Based on what you've read above, what class should I play?(Poll Requires Games to Vote)
Also, I'm not above using console commands / cheats to fix mistakes and in general make sure I'm always having fun.
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Also, I'm not above using console commands [to] make sure I'm always having fun.
There's a breast size parameter, and you can make chest size expand enough that it can encompass an entire game zone.
You're welcome. 🙄
Generally speaking, you won't end up using console unless it's to activate actual cheat codes or play with silly parameters. Unofficial Patch has done a great job of fixing lingering bugs over the years. Here's the list of possible cheats, if you end up getting frustrated with a fight and feel you need them: >>
And yes- it also has the breast size parameter listed. :P
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Bugs? Yes, there are plenty of them in the game. Get the fan patch, it fixes a lot of issues and makes it a far more pleasant, stable and complete experience. It's a great game despite the bugs, but only a really silly person would not get the fan patch.
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Even unpatched, the world, characters and quests would still make it worthy, I did that before I knew it exists (like a decade ago) - it's still a very, very solid buy for ~ 3-4€ as it usually is, and patch is available. Sadly Troika went bankrupt, but caring fans fixed a lot of issues :)
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The base game was all but unplayable when it released, due to memory issues, and had a slew of bugs on top of that. Modern computers can easily handle the memory usage, but the official patches still leave a lot of bugs unresolved; however, as Fnord said, the Unofficial Patch fixes the game to the point where the game is actually more stable than most games out there.
Speaking as someone who has played the game through excessive amounts of playthroughs (it is, after all, my favorite game of all time), I've never once encountered a single bug after applying the UP, which didn't appear to be a graphical bug related to a mod I'd added. That may not mean there aren't any, still, but it means they're rare enough that the game should compare favorably to other games out there. The game is not only one of the most stable of the Troika/Black Isle/Obsidian line, but 13 years of dedicated fan-patching has made it one of the most stable games I've ever played.
I can't tell you whether or not you'll manage to encounter a bug when you play, but I can say that it shouldn't be any more likely than for any other game.
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I voted Brrujah. But you could also do Toreador, Ventrue, or Gangrel. Any of those for a first playthrough.
Also, get the latest Wesp's Patch. He gives you the option of Plus Patch or Normal patch (not sure what he calls the normal patch),. The Plus Patch is for after you've played a bunch and want to see restored content and join the neverending debate of which possible changes help or hurt the game. Don't play Plus for now. But the normal patch helps immensely. It's like the unofficial patches for the elder scroll games. Don't play without them.
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For first try ild recommend Tremer .
They have balanced gameplay with interesting spells, not boring unstoppable tanks like Brujah and .Gangrel
Toreador and Ventrue has more focus on social skills and less on fighting, so it can be a little hard for a first run.
Nosferatu is for later runs, when you learn the areas and shortcuts and the sewers, because they must play stealth in populated areas
Aaaand Malkavian is for the most later runs, when you learn about the story, about the Lore and such stuff, because they are crazy clairvoyants and can spoil things in dialogues. But they gamepay is fun as hell)
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Thanks for the reply. It seems like the Tremere are the casters, so also not good at fighting. I like the built-in way of regaining blood. I'm also not sure I like being the "least trusted" clan.
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Tremere have combat and control spells both, and a ranged weapon emphasis. They're certainly one of the combat-oriented clans.
Ventrue are the worst at combat, though Malkavians, Toreador, and Nosferatu all also aren't focused on it as much as Brujah, Gangrel, and Temere.
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Troika had big plans for letting every clan have a lot of unique things with their campaigns. It only really happened for the Nosferatu and Malkavians. Tremere has one change, but it's not a major one, so a Tremere playthrough will be similar to any other clan other than Nosferatu and Malkavians.
Also, don't put to much weight on the whole caster thing. They are as good in melee as any other clan that don't have disciplines specifically made for close combat. I am going to disagree with Sooth about the whole ranged weapon emphasis. No clan has that, and in fact the game is very range weapon unfriendly. Melee is the way to go, no matter the clan. But Tremere at least has spells that can be used at range.
Tremere probably has the easiest end-game.
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Auspex gives up to +3 to Perception, which is the complementary stat to Ranged combat- so yes, certain clans do have a boost to ranged weapon usage. Likewise, the clans that get Auspex lack in physical disciplines, which rather emphasizes the focus.
The game is versatile enough that it's generally better to have a blend of weapon usage, and ranged combat generally is easier to take advantage of over melee when not playing a full melee emphasized build, but certain clans do have favorable disciplines over others.
