Pirating, what should be the result?
If you like a product, you should support it with your money.
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you only know if you like it, if you played it for some time... ;)
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As long as you have less than two hours of play time. Some games are that broken or take so much fiddling to get running properly that you may have racked that up before you can even evaluate the game or how well it runs
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If you can... But if you don't buy it on Steam or on Origin you can't.
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Tell that to STEAM in early 2012, or... I forget if it was Impulse or Stardock.
I asked for a refund on Ninja Blade in early 2012 on the grounds that it was a garbage console port and barely run. What I got was a bunch of copypasted tech support advice that was neither helpful nor relevant to what I'd asked.
Of the other company, it was Sins of a Solar Empire. I'd bought their CD, redeemed their product key... found out the game was nothing like what I'd expected from the box description. Parent company wouldn't void my product key, my refund was the store's problem. Store I got the CD from has a return policy that basically states "If you have opened the box on a software product, you keep it." because piracy.
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Do you rent or buy movies or go to the cinemas, then ask for your money back if you're not 100% satisfied? Do you go to restaurants then walk out without paying the bill because of some bullshit like you didn't like the colour of the plate your food was served on? Pirates seem to have a very warped view of how the world works...
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Yes, and I also make sure to threaten them I'll sue them if they don't offer me the free meal.
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I think a movie can run without lag in cinemas, and yeah, if the food is like shit I don't pay for it at all. That's how the world works.
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But we aren't talking about whether the game (or movie) runs or not, we're talking about whether the customer likes what they got, which is entirely subjective. And yeah, if you don't pay your restaurant bill because you ordered steak and don't like the taste of beef, good luck justifying that to the judge.
Here's an idea: if you don't think it's worth the risk to buy a game because you're not sure if you'll like it or not, and the plethora of previews, reviews, trailers, screenshots, gameplay videos, let's plays, word of mouth, demos, refund policies etc etc can't help you make up your mind, how about just going without? Your idea of how the world works betrays your sense of entitlement.
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Sometimes it is about how the game runs.
And sometimes previews are unhelpful, reviews lie, trailers don't exist, screenshots are vague, gameplay videos don't exist, let's plays don't exist, demos don't exist (especially this), refund policies are designed to screw the customer, and the game generates zero word of mouth.
I think I should be able to expect that the information a developer provides about their own title is at least accurate and not misleading.
Is it entitlement if I'm angry at getting something other than what I thought I bought? If I buy a movie and find a completely different one in its case? If I go to a restaurant and make my order, and the server brings me something else that isn't prepared properly?
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You are guaranteed by consumer law that the product you bought is as advertised. Games have been pulled from Steam because of it. What pirates bitch about though, I guarantee you is 99.99% of the time bullshit, some fantasy that they thought the game would be everything in their dreams, and surprise the game didn't live up to their expectations. Or stupid shit like a gun is the wrong colour, or the MMO game they bought that had "Internet Connection Required" on the box needed an internet connection and electricity.
Sorry but this "wrong movie in the case" and "food I didn't order" bollocks is a red herring, and absolutely in no way comparable to seeing a game trailer then finding a game isn't as fun to play as you thought it was. If you bought a game in a store and when you got home and opened it up and there was a different game's disc in the box, or you ordered a game box or key online and they delivered one for a different game, you can get a replacement or refund.
If you live in a country that doesn't have consumer laws, or you don't trust them, feel free to not take the risk, and don't get the game. Even third world countries and those with active warzones have the most basic of laws ensuring this, whether democratic, communist or a dictatorship. The few kinds of countries that don't have these basic rights are the kind countries you're likely to get shot or bombed walking down the street, you're unlikely to have running water let alone electricity, so buying the wrong video game isn't really a problem.
It's entitlement to believe that you're owed the game regardless. You have no right to it, and you don't deserve it. Why do you think you do? And I'd love to hear of a game you bought that failed to meet its own promises, that meets all of the criteria you specified.
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Alright, I'll take your bait. Breach, on release day. It rode in on a hype machine of destructible battlefields. Got it installed, loaded it up... the map I was in had like one specific light-colored wall you could blast through, and a house which had a couple of vulnerable sections. Destroyable set pieces existed as a gimmick, barely contributing to actual play--wholly unlike the trailer, which made it look like nearly any problem could be solved spectacularly by a well-placed grenade.
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So you got your hopes up, someone held a gun to your head and forced you to buy the game, and you got fooled by marketing. And you believe marketing is not present in any industry other than digital goods. And there were no previews, reviews or gameplay videos of this game. And you feel you had your consumer rights BREACHed (HAH!) by a game that promised destructible battlefields, and provided destructible battlefields. So of course you took your complaints to your local consumer rights group, who definitely didn't laugh you out of their office; no, they enforced your right not to be a mindless, idiot consumer and won you millions of dollars in compensation for your trauma and mental scarring, you poor precious little darling. And everyone lived happily ever after. Did it go something like that? Or are you just full of shit and scraping the bottom of the barrel for any old excuse to rationalise your illicit behaviour?
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Is this even the same discussion? You're all over the place. "Gun to my head"? What? You asked for an example of a game that failed to meet its own promises, and also met the other criteria I'd specified. You asked me to, in short, "put up or shut up". So there you go. Breach claimed "destructible battlefields". It did not deliver, instead permitting the demolition of a very small subset of specific set-pieces. Failed to meet promises. At time of purchase, the previews were unhelpful, the trailers lied, The game hadn't been -released- yet (which eliminates reviews, screenshots, gameplay vids, let's plays, etc) and there was no demo. My critera have been met. My consumer rights are irrelevant, this hypothetical being laughed out of a "consumer rights office" is meaningless, as is every bit of hyperbole attached to it. I can go back to the restaurant example--I ordered the steak, and didn't like how it was cooked. I can send it back to the kitchen and have them remove it from my bill. I could re-order a properly-prepared steak, but the kitchen can only prepare this particular steak one way. Now, back on point--if I'd ripped this game from a pirate site instead and given it fifteen minutes of my time, I wouldn't have wasted my money. Which, wonder of wonders, is kind of precious to me.
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I'm asking who forced you to buy the game. You can't answer that simple question. Let me do it for you, as a pirate you've obviously grown accustomed to being a parasite leaching off other people's work. The answer is nobody. You weren't forced to buy it. You said yourself, there was not sufficient information on which to judge whether the game was worthy of your purchase.
Which I simply find hard to believe, but that's not relevant to my point. I'm also wondering how you managed to buy a game that wasn't released yet? Perhaps, like an idiot, you preordered it? Sorry, my bad, perhaps I should have qualified my challenge: name at game THAT EXISTED AT THE TIME that met your criteria. Also, time is only relevant if YOU enable it to be. There are plenty of Breach gameplay videos and reviews now. What, you couldn't wait? Careful, you're entitlement is showing! Perhaps if you HAD waited, you wouldn't have wasted that precious money of yours?
Why did you go and buy it? And why not use that mistake as a lesson for future purchases: don't buy a game until you're reasonably sure it's worth it? And perhaps wait until the product actually exists before buying it.
It's really not that hard. I do it all the time. See that Ferrari over there? I don't think it's worth the price. Guess what? I didn't buy it. But I also didn't steal it. Wow that was easy!
Hey, there's hundreds, if not thousands of games on Steam I didn't buy. Many of them I've never heard of. Some of them don't appeal to me. Some of them I like, but I'll WAIT until they're on sale. (Now there's a strange concept, wanting something and not having it NOW NOW NOW! Settle down Veruca Salt.) Some I'm not sure about, so I read reviews or watch videos. And if I'm still not sure, I won't get it. Or I'll just take a gamble and buy it, and suck it up if I end up not liking it. That's called Risk, life is full of it, it makes things fun! Remember, this is a luxury product we're talking about, if you can't afford to take the risk, don't.
Wow, it's easier than I thought to not buy things, I must have god damn super powers because you're acting like you can't even fathom the idea of not having everything you think you want.
Ok I'm done lecturing on common sense to you, if you haven't got it by now you never will. Let's try a little role play. So now you're in a store, there's lots of video games on the shelves, you're not sure which one to get, what do you do? You use the information at your fingertips and... NO! Put the game down, don't walk out the store with it, that's stealing and it's naughty! Mummy and daddy won't like that! No, you use information, there's this great invention called the Internet that's got lots of it, you put your big boy pants on and figure out if the price of the video game is worth the RISK of if you'll like it or not. And don't be alarmed, YOU WILL NOT DIE if you don't buy it right then and there. Feel free to take your time, there's no rush. Now if you think the game is worth it, you take that previous money of yours, and give it to that nice man behind the counter. And if you're unsure, if you have any hesitations, well maybe you're better off waiting until it's on sale, or going without entirely. Hey, maybe there's another game out there that's much more deserving of your time and money and you'll forget all about this one.
Now, don't worry if it sounds like I'm being condescending and talking to you like a 6 year old, it's just because I am, you sound like you really need it.
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(I'm asking who forced...)
Loaded question, irrelevant.
(...obviously grown accustomed...)
Ad hominem, pointless.
(...not sufficient information...)
So you have been paying attention, at least to a limited extent. Yes, there wasn't sufficient information to judge, but that's only half of the point. The other half is that the extant information -appeared- sufficient, which you continue to miss.
(...like an idiot, you preordered...)
Yeah. Exactly. It made itself look like a good buy, I was excited by the potential of what I saw, and I wasn't yet aware of how dishonest and deceptive game devs could be.
(...qualified my challenge...)
Moving the goalposts. The original challenge was that I support my claim that information about a game was limited. I did so.
(...couldn't wait? ...entitlement...)
Ad hominem, engaging in a discussion other than the current one.
(...mistake as a lesson...)
I have. No more preorders. No more trusting what media the developer releases.
(Ferrari example...)
Invalid analogy, four times over.
- A Ferrari is a supra-luxury product, its cost not even in the same timezone as a video game.
- A Ferrari is a long-established product, whose capabilities are reasonably-well understood.
- A Ferrari is hardware, not software. Stealing it deprives the owner of the original.
- You can test-drive cars, generally speaking.
(...being condescending...)
Your tone doesn't concern me in the slightest. This is the internet, you've chosen to be socially inflammatory, how you're speaking has nothing to do with what you're saying. I'd just prefer if you'd stay focused on the discussion at hand, rather than veering off into poor analogies, direct personal attacks, and attempted guilt-tripping.
