Supporting the idea?
It's said there they should use the same system. One can support one while disapproving the other.
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A level/badge system purely for show and a level/badge system used as a basis for rules to exclude people in giveaways are not the same thing, no. My problem with the CV system is not that it shows how much games were shovelled in the site but the associated giveaway-level system that came with it. Statistical numbers, I like.
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They do, but SGTools is a 3rd party site that has restriction rules which are not part of the current SG exclusion system, nor (to my knowledge) ever will be. It is a good site for those who want to make up their own personal rules for giveaways. And IMO it would be better if it was the only possible way to restrict giveaways on this scale.
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Because once everyone's bare ass is visible at the same time, then people get embarrassed and start to stare less at the others' asses.
Or, if you want a simpler association: you can constantly compare your dick size to others when you have pants on, but when everyone has to get those pants off and the socks stuffed in your underwear fall off, then you will suddenly stop talking about the dicks of others.
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They throw a hissy fit or eventually grow the fuck up and learn that smaller children receive more presents before they learn to appreciate the intentions more than the material value. Which is something one needs to learn in society as it is not something born with us, just sadly a lot of parents living in a completely material-oriented world never learnt themselves.
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You're heavily using levels. Why would you want to take it away and replace it with nothing?
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I'm using levels only in my other experiment. 90% of my public giveaways are level 0.
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90% of my public giveaways are level 0
Much better than having 90% of your giveaways public level 0 :-)
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That number should be around 60-62%. I am aiming at 67% public with 50-60% level 0 public for my global stats right now.
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It's unfortunate there's no way to see these numbers, something like this could have been awesome. I'm really curious to see my stats, but I'm not aware of any option other than keeping a spreadsheet with this data, and I'm not going to start now. I assume that's what you're doing?
Practically all of my current public giveaways are level 0, but they have very specific advocacy purpose. I wouldn't consider making more, because it's typically just fuel for bots. I much prefer giving to humans who are actually interested in playing them.
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Nope, I just have a rough estimate on how many keys I used for the level 0–10 packs. I also use a system for most generic level 0 drops that at least ensures winner feedback in a way that is hard to dispute if I want to send a request feedback ticket. (Also, I mostly drop junk at level 0. Some of the nicer ones are pushed to level 2 now, because, well, bots. I may be an idealist sometimes, but I am not blind.)
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Thanks. That script was not good for me as it seems like all SG++ replacements lack that simple "toggle entered giveaways" button I use the most.
Around 60% level 0 public seems about right, just not for CV, I think. Interesting, I don't remember that much level 8 giveaways.
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I would scrap the entire CV system, but as I said in the post, a lot of people really like to look at other people's stats. And since the won page I think gives a really inaccurate data, the prejudice can run really high. Or sometimes really low, depending on what certain people want to believe about other people.
To make it more clear: there is some strong belief that low-level users take out a lot more from the site than they give in, and high levels are the opposite. I think using the CV meter on the won games would show that it is not really true and maybe would cool the fuck down the user base and make them less obsessed with others' number. (And, int he same time, introduce something for their own stats to make it easier to look at.)
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they meant
Numbers on steamgifts define whether a person is generous or not.
if i'm not mistaking... you seem to be trying to skew what they're saying.
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I know someone who's around level 7 on SG because he likes to give to people he think deserve (who give to the community as well) while refuses to give a single cent for beggars. Numbers that you see don't necessarily define a whole character.
edit: oh, you two reached that point down the line as well.
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True. Most people know me as a stingy asshole. SG maintains the notion that the stingy part is not true.
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You have my vote! :-)
Edit: +1 for displaying additional stats such as this on the profile page; not for your proposal to remove levels. If anything, the site needs more flexible ways to restrict GAs, similar to what SGTools custom rules offer.
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Don't care. But just want to add even if a giveaway receives fewer than 5 entries for invite only/group/region restricted giveaways, it should be added to the winning value. SGTools needs to have this too.
