What do you care about?
Interesting, and I definitely noticed quite a few times after Humble Choice/Bundle, some very nice games quickly being given two ** just for being featured in it, which feels wrong.
But I'm just here to eat popcorn and listen to people's arguments
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Well, it's not just "two ** just for being featured in" bundles, but for being almost immediately resold from bundles for a pretty cheap price on gray sites. Still, as we already can see from the pool results, not the thing, that most of us appreciated. Enjoy your popcorn :)
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Sorry for oversimplifying.
I guess I was trying to say for casual bundle buyer and SG user that's what the correlation might seem like - part of the bundle they spent money on to gift to people now, for no "clearly conveyed" reason, worth nothing.
Basically part of the problem you mentioned yourself, but badly phrased by me)
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Right. Golwar's suggestion that for the first gifted copy of such games user would still get a traditional 15% CV would solve this, but this would probably require some programming changes made by CG.
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Still, as we already can see from the pool results, not the thing, that most of us appreciated.
I wouldn't consider the pool results as representative for... anything.
The response "I want quality giveaways" doesn't necessitate any endorsement of anything you wrote in the main post; even assuming that everyone who voted actually read the post, it's vague enough that it could be interpreted in any way. It's basically a sentiment that most people using this site would share, because who wouldn't want "quality games" (whatever that may mean for each individual user) to be given away?
Disregardign the joke/potato response, the only alternative comes with a condition: "If you vote for this, don't join my GA!" That's not a hard rule, but I would expect it to dismay more than a few people from picking it.
So it's no surprise to me that the clearly agreeable response is in the far lead, and I wouldn't read anything into it.
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I see it a lot lately with games from fanatical or humble, and i am like where was this ever free or whatever?
I simply then just don't gift it, i don't need the CV anymore, but for me it doesn't feel right to gift such stuff or crap 1p games.
And yes there are many decent games with 2 **.
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I don't mind extremely cheap grey market purchases being flagged as 0 CV.
But I could imagine a rather simple solution/compromise: The first giveaway for such a game gets the traditional 0.15 CV. Every further copy gets 0.
This would grant regular bundle buyers their 'reward' while still effectively ruining the efforts of those trying to abuse the situation.
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This. I like this.
Probably hard to implement into existing structure tho
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The first GA exception could be a solution here. Another one could be to exempt games, that have 80% SteamDB rating f.e. I'm pretty sure though, that what we have now is a mess, that needs to be clarified and clearly explained.
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As far as i know the rules haven't changed and no mod "interpret the rules now different as 1 year ago" or something like that.
Report the Save, Dollar, RPG bundles/games if they are listed as full value or if they reached -98% to be, maybe, set to free, or -99% to be absolute clearly set to free (I don't have time to look into them, so can't say more to this point).
The HB monthly games get sold from many people on grey market sites and one known twitch streamer, let's call him shit squad godfather, give them away for free (after people watch his crap streams for X hours and buy then with the recieved "watch time payment" in his shop the games for free). He do it in a amount that the free listing get triggered.
1.)
Yes
2.)
They change retroactively, not from interest how many years, if they get/have the fitting informations about games were available for free or very cheap (= reduced/bundled)
I, for example, reported a game, years ago, that was listed as full value. Many of the old (exploit/abuse) users gave away in high amounts and gathered with it up to 3000cv (yes, so much). It was set to 0cv and it was nice to see the, not really earned, cv erased. Years too late but better late as never to make it fair(er) for everyone.
3.)
-95% = reduced cv
-98% = free in some cases. Depending on the amount of made GAs and on the amount of exploiting. (For example, Dandy Ace was available with -98% and got still only set to reduced)
-99% = free
Regional prices are in the focus too, IF some groups of people exploit them. For example when a bunch of people from one country (people with turkish regional stores are strong with doing this...) gift 5 copies of 40p/50p games. If only a few use the regional prices and not abuse them to maximize their gain, they aren't from interest for the mods.
Freebie sites that give the games away must reach 1k copies that this games gets marked as freebies. All sites that give a game for free will be counted together. For example 10 sites that give each 100 copies would fullfill the freebie limit of 1k and the game(s) would be set to free.
If only 10 copies of a game get gifted for free somewhere, nothing would happen on sg.
The $50 overpriced junk/fake games aren't handled different as any other game.
Only with a, known, source with the needed -95% (bundled) or -98%/-99% (free) they do something.
So, sadly, nothing will be done only because the publisher/dev have a bunch of other overpriced fake games listed.