I can even provide an example inverse to what you continue to imply. Evil Genius. First played a friend's copy when I was still in grade school, didn't understand the mechanics. Pirated a copy in college, I may still have the CD burn. Played that for a few hours to get a better grasp of the depth and how it was supposed to work. Uninstalled. Now I own the Steam version and have 28 hours logged. And now that I've paid for a legitimate software license, my original pirated CD is the backup I'm legally permitted to make.
There's also a point you continue to fail to even recognize, and that's whether the game will run at all on my hardware. Because my precious money is limited, my gaming rig isn't exactly state-of-the-art. A game's "minimum system requirements" are also commonly misleading, and no amount of media or Let's Plays will tell me if my system can handle it. Twenty minutes of piracy can.
I'm not just some "entitled" thief. My Steam library contains 320 purchased games. 12 of which disappointed me.
Of those 12, one was Breach. One was a poorly-done console port. One has a really bizarre control scheme which appears to require three hands. Two were early-access projects with big promises, abandoned by their developers. Two simply won't run on my hardware.
The remaining five I just didn't like, but that's on me. Those were my misjudgments, and I don't actually regret them.
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Please learn your logical fallacies if you insist on invoking them. Ad Hominem is when one refutes an argument by attacking one's character rather than the topic. I'm not saying you're wrong because you're entitled prick. I'm saying, here's 100 reasons why you and your argument are full of shit, the fact that you're an entitled prick is inconsequential.
"Moving the goalposts."
Yes, I truly am sorry, I figured it would have been obvious that when I asked for a game that met all the criteria specified, I meant a game that actually existed, not one still in development or that was only a fantasy you concocted Oh dear, clearly my argument falls apartment and I should give up...
By the way, that was sarcasm. Just thought I'd mention since I know you have problems with the obvious not being stated.
You know what I also didn't do? I didn't qualify a time frame on the topic. There are currently several gameplay videos and many reviews of Breach, even news articles about how it was so bad it was removed from Steam. So, sorry, it doesn't meet your criteria. If only you'd have waited, like I fucking pointed out several times already, you wouldn't have wasted your money on it (in fact you couldn't even buy it if you wanted). But that doesn't fit with you "I WANT IT NOW!" entitlement, does it?
"There's also a point you continue to fail to even recognize, and that's whether the game will run at all on my hardware."
It's not that I don't recognise your point, do you think you're the first dumb shit pirate I've had to school on the ways of life. It's just that, for every problem you raise, there are a dozen solutions. Problem is, most of them involve some kind of sacrifice (eg financially, or simply going without the game, which you don't seem to understand is an option), effort, or quite simply, don't involve you getting games for free, so I know you're not interested. For example, there's a market for people who can't afford to keep there PCs up to date, or aren't sure how to match hardware to requirement specs, nor can they read hardware benchmarks. That market would be console. And that's a perfectly reasonable alternative, lots of people do it. Unless you think you might have trouble figuring out how to stick a Blu Ray disc in your Atari 2600. In that case here, have this ball attached to a cup with string, it will provide hours of fun and I guarantee it's compatible with your hardware*.
"I can even provide an example inverse to what you continue to imply."
So what? "Oh, I robbed a bank, but it's ok, I used the money I stole to buy a fancy suit which got me a job, now I can finally pay back the people I stole from 30 years later". Who gives a fuck? Piracy is a crime, a single act of misdeed, it's not a state of existence that you must perpetually maintain in order to still be a bad person. You pirated. You took something that didn't belong to you. Nothing you can do changes that fact, and you don't even feel remorse for it because YOU CONTINUE TO DO IT AND/OR CONDONE IT. That you don't understand this is indicative of the fact that, in general, pirates just really don't "get it". But alas you can't cure sociopathy .
"(Ferrari example...)
Invalid analogy, four times over."
"A Ferrari is a supra-luxury product, its cost not even in the same timezone as a video game."
Yes, Ferraris and video games don't cost the same. How does this make the analogy invalid?
"A Ferrari is a long-established product, whose capabilities are reasonably-well understood."
Computer software is a long established product, whose capabilities are reasonably-well understood. That you thought Breach would provide a 6-dimensional fully-immersive experience with real-time physics simulation at the atomic level on a Commodore 64, while making you coffee and giving you a handy under the desk is mildly detached from reality and past experience. Are you a child? Or just have the intellect of one? Have you never heard of marketing before? These aren't exactly new concepts, does the centuries-old "Caveat emptor" mean nothing to you? Do we need to get you a helmet and/or a permanent carer?
"A Ferrari is hardware, not software. Stealing it deprives the owner of the original."
Yeah, pirates love to trot out this old gem when they run out of arguments. You were saying something about moving goalposts? Maybe if it was your point all along that "piracy is ok because it's intellectual property, not physical property" then we could actually be debating this and you could forget about all the other easily-refuted bullshit you kept talking about. But this was never your point, so don't bother trying to refute an argument by shifting the debate to another, completely unrelated (but still easily refuted) point.
"You can test-drive cars, generally speaking."
Ah, but what if the car hasn't been built yet? How do you test drive a car that's still in the paper concept stage? What if Ferrari starts taking pre-orders today for a car that won't physically exist for another 5 years? WHAT WILL WE DO THEN? Clearly we MUST pre-order it based on the little information we have at hand! THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE.
*Unless you don't have arms. Then you're fucked.
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Even third world countries and those with active warzones have the most basic of laws ensuring this, whether democratic, communist or a dictatorship.
I'd like to ask you to make more thorough research before saying this.
Here in the world's most populous country, the world's second-largest economy by nominal total GDP and the largest by purchasing power parity (PPP), we don't actually have consumer laws nor copyright laws that work. I mean, do they exist, yes. But nobody cares if the company false advertising, or if we just pirate their products. Tell that to the judges, see if they cares.
Remember, you only know a very small part of this world. So next time, don't get to the conclusion so easily.
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So, like I said, even China has consumer rights. Why don't you try telling the Consumer Protection Committee, instead of your corrupt judges? But of course, China has one of the highest piracy rates, so as citizens you've really screwed the pooch on that one. If you as consumers can't take the laws seriously, why would companies? That's why the rest of the world doesn't take you seriously.
But like I said, if you don't trust your government, you could simply go without. Contrary to popular belief, you won't die if you don't play a particular game. Why do you think you're entitled to do so? What exactly are the triggers that turns a normal, law-abiding moral person with common sense, into an ungrateful, selfish little shit that thinks the world owes them everything they cry to mummy and daddy for? If you disagree with my conclusion (nice try on the racist, dumb American angle you were going for; though if you were half-intelligent you'd notice my choice of spelling tells otherwise. Who only knows a small part of the world now?) feel free to enlighten me with your worldly experience as to why you're proud of thieving your way though life.
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Personally, I pirate no more 2 years ago, since I'm an adult and I can afford things myself. Siding with people who pirates doesn't necessarily mean pirating myself.
About the Consumer Protection Committee, yeah, I called them once, when I bought a video from a store which I found pirated later. Guess what? They don't give a fuck. In a world that nobody takes the laws seriously, you'd be a dumb idiot to take it seriously. (yeah, I'm that dumb idiot)
I didn't say "dumb American", nor did I say or imply "racist". I'm just disproving your point, that "every country have consumer laws that ensure consumer rights". I'm also proving that you know only a small part of this world. (Not only regionally) I'm not saying I know more than you, I'm just sharing my part of the world with you.
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"In a world that nobody takes the laws seriously, you'd be a dumb idiot to take it seriously."
Why stop at stealing games then? I mean basically your argument is 'everybody else breaks laws, therefore it's ok that I do it too'. "Dog eat dog" etc. Why not just go rob a bank? There are rapes and murders everyday, what's stopping you? What you're talking about is basically an anarchic society, and YOU are part of the problem, not the solution. You clearly have no morals of your own, and don't feel the laws apply to you. I almost feel sorry for you that you believe this way, except that's far more outweighed by my disgust at your reckless anti-social stance over nothing more than the fact you want free video games.
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I'm part of the problem, sure, yes. But you are part of it too. So stop acting like you are "morally superior".
If something happens, it must has its own reason. Same for piracy. Why people pirate games? (I say again, that I am no longer part of it. So stop spamming your disrespectful words. That is "disgusting") Because some irresponsible devs sell their homework-like game for 1/10 of people's monthly salary. Because they falsely believe that their work values far greater than other people. What's more, because the production companies make huge profit though basically, they did nothing. I'm not arguing that pirating is legitimate, nor did I said that it should be morally right. What I'm telling, is that it is REASONABLE. If you really support the entertainment industry, you should go for that reason, not the people who pirates. Claiming the moral high ground does NOT help the fact that people are pirating, and they WILL keep doing it if the situation does not change.
You said stealing. Yeah, so let's talk about it, about crime itself. Do you consider yourself more righteous? Because you don't commit a crime? Fact is you are part of the problem too. Why people commit crimes? Lots of reasons. Lack of education, unemployment, etc. Isn't it their own fault? Of course it is, but it's more of this society than their own. When people like you receive education, you occupied resources that he can otherwise enjoy. Crimes are only a result of problems of this society. And you are no less sinful than the criminal themselves.
Let me ask you a question. In WW2, there are Germans, who does not support Nazism themselves, but have to work for the concentration camps. Were they wrong? From my perspective, no. They just did what they have to do. People like us have NO right to judge them only because we are luckier and we weren't born in that kind of situation. And we cannot promise that we would do better than them in that situation.
I may be emotional when I wrote this, but I'm trying to reason with you, nothing personal. Whether you accept my opinion or not, this will probably be my last post. So I quoted some lines from the Bible to share with you. I hope you like it.
Judge not, that you be not judged. For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you. And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
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You keep saying I'm part of the problem. But then you didn't even say how. Big fail there.
Then you compare piracy to Germans who were forced to do Nazi work. WTF?
WHO IS FORCING YOU TO COMMIT PIRACY? It's a luxury entertainment product for fucks sake! Why are you acting like video games are bread and water? And even if they were, there's plenty of cheaper or free games; but no, that's not good enough, it has to be THIS specific game. That's like saying, oh he's homeless and starving, therefore it's ok if he steals $1000/kg caviar and a 40,000 dollar bottle of wine. Seriously, check your privilege dude. Stop trying to justify your crimes.
Oh, and if you want to quote the Bible, how about this little gem: THOU SHALT NOT STEAL
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If u really think piracy=stealing, you should really spend your time looking through this thread. There are many posts that can answer your question.
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Google define steal
Steal: take (another person's property) without permission or legal right and without intending to return it.