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There's a reason for that rule you see. I'm sure you can figure it out if you give it a go :P
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I want it to be different than contributor value which I know the reason of it.
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Aah, sorry about that, my mistake. I understad what you're saying now and I wasn't aware that the wins didn't count.
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they said to the winners value.. i actually agree.. not give the gifter any CV, but the winner still gets the minus CV (which they don't have it count towards their "won" CV currently).
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Thanks for explaining. I wasn't aware of the points you're making and if that's how it works I'd also have to agree.
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No, I want those who vote to have an opinion. If one doesn't care about a poll, they don't vote, simple as that. Elections don't have a "no candidate" option either.
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But this is a poll about peoples opinion on a subject. Not a vote wether something should actually be implemented or not.
For example. there may be 30% who state they're not bothered either way. Now they either don't vote at all or vote "no" for no change as they're not specifically for the change.
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Valid point, but if you don't have an opinion, then you don't vote, no? :)
Also, for my own personal purposes, the result of this poll would only be usable without a third, neutral option. I did think about it, but I quickly dismissed the idea when I thought about the possible outcomes.
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Not being specifically for or against is an opinion.
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I already imagine the elections - "You can either vote for Axison or Whyme, also if you don't care, you can vote for Potato!"
And later - "Ladies and gentlemen, the new president of XYZ is Potato!"
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The problem is the vote supposed to go to Potato is going to No or Yes, That is not what he wanted, I think.
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I don't like the idea that people should be "controlled" this way, assuming some people "not so smart" and are voting for the option they aren't really voting for, because there's no option which suits them perfectly =|
After a minute thinking it even looks anti-social or something. Weird?
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By the way. Hello, a member of my favorite "Playing Apperciated" group xD
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Imho, elections would immensly gain if there was an option "none of them". Ofc that imaginary "other" must take the mandates and silently sit in parliament voting against any changes (otherwise it would have no sense, politicians don't care about our opinions, only about theirs power)
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it's not the same thing, but on a similar side note.... rhSGST did add a sent/won ratio.. obviously it's as simple as sent divided by won, but that can be helpful in some cases when it isn't easy head math.
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Cool script, it changed my life SteamGifts experience!
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Dunno if it would decrease the amount of people raving about 'leechers'. You know, he who wants to beat a dog always finds a stick :)
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why would it decrease it when it becomes easier? xD
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You wouldn't believe how much of those who cry leecher would suddenly fall into that category as well.
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I can believe pretty anything! I guess. But I didn't understand your idea, forgive for my mad English skills, aren't
those who cry leecher
the same
people raving about 'leechers'
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Do you know how can I quite quoting? xD
I wanted to type
the same
without any quotes but I just can't block that blockquote =p
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You need to spread them out, as parsedown thinks that all populated lines after the quote mark is the part of the same multi-line quote.
>those who cry leecher
the same
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hm, thanks, I feel silly now and need a pink piggy with a crown on it =\
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Do you think it will make them stop entering giveaways? I think they'll just avoid the discussion, but will enter nonetheless.
One likely result would be that some people who give AAA games to higher levels would retire from the site.
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Do you think it will make them stop entering giveaways?
No. I want them to stop caring publicly this much about how others use the site and focus on how they use it.
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Ah, ok. Doesn't really annoy me personally. I rather see these threads in the forum than have good people leave the site and have bots win AAA games just to farm them for cards.
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That would need a captcha for entering anything, but IIRC, that was suggested once or twice and was downvoted to hell. Why, I have no fucking idea. Currently I have more gripes with scripts or people who enter indiscriminately everything than the abundance of social issues the site otherwise has. Even though this topic is trying to address one of those issues. ^.^
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lvl 10 sent, lvl 10 won - does it mean I will stay 1:1 ratio forever? YAY! MOAR LEECHING! :D:
(jokes aside, I believe CV system should be removed alltogether, total opposite of even further expanding it ;p)
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Me too, but if you cannot budge an ass in one way, then maybe you were pulling it the wrong direction and it will move the other way. I am tired of campaigning against the CV system, so I try now to push it towards transparency. I just didn't want another blacklist thread with my idea of letting any user know whose blacklists they are on and making them automatically bi-directional. These seemed like a less-tread path for my purposes.