The mods don't go into total details to have a possibility to do something when it gets abused/exploited.
I don't think that's a perfect way to handle it, so i share above the infos that i collected in many years and with the experience of over 1,1k add game tickets that i done.
Till -90% are, in 99,9% of the cases, all secure to give away without to lose the gained cv retroactively.
Of course are the cases excluded where the game was available for free.
4.)
Don't exist
Hope this detailed infos help.
I am away now, (paid) work calling.
Ps.: Good luck that a mod write something to it. Partly understandable because the users start to discuss with and attack that mod (none is willing to be a target for some peoples anger...^^).
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Thank you for your comprehensive answer.
When you say, that those are the rules and that they didn't change, I believe you, because I know, that you are spending a lot of time trying to prevent abuse on this site. However, if so, they should be listed or at least linked in the FAQ. I don't think, that they are easily accessible now.
As you know, I've been here (and pretty active) for quite a while - over 6 years to be exact. Looking from this perspective I'm quite sure, that even if the rules have not changed in all those years, then currently we do have many more quality games from recent bundles being affected by those rules. Whatever the cause may be (more active mods, rule changes, gray site pricing changes) it's my feeling, that it has a negative impact on the amount of interesting GAs being created. So maybe we should try to make some changes, like the 1st GA exemption proposed by Golwar? That's what this discussion is mainly about for me.
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Twitch streamers like the shit squad one, different regional store abuse possibility and different freebie sites appeared, which changed the outcome,a s example for a part of the HB monthy games.
I see it as you, that the handling does fit worse as in the past (and it was far from perfect at that time too) and i see it the same way that it influence the site negative.
Golwars approach would be a possibility.
A other approach would be to suspend the accounts that exploit/abuse the cv system, clearly/obviously, each day.
They aren't so many users that do it but if they wouldn't destroy the possibilities for the honest normal people it could be handled much more relaxed.
But did you seen that cg done much programming work in general?
And if he done work, did it influence only his income aspect in 99,9% of the cases?
So with other words, i don't expect anymore that something happens or he, for example, made a tiny script to read automaticly all new listed games of different shady ru stores, that i gave the mods and the mods him, 4? 5? years ago, and list them for the mods to add them manual or list them automatical without a mod are needed. Would had been a lot lesser work for the mods and people like me (i gave up years ago to report such games [not worth to invest each day hours of limited lifetime for such stuff when a script could handle it in a few minutes])
People from my group made scripts for that stuff and other things in a weekend, and all of them were only students and not finished programmers.
Good luck that the discussion lead to something, above the member level.
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Because of these rules ... Number of GA has gone down significantly
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for me its rising bundle prices and world going to shit well trump rapes the government where i live selling out chunks to privatize everything to make a quick $. hardly buy anything anymore, have less money and everything costs 2/3 times the price at least. over 100% of the money i make in a month went to food in may and i ate out at fast food once
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I don't use Lootboy anymore, but I did purchase bundles from them to giveaway here, still worked out at 1euro per key. Some of those went 0 CV retroactively. That usen't to be the case. Lootboy was always considered "bundled" because you actually have to work for, or pay for the keys. It's not instantaneous. And those games weren't trash.
I'm not one who cares that much about CV, but I found that kinda unfair. And it's just encouraging people not to buy those keys in the first place. That's not why I no longer bother with Lootboy though. When I had a small library, I got games that I wanted to keep too. Now it's not worth it for me. Feels like people are giving away more trash now from cheaper bundles on lesser known sites. And it might be down to the changes in how things are considered "0 CV."
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The real big brain move is to just hold onto your keys for 5-10 years. By that time, you can assume all your keys are probably 0 CV anyways. This way you can still make giveaways for super cheap and you never have to worry about if you're gaming the system efficiently. ¯\(ツ)/¯
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There has been no change in policy. What I personally feel has changed is:
- The number of active moderators dealing with CV changes. A couple of years ago new moderators were added to the team which meant there were more active mods.
- The number of users reporting games that they think should be Reduced or 0CV. Most of the add game to list tickets waiting to be dealt with are users reporting games that they feel the CV is incorrect for, some from many years ago. There is also a thread highlighting games perceived to have inflated value/CV on Steam
- The number of sites giving away games has increased in recent years, or finding them has become easier.
- The number of bundles, bundle tracking sites, grey market sites, grey market tracking sites, region hopping users, etc.
All of these affect the number of games that have their CV changed or the number that moderators know about, which previously may have gone unnoticed.