Yes, yes, I know what pirates say, for some reason they like to avoid the word "steal" because that would be bad, instead it's "copyright infringement" or "free speech" then it's not so bad, just like rape is "partially voluntary sexual enjoyment" or murder can be "non-temporary cessation of life-enhancing faculties". Ironically, pirates say that piracy is not stealing because that is not the correct legal term. What they don't mention is that even taking physical property usually isn't legally "stealing", it's burglary, theft, robbery, fraud, obtaining property by deception etc depending on the circumstances and jurisdiction. Funny how pirates like to refer to the law when it suits them.
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Quick question Johannason... are you arguing in justification of piracy, or refunds?
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It's a justification of piracy as a form of product testing, to see if a given software will A: run properly, and B: actually be what it's claimed to be. If it does, delete the pirate copy, buy the real thing. As the root comment of this debacle says, "If you like it, support it". But if it doesn't, delete the pirate copy -anyway-, and just don't buy the real thing. Lesson learned, it wasn't worth your money.
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If you've ever worked in hospitality, you'd know that there's millions of people who try all of those things. Ironically, a lot of them are against piracy - it's just that they see corporate bodies as people, but don't see service workers as people. Pirates tend to have it the other way around, in my experience (I'm not trying to justify piracy, just my 2c).
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that's what demos are for? the best devs & publishers will offer demo versions of their games on steam, letting you try out a level or two or certain basic features to get a feel for the game. it's basically the complete opposite of trying to get you to preorder.
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Exactly First i bought Skyrim on my old pc for 60 euro's and redeemed the steam key on a steam account i can't remember and lost 60 euro's;'( . I was so angry i got a new pc so i downloaded Skyrim again pirated just to see if my new one could handle it and it did easily and now i bought the legendary version on my steam account :P. +1
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Your point is fair and it goes without saying, but things are hardly that black & white. Plenty of publishers nowadays will avoid releasing any sort of demo, mostly due to the (justified) fear that you might realise how the playable part does not meet your expectations thus possibly changing your mind on the purchase. There is nothing wrong with pirating a game if you treat it as a playable demo, ensure that everything you expected is fine and then buy here or on some other distribution platform.
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I try to avoid pirating games, but when I do test the waters it seems to be for a reeaaally long time (I'm looking at you WL2 and PoEt!).
Then I hard ban myself from playing.. at all.. (it sucks). I forbid myself from playing until I can actually buy a copy and support the devs. No GMG or g2a.com bullsh*t.
I usually only pirate games I'm 90% I will really like. That's how I discovered Witcher 2.. Have all 3 of em now :3
Unfortunately, now the list of games I need to buy is up to like five $20+ games. Bittersuite
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GMG is an official and legit reseller though… their only big flaw is that hard promotion of PlayFire. At least it's not mandatory to buy and play games from there. Didn't you want to say Kinguin? That is the "other G2A".
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Kinguin too.
Idk.. GMG claims to be a licensed seller that gets their keys only from the devs/publishers. But the whole witcher 3 episode makes me not trust them at all
"GoG didn't sell us keys, probably because they want to only promote themselves and their platform!".. yeah.. except Witcher 3 was also sold on Uplay, Steam, Humble Bundle, Origin etc.
Now they have that 23% off Fallout 4 deal, that they "totally got from Steam." I have not seen any other pre-order deal except from the official Bethesda site ('buy F4 and save 20% on your next Bethesda game')
I don't really understand how they claim to be officially licensed re-sellers, but then sell most games for cheaper than the actual licensed re-sellers. Something fishy is going on, and they don't seem to be as legit as they claim imo
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They buy games with stoled credit cards and re-sell them at lower prices to have they money clean. I taught everybody knows that.
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I understand your point, but most of the people that I know that use bootlegged/pirated warez play that demo to fruition... and never dole out the cash.
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+1, every game that I have pirated and enjoyed I bought
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This. I used to pirate games a lot. Then I actually grew up. Devs deserve their money.
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I support it with Gabe money. Haven't spent my own actual money for games in years :)
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You should buy your games particularly if you are not a poor high school student. When you are in high school you may pirate as you can't buy games as you have no credit card.
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Who the hell cares. In our current state, it's not a game-changer. It's not going downhill, either. People understand how the 'free-market' works.
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same with music and movie industry. they already make millions, even with the pirated copies around.
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Especially music! If we get rid of music piracy, there will be no sales for ticket concerts. And that's the main money maker for music artists, not record sales. Plus I think all art should be free of charge, it's a form of education after all.
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The way I see it, downloading an album of a band you never listened to before gives you the chance to see if you like them. If you do become a fan, you would like to actually buy the album and listen to them live. I think this helps broaden the fan base, thus giving them new markets and opportunities for more tours. Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean you shouldn't support the artists you like.
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Or instead listen to the music on Spotify or Pandora so it''s still free and the band gets money for their work.
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Spotify is actually pretty good, I use it often. Is Pandora still region blocked? But you have a point, this could be the the best decision. Internet connection is more widely spread and there are more labels adding their music every day.
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+1
With spotify, you can spend 10 dollars to listen to music anytime without an internet connection, for songs that would cost you $0.99 EACH on itunes.
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You should check out Tidal. Both Spotify and Pandora make licensing deals with the production companies, rather than the artist. With Tidal, a majority share goes to the artist.
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Spotify is free with advertising. Not everyone can afford a subscription to the likes of Tidal.
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If one pays Spotify 10 dollars to listen to EVERYTHING, then what exactly do all those artists get? Nothing at all.
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They get a few cents per play, and my understanding is that popular artists get more cents per play. Off the top of my head, it's something like 5-10 listens equals 1 album sale, for artists who belong to a major label - not a perfect system, but many of those listeners would be Spotify's free users who probably can't afford to actually buy the album, so the artist still ends up with more than they would otherwise.
It's a terrible deal for actually-independent artists though, who get to keep most of the money from their sales because they don't have a label raking in the profits.
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Actually, records sales used to be the money makers for artists, and touring was more of an enjoyable part. Now since they are not able to recoup the kinds of money out of selling their music the only money maker is the touring... if they play all the time. So in part you are right, but only because the expansion of copyright infringement expanded to the extent it has.
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as an artist I don't think art should be free because like any other human being we have to eat and bills to pay
sure it's educational at some point but is also work
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I can relate, because I'm a guitarist (classical guitar) and I know how hard all of this is. But the free access to art is some kind of a dream to me, I don't think people should be deprived from their "food for the soul" if they have no money. I live in Bulgaria and when it comes to income, things here are grim. I gladly pay for the music, games and films I like, but twenty euro here are 10% of the minimal wage (for a month). You can easily see the difference between our wages and those for the rest of EU countries online, but the prices of these goods are almost the same and I think all people deserve the same opportunities to better themselves. I know free art is an utopia, but I hope we can achieve it someday.
Also, sorry for the long post. :)
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Yeah, that would be good but people have to eat too, at least here we can work with the local government and get paid by them if we are lucky and share with the people of our community but it isn't always like that
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Yeah, it looks luck is a major factor everywhere. Are you really from Costa Rica? Almost our whole country was routing for you in the world cup! :D Man, the match with Italy was awesome!
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Yeah, I am. I was born here and lived here my whole life
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-1
I care.
Just because you don't care if someone steals things from you, does not mean I have to like it. Last I checked Free Market does not mean that everything is free.
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No, I'm pretty sure I got it... it's not a new argument.
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It's not simply 'lol im edgy who cares lululul'. If you don't care enough about the topic to see all sides to it, then that's just plain ignorance.
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I see both sides to it, perhaps you should analyze whether or not you do. I used to do the same thing. I lay no claim to innocence here. It is the fact that I started to see the realities of both sides that altered my opinion to what it is today.
I actually find it a bit entertaining that one will accuse another of ignorance or stupidity because their stance is varied. To me that is nothing but the pot calling the kettle black.
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The original point of which I am referencing is not varied by any measure, especially since both sides tend to think they are correct no matter what, so the neutral stance is never involved, or should not be involved.
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I think pirating games for trying it out is okey, cos I have an old shit and some games run on it, some not. But if a game run well on my pc, I buy it because someone worked hard on that game and I respect it.
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that's a new policy, and restricted by "time played" what if you want to give the game a chance, and then decide it is complete pile of S.H.I.T?
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nop, 2 hr is enough on a small platform game, on a mass scaled game like civ,skyrim,dragon age,witcher, s.t.a.l.k.e.r...etc' if you play only 2 hr you didnt gave the game a chance.
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Agreed! that's like people writing reviews after <1 hour game time. Some games need to grow on you, some don't.
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yes i allways ply 16 hour's tu c if te main storry has a gud ending or not.
Seriously, wtf? After 2 hours you WILL see if you like a game's concept. You see if the graphics seem ok, if the plot is interesting, how the gameplay works and everything. More than 2 hours of free games is just a rip off. In my opinion, this whole "No, I gutta see if the game is good" reason for piracy is just a "I need an argument to hide that I am just too greedy and only care about myself" term actually.
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Or that some people can't afford to buy every game they like, my position. And don't start some bullshit on how if I can't afford to buy a game, I shouldn't play it. I've completed GTA V already on the console, thus 39.99 seems like a rip off for a lately released version on PC. No, I will not buy the game for its full price, it just feels pointless to buy the same game a second time.
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I can't buy any game I like to, too. I want to have GTA V, Project Cars, Watch Dogs, etc. So I put priorities and do the stuff I like most. What is so hard about that?
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I just don't understand how you can possibly be so determined against piracy. If you choose to buy all your games, fine, go ahead. But you can't judge people for their actions without knowing the background story as to why they did it. Also, let's be honest. You're downloading a game and playing it, just like you quite probably download your music and put it on your phone. You don't have any remorse that you're not contributing to the artist whilst listening to your favourite song, do you?
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Do you really think that I, who is determined against piracy, as you said, illegally downloads music? I don't listen to a lot of music, but if I like an artist, I buy his stuff. Depending on how much I like him, I buy the digital/standart/deluxe/collector's edition.
Also I can judge people for their actions. This is how law works. And as I hate ANY form of piracy (except when you already bought something and can't play it due to DRM reasons. Because you already bought it), I don't need to know the "reasons". Btw, the reasons are "I don't want to spend money" most of the time anyways.