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I still vote no thou, as I believe it would only leave to even more toxicity oin community, as it would be giving yet another easilly accessible reason to call each others leechers and such. Also while numerical CV is easy to mantain, one could easilly (especially new user) screw their level ratio in a way he will not be able to repair it in a long time and will be marked as leecher for a long time. Let's assume you're a newbie user, and bam, you suddenly won 2 AAA games on your very first day on SG. It will be very hard to repair your ratio. That is why I personally consider someone a leech if BOTH their ratios, numerical and Real CV are bad, if someone has a good numerical or Real CV ratio I find it fine.
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Yes! Cool stuff, we also need a system which will track all of users' payments for games so we can calculate how much did one spend on giveaways, what if <1 won: 100 sent> guy got these games on a 99% sale or even FREE, so his real-real-real contribution value is low! But it's maybe as low as his winning value! Intrigued?But I am! Maybe.
yes, I was last time blacklisted months ago, why don't I stop my jokes, people call them failures.
By the way, I started my own #NoLeech challenge and hid more than 2k games and left only the ones I'd really enjoy if I win them, I will also give away only the games I count decent, using the 25% of my incomes once I get enough.
also #NoFap challenge.Yeah those are hidden not just because I like Mathilda(my tilde(this symbol you use to hide text)(can't explain better)))
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The CV system technically wants to do that. It assumes people try to get the given games at the most optimal values for them, and adds another factor when said optimal value goes beyond a certain threshold. It is incredibly rough for a model to use in scientific models, but common enough to be used as a crude measurement.
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The funny thing is if some things were hidden, people's attitude would change dramatically =D
I just wondered what the life would be like if people could see others' "stats" by looking at them =P
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I don't know... for a site that presents itself as "free steam keys", this seems to be against steamgifts goal...
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for a site that presents itself as "free steam keys"
What?
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The site used to show "Free Steam keys" on the browser tab. It has been replaced by "Giveaways for Steam games" eventually.
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Yes, I know, but it was a test for about 2 or 3 weeks. (maybe 1 month?) Compared to the 5 years sg is running it's a bit negligible, so no the site doesn't present itself as "free steam keys".
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You would be surprised how many people still interpret giveaways as "hoard as many keys as you can (and sell them later)". It is a different kind of problem to what this thread tries to discuss, and a much larger and complex one.
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Despite the fact talgaby explained exactly what I was talking about, do you know the definition of "giveaway", right?
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Yes, it doesn't mean "free keys" as you suggest, if it was the case why can't we giveaway those free games?
cg did a test and removed it because it was a mistake.
Edit: look above
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because there's a level system that must be protected, otherwise, there's no reason to refrain giveaways of free keys.
what you said about free games have nothing do to, whatsoever to the fact that giveaways are free to whoever wants to enter.
edit: I did.
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Yes please! Oh, all the delicious drama it'll bring! Yum!
Jokes aside I don't really care either way
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I honestly have no idea. I also thought that at first but then I noticed it's not this fur thing but wings on the back so.... maybe?
Let's just say Ruyk and the crow had a child :3
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Well, I guess you just offended a god of death, save yourself! xD
I remember him flying so I googled an image of ryuk and it's not "this fur thing" but wings xD
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Wouldn't this just make it easier for people to obsess over ratio? How would that be better? I can't see the benefit for the average user.
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yes, but at least then it would be a more precise obsession. rather then the generic "look @ dat ratio" and i go look at it and see nothing wrong. currently "leechery" is too opinionated, if things were more clear there wouldn't be near as much opinion in the mix.
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I'd welcome clarity, but I'm not sure that clarity would help at reducing the issue of people constantly shouting leecher for any reason since there's not such a thing as a widely accepted leech ratio. Everyone has a different standard, and that's fine for me, everyone has the right to disagree as far as I'm concerned.
