Uhm. So what? It might be a shock to you, but people die. Every day. Literally.
149,613 Deaths today (and rising)
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thanks for informing us that we shouldn't ever mourn the death of someone, even if we don't personally know them. 👍
just remember that when someone you know dies, you aren't allowed to tell anyone about it, because, you know, people die all the time! 🤷
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I assume you wouldn't respond "So what?" if you heard a relative of yours had died? While it's true that tens of thousands of people die every day, people tend to be more affected by those deaths when they are relatively young individuals and/or people they know (even if only at a distance through celebrity). It doesn't make those others unacknowledged deaths less important. But most people would be absolutely paralyzed if they allowed themselves to emotionally experience the full scope of the suffering and tragedy that takes place in the world.
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Of course, I would. That's my personal issue if my relatives or someone close dies, right? I don't need nor do I have to make it public or anything. I've lost enough people to know about this kind of stuff. They've lived their lives, they died, nothing we do or say will change it. And there're better things to do than going around and repeating this stuff. For example, keeping them in your memory and living the way and be the person they've inspired you to be.
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Wait so if you heard on the news a family member of yours had died in a plane crash, your response would be "So what?". Or are you saying the media shouldn't be reporting on a helicopter crash where 9 people died?
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Anything I could do to change it at that point? No. Then, so what?
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Even if that's genuinely how you feel when you are personally confronted with the death of a loved one, certainly you have to appreciate the vast majority of people cannot emotionally detach themselves in that way. The suffering those people feel from their loss warrants more than a "so what?" response.
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What an absolutely disgusting way to view the loss of life.
I know its fun for some people to be edgy, but it's especially distasteful in a situation like this.
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Yes, some might find it disgusting that deaths only matter if it's some rich celebrity and not hundreds of thousands of others.
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This argument simply doesn't hold water.
Caring about "some rich celebrity" death doesn't preclude one from caring about the deaths of others, nor does it even remotely imply that they don't care.
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So where are the threads full of crying for the hundreds of thousands of others every day? It fully implies they don't care, they just don't want to accept it so they can keep pretending to care.
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Not making a thread for every individual who passes in no way implies no one cares. That's a ridiculous argument.
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What is ridiculous is this hypocritical pretending that you care about all human life while you only care about selected few human lives.
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No, what's ridiculous are your assumptions about me. formulated on the spot to suit your own agenda and argument.
On top of that, you've decided to use someone's untimely death as a pulpit from which to preach.
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English has a generic you, you know. What exactly am I preaching?
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So where are the threads full of crying for the hundreds of thousands of others every day? It fully implies they don't care
What is ridiculous is this hypocritical pretending that you care about all human life while you only care about selected few human lives.
You're preaching that one should care about all human life, on the assumption that people don't, which you've based on the fact that we don't make threads for all of them.
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Where did I say people should care about all human life? So who actually is assuming and formulating their own agendas here? Quite the opposite, I'm just saying people should stop pretending to care about all lives when they clearly do not. Pointing out a clear hypocrisy is not preaching of any kind. If you really are on Mother Teresa level of actually caring about everyone equally then that makes you a rare exception, not the general rule.
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Where did I say people should care about all human life?
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/qh3Gbi0
You've implied, in that comment below, that we should value all lives equally, meaning we shouldn't value any of them at all (which is impossible), or that they should all be cared about (and in equal measure).
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Are you really confusing caring with giving equal value? Saying something is worthless unless it has some personal value means that it should be cared about? Maybe take a deep breath and think again.
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If you think a short time suffering on Earth will give you a VIP pass to heaven for all eternity after death, wouldn't it be not caring if you didn't make people suffer?
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+1. It's sad that people die, but if we mourn everyone just one second per day, we just have no time left to live.
I find it ironic that people complain about inequalities all the time, yet maintain those inequalities even in who they mourn (and/or think about). Instead of all mourning 1 guy with 50 million fans, we'd do more good by each mourning 1 random person every year.
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Apparently it's OK now to value human lives differently. Maybe eugenics will become trendy next.
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Apparently it's OK now to value human lives differently.
As if you're not guilty of the same. As if we're all not. But please explain to everyone how you don't value the lives of your family, friends, wife, or children more than that of others.
Seriously, Starwhite, sometimes I believe you argue for the sake of argument.
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And here we go with more assuming this and that. Please explain where did I say anything of the sort? I fully admit to giving any random human life the value of 0 or even negative with overpopulation being a major problem we're facing that's destroying the Earth. On top of that I give personal value to people I care about. I'm fully open about it and don't even try to pretend to care about the rest.