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The main reason is that games nowadays are simple way over the top when considering prices, $80 dollars for a god damn game? That's quite possibly the amount of food a family with limited possibilities eats over the course of a few weeks. Dude, that's how much money people from LEDC's earn in months. And yes, I think that you, determined as you are against piracy, find it as stupid as I do to spend a dollar to listen to a song whilst you can simply play it from youtube. I mean, come on. Also, you can't associate pirating with actions condemmed by law. Downloading a game has nothing to do with actions such as crime or rape, as pirating has no physical effect on anyone and the harm it causes is limited. Developers losing out? If someone pirates their game is because they agree that overpricing games is simply stupid. If GTA V was released for $20 dollars, and I can assure you that 80% of the people, if not more, that pirated it would have just bought it, but when you release the same product you've released two years ago for the exact same price, some won't quite agree with the developer there.
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In the end, it is up to you to decide how you want to spend your 80$. You can buy food, go amuse yourself, buy cloth, or buy a game. What is so wrong about that? I payed 85$ for The Crew, because I was really hyped and therefore did not buy cloth that I liked.
Watching on youtube/Deezer/Spotify is something else than downloading from youtube. Watching it there gives the artist money via advertisment. Downloading it does not give him any money. And I mean, why do we have radio? They also play new songs financed by advertisment.
Pirating is illegal. There are laws. So I can associate it with robbery. Not everything that laws forbid has something to do with physical effects. Degrading people in the public for example. Or robbing copyrighted contents. There are laws about piracy for reasons and piracy is forbidden by law for reasons.
The argument with "80% would buy it" has never been proven and is not logical. And if you don't want to agree with developers, then simply not play their games. If you do, you seem to agree. And if you pirate their games, you agree with the developer AND show that you have a weak mind.
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You are so blind it generally hurts to even think what is in your head. The argument I've made is logical, and of course is not proven as no developer ever has considered releasing their 'great' game that has been remastered or moved on to a different machine for less money, something we like to call 'money whoring'. If I pirate the game, it doesn't mean I agree with the developer in all aspects, yes, I agree it is indeed a great game. But, if I ended up having to download a game it's simply because the price is either unjustified or exaggerated.
There are laws against not pissing on the ground, and there are laws against murder. You can't associate the two because they have a very different effect on the society. Physical robbery involves stealing a physical item such as a car or simply clothing, as you've mentioned, whereas pirating of music or games is simply copying intellectual property, without it being removed from the developer such as in the case of a robbery. Different crimes result in different punishments due to their effect on the society, so an offence punishable by jail can't be associated with an offence for which you get fined. Open your mind EDDY!
'Pirating is illegal. There are laws. So I can associate it with robbery. Not everything that laws forbid has something to do with physical effects.' Yes, but you still have to understand that different crimes are punished in different manners, and you can't associate them all together because of your narrow minded thinking.
'I payed 85$ for The Crew, because I was really hyped and therefore did not buy cloth that I liked.' Good for you, shows you can afford to splash out that amount of money for a video game. But why should someone like me, who buys video games, be judged because I can't afford to purchase all of them? Am I stealing anything? If I had no intention to purchase the game prior to me downloading it, then no revenue has been lost for the developer as I wasn't intending to purchase the game anyway. Pirating can also help, as others have already mentioned. Because of how good the game is, it might pursue them to purchase a digital version to unlock online play or to simply unlock the legitimate version.
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To make it short and to bring it to an end:
Buy games or don't do, but don't do that selfish "Uh I want everything to be free for me, because I am more important than the people who work for products" stuff.
Crimes are crimes. Of course, murdering is one of the worst crimes, but this does not make other crimes be not important. Piracy is a crime.
If you can't afford all of them, stick to a few- I do that, too. I did not buy any game since the Crew for example.
Yes you are stealing if you pirate games. Also, at the moment of downloading a game, you obviously have the intention of playing the game. So revenue has been lost for the developer.
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"So revenue has been lost for the developer."
Sorry but that's not true in most cases. People who pirate in most cases never had the intention to buy the game in the first place, hence there was no revenue to be gained. If piracy wasn't an option, most of them would just ignore the game. I'm sure there'd be a few people who'd buy the game then , but the number of them would be negligible.
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- no
- In my opinion, there are few idiotic laws over here.
- Laws have to be fought for or against in judges or in public places, but what is the sense of a boycott if you do it for yourself and don't tell anyone? O.o
- Copyrights are copyrights for reasons.
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to call something a robbery usually requires a victim to be present at the time and be subject to personal harm, otherwise its theft or burglary fyi
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Or that some people can't afford to buy every game they like, my position.
You know, I get it if someone cannot afford food and resorts to stealing it, but what you are arguing here is that because you cannot afford it you should just be able to take it. I wonder if you would feel the same empathy for a person that took something from you because they could not afford it, but wanted it. I hear that argument a lot. I always just assume it is because the adverse affect does not apply to the person trying to justify the theft.
Gaming is a privilege and not a right... seriously, I do feel for people that love to game and just cannot afford too. That is likely why I do not get hung up on leeching here... at least they are trying to acquire something without illegitimately taking something from another.
Honestly nopzor, I have read most of your thread down the line here. It is clear you and I are not going to agree on this. However, if the majority of gaming software were not pirated... I wonder if I would still be paying sixty dollars a game, or if it they would still be more reasonably priced? Though (again IMO)... I don't think they are all that unreasonable seeing as how you can get a game for about the cost of filling up a vehicle 1+ times.
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Again, comparing theft of physical property with the copying of digital information cannot be contrasted, as they have two very different effects. If I stole your food, then it's gone. You won't be able to have it, you won't be able to eat it. If I acquired a game by the means of torrent from the internet, it can be considered a form of theft, but without any negative effect on the one that produced the game. His game is still available and he is still able to do what he pleases with that game.
Indeed, gaming is a privilege, not a right. However, the society nowadays is dependent on gaming, as more and more young people base their lifestyles around their computer and their video games. As a lot of people are aware, young people in general are unable to spend tons of money, due to either being to young to have a job or due to them living on their own, and prioritise their income on essentials such as rent and food. Now, most game developers of AAA titles seem to constantly increase the cost of their games on release, good examples being The Witcher 3 and Fallout 4, both starting at $60+ without any DLC. Honestly, spending that amount of money on a single games seems stupid, reason why I haven't even considered it. I haven't downloaded it either, as my GPU is not particularly 'amazing'.
Games have never and will probably never be 'reasonably' priced, as there is lack of interest from the developers to earn less cash, and also due to people that have $60 to spend on a single title, earning them good revenue. One last thing, whenever I hear people saying that if a person downloaded a game that means lost revenue, that is false. If a person ended up downloading a game instead of buying it, it means that either they are young teenagers, people with limited possibilities or reasonable people that find it stupid to spend their income on one game they might not even enjoy. This might change due to Steam's refund policy, but we'll see.
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There is absolutely no reason the two cannot be compared. Honestly, I stand by my statement that you feel the way you do because it is not directly affecting you. Moments earlier you referred to another user here as blind and I believe narrow minded.
You may wish to evaluate your line of thought here. IMO at this point, you are merely fixated on justifying the wrong. Feel free to do so.
-1
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I've stated before, but just as you are saying I'm fixating on one thing, you are exactly in my position. You can't get out of the mindset that has been 'implanted' inside your brain. Theft involves a person acquiring a physical object and/or an idea, but again you have to understand that the way theft is punished for a physical object is not the same for theft of ideas. Same goes for downloading game of the internet. I find it more appropriate to compare downloading games with borrowing a book from the library, even though when you are borrowing the book you have the physical object under your possession and your possession only, whereas when you are 'borrowing' a game from the internet you are not the only one in possession of the files.
Either way, it's your right to think the way you think, freedom of speech is what people have fought for hundreds and thousands of years. I'll stand by my ideas about the topic, and you should stand by yours. Good day.
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sir,
my steam/uplay/origin/gog accounts and good old free drm physical games says different, and as i am - so are many others.
i did my share of downloading games for several reasons:
- ridicules and unjustified prices (40-80$ for a game?!)
- time after time of wrong tec req
- fail to release a demo (for example before i bought mass effect 3 i played the demo!) to see if the game is for you or not
- games that been close to my country otherwise
- games i already own on different platform
over 70% of the game i pirated i bought, 30% are crap/unplayable for me and are waste of time.
by the way you dont play a game just to "rush it", on the first time you play a game like xcom, civ, witcher, coh, 2hr will barley pass you from the tutorial phase - if at all!
its not enough to determine nothing, not to say enough to give a game a chance.
if you "rush" your games to the end for "fun", thats your preference not mine, i prefer to play the games insted.
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After 2 hours you will know how the game feels and wheter you like it or not. If you want to continue it after 2 hours, then you obviously like it and can buy it, where is your point?
About your arguments: "40-80$ for a game?!" - just don't buy it. Wait for it to get cheaper or boycott it if you don't like that prices. But don't use doubled standarts saying "Oh I don't like that gaming world" and then play it. This just shows of a weak mind.
"time after time of wrong tec req" - you can refund these games on nearly any distribution platform- steam, Origin, ...
"fail to release a demo" watch a Let's play, or read some reviews.
"games that been close to my country otherwise" - if you mean the fact that games are forbidden in your contry, just buy trade them from USA or something if possible.
"games i already own on different platform" you have to make a decision about where you want to play your game. Either or. Or both, but then you have to live with the costs.
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i find it very amusing that the NEW refund-system on steam is already so good.
it gets nothing but praise it seems, but you do realize he was talking about the past? the past where he couldn't refund games on steam? you can refund now, if you watch your playtime carefully. so better use a stopwatch while playing a new game!
the demo thing is another point. no a let's play or a review is not the same as a demo. a demo is something you get your own hands on a game, you play, not someone else.
trading banned games is not so easy, there is a reason it's called "banned". they can shutdown your account or simply remove the game you just traded, because it is banned in your country.
i agree on the price thing with you. you have to choose when to buy a game, if you can't afford it, don't buy it!
the platform thingy is imho a little bit outdated on the developer-side. you should not have to buy several copies for each system. but i guess this is something you probably will only see with pc and xbox in the future.
the 2 hour limit might be enough, might not be. i would say it depends on the player.
i hope i did not offend anyone, was just writing my 2 cents.
have a nice day and game on!
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"If you want to continue it after 2 hours, then you obviously like it and can buy it" - forgive my language but - bullshit, i can argue on and on and on but for what point?
i doubt any one can judge a game like Rome total war or king Arthur or crusader kings or any one of the game i already stated in 2hr even 5hr is barely enough for first impression!
sorry but you cant feel the direction of those games on 2hr (well except of you off curse).
"Wait for it to get cheaper or boycott it" - whats the difference if you download it now and play then buy it later on on sale or buy it on sale and play? same amount of $ spent and same amount of time spent.