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i totally agree really about everyone having different standards.. but at least then it's something clear-cut for people to determine for themselves more easily without doing a ton of investigation.
as far as it cutting down the call-outs and pointing fingers, you're probably right. i doubt it would do much to diminish that from happening. but at least when it does happen there's no need to investigate into why that person was pointed at, you can just shrug your shoulders and say "whatever, doesn't look bad to me" or "damn that is indeed horrible".
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Obsess over "real" ratio then at least, not just some mostly inaccurate data. (Or what this site considers "real" in terms of stats.)
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Then just ask for the number showed to represent the "real" CV instead of adding a publicly available stat that has the potential of confusing noobs.
Remember that the features in the site should benefit the largest amount of users possible, not just us SG permanent inhabitants that already know all most of the written and unwritten rules.
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In a way, I do, but then I should also ask for the real CV number not just the arbitrary level amount. My reasoning is that since the site chose to represent the real value on sent as a level, then it can do the same on the other end.
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The difference being that unlike the sent level it doesn't has any practical use inside the system right now, is just a stat. I also believe that the current plan of the site is to reward the action of giving instead of putting pressure on not winning to much. A guilt based system ain't a nice thing.
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It should have one option like Potato. (I don't really care about this matter).
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I'm trying to host a relatively serious discussion in this topic and I didn't want to infantilise it with a recurring site gag option. Thanks for the bump though.
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I understand your POV. I'm sorry then. I didn't vote.
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Real CV simply doesn't matter to me for one simple reason.
I'm a broke mofo who can't really afford games.
It doesn't matter to me what someone paid for a game, what really matters is how much money I didn't pay.
That's why I only pay attention to the cash totals on the profile page.
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Voted yes - 'let's shake things up a bit' 😈
Edit: Remember statistics don't blacklist people. People blacklist people. Don't be afraid of a few numbers 🙀
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Sure, but I would argue that right now those people who really super duper care about those numbers already have 6 addons📊, 4 scripts📉, 3 SGTool links💹 running for every person and every comment already.
Either way it'll make for some interesting drama🍿 for a bit 😈🤘
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Someone hasn't given away a game in over 3 years.
They've won multiple AAA titles (latest less than a month ago), most of which have just sat in their Library untouched.
Blacklist or not?
I've already blacklisted the user I am talking about, but would you?
Sometimes the statistics do matter.
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I won't blacklist them unless I saw them making a hateful comment somewhere to someone, but that is my personal choice. They don't matter to me but obviously they matter to others, which is fine. Even if I got a stat showing me something like that I probably wouldn't blacklist tbh 🤷 That's my point though. Confucius say, "statistics only matter to the people they matter for" 😇
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But you have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise people will walk all over you.
Imagine it like a limb with gangrene (or necrotic tissue), sometimes you have to cut the limb off to save the body.
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Okay, let me give you some examples:
Earlier I got blacklisted by 2 people, one for posting this attached gif & the 2nd one for posting "level 3 gib has less entries than the level 4 one 🤔"
In both cases they had much better ratio/statistics📊 than me. So I shouldn't blacklist🖤 them right? I didn't yet
People are not 'gangrene' and that is exactly the point talgaby is trying to raise when people here call others 'leeches'🐛 in a derogatory manner.
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You really shouldn't have been blacklisted in either case.
And some people really do need to be blacklisted.
And if someone blacklists me for whatever reason, and I find out about it, I BL them back.
If they don't want me entering their giveaways, then they don't deserve to enter mine either.
I don't blacklist people left and right like others do. You have to do something pretty stupid to end up on my BL.
I also contribute to the community, and try to keep my ratio pretty close to 1:1 (Real Cash Value, not "Real CV")
If someone was so inclined, they could make a brand new Steam Account, win giveaways, then sell the account.
That's why I'm having an issue with some people not making a giveaway in over a year (over 3 years for the person I BLed last night) while still entering and winning AAA titles that are not being played.