It's weird you found ranged weapon usage unfriendly- most encounters have cover or large spaces, which makes them favorable. Rushing out into melee can often get you killed if there's a lot of enemies around, and you're not using control disciplines or a melee build- this is probably especially true in the Warehouse level. I didn't find any mechanical limitations or weaknesses to it, either. Hell, you can cheat out certain encounters using ranged weapons, due to the AI having much weaker responses to ranged combat than melee, and often rushing blind into it, and it's generally more useful against some bosses, which can be devastating if they hit you in melee.
Melee tends to be a "firmer" combat option, especially early on, but ranged is often a great way to work out that sweet spot between getting noticed after stealth kills, and moving into melee. Past that, damage is equitable between the styles, and lethality is much higher for guns. As far as single style focus, they really do tend to be preferable unless you've a clan that can boost melee.
I'll agree that Tremere are easy to play and really can be built any way, though [which is part of why they're near the top of my recommended play order]. Likewise, it's hard to slot out all the disciplines, so it's reasonable to build a spellcaster, ignore auspex emphasis, and go melee to flesh out the character. There's really no wrong way to approach the game (especially if you find histories compatible with your build variation)- well, other than not saving skill books until higher levels. That always was a terrible mechanic. :P
Of course, Tremere definitely aren't as effective at melee as Nossies, Brujah, and Gangrel. Gangrel are nearly impossible to die with and do heavy damage, Brujah have the speed and power to really dominate combat in a more precision-based way, and well, at least Nossies have Potency for heavy hitting.
Past Brujah and Gangrel's heavy unarmed/melee emphasis, I'd say it's really based fully on which combat style you find yourself more proficient with, or having fun with, over anything else- or, y'know, just what you find most handy for the specific encounter in question.
I suppose the key point is that no clan has a disadvantage compared to any other, though some have boosts which make them somewhat more suited for a specific approach than others.
It's impressive how rich VtMB turned out, given how it failed to meet ambitions. Could you imagine if VtMB had managed to get the development time to further flesh out the game? I wonder if one day we'll get another game that attempts the depth of setting and approach that VtMB offered.
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The problem is that even with high perception and all that jazz, you still only deal half damage against vampires and other supernatural creatures with bullets, making firearms bad against them.
It's a bit more complicated than that in reality. Firearms deals "lethal damage" against non-supernatural creatures, so they're great against humans, but their damage type is reduced to bashing damage against supernatural creatures, which makes them highly ineffective, as you tend to have a far higher soaking pool against bashing damage. The only exception is the Flamethrower, which deals aggravated damage.
And this is why firearms are bad in Bloodlines. Tremere are nice in that they have a built in ranged attack in the form of blood strike, which means that they can harm enemies at a range, but they should still not go with firearms, even if they've got Auspex (also, that +3 is only if you've maxed out asupex, which you really should not do).
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Well, there's not much I can argue with there, but Firearms really do work much better for survivability (assuming you're decent enough at kiting or using cover). The game tends to make it pretty easy to avoid damage if you're smart and stay at range. The game also doesn't restrict you to one or the other style, so emphasizing one that you find yourself proficient in doesn't really hurt, as you can readily mix it up. More important, I think, is the fact that spicing up how you approach the game as you play through it a half dozen, dozen, three dozen times, is any kind of change of pace. So if firearms really are as deficient as you say, then that'd only be a plus for them (for any kind of improved challenge), especially given my recommended play order's placement of non-physical clans.
My point is there really shouldn't be any feeling of needing to emphasize a particular playstyle, but if you do want to emphasize it, certain clans do have preferential disciplines for it.
Of course, flamethrower is kinda broken, as are any firearms from the Arsenal mod, so you can certainly make devastating use of firearms if desired. :P
Besides, just remember- you can safely kill the werewolf with ranged weapons if you're patient, but it'll bite off your head if you try that in melee. Of course, there's the more straightforward alternative approach to that encounter, but it emphasizes the fact that many encounters can be handled with firearms in a way they can't with melee.
In the end, I'd say a benefit of my play order is that you'd start with the melee clans, and so you'd have opportunities to play around with firearms while playing them, but no need to rely on them. Thus, if you find firearms attractive, you can emphasize them- or not- later on.
As I said, I wasn't trying to encourage any particular approach, just indicating which clans were more "suitable" for such attempts.
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And don't run out of bullets :P
It's quite easy to survive in melee as well, as long as you're not in a narrow corridor, you can dodge most attacks.
First time I encountered it, I tried killing it with firearms, but ran out of bullets.
If anything, in terms of play order, I would actually recommend going with Tremere first, because of how strong Blood Strike is. No matter how you spec your character, you can survive against the tougher encounters due to it. It's really overpowered. This means that you can safely just dump your points in social skills, lockpicking and computers for your first playthrough. Something that I would also recommend doing.