"you can refund these games on nearly any distribution platform" - not always true, and again there are limits, for example what will you do with a game bought as a gift not from your regain? or got to you after the refund time? you dont have a recite?
"watch a Let's play, or read some reviews" - got an answer for this from psycho :-)
"just buy trade them from USA or something if possible" not all games you can do that with.especially with the new "trading/vpn" rolls pooping all around...your are risking with a ban/ game you cant activate nor refund.
"you have to make a decision about where you want to play" - no i dont, paid good solid $ for it, no reason to do that again.
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wait you want to finish main quests before you decided you like it or not?
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Steam account ban, let the developers implement files in their game which should detect if someone is pirating and let the devs automaticly contact steam about that.
Er... isn't that one of the main reasons people pirate? Horrible DRM and/or dubious files?
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This is the exact opposite of a solution.
"OH, lets prevent them from any potential future purchase! that should teach them! now they must pirate all their games""
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The main reason is "free". The you have the ones on some forums who pretend that it's for demo/quality-assurance purposes. Then there are the very few who are retarded enough to actually consider it a message that's making some point to companies and the world.
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I touched the demo part in my reply above, but what exactly is wrong with pirating the game for demo/quality-assurance purposes? I am also somewhat confused by that "pretend" part.
Here is an example: if I were to believe the system requirements on store page of MGR Revengeance back when it was released, I would probably never play the game. The game actually ran on 5x lower rigs compared to what was said in minimum requirements. I would as far to say that it was one of the best optimized games in last 5 years. Tried for 20 minutes, ensured that eveything is fine and aquired it on Steam a month later.
P.S.
Bunny :3
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Mr. xarabas :D
It's like free sampling of foods that have no free sampling signs. Helping yourself just because you may or may not buy them later doesn't provide the right to test it under unauthorized methods. Besides the distributors not having the right to send you a copy (pirates) to begin with. You may try to make it right later as it's rationalized, but that doesn't justify the process even if the concerns are valid. "You didn't meet my personal prerequisites/demands/requests/needs/etc. before the purchase phase of your product" is not a valid justification even if you feel entitled to it, basically.
I probably worded it incorrectly but I meant that people "pretend" that piracy is alright in certain circumstances. There are only 2 that are valid. One in my view is to save someone's life which is a greater good, and the other is with permission from the developers which makes it not-piracy (ala Hotline Miami 2 in Australia).
But I agree that the requirements tend to not take into consideration every hardware variables. Like The Witcher 3 running on APUs at all being impressive even if it's just 12 FPS. And that borderlands 2 one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F8nrmrpBMo was pretty crazy. They don't account for setups that don't 'run as intended' even though it's always possible to manage it somehow.
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You are still generalising and putting everyone in the same basket. I do not speak for or represent everyone, only myself.
Every game I pirated so far was purchased at later stage. Keep in mind that the last time I acquired something in such way was 8 years ago. I am now at the point where I buy the game just because they're cheap, regardless if I'll play them or not. So piracy would only come in the picture if I'm actually interested in playing the game to see if everything runs well.
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I lived a life of piracy, this is our society here, but I'm slowly starting to buy every game I ever enjoyed. I find nothing wrong with that, considering I'm the only person I know in my town that doesn't have a single SKIDROW or RELOADED folder.
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So u from his town? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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- Grandma 1 doesn't even know how to use the remote.
- Grandpa 1 used to play a pirated Bejeweled 2, now he's dead. Coincidence?
- Grandma 2 plays flash games, so she's OK.
- Grandpa 2 died before the Internet came here, he never got the chance to be a pirate.
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Me too, when I didn't have money. Since I'm working I buy all of my games. Even with a modded Xbox 360 I'm buying every single game.
I'm also buying every single game I ever pirated.
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I've got a pretty decent computer with a GTX780, so every game works fine. But I pirated Watch Dogs first, to see if I liked the game. Played a couple of missions and bought it afterwards.
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The intro scene was a slow motion video with interruption in audio, the game ran at 20-40 fps, but with really constant freezes... + driving was like playing Revolt.
It isn't the horrible game everyone claims it is, though, it's more than ok, it's just the perfect example of overrating a game before release and overreacting to the graphics (really now, unless you play a game in slow motion on 200% zoom ALL THE TIME, the game experience is the same. Look at GTA)
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i used to pirate (and i still pirating some games sometimes), but slowly i buying every game i enjoyed if i can
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+1
I have more or less 500 - 600 games scattered on several drm clients and cds, and most of my life I pirated games. Now that I can afford them I buy those which I like.
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if the game is too expensive and unfairly priced , I don't see any problem with pirating
not everyone has 60+ bucks to dish out on a game and another 50 for DLCs
if the games were fairly priced however and quality made , I would say support the developers for doing a good job
otherwise for most games its ok.
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+1
and, when on sale and on decent price get the game, if you liked it!
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so what im reading is that if you cant afford food or a car you steal one just because "you cant"
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a lot of people (like myself) cant afford a car, but then there is public transportation with reasonable price.
on food, you have basic food that coast supervise and food that is not branded by the logo of the manufacture, which allows to people who dont have $ to use it.
if only few will buy a game and if no one will pirate a game, the game will die, and the people and companies who made it will die, because even by pirating the game they get publicity, they get a higher chance for future percusses (because of liking the game), they get live communities etc'
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thank you for making me laugh :-D...oh boy...."it's a laughably stupid concept and the only reason you're putting it out there is to try and justify taking things you haven't paid for" good joke :-D
do you have some more "pearls of wisdom"?
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So with cars, there's the Ferrari you can't afford and public transportation.
With games, there's the Shadow of Mordor you cannot afford and freeware, bundle games and 80% sales.
Exercising restraint and saving money also happens to be an option. Kinda crazy.
But I'm sure the devs will be ever so pleased they get a live community of people who've downloaded the game for free. Who needs to buy bread and pay the bills, after all? How primitive! I, personally, only need air and the sun to survive.
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"there's the Ferrari you can't afford" - im talking about normal car not unnecessary over priced fancy ones.
"Shadow of Mordor you cannot afford" - its not a question of can/cant afford but more to over price tag.
"...restraint and saving money" - telling a person who struggle financially about "restraint and saving money" is Kinda crazy!
"sure the devs will be ever so pleased they get a live community" - actually that's what they thrive for, no community - no profits, no profits - no point in making games.
"...personally, only need air and the sun to survive" - please teach us how to do that :-P
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You were talking about 'too expensive and unfairly priced' games. That's a fancy car. It doesn't really matter, anyway.
The developer and publisher companies - real people who struggle financially just like everyone else - invest money and time on a project and then set the price.
If you think a product's unfairly priced - you don't buy it. Video games are not a necessity. If you cannot afford something, you learn to do without it. I love Fabergé eggs, too.
The community argument only works for f2p mmo's - and even then, it's the company's choice. What kind of profit does a pirate community bring to a single-player game? They create mods? Write blogs? That's very dubious, unquantifiable 'profit'.
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Actually, games like Game Dev Story were given a massive amount of publicity from their DRM stunt, which was propelled by pirates. People downloading a game that they wouldn't have played otherwise will talk about their experience, which helps to drive the game's sales.
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"That's a fancy car"- nop, a fancy car is over priced unneeded - see what i have "status" car, you dont have that with games (well you actually do all those p2w on a f2p games, but you dont need them in order to play)
" real people who struggle financially just like everyone else - invest money and time on a project and then set the price" - this is true for indie developer, or a first game developer, not major companies, and even so the price tag is not balanced.
if game cost "x" you should tag it reasonably for "y" gamers to porches it to cover expanses.
over the years avg game cost around 0.5 - 3 mil$, same for today indie titles, AAA today are around 20-80mil$ but lets take the end games value of consoles - destiny coasts were 140 mil$ made estimated profits of 325mil$ on the first 5 days! ~500mil$ just from retail shops! (no official statement on exactly how much copies were sold to date) not including digital purchases! thast X3.1-3.2 times the development coasts! sound logical to you?
lets talk about borderlands 2 (arround 35mil$) sold over 12 million units sold-in to date ,5 mil on first months, on avg of 50-60$ a copy, thats 250mil$ !!! sound logical to you?
GTA v -"GTA V has sold over 32.5 million copies, a result that helped the publisher to post a US$578 million net profit for the quarter and boost its net revenue forecasts to US$2.35-2.38 billion for the fiscal 2014."
those are for full prices! shell i continue? or better Google your titles profits.
they would do a fair profit even if they will sell it on normal sale value (75% discount) but we pay - so they allow themselves to do unfair prices, on our backs!
"If you think a product's unfairly priced - you don't buy it" - i dont i wait for sale.
"The community argument only works for f2p mmo's" - so not true, do some research, community upper solid profits and future titles profits.
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Video games are just as unneeded as a status car.
You don't get to decide what someone else's work is worth. They do. Again, you're not forced to buy their products. There is nothing objectively unfair about it - you are not entitled to any and all entertainment.
When they invest the money - they're not guaranteed to get it back. The more money a company pours into a project, they bigger is the risk they're taking. The money they earned is then invested into the next title, better software, hiring more people. What's more, you're not taking the actual, delivered product's quality into account. You know Watchdogs? It costed more than 68$ millions to make. It lasts 40 hours on average. Borderland II? Easily hundreds. Look at their scores. So how do you propose to decide what the companies behind those two games should earn? Watchdogs costed more to make, yet they delivered an inferior experience (generally speaking). The value of the final product is not directly proportional to the money it costed to make.
You said it yourself. 75% is a common enough discount value. We may argue about how manipulative that is - and I agree. But that's another subject.
Again, you don't get to make that choice for them. I don't see developers publishing blogs about how grateful they are that their game was pirated - do you? If it was such a profitable affair, they would just give away all those copies for free. We happen to be on one of those sites - the key difference's that they CHOOSE to give those keys away themselves.
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"Video games are just as unneeded as a status car." - not true,if we go by your line of thoughts every thing beside bread and water is "status item" so basically that's your opinion, reality dictates differently. video games are entertainment, learning tools, social tools and also the only gate outside for not so small part of the society (like elderly people, people with health issue/fears etc) that to say - inside the video market there are "status" items like dlc/p2w items on f2p games/ "special editions" that add nothing in general and such.
"You don't get to decide what someone else's work is worth" - wrong again, on all markets there are moral rules for profit making, and "enforcers" are the buyers themselves, so - yes we can 50-100% profit is fair above that its rubbery on broad daylight! we can demand and just not pay over priced titles!