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Well according to Statistical analysis theory of Blacklisting®™, those people should not be blacklisted 🤔 So maybe statistics or numbers don't actually tell you anything.
What if there is someone who is super depressed/unemployed and the only thing that let's them stay sane is watching the 'Space cat' winning gif every so often 🤔 Would you want to subject them to Statistical analysis theory of Blacklisting®™?
Steamgifts doesn't allow people to make new accounts afaik, in fact a lot of people staying in the same house/building have said they got banned for multiple accounts, so I don't think we really need to worry about that.
P.S. I got another 🖤 for my previous comment 😹
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I'm currently unemployed. Sort of depressed but not to the point where I need "medicine" for it.
I'm still making giveaways.
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How can you be depressed when there's a cat literally booping you?
🅱🅾🅾🅿
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Because I'm as close to asthma as you can be without having asthma, and I can't have one. :(
It also really limits where I can work. I've passed out at work from fumes and gotten dizzy around old women who use too much perfume.
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I don't have the amount of land to get the dog I really want.
And it would be mean (to the dog) to get a dog that I don't want to begin with.
I'd like an Alaskan Malamute, a Siberian Husky, a Shiba Inu, or a Rocky Mountain Husky.
Or a Welsh Corgi named Einstein.
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I can't have any pets either, I just watch them and pretend ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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i don't blacklist people period for any reason, yet i want this too.. statistics are nice to have even if its just to know stuff and not do anything about it.
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It's sort of nice idea and would improve whole experience but i do not think that it is significant enough to put time and effort into.
No one generally calls someone with 500$ sent and 700$ won ( for example ) a leech,even thou his real cv might be something like 200$ sent VS 60$ won.
Then it comes to someone with 0.02 ratio possibility that he has sent more than he has won even in real CV is really ridiculously low.
What i'm trying to say i guess is that while there are of course exceptions to every rule, in majority of cases ratio+raw cv still gives a pretty good idea of someones contributions .
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It wouldn't be in my favor as many consider me a leecher. But I'm actually in favor of this idea. It would be more fair for the real contributors of this site. I voted Yea
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see imo, something like this would help someone like you.. it looks bad at a glance, but real CV wise, you're actually really close to a full 1:1 which imo is perfectly acceptable.
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Well thank you. I didn't calculate it myself so I didn't know.
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You've had 4 giveaways in the past month. You might not give that often, but you still give.
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I give when I have something spare. That's not often tho since I don't buy many bundles and when I do there is a small chance I already have it. So I don't have many games to giveaway
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Well the Humble Monthly is a great way to get games to give away.
While technically a "bundle", none of the games are "bundled".
You'll get full credit for almost all of them.
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Yes I've seen that also. I have bought the Humble montly twice I believe. But I'm a student and don't have much money to spare. So I only buy the Humble Monthly if the pre-unlock game looks awesome. Otherwise I'll probably don't buy it. And when I get new games I'll most likely add them to my library. Unless the game looks dead-awful which doesn't happen that much in a Humble Monthly.
But thanks for your tip!
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Why not. Stats are good, accurate stats are better.
Although people will still find ways to diss one another as long as we've still got avatars and names.
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Anytime people are involved you will always have discord.
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Sure, why not? I'm tired of seeing users call one another "leeches."
Sorry, Talgaby, but after giving it some more thought, I'm changing my answer on this one -- while I'm tired of seeing users call one another "leeches," I don't think this will solve the problem. Every time a new "stat" is introduced, it just provides the community with one more way to segregate users into categories. You hand 100 people hammers, and someone is going to use it to hit the guy next to him instead of a nail.
Ideally it'd be nice if everyone would stop worrying about this sort of thing altogether, but I don't see that happening any time soon. :/
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SGT already shows a lot more info than what OP proposes. So that one guy wanting to hit his neighbour, already has a hammer. Sledge hammer to be precise.
I find it good that ppl worry about freeloaders. Every community has freeloaders, but those that do nothing, don't survive in the longer run.