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To my mind Gangrels are the easiest for new players to work with (they're really just straightforward high-dps tanks, after all), but I'd put Tremere at second. Either way, they're certainly the two that come out on top for raw combat abilities. That said, part of my recommendation order is based on appeal, and Tremere are a fair bit more interesting to play than Brujah or Gangrel, hence why I'd put them after them in the order. Of course, perspective'll vary person to person on such things.
I never had issues with ammo, myself. I suppose part of that may boil down to accuracy [headshots are important], willingness to use melee on easier encounters, and finding ammo clips/shops earlier rather than later. As long as you're stingy and careful on aim, you should have plenty of ammo for encounters where enemies are spread out or riskier to get into melee with. Just a bit into the game, you should be able to stockpile ammo pretty easily- I don't recall ammo really being an issue after shops open up. Of course, carrying multiple guns is important, as well.
Well, the best part of VtMB was always its freedom of approach- in the end, melee or ranged really just boils down to preference.
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I only had issues with ammo when I tried to kill the wolfie.
The issue with firearms is still that they can be a bit of a beginners trap, making some encounters harder than they really should be.
And while Gangrel are strong, Tremere does have a huge edge towards the end-game as Blood strike deals damage based on % of max HP, not a fixed damage number. This makes this spell completely broken against bosses.
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If I remember well, I was Toreador. I was such a beauty. :B And it was so easy to manipulate others.
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Oh cool! Thanks for the link. As for the patch, did you add the switch to the launch parameters in the Steam client?
Right click on the game in Steam and select "Properties", click "Set launch options...", type in: "-game Unofficial_Patch" (including dash, exclude quotes), then click "OK".
Here's a video that may or may not help...
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You can go Brujah, Toreador or Gangrel for a straightforward playthrough. My first time was with a Toreador which opens up several dialog possibilities.
You can also try Ventrue and Tremere as they're a lil bit more complicated / intricate but they can also be played in a 1st playthrough.
That being said, definitely stay away from both Malkavian and Nosferatu. They require intimate knowledge of the dialogues and the map respectively,
plus their "talents" force a very indirect route of actions when compared to the rest of the clans, which requires prior knowledge of relative strengths and
weaknesses of the available disciplines, as well as the challenge presented ahead.
If only there were a La Sombra Antitribu.
Also, do yourself a favor and install the patch, it really helps.
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Don't play Nosferatu for a first playthrough -- you are correct that it sacrifices some character interaction. That being said, the character interaction that you do have as a Nosferatu is incredibly snarky, and I think you'll be able to appreciate it more after having played one of the clans with more "vanilla" dialogue.
The frenzy mechanic is not that hard to overcome; as long as you keep your humanity high, you won't have a very high possibility of frenzying, so I wouldn't ding clans Brujah and Gangrel by 1 just yet.
For a first-timer, I usually recommend either clans Brujah or Toreador, simply because they have Clerity, which makes combat much more easy. You can go Ventrue if you want, but there is a certain section in the game where you may have trouble keeping enough blood in you to proceed if you play as one. If you would like to go for a brawl build rather than a melee or ranged one, you should go with Gangrel.
A note on ammo and ranged: the end result of a bullet hitting something in this game is based upon both your mouse aim and dice rolls, so it doesn't matter too much if you're a terrible shot. At least in my experience. I've also never had to worry about running out of ammo, because there is plenty of it laying around and you can always buy more. Just check all the big crates.
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If you suck at aiming, celerity can help offset that since it's basically the "slow motion and super-speed" power. The Toreador has this, and other abilities that also make them good ranged fighters. Blood is also much easier to acquire with them thanks to their seductive abilities, but that's more of a convenience than a must-have.
If you're really concerned about aiming and ammo, though, you can mostly get by going all melee except for a handful of moments (mostly boss fights and other "big deal" events). You can just stockpile all the ammo, and save it to unload during those key times. You can do aggressive melee or rely mostly on stealth with just about any class (my first playthrough was a Toreador jack-of-all-trades weakling who relied on stealth for taking out little guys all the time in order to conserve health; it was really hard at some points but still do-able). Obviously some classes have powers that tilt the scales, but you can do what you like.
You really shouldn't be too concerned with frenzying, since it pretty much only happens when you're already doomed anyway. Maybe sometimes you'll get lucky and wipe out all of your foes, but not often it seems. If you play a melee character, you need to watch out for groups and make good use of tactics and your powers to single them out. If you get into a sticky situation, you've got to know when to heal and possibly run. You may burn through a lot of blood playing this way, so don't forget that you can feed in combat if your Strength and Brawling are good enough.