"When they invest the money - they're not guaranteed to get it back" - sorry thats there fault, not ours, over the last years the game release "standards" went down, so down to the point of releasing 50% of broken game content on release and the rest as money leaching "dlc/season pass" in adition of not paying any attention to verity hardware out there what made game poor experience for the community - and thats the dev fault not the buyers, if they cant manage there budget, and cant deliver solid complete game, your title wont get "garbed"
if you release such a bad titles its unmoral to "heal" your loss on our back.
"...But that's another subject" - nope its part of this one.
"We happen to be on one of those sites" - nope we give platform to do a good dead - helping and shearing unneeded games, and some devs use that for marketing giving "X" keys as marketing strategy, dont mix the 2 subjects :-)
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Yes, they're just as unneeded as a status car, no matter how you try to spin it. Humans have managed to entertain themselves, socialise and learn for thousands of years. Most of the people in the world don't play video games, and they're just fine. We need food, water, shelter, medicine, positive social interaction, freedom, a sense of security - we don't need video games. They're nice to have - there's always room for improvement in anyone's life - but that doesn't mean you should have them, if you cannot afford them and the developer doesn't choose to give them away for free.
You 'enforce this rule' by not buying their product, not by pirating it. You keep ignoring the fact that video games are creative products. Again, the value of the final product is not necessarily linked to its cost.
It's not 'their fault', it's how the market works for anything - the bigger the risk, the bigger the payoff. No one invests 35 millions on a game out of the goodness of their heart. If there's no payoff, they won't take the risk.
There's nothing immoral about it, no one's forcing you to buy those things - you will live to see another day even if you don't buy them. If the devs fail to deliver what they promised (and we're not talking about how you 'didn't like the game', but about false advertisement and technical issues) you can ask for a refund.
I'm not mixing anything, but I'm really starting to wonder about you. It doesn't matter what the platform's original purpose is - the point's that it's one of the many means available to the devs to spread word about their game. If they want to give away keys for free, they will. They don't need your 'help'.
Anyway. I'm tired of arguing and this is not going anywhere. I'm sure you can find far more detailed, informative posts and articles about the issue if you ever care enough to look for them. Have a good day.
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You can't compare those. Pirating is not stealing, it's copying.
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If anybody is going hungry and can't afford food you can bet your ass their gonna steal some instead of just starving to death. But then again this and that are two different things.
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you thinking applies to Pirating being illegal in every single country , which it isn't
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Games ARE fairly priced, and the DLCs don't cost much (with the exception of some crap games, which no one should even think of buying).
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really? most games here in Canada cost about 70 bucks and DLCs cost up to 50 , if you think 120 bucks is a fair price then I don't even know what to say.
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As far as I remember, AAA games' minimum price was always 50 Euros, which equals to 70 Canadian dollars. It's a really good standard and I don't see why it is not fair, especially when they always end up being very cheap in a decent sale. DLCs are a far difference case. DLCs are not what makes the games, and unlike expansion packs, they usually provide unnecessary stuff.
If there are countries that have to complain about prices, those would be South American countries (the ones with the actual problem) and probably to the European countries that belong in the second European pricing group due to their low economical state, yet still retain the same prices as the European countries that belong in the first European pricing group. There might be some Asian and African countries with the same problem, but I don't really know.
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that depends , 70 bucks for games is not a good standard , it might be for games like GTA V because they continue to provide updates without any cost , but for games like Battlefield Hardline , Need For Speed and etc, it's not a good price
again , I am not talking about sales , Sales for specific games don't happen too often specially for AAA games
and in Canada you can't even buy Black Ops 3 for 70 , you have to pay for the DLC as well , for the full cost of 120 dollars
just to put it in perspective , a PlayStation costs 400 while a game can cost up to 100 , is that really fair?
when you say DLCs aren't necessary , that depends on a game , for BF it does add a lot , new vehicles , weapons and maps.
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i keep asking this, how is pirating games different from food or car theft? nobody has a genuine answer thus the whole thing is theft
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If I steal your food, you don't get to eat it. That's where your analogy falls apart.
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Unless the devs don't make enough to break even. then they don't get to eat..
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But the argument wasn't whether or not they get to eat.
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That was in response to the whole "If I steal your food, you don't get to eat it. That's where your analogy falls apart."
I'm just sayin', I don't like how piracy is seen as a victimless crime because the product is digital.
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"Unless the person has no money left, he can always buy more food to eat."
You see now, how "eating" has nothing to do with the argument? There are victims, but they are different crimes.
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I was playing into the analogy, but yes, it is an over exaggeration. While the success or failure of a game (directly linked to piracy) does have a drastic effect on someone's life, it probably would not take away all possible food sources.
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That first part was in response to c4rm0n4's, but never mind.
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"While the success or failure of a game (directly linked to piracy) " That's wrong, and it's been proved wrong by several studies. Highly pirated games have been hugely successful, and games that weren't pirated a lot still failed. Again, you can't assume that a pirated copy is a copy that wasn't sold, because for the most cases, that isn't true.
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Care to link those studies? How do they determine how many copies were pirated, and then directly link them to a sale? Or is it just a correlative assumption?
How can you prove "in most cases?" Surely you cannot believe that ALL or even HALF of games illegally downloaded lead to a sale.
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That's also a fallacy, because you're assuming that people who pirate a game would buy it if they couldn't pirate it. Pirated copies are not copies that where not sold. Most people who pirate games wouldn't buy them if suddenly pirating became impossible.
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The number of sales would most definitely increase if no one had the ability to download games illegally. I have pirated a game, and then bought it. But that does not mean that everyone who pirates eventually will purchase that game, and there are certainty titles that I have pirated and not payed for.
It is equally fallacious to say - people who pirate don't pay for a game, so therefore most pirates will not pay for a game if they could no longer illegally download it.
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you steal a game, they dont take ur money yet you get THEIR part, that's theft
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Again, you're assuming that if someone doesn't pirate a game, then they buy it. That's a fallacy, it just doesn't follow.
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You wouldn't download a car
Also, on a very technical term, car theft is stealing the original and piracy is creating a copy of the original.
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but you are not allowed to create a copy, devs put the price 60$ (example) you dont pay you dont get, just ANY other thing in life, food, cars, clothes, anything, it's about taking something that costs money but for free
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You buy all your movies and series 2? Never downloaded a movie or watched a free stream?
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Only the homemade ones, and even then only a small fraction is really free. Otherwise the actresses (no matter how bad they act) are all doing it as their job. If you just watch those movies that they star in, without buying them, it's technically the same as pirating a game. Just that you might not have downloaded it and simply watched it on a website instead.
So, considering that pretty much everyone, or at least most people, have watched porn online without paying for it atleast once in their life, they are all pirates. Making most of those claiming that pirating games is like the end of the world hypocrites, since most of those have done the same, just with porn instead of a game.
The same thing goes for most music on YouTube or similar sites. Sure, you're not doing anything illegal by watching it there, but the uploader did, unless it's either the band itself who uploaded the song or if the uploader have the legal rights to actually upload it. So even watching (or listening) to one of those songs uploaded by someone who didn't have the legal rights to upload it is pirating as well. At least technically.
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Pirating something is creating a copy of an item. It does not prevent someone else from using that particular item.
Stealing an item makes it impossible for someone else to use that particular item.
Piracy hurts developers & publishers when it removes potential sales. If someone who would not buy the game (movie, song, book and so on) who for one reason or another would not buy it (not able to due to economic means, local restrictions and so on), then that would not result in a lost sale, thus it would not hurt the developer or publisher.
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That's been proved before. Piracy DOESN'T hurt devs and publishers, at least not as bad as people think, and in some cases it even improves sales.
A pirated copy isn't a lost sale. It really isn't, in most cases. The majority of those who pirate a game had no intention to buy it in the first place.
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I think, piracy of games is important! For example, I live in Germany and Publishers often cut games here because of legal reasons. In some cases they make activation of games impossible (e.g. because of violence or swastikas and other symbols). But this is not necessary as you can play international consonle versions, but not the steam version. In these cases you have to use a pirated version ;)
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Really? Well, every publisher goes GOG? No, they use f***ing steam. This sucks, as you no cannot run retail games legally bought.
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Some games even not are published here --> go pirate. It's as easy as this.
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pirating games sucks, imho living in a country with censorship is just an excuse, there are just very few games you cant get in germany.
its even possible to redeem hatred without much trouble.
i stopped pirating games since i got enough money to afford them legally... i pay quite some $ on games, but thats okay. Since i know how much work they put in, and everybody works for a living. If someone could pirate the software i am working on, that would be really sad...
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I also earn enough money, can afford games ... I am a fan of Wolfenstein ... there is no way using them here beside VPN (what's against Steam's terms) ... No one can blame someone if he buys German version and plays pirated Version , as he cannot activate original ROW (!) version. My opinion. Ever heard German translation of that game? Really sad, I am sorry for the developers, but it is the task of the publisher to know the laws in "restricted countries" and make the right decicions - not publishing in that country (and so not be blamed for something) would be the right way. Doppelmoral is the German word for that. Or can someone explain why I can import PS4, etc. versions of that games and play them without any problems? Right, there is no explanation.
Andere Beispiele sind Saints Row 2, South Park, Dying Light, Dead Island ... alles schöne Titel, die ich mir aus dem Ausland (Frankreich) schicken lassen kann, die aber manchmal einfach nicht nutzbar sind.
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so you are a nazi ? argueing with wolfenstein is pretty... stupid
the game is pretty much uncut, except the swastikas got replaced.
So you have all the gore and all the violence, but you argue with pirating because you can't see symbols that are forbidden by your law?
the translation is pretty decent. actually its one of the best for several years.
so i have uncut copies of Saints Row 2, South Park, Dying Light, Dead Island ... on my german account...
there is still not much sense in your argumentation tbh
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I also have uncut copies of these games ... some I had to activate via VPN. This really sucks, because steam can ban an account because of violenting their terms. They don't do by now, but maybe in the future ?!?
In former times I bought my games on a disc and was able to activate or use them, no matter where I lived. Today many games use steam and don't offer an alternative way enjoying them. That's where the problem is located.
They have no reason not allowing activation of international version of games. As long as they don't sell it in Germany, they act according to the laws. But not allowing to activate them and play them with a german IP ist a little bit too much. There is now law here that justifies this behaviour. I am 34 years old, old enough to decide if I can bear violence level of international versions and old enough to distinguish between good and evil. This is why I am against censorship. No one has to infantilise me. This is why I suggest an DRM-free a.k.a. pirated version.
