Do you check activated games/ multiple wins of same game? http://www.sgtools.info/activation
I just do not make low level public givs which solves most of problems :)
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I'm learning this week the hard way that that doesn't work well neither.
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I love your anti-bot rules!
Pity you'll probably have to do some rerolls since not everyone is following them :/
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Unfortunately I'm pretty sure that doesn't grant a reroll, but my now empty blacklist is gonna wellcome a lot of new people by the end of the week :/
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I think most of the lvl 0 accounts, and even lvl 1s are just bots or accounts made to get more chances to win games. They then use the keys on their main account or sell them or use them for other giveaways so they can level up their main account.
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It's not easy to get 100$ worth of nun bundled , non free and full value games into an account and use it as a bot, I don't think there are bots.
Even if someone managed to do this, I'm sure he would be detected using ip/browser data
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I don't think I've spent 100$ on steam. Most of my games I got for free, even before joining steamgifts.
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That requirement is kinda new. A couple of years ago, you could create an account with 100$ worth of games which included the free given games and the bundled ones.
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I've checked a lot of winners and I've seen quite a few that didn't look like they met the $100 non-bundle rule - not all were old accounts from when requirements were different. Although I think the 'free weekend' exploit got fixed I'm fairly sure people are still finding ways to sneak accounts in very cheaply.
I've also gotten a number of users permabanned for multiple unactivated wins. Many of those were the same accounts that didn't appear to own many games and that also didn't appear to have many people on their friends lists. And usually it wasn't hard to spot a higher level steamgifts user on that short friends list who appeared to be gifting many of their unactivated wins - although obviously the valuable wins were going somewhere else...
It's hard to prove but I don't just think there are bots here - I think there are well organised botnets.
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Just bots. With level 0 giveaways averaging in four digits of entries at worst, it would take a lot of time and money to set up enough eligible accounts and you'd also have to rely on pure randomness in both wins and that gifters won't check and get you busted. So you'll see mostly individuals trying to use alts here, for the small profitz™.
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Yeah, but the accounts I've seen have got the most unactivated wins have gotten most of their games from relatively low entry private giveaways - trains and puzzles posted in discussions (including mine). If you're targeting giveaways with two or low three digit entries (and there appear to be Steam groups to help find those) with your bot army then it becomes shooting fish in a barrel - and more worthwhile as people often put nicer games in such giveaways as they are 'safer' than public giveaways.
Maybe I am just paranoid about the scale of the problem - but I have seen some real bullshit.
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Those have to get in the groups first, or someone needs to get the link to the invite-only.
The first one is usually a sign of CV exploit, actually, when a small group gifts a ton of games among themselves but never activate them. Granted, there are a few smaller groups which are mostly formed around the idea that the group admin wants others to create group-exclusives so he can have a good chance at winning them, but those groups usually devour themselves eventually.
The second type, invite-onlies, are usually just shared. Using SGTools is an easy way to prevent those, since if you manage to report enough of them, then they learn to never share your links. It is also a relatively small thing, as we only knew about one Russian forum or VKontakte room that did this regularly and recently Chinese started to pop up in small numbers here and there (I have no idea if they use a forum, QZone, or just a few individuals share among themselves). But by now even these numbers are single-digits and contribute a few percent at worst to the entry numbers.
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To clarify - I'm not talking at all about people winning games from groups. I'm talking about groups that appear to share links to invite only train and puzzle giveaways. And also appear to discuss exploits to bypass the $100 SG entry requirement.
SGTools has cut down on the problems that I've seen, but it's still not something that everybody uses or even approves of. And it's something that comes in surges and then fall off anyway, I've always assumed as support crack down on exploits that allow alt accounts onto the site cheaply.
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Could be; after all, they are getting found, and once they are found, they can be dealt with. Sadly Steam itself has successfully spawned this behaviour pattern when they introduced their market, and it seeps into all associated sites, so it is still a never-ending combat. :/
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It's certainly part of a wider problem. I certainly don't think people are putting effort into alt accounts just to use them on SG, but it is another place for some people to use them for farming.
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You totally got a point, that actually starts to bother me, and what's even worse is that it's hard to get proofs even though you know they're fake accounts
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I'm convinced statistically that various things are going on - but proving it in individual cases is obviously something else entirely.
