That sounds like a problem, I wonder, is there anything you can do, or, to put it all together, is there anything you can do about this thing that sounds like a problem.
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If such a rule existed, all these comments just would contain something without "bump".
There are infinitely many variations of comments which can be seen useful or useless by different people.
No one (particularly, no mods) would like to dip themselves in dealing and processing such "rule breaking". Waste of time and nerve. They have to spend enough time already on actual problems.
On top of everything, SG doesn't have forum suspension (to my knowledge, that is). There is enough people suspended from gifting for all kinds of silly occasions on forum. What punishment would you suggest for bumping, the same suspension? And hundreds of people won't know of such rule changes. Better to remove whole forum then.
You can't actively change others, especially by making rules. Any solution can be applied only to your own client. ESGST is perfect for your problem.
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Bumping has a converse effect though, to its intention. When I do know that a thread has only a less than 1/30 chance that the comment isn't just a bump, people will actually have less intention to visit the thread than if bumps wouldn't exist.
And there are 2 rather simple technical options that should suit all needs.
And this indeed should be possible without ESGST.
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You have responded to my comment, however this is a bit unrelated: your suggestion doesn't prevent anyone willing from cluttering the forum in any forms they want, including not forum-oriented messages. (For record, I don't believe that there is any reasonable way to do so - it is question of mindset, culture etc., hence there is no point to put any stress on users and mods, nor invest in any active measures).
Button for bringing threads up without a comment can be abused/automated. Either way, users will see on top of the thread list all the same over-bumped threads so this only may help to decrease the comment clutter on a voluntary basis, which is great but not necessarily effective.
The suggestion regarding new thread sorting options is fine, it doesn't touch anyone and works reliably. In the end, the best solutions are on user options/interface side.
Regarding "something should be possible/available by default": Adding new in-built sorting options is a useful development suggestion (maybe you could post it). But until it is implemented (if ever), it is not a crime for users to give at least as small effort to help themselves as installing already existing mod.
Not talking specifically of you, but it is amusing how people tend to "value" own efforts to extent of not willing to move a finger, while ignoring that anything they ask also requires action/effort on other side :)
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Button for bringing threads up without a comment can be abused/automated.
and as we know from the scripts that automatically added comments on entering giveaways, commenting also can be abused/ automated, so that's a very moot point of why something shouldn't happen. Also, what kind of topic could be abused? Maybe group recruitment, but on a proper forum specific sub-categories could be hidden, so that also wouldn't be a problem.
Btw it's the site's and cg's job to make the site better, they shouldn't play Bethesda by just waiting for mods / scripts to make their product better. SG is a multiple year old site yet it is still lacking absolutely fundamental features present on other forums for decades. Are you paid by cg to tell users to stop asking for basic features, and just sort it out for themselves? It's like getting so used a shit system that's not willing to change that people just step on everyone who wants more than the makeshift solutions OTHERS did to improve the basic system.
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You say that SG is lacking in "absolutely fundamental features" and that it is a "shit system." I disagree. There is, however, room for improvement, and CG has a "To Do List" which he works on whenever he has the opportunity. Keeping in mind that SG is first and foremost dedicated to creating raffles, I think it does that fairly well. I agree that other sites have increased functionality in relation to their differing purposes, but I feel it would be unrealistic to expect one guy (working in his spare time) to engineer additional functions simply because they happen to appear somewhere else on the Internet.
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Shit was an overstatement indeed, but when people are so used to circumvent the problems that they try to silence someone who points out the problem, claiming that it works if you tinker with it by downloading tampermonkey, then the script, then take your half an hour min. to set up all the options. I'm pretty sure sorting by date is present on forums for like half a decade or so.
But it's possible that I'm just naive and really have no idea what I'm talking about. I don't know how it could be done, but as far as my stupid head go I see one guy working on his spare time on a site and ocassionally having some updates, while other people (usually one by one) are making scripts to engineer additional functions into the site - in their spare time. I'm like 99.999% sure the thing can not be copy-pasted into the site because nothing on earth is that simple, and spare time means different for different people. This just feels like I need a builder to make a house, and another expert to cut the doors and windows out of the walls, instead of just them working together and making a functioning house in one step.
TLDR more frustration than actual anger against CG and the site.
It's just really irks me, one of the top functions I use on the site is hiding topics (from ESGST) one click entry with desc. popup (ESTSG) and reply from inbox (ESGST). Hiding trains that I visited and will run for 2 weeks, same with puzzles, controversial topics, some stickied discussions or just the benign "spam" topics that may be interesting, but surely don't carry up to date and important information - hiding all of these can clean up the forum so much. Deals section works perfectly because people don't bump out of date stuff, and very easy to find new bundles or relevant news.