And about these actual Wolfenstein games. My deep and inner attitude tells me that I prefer to fight Nazis and not any shitty "Regime". But it is not the main problem. I can accept that there are no swastikas and others symbols (although they are legal by law in Germany for culture and documentary reasons and art - and this is what games are: art) . But the translation isn't decent, sorry, it is crap. There are some translation errors that are not good for narration and story telling. I cannot understand why people speaking polish in original have to speak German in German version. And why Blazkowicz excuses that his Polish isn't very good - in both versions, the International and the German. This makes no sense at all. In the end, some people like the original language in games (i can recommend in thief 1&2!). Wolfenstein The New Order lacks English language because there are changes in the story. Rest of the world can play in English if they want.
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i didnt have to redeem any games over vpn. in fact its violating steams user agreement.
you in fact risk your steam account for games you could redeem without vpn lol...
but yeah russian keys are cheap and stuff :)
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No russian key in my steam account ;) Just imagine this. You live in Austria, buy a game. You move to Germany and cannot play anymore. See the problem? I don't think so ...
And I am talking about Saints Row 2 ... quote by schnittberichte.com
Deutsche Spieler, die im Besitz einer unzensierten PC-Version sind, können diese mit ihrem deutschen Steam-Account nicht aktivieren. Im Forum von THQ Deutschland heißt es in einer offiziellen Stellungnahme: "Aufgrund der geltenden Jugendschutzbestimmungen darf in Deutschland nur die von der USK geprüfte deutsche Version von Saints Row 2 (dt.) angeboten und verkauft werden. Daher lässt sich über Steam in Deutschland nur die USK-Version aktivieren. Die internationale PEGI-Version kann über einen deutschen Steam-Account NICHT aktiviert werden. Die US-amerikanische Importversion des Spiels lässt sich bei Steam ausschließlich in den USA, Kanada und Mexiko aktivieren."
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austria is the same region as germany, so its possible to gift games without "cross-region-trading" ... sooo if you live in austria and move you should be pretty much able to play all your games. I activated a Saints Row 2 gift years ago, dont know if something changed though.
most of my violent games are gifts from switzerland and austria
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What you say is right, in general. But in case of Wolfenstein it is wrong. No activating, no running, no trading.
Sorry, I have to mention it again. Maybe this will be the new behaviour is publishers in future, and it starts with this game.
And: it would be easy for steam to start an age verification tool that can handle games on the "index" (not the forbidden ones)... for example by "postident" - looks like they don't want that.
Conclusion: I don't support piracy in general. But if it is too hard "to be the good guy", it is justified to download a game. Everything has its borders and if they don't want my money ... I have better to do with my time than finding a solution obtaining a game
Only my personal opinion
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I think there was no game that I prated and didn't bought afterwards since Borderlands.
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If any digital industry in the world is deserving of piracy, it's the gaming industry. The way they treat us, their customers, is so bad, it's almost like they're asking for it. (Granted, not all developers are like that, but most are).
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Boy, you are very disconnected from the gaming industry as a whole.
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but, i want to pirate their games in pc and they are console only titles... they make me sad.
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While I consider Nintendo the best (and, well, the only "real") console maker, their anti-piracy an IP-protection methods are by far the most insane, ridiculous and overbearing in the whole industry. If they could, they would sue your for posting a Yoshi fan-art in Twitter or humming the Mario tune in YT.
I love them and would very much love to own many of their consoles and games, but boy, their lawyers make UbiSoft + EA + Sony + Capcom put together tame.
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Take a look at WB and Take Two (Mainly Evolve). They're just as bad lately.
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WB? what about them? and evolve? seriously? nobody plays that crap, not Day 1 not Day 2
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Warner Brothers. Well just take a look at Batman Arkham Knight and the plethora of DLC/pre-order stuff that game has, it's at the point where you need a spreadsheet to see what edition gets you what, the season pass is overpriced, etc.
And yeah there's a reason for nobody playing that game, it's DLC was announced before the game, it had dlc on day one whose price added together was more than the game itself.
There's a lot of publishers that are on par with EA and Ubisoft with the amount of bullshit they do.
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But still, you want to play it? If you don't like what companies do, you have to have the strengh to ignore them and their products. Everything else is doubled standart.
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I agree with that, in some degree. I for example wouldn't touch AC: Unity with a virtual machine. But I understand people who use pirated games and I see their point as well.
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I used to pirate games, but stopped few years ago...
But...
Many people from my country have about $300-$350 salary (some even less), so pirating is the only way to get newer games, since prices are same for pretty much whole Europe... And even some older ones when not on very, very big sales...
As you can see on my account I play only older and/or cheaper games, and it is ok, I love those... But some of us wants to play AAA titles, and I completely understand pirating in that instance...
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Not all games about the initial 3 months of people shooting each other in the face in the same boring online death matches or hunting the same zombies in the same arenas before the lobbies clear out for the next similar game.
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Tell that to Titanfall devs :P
For me, the hype plays a big role in new releases. Because that's only where I hear about those games since I never play them.
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It's not all about the hype :p If it is then what was the point in buying it anyway?
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Yeah, I know. I don't really play AAA titles, but I find it dissapointing that when I finally get to play one, all my friends are like "we don't care", "that's so 3 days ago, now it's all about ---".
I'm an ancient pirate, and the only games that I pirated that I don't have are Sims 3, Skyrim, and Dark Souls.
I've never lauched Skyrim yet, I couldn't get Dark Souls to launch, and I don't want to give my money to EA.
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I do that; but I live alone with my wife and have a fine job... But, let's take an example;
An ordinary family of 4, with $700 per month. You need about $150 for bills (electricity, heating, phone, cable, etc...); Another (at least) $300 for groceries (I guess, it all depends on habits); Public transportation per month for adults is $30 per person, and $10 for children (Let's say $80 per month); Car fuel depends on habits, buy I spend (I don't drive too much) about $30 per month; Depending on situation/time of year you need; clothes, dishes, furniture, house appliances, books for children (for school), travel, car service, etc... Roughly (again, it depends on many, many things), let's say $100 per month (probably more if you want to travel abroad, but at least that)... It all goes up to about $600-650 for somewhat comfortable life... Do you think anyone can give even $10 for a game on sale in that situation?
edit; I see you are from Norway. I've never been there but I read that Norway is pretty expensive, with good salaries... But, I travelled to Czech, Italy, Spain, and prices for groceries and commonly needed stuff are the same as here, with 2-3 times higher salaries... Also, here we have people working for less than minimum wages (without any papers)... Btw, minimum wage is less than $200...
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2-3 times higher salaries on Spain?... Sure, dude, please, tell me more.
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According to this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage it's even more than that...
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The table/map is not accurate. I live in Greece and it says that average is 1004€, which is not, so i think they only count politicians, public workers wages? i don't know.
Minimun salary was 510€ last time i heard. I get 330€ per month, working 6 hours per day, for 6 days per week.
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Probably an old information on wiki... Just saw it says 2013... Both Greece and Spain are in financial crysis...
Anyway, not really important; That just increases the number of people (countries) with the same or similar problems...
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games aren't food, you can live without them, just because you cant afford them, doesnt mean it justifies theft :v
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There is a great difference between theft and pirating...
Although, I do agree that one should buy a game when possible (financially), I also think that it is ok to pirate a game if you are not able to buy it... The company, making games is losing nothing since you won't give them money anyway...
And I'm talking about majority of people in country, not about those that are the poorest...
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if you dont pay but still GET the game, the company is losing 60$...
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I am talking about majority of people that are not able to give 20% of monthly salary for one game... So, if you are never going to buy a game, either way, company is losing nothing...
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And what about Games you cant get the legal way in your country? Hatred for example. You cant buy it in germany. you cant even activate it. So its ok to pirate it?
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Legally not, it's still pirating. Morally? Probably yes - TBH as far as I heard about it it's not worth buying and shipping a retail, drm-free copy of it, so you don't really have any other choice.
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Great way to make a poll and tell everyone what you think they should vote.
Also, "put ads in the pirated games". You must really have a pleasantly simple life.
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Steam never stopped piracy and never will, its just a better legal alternative
Alsi those poll questions...really? You are soo disconnected from reality, its hilarious
These whole ads in games thing never worked out well for devs, people would just rip off the ads and upload those versions on pirate sites
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Fyi I pirated a shitload of game BUT i bought most of them on steam, heck even retail copies too. With close to 800 games already, I have not much desire to pirate, unless I wanna test a game
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If you're really broke, I think it's okay to pirate them - before I had the means (never heard about bundles, sales, no way to purchase online) and no money of my own to spend on games, I downloaded them. Since the start of university I downloaded less and less, nowadays only sometimes I download one like every month to test them, then forget about them before even testing :) Also, bought all Fallouts, Elder Scrolls (I've enjoyed them tremendously when pirated, the least I could do it to buy them - better late than never.
And another massage for the torrent users: If you can't buy any game to play, it's okay to download. If you can run the newest AAA games... I'm not sure if you can count as "broke" with that system... anyways, just please, don't brag about essentially stealing the product, be it digital or not. There's some terrrible mentality going on in Hungary, claiming that It's digital content, it's copieable, so it's not a theft, because the original stays there... some people can even ridicule you for buying a game instead of just downloading it
( Little inside info: besides Hungary is corrupt as ****, making a cut of the tax monies kind of disappear in the system, the terrible taxing-mentality is one of the main causes that we have one of the highest VAT-like tax on every single item that's being sold in the country - 27%. [This means that if you buy an item for 100 hungarian forint, at least 27 of it is tax. In case of petrol/fuel it's even more])
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"If you can run the newest AAA games... I'm not sure if you can count as "broke" with that system" Just wanna say that as some one with a fairly decent PC I bought last year, I then fell ill and lost my job, so now I am actually broke for the most part. Just because someone has a smart phone or a nice computer doesn't always mean they've got money, some also spent years saving up to get these things, or have fallen on hard times since buying those items. But yeah I agree with the pirating if you're broke thing, as long as if you really enjoyed a game you'd buy it when it did go on sale or you had the money.
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Of course, I can't really count generally with these situations, when someone loses his/her job - I don't want ot play the morally superior role, just as I mentioned, this is what I see in Hungary :\ (Hope you'll get along nicely :) )
There was also a point in 2010 when I had to use a much older laptop because I've killed mine with tea (never, never again....) and actually it was a good time to pick up older games and try them, because I couldn't run newer ones - some people dislikes older games because simply "it's so old lol" and this is the reason they only play with new ones. Sometimes an outside force's (being broke, or weak system) incfluence can be used as a positive thing, to get to know new things ( I've played flash games for years, this is the reason I like puzzle-platformers and arcade games). But seriously, I really hope you'll get better (if you're still sick) and financially as well. Being kind of broke as a student is kind of understandable, but losing a job is not a fun thing.