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is there no system in place to catch smurf accounts? At the very least i found a reason to start using a blacklist. I still feel bad reporting anyone but this type of behavior hurts the community as a whole. Im still lvl1 but I think all my new GAs will be 2+ . I thouight about putting a comment on my GAs saying I will check for this sort of thing but i feel like ill just end up on a million BLs
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(Ignoring the fact I'm a fithy leecher:)
I agree with checking winners accounts or using those steamgifts tools things that check if all games were activated.
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Just spend some money on humble. TBH though it still takes a while to rank up this way. YOur prolly better off buying a game with a coupon or just goin in on a full priced AAA title.
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What would your suggestion be for identifying users with multiple accounts? It is easier said than done.
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Me? I have no idea. I guess accounts with lots of activity/comments and giveaways are an indicator of an active account.
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I'm just a normal hamburger user!
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Burguers are great. What's the deal with you by the way? You stick around just to hang out with the "peeps"?
Love burguers ^^
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Yep, except for groups that I know don't allow rule breakers.
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Trying to maintain a 66%+ public ratio has its downsides. :)
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So that's what level 10 users do when there's nothing more to achieve on this site! I^v^I
Jokes aside, I am in awe of your generosity, man...
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Yes, but try spreading yours around, since (like me) you also win from various levels. ;)
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Already do. My invite-only, whitelist and group GAs rarely get Level 0 winners.
And "also win" is a bit of a stretch recently ;-)
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My invite-only, whitelist and group GAs rarely get Level 0 winners.
There's a difference between making them level 0 and getting higher level winners, and making them for other levels.
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Yes, there's a technical difference, if you're into technicalities.
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Yep, and mostly level 0. It… has its downsides. But I try to combat it with traceable gift links and sending out only a few normal keys each week.
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What's amazing is that the number of request new winner re-roll support requests has dropped down that low.
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It is actually my own stat, not the global one. :3
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Yeah, I always check them. I'll probably stick to group giveaways from now on though tbh.
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I have found autojoin user on level 7 and had a reroll ticket sent and approved for a level 8 (or was it 9?… bad memory), who was suspended for rule-breaking. I have seen level 10 users who would fail an SGTools basic infraction filter.
Levels mean little; increasing the level cap only makes you somewhat less likely to run into a rule-breaker, that is all.
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inv only GA
https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/klfea/okhlos
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I do if the person has under 100 giveaways made, I consider if the person has more giveaways won than made and has under 200 made. Over 200 made most of the time it's nearly certain they aren't rule breakers so I don't feel like checking but maybe if it's a good AAA game that I'm giving away I might consider doing that.
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I always check my winners and just yesterday asked for a reroll.
I don't mind bad ratios since not everyone can afford to giveaway stuff (yes, I know you can get games without spending actual money) but not activating your wins is disrespectful to the other users and to the spirit of this community.
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The spirit of the community is to giveaway games for free, if you are judging who gets them, you are going against it. I don't check, even if they sell it is making them happy because of the money and someone will play it, after all you are GIFTING, so i see SGTools more like a cancer than something good as i do with Blacklists. On the other hand i DO understand that with no rules and measures the system may be exploited to the point of destroying the ''community'' itself.
Guess what i am trying to say is that being too strict is as bad for the community as the people who only want to take unfair advantage.
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How does being strict harms a community if only rulebreakers are effected? That's like saying that if I get fined for speeding, that hurts everyone.
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I don't create GAs using SGTools, my blacklist is empty, and I am very lenient on past offences. :)
I also try to do as many public GAs as possible to give people that give less the opportunity to win, even though I stopped doing level 0 a while back.
I understand what you are saying but the most basic rule of this site is that one gives real games and the other activates their wins.
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Uax0F/guys-please-check-your-giveaway-winners-for-unactivated-wins-before-delivering-your-gifts
A lot of people don't check.
Either because they don't know or don't care i.e don't want the hassle.
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I used to do it, but more than 90% of the time I just got the 'they've already been suspended for this' response from support, so I stopped caring.
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I just got this (Support)
I've suspended the user.
Thanks for your report!
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I always check.
PSA;
If you enter my giveaway and have broken the rules, I might give you the game, but you will get blacklisted.
Only times I don't blacklist rulebreakers is when they've only had like one infraction 4 years ago and have seemed to learn to play by the rules since then.