Altough I wouldn't mind at all if they understood that money isn't the only way to measure contribution, or that for every generous Tzaar there must be people with less than one ratio. Would it happen? I can only hope..
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I'm just past all the CV and caring about it, that's all it is.
I didn't even vote in the poll. That's how wishy-washy I am on this one. :P
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You don't watch "My wallet is bigger than yours" show?
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You got me.
I actually googled to see if that was a real show. -_-
/self facepalm
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That's precisely why I checked.
It seems like a show someone would make LOL.
There's shows about hoarders, gypsy weddings, naked people in the woods ... it wouldn't surprise me. :X
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And ppl look at me weirdly when I admit I don't have a TV
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I join here 3 month ago,. start with lvl 0 unemployed ,. the thread i visit daily is this one https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Ej1Nz/orphan-keys-drop-thread-reboot, barely able to get key.. ninja got it :-(, Then i got temp job, buying some IG bundle Artifex Mundi, i'm interest with that game too, but only can afford one that time, so i'm all in all for GA, and then i'm increasing to lvl 1 and so on. It's very hard to won any game when you're on LVL0, and no group will accept you in this level ,..
Giveaway shouldn't focus on value,. becuz not everyone has deep pocket. And even there is new system "won level", "prize level" or something, i still unable to giveaway AAAA games, because i can't afforded.. Most the games i own, was gifts from my brother, and some i bought from bundle.
prize level, won level, it;'s like separate gifts for Rich and Poor,. its bad bad bad,.. someday if i'm rich, im not going to look for rich guy and buy him food., instead i will find the poor one so he can enjoy good food at least once for his life.
Sorry for my english..
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Think of it as "luck level" then: how many times you won on the gamble of entering a giveaway and how big prize you managed to get home.
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"luck level" its worst i guess,.. chances better to be equal like now..
the rich one always can afford that game even not wiining, and the poor one perhaps will never able to afford that games.. so there is no point to increase luck for user with high CV
sorry my english bad, i just gonna read for now :-)
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no
seems too many "winners" don't want to show off their amount of wins?
what's wrong, fear of being excluded from events/groups/custom filters for winning too much?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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i'f i'm against suggestions on sg i'll be labelled as negative, and people don't like that. so i just agree with every single suggestion now because they are awesome.
i just let cg pick which suggestions work for him since public votes are useless. o/
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No, because people who choose to give away hundreds of free dev keys on their personal accounts end up skewing the stats for everyone else.
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We all know about CV. There have been quite a few discussions about the entire system, sometimes going to such lengths as suggesting to remove the entire system as it is. Which I still support, but since it is not likely to ever happen, it maybe could be expanded a bit.
Currently, the profile page of anyone tracks their raw value of wins and sent games, but as we all know, the real contributor value the site's level system is based on uses a different formula. This is semi-directly represented as the current level value on the profile page as well.
But what about the real value of the wins?
Let's be honest: an unnerving amount of people have a sometimes unhealthy obsession of users generally referred to as leechers; sometimes as a degradatory term, sometimes simply as someone who has a sent:won ratio under 1.0. And this is the problem: we don't really know that ratio. The wins stat only counts the number of won games and their raw CV, we need to use an external site, SGTools to find out the "real CV" of someone's won games.
This is why I propose a "prize level" (or something similar). It would be pure statistics, like the current won numbers (so you cannot just use it for giveaway limitations), but just like CV for sent games, it would represent the site's internal calculations for the won games. Who knows, maybe some random guy with 100 wins and 5 sent actually has a higher contributor value than won value. (Or the opposite: someone with an impressive 1000:20 stat actually sent a ton of cheap bundle games and has managed to snag over a dozen 60-dollar titles.)
Some groups already use SGTools' real won value to calculate win/sent ratios when they list their requirements, since there are quite a few users who know that the displayed raw numbers can often hide interesting secrets. We could just bring it out front.
And those who also want to make sure they keep their nice 1:1 ratio would also have a somewhat easier time of checking it by a simple glance.
Let's see how fast will it reach 80% "no" votes…
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