There are no publicly set % for reduced CV and 0CV. This post from 2023 highlights some of the issues that relate to regional pricing and the now common practice of region hopping. If a hard % was publicly set, there would always be a way to get around it and manipulate the system. The methods used now and those used in 2 years time will likely be different, another issue with setting very detailed guidelines.
Ps.: Good luck that a mod write something to it. Partly understandable because the users start to discuss with and attack that mod (none is willing to be a target for some peoples anger...^^).
Very much this. Regardless of how CV is addressed, it's not possible to please everyone:
- No CV changes at all - anger at users who rise up the levels quickly due to giveaways, bundles, etc.
- CV changes that affect a particular user - anger because it's not fair that they are affected and other users aren't
- Not all games are caught - anger at an inconsistent implementation of the CV changes
- Don't change games from old giveaways, bundles, etc. - anger that old users 'got away with it'
- Change games from old giveaways, bundles, etc. - anger that CV is changed retroactively and it's unfair
There are posts every couple of months complaining about a drop in CV and tickets every day about missed bundles and giveaways. I expect similar reactions to the last time I commented on a post like this. The alternative is not posting, then there are complaints that mods ignore questions.
Basically, give away extra copies of games you have, games you enjoyed, games you want other people to play. If you are buying games specifically to level up, you'll likely get frustrated at some point because you don't get the CV you thought you would.
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Thank you for the detailed reply. I was thinking that a set percentage and fixed rules would help settle the matter. I hadn't taken regional pricing into account and the way some people will try and sneak around the rules. I guess there is just no perfect system, and whichever way we move forward will please some and displease others.
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The number of users reporting games that they think should be Reduced or 0CV. Most of the add game to list tickets waiting to be dealt with are users reporting games that they feel the CV is incorrect for, some from many years ago.
I try to keep the reports fresh :P and for the public eye, my go-to method is checking how much a 50€ game cost previously, if a new GA pops up. There are way too many that started out 1€ and ended up costing 40-50€ within months, it's clearly an issue.
Sometimes double-checking my own giveaways from bundles, when they aren't on the list.
I don't have time, energy, or "a want" to start checking grey markets...
Thanks for dealing with my tickets quite often, smythe!
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I sure hope, that you don't feel, that in this thread there is any anger directed at you or any other Mod. It's my impression, than in our community the Mods are generally kept in high respect, and I sure hope, that this will not change. That some of us have different concerns, about how the site is run, certainly does not mean, that we are angry with you :).
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I'm not sure what exactly is affected or not. But when it comes to Humble Choice, every month, when the bundle is released, a large number of the included games end up in giveaways on Steamgifts. This likely represents a significant portion of the giveaways on Steamgifts.
The change I have personally noticed is that, for the past few months, many of these games have been retroactively marked as giving 0 CV, sometimes at a date corresponding to just a few days (or hours) after the bundle's release – which really discourages users from creating giveaways.
This might be due to some people (streamer) purchasing the bundle multiple times and offering the games for free elsewhere (on some Twitch channels). But ultimately, that doesn't really matter.
I don't know if this issue will persist or resolve itself over time. But Steamgifts would be wise to take action so that regular users (who purchase bundles for normal use) can at least earn a bit of CV when they're creating giveaways... otherwise, in my opinion, you can expect even fewer giveaways on Steamgifts.
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I think there's a lot of improvements that can be made with the CV system but it mostly just boils down to the small moderation team (shout out to them and smythe in particular since I see him dealing with most of them) and cg's lack of investment into this platform. The site is running like steamtrades (arguably better than steamtrades) with very few development time changes being made so just a thing we have to live with. I've noticed a fair number of games that have been given 100s of copies on this site or free on high profile sites like Alienware Arena (and more recently, Lenovo Legion) of that are still a higher CV than it should be (following Masafor's guideline experience), even after more than a year, since part of this is also on not enough members filing tickets.