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I might start posting this as well....either way most my GAs will be lvl2+ from here on out
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Anyone who wins one of my giveaways will be inspected thoroughly.
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I just imagined a doctor putting on their rubber gloves when I read that ;)
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Yes and I caused 2 users permabaned. Tbh, it makes me sad.
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I always check, not only winners of my giveaways, but random entries as well, and even random users from random giveaways, except for groups I know don't allow rule-breakers among their members.
I also have the habit to "farm" blacklists, whenever I stumble upon a rule-breaker... currently close to 400, and I'm even lenient on multiple wins for problematic games, like DOTA 2 (when it was invite-based) and games from dev-sponsored giveaways.
Not that I have much use for that, as I'm focused on group giveaways right now, but I'll eventually start making more publics sometimes in the future, so I want to be prepared in advance.
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Miku weeb needs to clean his list
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I always check my winners with a combination of SGTools and manual checks. :-)
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thanks for invite,
i'm always checking of course :)
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yes, people not using sgtools giveaways must check their giveaways for rule breakers and help the site become a better place.
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I started checking, and I'll check all my giveaways from now on.
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I just check the winner doesn't have the game. I don't give a damn about his history.
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Their history is a very good indicator that they don't have the game they just won. If they regularly win games they have they are likely to end up with multiple wins.
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True, but what I mean is I don't care about the winner's behavior for their past winnings as long as they uphold the rules for mine, meaning they don't have the game, be it won or in their Steam profile. Also I think it's each giveaway creator's duty to check the winner for their giveaway.
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Basic SGTools is far easier than checking 110 GA's :-)
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Question is if you want to make SG a cleaner place, or just keep the unclea filt less welcome people out of your giveaways :P
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The "unclean" can get their act together, fix their infractions and join her giveaways.
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Practically always possible with unactivated wins; very possible with multiple wins if you're willing to bribe the GA creators -)
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well, practically yes.
will it ever happen? doubtfull, as most of those users could give a shite (yes, the "e" is on purpose, it's the more stinky kind of shit)
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It does happen and is not that unusual. I should check with knsys if he has some stats about this.
And shite isn't smellier than shit. It's just a different (British) stench.
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have you ever smelled shite?!
and remember, i know where you live ;)
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Only been to England once, and whatever amount of shite was around, the rain took care of it ;-)
חרא, עכשיו באמת הסתבכתי!
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there was almost no rain when i was in UK.
but don't remember any specific shite.
if you take a dump in the uk it's also Shite? or exported shit?
edit: hahaha, holy shit :D
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That's irrelevant in this case, as I was commenting about that not using SGTools can point out infractors who can be reported, while using it just keeps up the status quo by locking them outside.
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Locking them outside encourages them clean their act, which is even better than just creating an endless cycle of report->deny tickets that just wastes support and GA creators time.
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And does nothing to get the community better as the actual infractors gets ignored for the sake of comfort. Easier to blacklist them so no cycle :P
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They don't get ignored. It's a self service system that gets them to fix their infractions to be able to join these giveaways.
Blacklisting is completely useless to tackle this problem. There are too many users on this site who have infractions, and you are only likely to blacklist them after they already joined and won your giveaway.
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How does using SGTools help to find new rulebreakers? How will that help support do it's job and punish them? It's just making a safe place for your giveaways with the delusional promise that a fraction of the rulebreakers will eventually fix itself. Additionally as for fact yes, it ignores the problems of having the vast majority of them unpunished. You're serving yourself, not the community with that. Finding and pointing out rulebreakers so the support can do it job is what makes the userbase better, not just waiting for the problem to fix itself.
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How does using SGTools help to find new rulebreakers?
I don't need to find them. They found out themselves that they need to fix their way.
How will that help support do it's job and punish them?
Better let people fix their errors than punish them.
It's just making a safe place for your giveaways with the delusional promise that a fraction of the rulebreakers will eventually fix itself.
Many of them do. How many I don't know, and neither do you.
Additionally as for fact yes, it ignores the problems of having the vast majority of them unpunished. You're serving yourself, not the community with that.
I already explained how SGTools GAs are helping the community.
In addition, I don't do only SGTools GAs you know. Out of 800 GAs I created 113 tickets to request new winners and almost all of them are for winner past's infractions. Not good enough for you? I'd be curious to know your numbers to know what is good enough.