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That's fine, I wasn't trying to be nasty or say that what you see never happens, cause I'm sure it does, but I did feel the need to point out there are other situations too. :)
Older games are a lot of fun, and I do have plenty I haven't played but am slowly getting around to, lately though there are a few games related to series I've loved that I really want to play and if I did get around to pirating them I'm 100% sure I would buy them when I had the money.
Thank you for hoping I'll get better, sadly this is a lifetime illness I have so I'll never be totally better just have better months than others :) Being broke as a student isn't a fun thing either! I've been there, done that lol. I am at least getting a small amount from the government because I'm sick and out of work and a caregiver for my mother, but hey I'm still alive and kicking and still have a few dollars I can save up for games I like, so yay for the little things in life!! :)
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Yeah... great poll. Been discussed few times in here.
Digital industry deserves piracy. Their claims on "losing" money is stupid. If someone pirate game he wouldn't buy it anyway. And if he would buy it because hype and game is crap then piracy is safety measure against hype bs as well.
Burned myself too many times. Never buy again unless i know i want game in my collection. Hell, I bought many games I played in past just to have them in my collection.
Drop insane amount of $$ from marketing and you'll see more profit from good games.
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"If someone pirate game he wouldn't buy it anyway."
No. Wrong.
"And if he would buy it because hype and game is crap then piracy is safety measure against hype bs as well."
If he does not read reviews it is his fault.
"Drop insane amount of $$ from marketing and you'll see more profit from good games."
No. The big consumership can only be informed by marketing. You also can't create your loved "hype" without marketing.
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Some people would just prefer to have a demo of a game before they decide to invest money in it. A lot of games just don't have demos anymore. If a free 'demo' is available somewhere and you only intend to use it temporarily, why not?
Of course, there are people that will download the whole game with no intention of paying for it, and in the majority of cases, I can't defend them for that, but I don't really condemn it either. With a lot of AAA games money's being printer anyway, and with the nonsense major companies push out - especially regarding DRM -, it's not much of a surprise that some people aren't inclined to support them. It's a shame it really hurts the indie industry in particular.
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like reviews mean anything, 90% of them is bought anyway, where have you been last few years? Everything you said is just plain wrong.
Do some research before thinking you know it all. If the game is really good it just sells well based on that, friends recommend it to friends etc,
all those successfull indie games have no marketing whatsover and they sold well because they were good ie minecraft, bastion, terraria, PoE.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2604197 Read it.
TL:DR "While users of kino.to decreased their levels of piracy consumption by 30% during the four weeks following the intervention, their consumption through licensed movie platforms increased by only 2.5%. Taken at face value, these results indicate that the intervention mainly converted consumer surplus into deadweight loss. If we were to take the costs of the intervention into account, our results would suggest that the shutdown of kino.to has not had a positive effect on overall welfare" So no, people that pirate and dont buy games, wouldnt buy them if they couldn't pirate it either, it's the same for all digital goods in general.
That's all facts, I challenge you to make your statements anything else than an opinion.
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90% are lies. Of course. And the government lies to us all the time. And the media is controlled by the government. Sure. "I challenge you to make your statements anything else than an opinion".
Anyways, take a look at Game Dev Tycoon. I guess, the players who got the game at release were hyped for the game. Therefore, they really wanted it- so people who are just bored and therefore illegally download games are excluded mostly.
So this statistics shows, that 93,6% of the players illegally downloaded the game at release. Even though it was just 8$ and an indie game which you seemingly like so much. So the game was apparently "really good" and thus should "sell well" in your point of view. It did not. Even if it was indie, had a demo, was DRM-free.
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did you even read what i posted? that report is from European Union social research institute, and it's technically made by "goverment"
Game Dev Tycoon didn't sell cause it was crap. You apparently have reading comprehension problems, and are impossible to argue with in a sensible manner, im done. Just read the rest of your other posts, not only stupid but a hypocrite, why did I even bother?
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"If someone pirate game he wouldn't buy it anyway."
He's completely right, and it has been statistically proved.
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Pirated some games when i was young but now i make some money(even not so much) i always buy not only the games but every digital good, windows, antivirus, etc. I feel good when i pay to someone for their services. This feeling comes to gifting to, some people feel good when they offer a free game even to a stranger, but the key word... if is truly on need to have this game... im not looking to wealthy people.
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i love those "Pirating Games" since sid meyers priates ;-)
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If you asked me about buying games 5 years ago, i'd straight up say no and just pirate it. Now it's a completely different story.
Honestly I still do it just to see if it's any good, but with the whole refund coming in I think theres no need for that anymore.
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Stupid logic: I only pirate cuz I cant wait until morning to get a game.
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i pirate games when i feel like doing it (to try it as a demo, not enough money to buy it on release, test if the pc runs it). same with music, programs and movies. i don't feel obliged to pay for stuff, nor do i make others feel bad for not doing it.
of course sometimes it's good to buy some games, specially those titles that give you endless hours of fun and you feel like the developers did a good job.
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Thats the best excuse to pirate games, a try before you buy policy. Where are honest to GABEN the demos these days? Stardock has done actually rather well out of the policy of not giving a shit about piracy and finding out that a fair percentage of their customers are ones who've pirated their games in the past to try them before they buy.
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I've pirated games that I bought, because the DRM wouldn't let me play my brand new legal copy.
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Thats one of reasons why gaming industry deserves piracy. Screwing over all paying customers, because they don't want to "lose" money to piracy... How retarded is that?
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lol, reminds me of movie dvds with those unskippable intros and warnings.
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Try pausing, playing then hit the skip button to go straight to the main menu. Recently learned the tip and it has worked on all the movies I have tried it on.
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This is actually the only reason of piracing that I can support. If you bought something and it does not work, then you may just get it in other ways imo. Also for the Bluray discs- if you buy them legally and then see that you cannot play them on PC due to some copyright stuff, then ,I guess, you may just download the movie.
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Makes sense. You already on a copy of the product that YOU'VE paid for. Can't use the copy you bought? Pirate the damn thing. You own a legal copy of it, nothing wrong there. Right?
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THIS^. Ever had no internet and couldnt play/download your games? Or what about games so old you cant find copy of, unless paying RIDICULOUS amount of money? How about 150$ for Battle for Middle-Earth? (Im not even joking.) And not every game is available on Steam.
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Yep! If you buy a car and id does not work, then you may just go and steal the exact same car =)
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Piracy, it's to make a copy. Stealing, it's taking the thing in question.
Sorry to break your analogy.
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nope, the game has a price in exchange for 60$, you get product for free without paying 60$ ? just like stealing food from grocery store, just like stealing a car from the shop, it's the same scenario :v
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Yeah, piracy hurts the wallet of the devs, but the thing in question is "still there" to sell. It's like renting a car only to make a copy of it.
I guess I can talk about emulation. It's illegal unless you own the original game you're playing. Eheh.
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Piracy, it's to make a copy. Stealing, it's taking the thing in question.
EXACTLY! Finally, someone with brain.
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---NOTE--- Not everyone can afford games, my opinion doesn't regard to poor people, i just hate it when people with money and enough money to afford the pirated games just doesn't have a feeling for the devs
Is it normal to pirate games?
I think it 's a huge mistake you shouldn't take.
I pirated one game and after one day i buyed it on Steam.
I never pirate a game to try out, i only pirate it if there is no possibility at that moment ( maybe cuz it's night ) to buy the game, next morning i pay the game or donate a bit to the developers.
If u are a game addict like me then don't go to pirate but reconsider to get games from here or from bundle sites, pay a little more for a bundle if it makes your day better.
Stop pirating and reply to the poll please!
And maybe give this thread a bump if you agree with me
Even if you pirate a game to look if it's fun, and it turns out it's plain crappish junk will it still be normal to buy the game if it's not that expensive, otherwise you can donate 10 euro as example to the company and you won't do that to show off how good you are from inside no it's your own mentality which is important.
Read this please:
As example: I make a game, i hire people, i make connections with advertisers, copyright owners i buy content, i have to pay for several bills and a lot more stuff that comes with making and publishing a game.
It's like walking in a cinema getting through the security and watching a film and than go outside and it turns out its crap, or you like it and you don't give money for the entertaiment.
It's a shame to do that....
Maybe it is the age of the average player or is maybe the bad mentality of people at this time of life or there is no respect for developers anymore
Thumbs up for the people that are doing right and playing fair.
---- > SOME VERY USEFULL POSTS < ----
@JBlacknight
I like watching all these people who try to defend pirating saying it's not stealing when in fact it is. It doesn't matter how you spin it, it's always stealing.
@myself
'Yes and i have a couple of 40 euro games but i have record of 10 hour max on them while i have played ten times more small games, even 1 euro games are awesome!
I'm a dutch guy but my car later won't be a flagship like the witcher 3 is at the moment for gaming, i can't drive a maserati gran turismo S right from the auto dealer and say 'THANKS MAN just trying out maybe i'll see you next week if i have time and enjoyed the ride' there a appointments in life and norms and values which some people prefer and don't prefer but in a community of civilians should you learn to think also about other people and their hard work on games.
I'm also not very rich, i'm still gathering money with working as a student at the carwash for more than a year to get a decent computer and maybe some people in other poor countries would have to work 4 years for such computer than such computer is not compatible with such a life, try to focus on other things in life and make it fun!'
@Fatality92
Putting a file on internet is like putting your 1500$ new TV in the middle of a street and expect to find it there tomorrow.
Don't get me wrong, i don't support pirating but still there are situation where i find it legitimate: for example if the prices are not considering the region you live. It's kind of wrong making pay 50$ a game in a country where the medium salary is 200$. I think it's also legitimate if you have doubts about the system requirements. These are often wrong and you can play very well even above the minimum requirements, but not always so this being tricky about S.R. makes you often waste money.
But most of all, there are some laws (luckilly) that protects your privacy.
Dev can't really control you in any way and it would be morally wrong, but also if i'm a legitimate owner i would feel treated like a thief.
Steam can't ban an account in which there have been spent money. It would be like you steal that TV in the middle of the street and then the owner comes and takes it away, togheter with your computer, your phone, some chairs and your stereo.
New Steam Refund Policy: http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
Sorry for my bad english i'm not native english
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