Seriously Tzaar, sometimes I believe you act all dense for the sake of argument.
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Context and where you replied do matter.
And then we come full circle, back to your comment implying we (generally speaking) don't care about human lives because we don't make threads for all of them, which is still a poor argument.
It fully implies they don't care
Perhaps we don't care about them individually, because that would be entirely impractical, but that's no indication that we don't care about human lives.
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Keep on assuming and pretending then.
"I care about all lives, but it's so impractical so I'll just care about the personally valuable ones". Hypocrisy much?
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I used the term "individually" for a reason, and it appears you've omitted it for a reason as well.
TLDR: To expect one to express concern over every individual passing is simply unrealistic. To expect 149,613 threads today is unrealistic, so we tend to recognize those that have influenced or impacted our lives more than others.
Again, that in no way implies we don't care about the deaths of others.
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So why should we care about dead celebrities individually? And why would you expect others to care one bit about the ones that they haven't ever even heard about just because you personally cared about them?
Again, that's exactly what it implies. Some people are just too blind to admit their own hypocrisy. When was the last time you cared about people dying all over the world all the time? Really cared and not just pretended for the sake of an argument?
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Again, that's exactly what it implies. Some people are just too blind to admit their own hypocrisy. When was the last time you cared about people dying all over the world all the time? Really cared and not just pretended for the sake of an argument?
Honestly, just minutes ago, when I posted the number of deaths today. That's 149,613 people who had families, friends, and loved ones.
So why should we care about dead celebrities individually?
No one says you should. Regardless, posting "Uhm, so what?" on a thread announcing someone's death is insensitive. How would you feel if someone posted something like that on your announcement of the death of a loved one? I mean, because 149,613 other people died today, right?
And yet, I would feel sympathy for you.
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It was Asher13 and not you who posted the number. But good for you that for a brief moment you could feel like caring and then you can forget it again.
Why would I post announcements about the deaths of loved ones tho? Just to get some sympathy? I have absolutely no problems with the billions of other people not caring one bit about my personal loss. I would need to care about you first to care about if you care about my loss or not.
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Because your brain is not wired to care for more than about 150 people. Otherwise you would probably die from sadness as soon as you understand death.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2010/mar/14/my-bright-idea-robin-dunbar
Also there probably is a thread (or post or whatever) to mourn everyone that dies, statistically speaking.
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That does make a lot of sense, so at least the hypocrites have biology to blame.
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I think that biology describes your brain too, not just the hypocrites'
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Of course it does, but how is that related when it's not in any kind of conflict with my own views?
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What are your views? You are very adamant that everyone should be equally cared about, yet agree on that people can't care for more than 1-2 hundred people. Either there is conflict, or your views are that you equally don't care about people ( or kind-of-unknown people, who's death does not affect you)?. At least that's how it sound.
All I knew about Kobe that he was an afroamerican basketball player, a really good one, and kind of avoided being a celebrity-douche, judging from I almost never heard about him. Can't say I mourn him as he literally didn't effect me at all, but for some people he likely was a motivator, or a role-model. I think public mourning-topics have a "support group" feel to them, bringing some people together who really feel like they lost something ;of course there are just fans as well.
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I can't be very adamant about something that isn't my view. If someone thinks they care about everyone equally, then they should do that. But if they in reality only care about personal losses, thinking that becomes hypocrisy. There is no conflict for me in any of this because I fully understand and admit how it is and am not pretending it's any other way.
That's a lot more than I knew. That is the point, if you only care about the deaths of the people you cared about before, why would you expect for others to care about them.
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Interesting stuff... and makes me feel better about not having a clue about who most of my LinkedIn connections are :D
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This article is a lot more user friendly and does a wonderful job explaining advanced stuff while making shit-tossing monkey jokes.
https://www.cracked.com/article_14990_what-monkeysphere.html
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It most likely wasn't his original research but I first encountered that theory in Malcolm Gladwell's book The Tipping Point which theorizes that trends function in a very similar manner to epidemics.
Quite an interesting read. Some of it might be considered outdated nowadays though... Back in the day, one of the books examples, mayor Rudy Giuliani was hailed for effectively combating New York crime through applying what Malcom Gladwell calls the Broken window theory... nowadays he's apparently considered a racist P.O.S. for enforcing laws against jaywalking. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Does your "book" feature monkeys throwing shit and humping trees for communism? Yeah, didn't think so.
For real though, that book you mention describes how the company arrived to "Dunbar's number" (150, the optimal amount of people working together) by trial and error, validating the theory to some degree. It's quite an interesting read indeed.
