Pirating, what should be the result?
Lots of people saying that pirating is the only way for them to try games that might not work? Might have held water in 2010, folks, but with GoG's and Steam's refund policies, that's no longer an excuse. Sure, there might be game-breaking bugs more than two hours in (this still doesn't apply to GoG), but that's what actually reading reviews is for, not to mention patches and updates.
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I think of pirating games as playing the demo. As I always end up getting the game on steam. And there are never achievements or online play etc. And pirated version do not get auto-updated and can have bugs.
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Your opinion and someone with a similar opinion compared to yours seem to have more consideration to bet put in the main post... but none of the ones that said that piracy is INDEED BAD BUT ALSO GOOD are in your post... coincidence? naa. You opened this thread just to get the answers that you wanted , piracy IS a good thing when there is no demo for a game and if the game turns out to be complete crap i do NOT pay for it , because it's crap.
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It's really simple, If you like and enjoy a game, you must pay it. It's like eating on a restaurant, if you eat their food, you must pay for that.
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OP created this thread to get the answers he/she wanted. Also, in some "useful" post, he/she mentioned only answer which said how piracy is bad, theft, unholy, etc. coincidence? I think not...
To OP: Dude, remember, There is no black and white, everything is grey.
Majority of game companies are becoming greedy and not thinking about consumers, but about money, money and money only. I think they deserve the punishment, piracy is one way of doing that. but as I said, sometimes good guys gets punished(THQ)...
Don't jugde people from your perspective, because reality changes with different perspective.
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So there are apparently 5% SG users who think pirates should be reported to the government. Didn't know SG was so popular in North Korea.
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i don't pirate anymore, but i am not strictly against it. if someone wants to pirate games, then he should just go ahead. we already know that pirating can even be benificial to sales (as strange as that may sound).
also, i may pirate games again, since there are cases where the publishers make it completely impossible for me to legally obtain the version i want. wolfenstein the new order and old blood are good examples. they added a geolock for germany. a play lock. so there is no way for me to play those games, except if i buy the censored german version, which has only german language. but that is not acceptable for me. so the facts are: they won't see any money from me for old blood (bought new order german edition, big mistake...), they actively prevent me from giving them my money. honestly, i don't see anything wrong with pirating that game.
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My friends plays pirated games all the time, I on the other hand never play pirated games.
I guess it's because I'm part of the Game-Dev community myself that I have more strong feelings about it. Also I'm kind of a game collector so to speak and I love to have those games listed in my account and to be able to earn achievements etc.
Also in my opinion it's too much of a hassle to go through and usually you miss out on stuff/features because of it and I correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you also have to manually download and apply patches to the game which also sucks. I do understand why people do it though. Since there aren't many demo's available on steam and many releases recently have been shite (MK:X, AC:U etc.) so it's better to try something out to see if you like it or that it's working properly before you spent your hard earned cash on it. Also I've heard that it's even simpler to pirate some games than to get them legally (Uplay games come to mind) and of course some people simply don't have the money and want to try certain games out. Imho devs should release more free demo's before the actual game's release on steam so people can try their stuff out, I think it would lessen piracy significantly and ofcourse the extra DRM shit from companies like Ubisoft should be less obnoxious, steam DRM is more than enough, why make it harder for your buying playerbase to play the actual game?
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regarding demos:
while having a demo is always nice, i understand why they are not needed as much as in the past. back when we only had a few pictures in a review to judge whether we would like a game or not, demos were the way to make sure. now we have the internet and youtube. so not only can we read so many more opinions on a game, we also can have a look at the gameplay in videos. that is very different from the old methods. and i personally didn't install a demo in years. i just don't need them anymore. i know, people will argue now that videos are not the same as playing ("feeling") a game. and that might be kind of true. but my point is: we are much closer to knowing if we will like a game or not without playing it than we were 20 years ago. and if the money and time needed to make a demo is rather used on fixing some more bugs before release, then i am completely fine with it.
i don't think the majority of pirates downloads games only to test them. in fact only very few people do that. most pirate to play. and i strongly believe, most people who post on the forums that they will buy the full version later, just never do that.
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Well with the lackluster releases lately I think most people have lost faith in major releases i think now is the time to reintroduce demos again.
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this is nothing youtube doesn't cover. just watch totalbiscuits videos (e.g. port report) or others, and you will know if a game is full of bugs, has horrible performance or just shitty gameplay. don't you think?
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Not everyone has the wonderful pc that TB has though. I think it's fair to allow people to try for themselves.
Some games run amazing on some cards and absolute shite on others.
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there is not only TB out there. if you look at the information the internet has to offer, you have to admit that it is quite easy to find out of a game runs well on your system or not. most certainly faster than downloading and playing a demo. ;)
i never said i am against demos. i just personally don't need them. and if a studio invests one more week into fixing bugs instead of making a demo, then i can even see something positive in the absence of demos for today's games.
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You personally don't need them? That's great. :s
I'd prefer a demo over a shitty let's play any day though. Sure there's lots of people begging you to watch them play games but I'd rather not wade through the river of crap to find someone I like. Even the great TB gets annoying at times, I can't stand his pacing in some videos and yet he is someone I'm subscribed to and for a very long time at that. Besides watching the game is nowhere near the same as playing it, you don't get to feel it, see how it's responds or whether or not you simply like it. People don't just want to demo for bugs.
The new refund policy essentially turns the entire game into a demo provided you play less than 2 hours and ask for the return in less than 2 weeks. So devs won't have to spend time or money making a specialised demo, at least not for steam.
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i guess we agree to disagree then. ;)
i am not yet sure if using the refund system as an alternative for demos will work. if you do that a lot, they might consider this abuse. we'll see.