All that said, I haven't voted. I'd probably say Gangrel, Brujah, and Toreador are the best for you (in no particular order). But anything other than Malkavian or Nosferatu is probably fine for a good first-experience. Tremere are fairly different from the others, but they're overpowered so it's basically easy mode. The only offset to this, really, is how late you get access to a downtown haven.
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Thank you for the super-helpful response. I'm probably going with Toreador.
Still not completely sure if I'll go for more unarmed, melee, or ranged combat.
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Maybe you could do a stealth + guns approach? Since stealth kills only require that you are never detected, you don't need strength or really any defenses. Every stealth kill is a one-hit kill that prevents combat with that specific enemy. The bigger enemies/groups of enemies would be when you break out the guns and unload on them (that is, assuming that you can't puzzle out a way to stealth kill most of the groups without engaging most of them).
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Sounds fun. :)
I do like Stealth in general, as I mentioned. But I don't think I'm going to be able to avoid guns, and I guess if my skill is high enough, being a terrible shot might not be a big deal.
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If going that route, I'd definitely recommend Toreador. Celerity is just so, so useful for any kind of combat at all (or even for fleeing, if shit really gets bad...). Auspex gives you some Wits defense and (more importantly) Perception, and even Presence can be really damn useful since it debuffs enemies in several different ways in an area of effect (good for those group encounters!). Treat Strength and to a lesser extent Intelligence as dump stats, and focus on your Celerity, Auspex, Dexterity, and Perception while taking points in other areas sort of on an as-needed basis. Intelligence should only ever be the bare minimum for you to make use of the occasional research book that gives you free points in things.
Lockpicking is important in the game, but you can get pretty far with just Dexterity and the universal Blood Buff power so only put points into Security as needed. For almost all situations, Hacking can be avoided by finding hints for the passwords somewhere in the level (or you could, y'know, cheat and use a guide to spoil them for you if you don't care about things like that). If you do need to hack something and don't have enough Wits, Auspex can help you pull it off without needing to really invest too much (if at all) into Computer skill. Inspection is handy but IIRC everything it helps you find can be found if you just investigate your surroundings thoroughly on your own, and since it's derived from Perception and Investigation you probably won't need to invest in the latter (and Auspex can help here if you really need it). Haggle may be important to acquire weapons and ammo, but shouldn't matter at all until halfway into the game at the earliest. Again, you can get pretty far with just Manipulation here (which you'll want, even if it's lower priority), so try to avoid spending on Finance if possible. If it wasn't already clear, generally speaking you want to hoard your XP so you always have enough on you to spend on something to get over an obstacle, be it a tough combat encounter or something more skill-based or whatever. Only spend it when you have to, because you can't just grind it up. Treat money similarly. But feel free to spend blood if you need to, as that's a much more easily renewable resource (and you'll be able to seduce people somewhat to get some more easily).
They're a bit buggy, but I would suggest turning on the character Histories that let you customize yourself somewhat. Just make sure to only ever click once with them, don't browse around. Read up on them beforehand so you know which one you want. If you click more than once, stuff gets misapplied so you'll have to start chargen over (possibly even closing and re-opening the game) in order to truly reset them. Some possible suggestions would be Degenerate Gambler, Starving Artist, Runaway, or Cadaverous Flesh. For this build where you probably won't be fighting unarmed at all, Runaway should be strictly better than Degenerate Gambler because the downside will never effect you. I'd probably pick that if I was playing, or Starving Artist. Here's a handy link that I've been using to refresh my memory for this comment.
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Seriously, thank you for all of your time discussing this with me.
Can interest you in anything from my trade list? It doesn't look like you're playing games very much these days, but if you see something there you think you'd actually play, then I'm happy to give it to you as a thank you.
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I'm actually playing this right now (I'm near the end of the game). I took the personality quiz thing and got Tremere. I knew nothing of this game or clans, so I went with it. Fnord has been the one that helps me out (or listens to my adventures), so I would recommend asking him as well.
I suck at firearms/guns, so Tremere has been really nice for me. Bloodbuffing to up my stats temporarily and then melee-ing the enemies is my preferred method of battle (I prefer melee fighting in most games). Guns are actually not great if you're up against a non-human (unless you have one of the better ones near the end of the game), but blades work pretty well on them. Blood Purge is useful against tougher enemies or bosses since it can temporarily paralyze them (REALLY useful for the enemies that "teleport" or move around a lot).
Hope this helps a bit!