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I'm with you here, some of this criteria is negatively affecting giveaways on the site(by making them not happen anymore). Like it or not some users here are motivated by CV, and those of us who are more active are not as much(as we will have long passed the point of getting any form of return from it).
same with reduced CV criteria on BYOB's, look at this recent triple pack, why are $5 games being in a $1 each bundle being set to reduced CV. Only the more expensive games(aka the $20+ stuff) should get set to reduced to encourage people grabbing the cheaper stuff to for giveaways. All that appears to be looked at is best possible set of games discount and the whole bundle gets shot... which should NOT be the case for BYOB's(tiered bundles being tiered... is all or nothing)
regional pricing to being used as well on top of gray market... because at least 1 currency converted to USD exceeds a % discount some stuff never free, never highly % discounted gets hit down to 0 or reduced(most recent would be source of madness, 90% discount... but some regional pricing got closer to 95% after conversion(still 90% discount in those regions) and it is now reduced).
there doesn't appear to be any precise %(its around 95% for reduced(I have seen as low as 93% discount bundles get hit to reduced), 98% for 0), no set number of copies for giveaways(I have seen 250 copies among a 20k random game giveaway get hit to 0cv... I thought the number was 1k... but apparently its not)
also looking at RPG MAKER VX ACE... it looks like this bundle is the cause of it since it was in a $1 tier.
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Yup, that's the bundle... but my point was, that when the 2022 bundle launched, the no value tag has not been applied, yet, so in the best case it has been applied retroactively for 5 years. One of the questions is, how far back should those changes go. For example, should they now also affect games included in $ 00.1+ first May 2010 (so not only way before I joined, but also before Smythe has joined) The Humble Indie Bundle, which were then, in response to this bundle, set to reduced CV, not to no value?
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"anything can be bundled any time and be marked with any date retroactively".
nine years ago there were a bundle rule that steamgifts never cared to follow.
they removed just because bundle list got utterly aleatory. lol.
this said, nothing actually has changed since ever.
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Honestly the whole system should be replaced with one that gives cv based on how many active and contributing members have a game wishlisted. Giving little or no CV for older games everyone still wants, but tons of CV for games no one wants just because they haven't been bundled, is stupid. The current system encourages people to give away junk (so long as unbundled), and requires a ridiculous amount of micro management.
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Recently we have some serious and at times still erratic changes in the interpretation of this pretty vague rule. Hence I would like to have the matter clarified.
First thing is, that overpriced worthless games ("$50 junk") are getting set to 0 CV en masse. This is pretty clear cut and probably doesn't cause much controversy.
The other thing is, and this I have quite a few doubts about and certainly I would like to be precisely defined, that games, that we can purchase "too cheaply", are recently changed to no value instead of earlier being set to reduced value. As I have written in some other thread 2 months ago:
This seems to happen to those games, when they go above 97% discount on gray sites. Yet we still have official bundles with at least as good or even way better discounts, that after release are set to reduced CV, not 0 CV, like very recent Safe In Our World Charity Bundle 2025 or a bit older but offering much better discounts Dollar Collections Games (Nov 2024). Will all games in those bundles, as I mentioned them here, be also retroactively changed to 0 CV or is it a crusade against gray site purchases? And how about infamous for inflated CV gains $1 RPG Maker bundles? RPG Maker Bundle from 2022 still giving reduced CV... but then RPG Maker VX Ace still listed in 2022 RPG Maker Resurgence Bundle as reduced CV, now is listed as no value with effective date Oct 4, 2017.
So from my point of view currently it's a mess. We should discuss, if this new policy makes sense for us, and if it stands, it should be defined in a precise way. Buying bundles and games for GAs we should know, what credit we will get for them, if any. Some of us no longer care about it (IMO, there is no much profit in getting over lvl 5), but for some of us it's important.
OFC, the first question is, if this is really the new policy on which the moderating team has decided or are those the actions of a single moderator having a particular point of view. But if this is the policy, that will stand, I would expect precise rules to be established and answers to the following questions:
1) Are the thresholds for assigning reduced value and no value the same for the official bundles and gray sites purchases of single games?
2) How far back will those changes be applied both in case of previous bundles and past gray site purchases? Will for example $1 bundles from 10 years ago also be affected?
3) What are the precise discount thresholds for assigning reduced value and no value to bundles and gray site purchases, except "$50 junk" games?
4) Where can we find the listing for gray sites prices with dates, when the low prices have been set, so we could decide, if buying the game will be safe from a future retroactive CV cuts?
Lvl 3 obligatory GA for such a wall of text: Nova Lands ;)
/0NWqe/
/31542/
PS. And, yes, I have originally planned to put here a very decent $50 game, that I could get at a deep discount... but realizing, that almost for sure it will be turned into 0 CV from before the beginning of my GA, I have decided to go with a cheaper option.
PS2. If I recall correctly, this actually is the second time, that the rules about no value games are being tightened in the past few years - the first of them being the decision to turn all games gained from Lootboy and from IG's Gameplay Giveaways to no value.
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