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Does your "book" feature monkeys throwing shit and humping trees for communism?
[Picture first.]
I rest my case.
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... almost as if we literally can't comprehend something as grand in scale. Almost as if we mourn those we feel close to.
Like, I get it. You have as much of a connection to Rajesh Barad in Delhi who died from a heart attack at 56 after working as a local mechanic for 18 years as you do to your own family and your idols, but most people don't.
Honestly, this is an argument even I talked about when I was 12 or something, but come on, give it even a single moment of thought and it collapses. Though, odds are this is some twisted way to be morally superior.
Well, congrats on saying that you'd literally either mourn every single person as passionately as the closest person to you or you literally don't care for any living being's death. Like this is so far into the cringe/pretentiousness scale. I barely even comment on SG recently, but come on, it's you dude. You know better. You're riling people up and propping yourself higher at the cost of other people paying respect to a man in their own way...
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Why does everyone keep arguing that I suddenly care about everyone when the only thing I have said is that I care equally little, none or even negatively for the lives of people who I don't personally care about. Idols are not family tho, they have no idea who you are or wouldn't care one bit if you died other than loss of sales maybe.
There still is no kind of moral superiority, just logical superiority of admitting the simple fact others try to hide behind hypocrisy.
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Well, that's why I gave the only two possibilities. Not sure why you're arguing that I argued that when literally 4 words later I also gave the other option..
Like yeah, maybe you're genuinely finding it hard to create empathy due to some mental blocks, but most people do care about people who are close to them more. Like if you were married to someone for 15 years and they died, most people would be more sad than if they heard about a car crash with a single fatality on the other side of the planet.
Pretending that lacking empathy is "logical superiority" is kind of a dead giveaway that you're mainly just figuring stuff out, which is totally fine. But over time, your egocentric arguments (not saying you have an increased ego, talking of developmental stages) will develop into more rounded ideas soon enough. Ironic that your comment managed to turn me from cringing to actual apathy, but I get your side.
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4 words later? Your whole post was about the same thing arguing against something I never said.
I can easily find empathy for people I care for and who care for me, why waste it on others? I have far more empathy for the Earth that is dying from too many humans, so less humans is actually helpful. So now everyone here is married for 15 years to all celebrities? Why do you think making my point over and over for me is somehow proving me wrong?
Pretending to have empathy for everyone while only having it for people you care about is the logical low ground here. I'm not the one who needs to figure anything out since I see it all very clearly because I don't have to pretend to be anything. The really egocentric comments here are the ones that only care about the death because it was some celebrity they liked instead of some random stranger. I guess it will take you some more developing to get to the point of understanding that death is just the other side of the coin to being born, can't have one without the other.
How much more clearer can I make this so people would argue against something that I have actually said at least?
Let's try this:
I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL SUPERIORITY HERE NOR HAVE I EVER CLAIMED TO HAVE
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"The really egocentric comments here are the ones that only care about the death because it was some celebrity they liked instead of some random stranger"
LOL. How can you have some empathy for someone you've never seen in life? On the other hand, Kobe Bryant was a very well know basketball player for at least 20 years.
You don't need to claim moral superiority, that's evident in your comments.
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More like: I don't need to claim moral superiority because I don't feel anything resembling it and even if I did, everyone else seems to have some need to claim it for me so why waste effort. Please learn to read before saying anything is evident or stop bothering me with blatant lies about something you don't seem to have any idea about.
Is it opposite day or something when not caring at all becomes caring and pointing out a logical fallacy becomes moral superiority?
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In your imaginary superiority egocentric world, maybe
Also, again with the argument "logic in emotions", poor little fella :(
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Sigh, you don't even realize that it's all in your own imagination and has nothing at all to do with me. Please show me even one example of me claiming moral superiority anywhere? Actual example, not one of these imaginary ones that everyone keeps repeating.
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I never say that you claimed moral superiority. Stop lying poor little fella :(
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You don't need to claim moral superiority, that's evident in your comments.
Forgive me for the confusion, please show me where this imagined moral superiority is evident in my comments.
Or then just stop lying and trolling, maybe that would help with whatever problems you have. Or even better, learn to read so you can respond to things actually said.
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... Come on dude, that's not how arguments work. Not everything's directly said. It's almost like when someone writes something angry, you don't have to look for a sentence saying "I AM EXTREMELY ANGERED!!!!" to make the assumption. Yes, you don't claim moral superiority. It's almost like it's inferred.
Also, you just saying that it's the other way around, doesn't make it so. Just makes your argument untruthful.