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It is true that the SG forum is relatively "bare bones." My understanding is that the forum was added on, secondarily, as a means to help with the giveaway process. That is far different from other sites which start out as a dedicated forum and then add other functions on top of that. For one thing, a new site can simply use one of the "standard" forum setups, dropping a fully-loaded and ready-to-go forum onto the site. (This is why so many of them look almost exactly the same.) Coding a forum from scratch as an add-on is another story.
I understand your frustration. You would like a more functional forum, and CG spends most of his effort of other aspects of the website. I suppose that is natural given that he has a different focus than you do.
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sorry (again) for the "intrusion", adam :D
one guy working on his spare time on a site and ocassionally having some updates
this is what i think is SG. me too, had a few of your expectations:
while other people ... are making scripts to engineer additional functions
but, now only the first one comes to my mind, browsing discussions, making giveaways. those "additional functions" is something i love to search for, implement, use and share related ideas/thoughts
my two TGIF cents, have fun, adam!
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About button for threads bumping: it is different from commenting. Only implementing the button doesn't solve the issue with abundance of not valuable comments, and we have no idea how heavy downsides it will introduce. Do you see much automated bump commenting on forum now? No, because it makes little sense (and GA thanks commenting has nothing to do with this topic). There is already enough manual bumping activity and most of these people avoid writing/bumping even more often, because it is visible to everyone.
With "invisible" bumping, in the worst cases the current thread listing system can be driven to much worse state than now, a few old auto bumped threads with no new comments being permanently on top.
Then you will be frustrated even more and not use current listing at all. Note, I am not against the button - I analyze and say that the whole undertaking has low expected benefit (a few reasonable people will voluntarily use the button instead of bumping) while bringing a lot of unknowns and potential misuse. Why bother, a question.
I agree about everything needing constant improvement. If you carefully read, I didn't tell anyone to stop suggesting improvements - quite opposite. Just not all suggestions can stand for obvious critics. The suggestion about implementing new sorting/filters for threads is great in my opinion.
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In opposite, ESGST should be considered not a final fix, but temporarily - and thanks a lot to its dev. You don't want to touch it, ignore the advice, maybe others can use it for now. Don't stop complaining but suggest and analyze solutions.
I am sure every forum lurker can agree that they won't look into most threads deeper than the first page because it is just a bunch of "useless bumps". But your OP didn't have any real suggestion to complaint. My original comment regards the fact that fighting/punishing people who still care to take part in SG forum is never going to work, and there is not much what can be done to "change" others nor it is wise.
You could add this needed ESGST functionality / thread sorting options to suggestions.
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On second thoughts, too lazy to make another proper giveaways.
Have freebie keydrops instead～ (´・ω・｀)
Robowars - V九WJT-GYM5F-DJB9X
Absconding Zatwor - JP6I2-KL五7T-G94CI
Torch Cave 2 - PG8FN-R七W7P-8LC9K
!Dead Pixels Adventure! - 0LH4I-B二ELK-82N2J
Monsti - KA9V8-NH六03-0HKWF
Heaven Island Life - 686MJ-0GEF四-0MB8N
Indiegala Golden Flash Giveaway - WL42N-JFLQD-NB八ZK
Sigh... I knew I shouldn't have move out from my lurking shadows...
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Nah, I don't blacklist people and I don't mind if people blacklisted me.
But I do mind those people who whitelisted me when I barely active in forums, all I did was just lurking and recently saying random things at times. I don't really do whitelist either, so whenever I see my whitelist counter goes up, I always have thoughts like "Who? Why? What did I do? How can I return their kindness when I don't even know who they are?"
Well, don't mind me. I just really like lurking, mostly because I won't cause any trouble to other Internet Persons.
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risky business if you ask me, I just got another blacklist, at least I more or less know for what this time xD
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waifus shipment is serious business! and you can annoy people with it so easy <3
besides i doubt i would see giveaways from people that blacklisted me anyway, im not rally member of top tier groups, I give potatoes and I play potatoes ¯_(ツ)_/¯ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pr97vvh3VAM
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Oh that, well, don't you dare to lump Meiling with those kind of dudes.
And no, I didn't know waifus are serious business. The Internet Person above just told me the same thing an hour ago.
Anyway, I think things got too personal in here, not to mention out-of-topic, ahaha
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Ah... I just saw your comment after writing something about whitelist above. Now I feel embarrassed, ahaha
Well, at least I can easily whitelist back～
Then again, part of the reason I don't really do whitelist is because of my country's currency. I can't really create 'good' giveaways without stumbling upon region restrictions and such, ahaha
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People are bumping threads with giveaways. Thats all.
All those threads you showed in your screenshoot are bumped mostly because people add new giveaways to them.
Basically all youre asking for is "stop adding new giveaways to those threads"
.. cool but whats the difference where you put those giveaways?
