So it would be hard to follow standardized rules here.
Since I have to assume you're being forthright with me (I have no reason to doubt you), shall I also assume that not all moderators follow the same protocol, and is that something that could be addressed for uniformity in suspension length (you know how I feel about equality amongst users, and even moderators)?
As I said above it's hard to apply this uniformly to Inappropriate behavior category. If you'd see history of suspensions of someone with multiple / inactivated wins - this "protocol" is followed in 99% of cases. When you do a lot of suspension it feels like being a robot after some time :hehe: "First game inactivated - done, Second game inactivated - done, were they suspended in the past? Yes - click button to apply default extension. Next!"
Or is the 7 day thing a more recent change to protocol and I simply haven't observed enough recently to notice?
It's been like that since I joined support. But. Inappropriate behavior category has bit different rules - see above. But Gaffi above made very good point I forgot about - suspension per type of infraction does not double, but extension per type of infraction does. So if you inactivate game 2nd time - it's 7 day extension. But if you're caught 3rd time - it's 14 days. Or perma. Depends how many games are not actiavted.
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Thanks for the detailed explanation. As I said, I was only parroting what I was told by other moderators in the past, and relating my own personal experience, along with what other users have expressed to me.
I think that Inappropriate behavior category is most ambiguous as it covers pretty much everything that is not covered specifically by other categories. So it would be hard to follow standardized rules here.
Perhaps this category would be better broken into sub-categories covering more specific incident types or perhaps a more standardized suspension format for particular offenses. I believe we can both agree that something like simple trolling (for example, my one day suspension) isn't nearly as foul and damaging as racial slurs or hate-speech, and likely doesn't belong in the same vein of infraction. One certainly merits a greater suspension than the other. Ease of implementation may be an issue, I've no idea, and that's if cg even agreed that one type of offense is worse than another.
I also understand that suspension lengths need some form of "open ended-ness" left to the moderator's discretion, to be based on the severity of the infraction, but some uniformity in the length of suspension would aid both moderators and users in better understanding the severity of their infraction, and would also avoid abuse of the system (i.e. personal bias, and resulting accusations of bias) when it comes to applying those suspensions.
But back to my point -- As things stand now, a two day suspension is a slap on the wrist for some rather heinous misdeeds, and lumping everything together can lead some people to believe that hate speech and personal attacks are a lesser offense than something like advertising or spamming. Harsher suspensions for those more severe infractions could also lead to less disruption, and users may be less likely to run afoul of the rules. YMMV.
Edit: Meh, I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be with some of what I said here, but I'm in a bit of a hurry. Apologies for the word soup.
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The point is, as far as I can take away from all of this-- is can we all agree that hate speech and the like is more severe than most cases of spam and advertising and any number of other infractions? Can't we simply take strides to eliminate this from SG via a severe initial penalty and permaban for repeat offenders? Why give so many chances? I understand there are always shades of grey and judgment calls, but I don't understand the tolerance for hate speech and other infractions. If it really is grey somehow, let them appeal, then take a closer look. Otherwise, good riddance. Just IMHO.
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The point is, as far as I can take away from all of this-- is can we all agree that hate speech and the like is more severe than most cases of spam and advertising and any number of other infractions? Can't we simply take strides to eliminate this from SG via a severe initial penalty and permaban for repeat offenders?
Yes, and yes. That is precisely what I am saying and proposing. Thank you.
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Hi, I have one question.
I believe there were cases where simple possession was banned in some countries for content related to sexual orientation, not just LGBT+++. Will the GA creators be responsible for that?
I don't have the time to read through all the rules in all the countries.
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Not your job to know all laws from all countries.
Make the GA's that you can and think they fit, i assume all on steam are in the allowed spectrum or only very few aren't.
Each User can then decide for him- or herself if the GA fit or not (to the laws, his tastes and so on).
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Hi everyone,
The new guidelines for SteamGifts are now live. It's been a long process but I want to thank everyone for their feedback along the way. Overall, I'm happy with the guidelines we were able to put together. I think they're fair and they help to clarify a number of questions the previous guidelines left to interpretation. Please take a minute to read through them when you have a moment. Thanks!
https://www.steamgifts.com/about/guidelines
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