Side note: I was told that at the beginning of the game, putting your points into the social or lockpicking abilities make the game more interesting. Worked out well for me, though its my first playthrough so I don't know how it would be otherwise. Lockpicking is nice though because it allows you to get into certain areas sooner (or get items you wouldnt be able to get until later).
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I don't know if you remember this, but I won the game from you!!! So thank you again! =)
I think I'm going to go Toreador, but being a caster definitely has its advantages.
As a Toreador, I will likely choose some social skills. Maybe I'll try some lockpicking as well. ;-)
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I'm so curious how a patched game works, I played unpatched when I barely knew about games and upkeeping them ; so just as a try it took 15++ minutes of murdering people in the middle of Downtown with Tremere blood spells that I broke the Masquarade 5 times, and basically never got enraged with a Gangrel. Oh, and nobody cared mechanics-wise that my Nosferatu was ugly :D So a lot of things were quite broken. Maybe even the getting blood part as well, I just sucked every second guy dead while fighting, easy and sure kill and I never lacked blood :D
( and I would be interested as well in your stories if anything nice happened :P )
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Brujah, Toreador, or Tremere are good if you want to have an easy time with the game and enjoy the story.
Gangrel and Ventrue are a more challenging experience, but still good for first-timers
Nosferatu's drawback lets you experience less of the things that the game is known for - the NPCs and setting. It's nice to have them exist in the lore, but I can't recommend them for a first playthrough because you won't see as much of what the game is about.
Malkavian alternates between nonsense dialogue and major spoilers cloaked in metaphors. I'd only recommend them if you think you'd enjoy the insane dialogue options and don't mind (for example, this doesn't actually happen) having someone who will betray you being called "Judas" and "The stray disciple" the second you meet them for the first time.
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If there's ever a game you're going to replay this is one of the games that I'd most recommend replaying even to someone who normally doesn't do that. And whatever you do, you owe it to yourself to play as Malkavian sometime in your life.
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Something that could help you decide: there are few factions in-game, some clans will feel more... hmm... role-play-y if you play as a clan supporting them.
Some clans have some "natural in-blood pulls" to support one in-game faction over others - spoilered part has names of characters and it might feel like it is a spoiler - I'm not sure if if can really spoiler the game, but just in case.
There's the Camarilla's "Prince LaCroix" faction, and since he's Ventrue it would feel most immersive to support him as Ventrue.
There's the Camarilla's "Strauss" faction, which would feel most like home for Tremere.
There's the Independent Vampires' "Anarchs" faction, which make for a cozy home for Brujah and Gangrel members.
Of course, there's nothing stopping Ventrue to go Anarch or such.
But from "standard" clans Toreador feels like the one without natural "you should support THIS guys" pull.
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Thank you for the spoiler protection. Didn't read, but I bet others were interested. :)
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Malkavian is very fun clan however Im not really sure if you should play it on first playthrough. See the problem is (or might be) that they understand world a little bit different way. Its not really THAT big problem but some people might find it a little harder to understand some don't. Personally I had no problems with it as I understood what Im going to say if I choose x,y,z dialogue option. Honestly this weird way of speaking was more entertaining for me than standard dialogue.
Toreador and Tremere were fine normal clans.
and don't play Nosferatu, just don't. you'll ruin yourself fun.
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Where were you on 6-February-2016? ;-)
Anyway, while I have some theories, there's no obvious reason and I didn't start using User Notes until much later, so I removed you from BL.
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[Edit: Okay, I've pretty much settled on Toreador, but I'm still curious in your opinions, and also on recommended playstyles and unarmed vs. melee vs. ranged.]
[Yet another edit: I will probably only have one playthrough of the game, sadly. Although I'd love to experience several clans.]
[Why not? Another edit: I probably won't run with any mods except for the Unofficial Patch (basic), if that even counts.]
Please no spoilers in your comments, even small ones. I know nothing of the plot and characters and hope to keep it that way. :)
Okay, VtMB fanboys and fangirls, I'm trying out this game for the first time...can't even even decide on a clan or playstyle. I know no Malks for first playthough. Also won't choose Tremere-- sounds like a different ball of wax. Are there any clearly inferior classes I should avoid? Any "easier" ones? I kind of suck with aiming (I'm a spaz) and tend to run out of ammo. The stealthiness of Nosferatu appeals to me, but I don't want to sacrifice character interaction since I'd be so ugly. :p Frenzying and cleaning up the mess it makes doesn't really appeal to me, so that was -1 for Brujah and Gangrel, but it also doesn't rule them out. Not sure too much about the humanity dynamic, so hard to evaluate Toreador. Ventrue could work-- I guess I'd be doing a lot of Dominance. Thoughts?
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