Unles you want to "ban" all "bumps"... but without "bumps" many giveaways will drown under other threads before getting any entries.
So bumping is just fair, especialy if giveaway maker want to promote something.
(and if there's no content outside "its my bday/cakes/graduation/i did poop today..." or "check up my group on steam" there's no way to respond with anything else than various form of "bump" (including wishes and cat gifs).
Anyway I think question "if you should or shouldn't let more people see giveaway" is topic for another disciussion.
I think you really wanted to say "People make more threads with content other than giveaways", but you can't demand people to start talking and have opininons if they don't want to.
Only solution I see for this problem is banning giveaways from forum or making separate forum for giveaway... and that wouldn't make sense since whole point of hidding giveaways on forum is to give them to people that want to check up forum.
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To be honest I think "bump feature" would be cool (it would be easer to navigate those kinds of forums), but this won't fix base problem - lack of threads with content.
And as I said you cant just force people to talk.
Other thing is that threads with content just die faster, since theres no point of "bumping" them if everyone said whant they wanted.
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I think posts older then 14 days(or less) don't bump anymore unless bumped by a MOD
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The deals section works wonderfully, because people stop bumping them after the deal ends (except if key added / revoked) so the top topics there are always relevant. I would love if I SG would allow the option to make the general discussions similarly useful.
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The threads in your example have new giveaways regularly added to them, so it makes sense that they would stay towards the top, and it's better than having a new thread created every time.
But I also see your point about how a thread full of "bump" comments doesn't aid actual discussion. I'm not familiar with SteamTrades, but a bump option that brings a post to the front without adding a comment sounds like a good solution. Alternatively, having more sorting options - latest post, creation date - would also work.
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I've seen several threads of the same form, all get similarly naysayed just within the 3 years I've been on the site.
They were always naysayed with good reasons. Meanwhile, the only constructive benefit people in favor of a bump feature have offered is that it's less spammy- except, y'know, it's not. It's just a different, potentially more easily abusable form of spam.
I mean, if it's locked to just the thread creator, and it's got a really lengthy cooldown, then it should be fine- but you open up a can of worms if you make it too accessible. Meanwhile, as others in this thread have noted, the main difficulties the forums face are inherent to their current design, not off how they're utilized by users.
Similarly, as noted by others, the OP is addressing specific threads, which are bumped due to sentiments of wanting to express or encourage well-wishes, positivity, and/or giveaways. Restricting the bump-feature to the OP would go against the concept of such threads, opening a bump feature up to others would go against the concept of such threads and be more open to abuse, and opening it to the OP while retaining current bumping not only adds nothing but needless extra prioritization for certain threads, but also goes against the stated intention and benefits this thread promotes.
In short, nothing would meaningfully change after the addition of a bump feature except, at worst, certain threads would become far less interactive (regardless of how complex that interaction currently is).
There are too many considerations to work through before a change of this sort could be implemented well, and comments to the effect of "the forums are shit" aren't a workable way of addressing those considerations. (Though, again, the forum's lack of non-script feature enhancements is a major issue in how it restricts smooth and efficient forum use.)
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Uuumm, ok? Did you reply to me by accident or something?
I should probably clarify that I agree that a bump feature... really isn't beneficial or necessary anymore. The forum and, well, people on it were different 6 years ago and nowadays it's generally filled with a lot more negativity. While the OP's idea of helping "positive" threads is ok and all it would also help all the "negative" threads go back to the forefront just as much (if not more) and overall bring harm.
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My intent was to agree with your sentiment.
I was told "no" 6 years
[It's not just from 6 years ago, I can attest to there having been] several threads of the same form, [which all got] similarly naysayed just within the 3 years I've been on the site.
And..
your linked thread's replies
My attempt to assert that all the reasons given in your replies are still true, and are further emphasized by the current considerations of the forums.
I think we're mostly in sync on our perspectives? :)
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As has been mentioned by several people already (which means I'm not adding anything more to the discussion, making this comment a disguised "useless bump"), I see the fundamental problem is lack of a sort by creation date option for the forum.
I use ESGST at home, but cannot install it at work. Consequently I don't read the forums at work. Which is probably a good thing. I take it all back SG, don't change a thing - my job is at stake!
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"Do we want to solve world hunger?"
Yes
No
"Nah, too much hassle"
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Nice, next is birthday/cakeday button in birthday/cakeday thread features :D
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Your thread make people with +50 daily bump-comments sad xD
Old discussion https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/Mj1aHQA
I like rules on reddit about similar bump 10 times in 5 minutes
https://www.reddithelp.com/en/categories/rules-reporting/account-and-community-restrictions/what-constitutes-spam-am-i-spammer
The following are examples of behavior that may be considered spam and are subject to removal/suspension:
- Repeatedly posting the same or similar comments in a thread, subreddit or across subreddits.
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