You don't know what egocentrism means. Sorry dude, but like there's no point. You're just harboring a dishonest argument around every corner. Whether you just use terms in the wrong way or you demand just simply abnormal standards for yourself for what is a simple discussion. No point in moving goalposts, no point in starting to define a scientific term just so you wouldn't perhaps use it the wrong way next time.
My point still stands and you're too smart to fall into these traps dude.
Let's say I'm a retard and let's move on.
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I still literally don't feel any kind of moral superiority about having the opinion that couple billion people should die to save the nature. Neither do I feel it for openly admitting that I only care about people close to me who care for me too. It's all about logical superiority that passes questions of moral and ethics with cold hard reason. How anyone can still confuse this with caring about all humans a great deal I cannot understand.
Blatant and obvious lies aren't traps, as long as people keep throwing them at me I will explain why they are not true. Could you at least show me even one example of where this assumed moral superiority is shown? It can't be that hard, just repeating that it's obvious when it clearly is not is just trolling. So I'm not the one harboring anything dishonest here.
Why is it always the people who say let's stop here and go on that have to still include all kinds of false accusations in the last post...
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It's not caring about celebrity death or the Australian bushfires or whatever the cause du jour is that some people consider distasteful, but the self-serving public grieving of people who rush to declare their "thoughts and prayers" in the hope of recognition and positive attention.
https://youtu.be/PTmCxbcRXs4
"Those people are worthless and they deserve to be made fun of. They're like a wedding photographer who only takes selfies." - Anthony Jeselnik.
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People tend to be more affected by those deaths when they are relatively young individuals and/or people they know (even if only at a distance through celebrity). It doesn't make those others unacknowledged deaths less important. But most people would be absolutely paralyzed if they allowed themselves to emotionally experience the full scope of the suffering and tragedy that takes place in the world.
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Not this stupid argument again... Yes, I'm an evil person, I don't care about deaths of people I've never even heard about (yet it obviously pains me when mass unnatural deaths happen - like that horrible last year's accident when a bunch of children burned alive in a locked up cinema here in Russia), but I do care about deaths of people who've actually given something to me. It's not them being celebrities that matters, it's my attitude towards this or that person. For example, I don't care about deaths of all these barely adult rapers who just don't know what to do with their substances, but, for instance, death of David Bowie or Ray Bradbury did hurt. And it's a first time I've ever heard of this Kobe Bryant, but at least I'm mature enough to respect others' right to mourn.
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And it's a first time I've ever heard of this Kobe Bryant, but at least I'm mature enough to respect others' right to mourn.
+1
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As a fitness coach in a local basketball club, I'm very aware of how many people I know were inspired by Kobe Bryant to be and become what they are today - dedicated and good persons. He was an idol to many around the globe, one of the best ever in what his profession was, not just some simple celebrity.
Not saying other deaths don't matter, on the contrary, but mourning for Kobe Bryant is very natural and your "so what" doesn't belong here at all.
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Yeah, I was just reading about this on Facebook, and thought it was another hoax at first.
That's sad news indeed, he was only 41.
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Was quite shocked to hear this. So very sad. Definitely too young to lose him, much like Steve Irwin, and beyond just the loss of the person both also still had so much to offer to their respective crafts that they would have done that will ultimately be missed.
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The first time that I heard about this legend was from the N64 games, more than 20 years ago. RIP...
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He owns the helicopter so he was probably the easiest one to confirm quickly as the news was breaking. But yeah some will ignore the others that died with him. It's all tragic, but the daughter being on board too really hit me.
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So giving human life a value based on their achievements is perfectly OK now? Usually when people try to do that they are called nazis and whatever. How many poor random people would have to die to match the death of 1 celebrity? A thousand? A million? A billion?
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4 others? I was talking about the millions who die every month and nobody cares about because they aren't celebrities or the families of those celebrities. And yes you explained it nicely why people imagine such distasteful behavior is acceptable.
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Fortunately I don't think the dead people are suffering from the lack of mourning in any way. People just have hard time separating mourning for the loss of life and mourning for their personal loss.
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So now everyone should mourn the "millions who die every month" because you say so?
You're not our boss buddy, stop taking the moral high ground
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And where exactly did I say people should care when the only thing I have still been saying is that they should stop pretending to care? And how is that a moral high ground? It's a logical high ground sure.
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So now everyone should "stop pretending to care" because yo say so?
You're not our boss buddy, stop taking the moral high ground
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You still seem to be confusing morals with logic, there is very little I can do about that.
So now I should "stop taking the moral high ground" because you say so? I can't stop something I'm not doing.