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Fair enough.
Hopefully not too many devs will give us a reason to do so.
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No.
Like I said it should be before the game's release (as in 2/3 weeks before release) instead of at the same time or after it's release. Also I know alot of people (including me) who'd like a demo just to feel a bit safer about the purchase and I also know alot of people who actually use the pirated version of the game as demo, they play about 4/5 hours and then buy the game if it meets their expectations.
Finally your own opinion weighs heavier then someone else's, while I value TB's and Angryjoe's opinion's f.i. I don't rely on them as I disagree with them on occasions (as is expected as everyone's thought pattern is different). The only alternative we have now is the refund sytem like mentioned above but it's far from a perfect or even good solution as you have to go through alot of hassle to get your refund, steam may do something about your account and say "you have been abusing the sytem", only works on products bought on steam itself and the 2 hours after purchase limitation is also far from perfect.
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I think a lot of bad publishers & devs blame piracy for their bad sales which quite simply isn't the case.
If you make a good game people are going to want to own it. This means not being full of bugs, being fun, looking good and not having DRM which locks you out from being able to play the product purchased. Quite a few devs also set the bar too high. Tomb Raider sold 3.4 million copies and yet it was considered a failure. I really wouldn't be surprised if a lot of publishers were viewing games like this and that is pretty insane.
Now there's a decent refund policy on steam I honestly believe there will be less piracy because people will be able to demo a game again and not feel like they've wasted £20 - £40 on a shitty unfinished product when they realise what they've actually bought. Heck it might even boost sales for the great games out there if people start buying to try but remember steam went 10 years without this policy, old habits die hard. Some devs might pull their products from steam because of this new policy, if they have something to hide you probably don't want to be buying their games in the first place.
If piracy was that much of a problem, I doubt there were be as many indie devs around. It would be unsustainable for them. Though Indie devs often seem to have the most support and love for their games. Personally some of the best experiences I've had have been through indie games (Bastion, Binding of Isaac, Brothers, Hatoful Boyfriend, etc) but also some of the worst (Godus, Day One : Garry's Incident, The Slaughtering Grounds, etc).
I agree that on the whole pirating is wrong but sometimes there's just no way around it.
I disagree that people should be condemning others for pirating though.
Pirates gonna pirate no matter what anyway. They don't care.
Where there's no sale, there's no lost sale.
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---NOTE--- Not everyone can afford games, my opinion doesn't regard to poor people, i just hate it when people with money and enough money to afford the pirated games just doesn't have a feeling for the devs
Is it normal to pirate games?
I think it 's a huge mistake you shouldn't take.
I pirated one game and after one day i buyed it on Steam.
I never pirate a game to try out, i only pirate it if there is no possibility at that moment ( maybe cuz it's night ) to buy the game, next morning i pay the game or donate a bit to the developers.
If u are a game addict like me then don't go to pirate but reconsider to get games from here or from bundle sites, pay a little more for a bundle if it makes your day better.
Stop pirating and reply to the poll please!
And maybe give this thread a bump if you agree with me
Even if you pirate a game to look if it's fun, and it turns out it's plain crappish junk will it still be normal to buy the game if it's not that expensive, otherwise you can donate 10 euro as example to the company and you won't do that to show off how good you are from inside no it's your own mentality which is important.
Read this please:
As example: I make a game, i hire people, i make connections with advertisers, copyright owners i buy content, i have to pay for several bills and a lot more stuff that comes with making and publishing a game.
It's like walking in a cinema getting through the security and watching a film and than go outside and it turns out its crap, or you like it and you don't give money for the entertaiment.
It's a shame to do that....
Maybe it is the age of the average player or is maybe the bad mentality of people at this time of life or there is no respect for developers anymore
Thumbs up for the people that are doing right and playing fair.
---- > SOME VERY USEFULL POSTS < ----
@JBlacknight
I like watching all these people who try to defend pirating saying it's not stealing when in fact it is. It doesn't matter how you spin it, it's always stealing.
@myself
'Yes and i have a couple of 40 euro games but i have record of 10 hour max on them while i have played ten times more small games, even 1 euro games are awesome!
I'm a dutch guy but my car later won't be a flagship like the witcher 3 is at the moment for gaming, i can't drive a maserati gran turismo S right from the auto dealer and say 'THANKS MAN just trying out maybe i'll see you next week if i have time and enjoyed the ride' there a appointments in life and norms and values which some people prefer and don't prefer but in a community of civilians should you learn to think also about other people and their hard work on games.
I'm also not very rich, i'm still gathering money with working as a student at the carwash for more than a year to get a decent computer and maybe some people in other poor countries would have to work 4 years for such computer than such computer is not compatible with such a life, try to focus on other things in life and make it fun!'
@Fatality92
Putting a file on internet is like putting your 1500$ new TV in the middle of a street and expect to find it there tomorrow.
Don't get me wrong, i don't support pirating but still there are situation where i find it legitimate: for example if the prices are not considering the region you live. It's kind of wrong making pay 50$ a game in a country where the medium salary is 200$. I think it's also legitimate if you have doubts about the system requirements. These are often wrong and you can play very well even above the minimum requirements, but not always so this being tricky about S.R. makes you often waste money.
But most of all, there are some laws (luckilly) that protects your privacy.
Dev can't really control you in any way and it would be morally wrong, but also if i'm a legitimate owner i would feel treated like a thief.
Steam can't ban an account in which there have been spent money. It would be like you steal that TV in the middle of the street and then the owner comes and takes it away, togheter with your computer, your phone, some chairs and your stereo.
New Steam Refund Policy: http://store.steampowered.com/steam_refunds/
Sorry for my bad english i'm not native english
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