You're not by boss buddy, stop taking the logical low ground.
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First of all, when someone says "stop pretending to care", this isn't about logic, it's about emotions. It's like you saying "please stop caring about something you like". You can't command the emotions of others.
And when you say "I was talking about the millions who die every month and nobody cares about because they aren't celebrities or the families of those celebrities. And yes you explained it nicely why people imagine such distasteful behavior is acceptable." The bold part is the moral high ground.
I hope you can understand. Thanks and have a good day (without so much inner rage).
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I still never said that anyone should stop caring about things they like. Just like I never said people should or should not care about all lives equally. What I said is that if you pretend to care about all equally and then in reality only care about the personally liked ones, you're a hypocrite and should stop that.
The bold part is also a quote from the previous post, not my words.
I understand fully, except the part where you imagine this inner rage. But good day to you as well, even if I don't really care if it is good or not.
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No, it's about being emotionally tied to them by being more familiar with them. Nothing more.
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HOW DARE YOU, to not think like I do, I mean I'm not hypocrite, I only care when they die, funk off people who is alive, i am mean to them, but not to the recently death famous people
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you're right, but when I've read about the crash, only Bryant's death was confirmed
and sadly now they said another 8 people are dead
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His daughter was in that heli as well also died...
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Damn. He was a great player. Respect to his family.
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RIP Kobe. Legend of the game.
RIP to the 4 other people as well including his daughter I believe.
Very sad news today
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Shock, terrible news.
After MJ and Chicago Bulls i only occassionaly watched NBA, I watched many star matches/contests too and his end of career, I viewed him as the biggest star for years after Jordan.. sad.
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Kobe, his daughter and another 2 persons. RIP...very bad notices...shocked...
:-(
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9 people were on the helicopter. Rip everyone on board. This thread is a big mess.
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Indeed, it is. Whatever people might think about such threads in general personally, even to them it should be obvious that it's the worst place to escalate into a pointless tirade.
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you're right, but when I've read about the crash, only Bryant's death was confirmed
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this thread made all edgelords come out of their basements 😂
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I am incredibly saddened by this, just heard about the news.
RIP Kobe, Gigi, and everyone else on board. Thoughts and prayers for the families and everyone else involved. 😧
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Definitely sad. He was younger than me, and one of his kids was with him, plus several other people.
On the other topic -- if we can call it that -- I think one of the reasons it's common to discuss celebrity deaths is that most people have a frame of reference, because there's a decent chance that some people will have heard of the person in question. It doesn't mean that we care more about the celebrity's death than we do about other people's deaths. It's just common ground for a conversation. Humans tend to be social creatures, so they look for commonality, especially in sadness.
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i guess our brains tend to ignore the countless deaths happening everyday because otherwise we'd get mad. they're anonymous people so it's easy not to think about them too much. when someone famous dies, it's quite different - we somehow know the man, their name, something about them (especially when someone like Kobe dies - i'm not american, i don't give a damn about basketball but his skill was so well-known i've heard his name on numerous occasions).
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woopdy fucking doo.
a man who was payed out the ass for playing with balls died. where is the post for stephen hawking.
of all the people who died today i guarantee he wasnt the most important when it comes to the survival or advancement of mankind.
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shit. i thought about how this man made a shit tone of cash from nike, and nike made a shit tone of money from exploitation of workers.
good riddance
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where is the post for stephen hawking.
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/mxgLe/rip-stephen-hawking
You seem angry. I hope things will get better for you.
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What the hell are the answers here? People died. It will never be cool.
My condolences to their families, to Kobe Bryant's fans and to the whole sports world for the invaluable loss (even if I don't even know the rules of basketball well and never watched Bryant's matches), as well as the world of the families of the other people.
That was really sad.
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Oh, boy, that will make me cry. I cry even when a great athlete I've never seen, but heard about, announces their retirement. I'm very sensitive.
I don't need to understand much about basketball to see that and realize he was a show man, a legend of our time. Just like great works, scientists, artists, I believe world class athletes are a world heritage which may be shown to be appreciated and to work as inspiration for anyone.
It's sad enough when they "die" for sports (as they use to say when they retire) once, but literally passing away is even more painful.
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Lebron passed Kobe's all-time scoring and now Kobe passed away.
R.I.P. indeed.
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There are two types of people in the world: those who have lost loved ones, and those who haven't yet.
Some folks in this thread will understand eventually, death binds us all.
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Kobe Bryant passed away in a helicopter crash
Another 8 people died in the accident, so sad :(
https://www.dailynews.com/2020/01/26/helicopter-crashes-near-calabasas/
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