Finding and pointing out rulebreakers so the support can do it job is what makes the userbase better, not just waiting for the problem to fix itself.
Doing it ad infinitum for every GA won by users who no longer break the rules (but there's no way to know this) is a huge waste of time of support and GA creators, but I guess the time of rule breakers and bots is much more important.
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I don't need to find them. They found out themselves that they need to fix their way.
Only a very few. SGTools is limited to invite-only giveaways (well, you can put it on any other, it just won't really work), and only a marginally small amount of people read anything on the forums. The only way to make them correct their own errors would be to implement some kind of automation that prevents them form entering giveaways or flat-out auto-suspends them if they fail an SGTools-like check.
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Regardless of SGTools, the forum is the main attraction for me on this site, so naturally most of my GAs are for the forum. SGTools is just the obvious complementary solution to use for these GAs.
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I still can't comprehend how you can completely ignore that not every single rulebreaker will turn good guy. You consistently and adamantly deny facts and only focus on your ideal little group that you decided that it will turn good, so you just sweep the others below the carpet and act like that didn't even happen. You're painfully idealistic in this topic, while regarding the support's and "creator's" time you're vastly pessimictic, expecting massive time periods between comparing two dates, or the creator submitting a report in 10 seconds. And then don't even get me on your arguement where you diapprove mine with your arguement of " You don't know, I don't know either"
And yes, I can also cite up additional info that weren't part of the discussion just to try to invalidate OPINIONS. As I never said that you're doing only SGT giveaways. I never said that I never do that. I haven't mentioned that I repeatedly state on my SGT giveaway topics that anyone blacklisted who clered up their infractions can comment and I'll remove them. Since me being a member exactly 1 person did that. In 3 years, out of 300+ blacklisted, and I recall less than a dozen people from the forums. That's about that people will fix their mistakes. and "The "unclean" can get their act together, fix their infractions and join her giveaways.". Overgeneralization don't often end up well.
And to wrap it up - if the system for tracking rulebreakers is so broken as it is, then it will need to be changed, not rulebreakers ignored and left around. SGTools is a great thing to filter them out if I don't want to bother with messing around rulebreakers, but as I said - it just ignores the problems of the site. It's the pink glasses to keep your little garden in order, while ignoring the fact that there are problems.
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Adam,
I agree that there is no perfect solution here. But for me, individually checking 110 GA's on a train is hugely onerous!
Believe me, I have submitted plenty of tickets on created GA's that were won by previous rule-breakers - 9 out of 10 had already served their time. But the point is, those people didn't "fix" the issue. Why should I have to do all the work to identify them and notify support, when the rule-breaker decided to take the suspension but not fix the problem that caused them to get suspended in the first place?
- my feeling is that I should be able to create GA's on this site without having to do hours and hours of work - :-)
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I don't think your experiences are exemplary in that regard. Maybe it was just bad luck or maybe it had something to do with the fact that you refused to deliver gifts to rulebreakers at that point but I think less then ~ 10% of my reroll requests were denied and that's a percentage I can easily live with.
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Do you report all winners with infractions, or just ones with recent infractions?
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I go by my gut. For example when a user has a couple of 2 or 3 year old infractions but has won and activated 20+ games without exception since then, I interpret that as they have learned their lesson or at least understood they will get cought sooner of later if they keep doing it, and usually won't request a reroll.
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Ok, so now I see why only 10% get denied. You can get it to 0% if you just focus on infractions done in the last month.
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Sure I could but that's not my goal. My goal is not having to give games to people I don't feel comfortable giving them to and so far that's working out great for me :)
As an example: A 9 month old infraction might just mean that that person hasn't won anything worth trying to sell for a while so for me it's still worth requesting a reroll even if it might get denied. Most of my low level GAs are for bad, heavily bundled games anyway and if I have to give a 5 cent OtakuMaker game to a rulebreaker so be it. Afterwards I just blacklist them and move on.
But with all the talk of support being overwhelmed and even simple stuff like rerolls taking more and more time I've temporarily changed my MO to giving away only nice stuff, which exclusively goes to Lvl 5 and above and with that portion of SG users I didn't have to request any rerolls recently at all.
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Locking them outside encourages them clean their act
Got anything to back up that claim? Because I have plenty to back up mine that reporting them gets them suspended and subsequently perma-banned.
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your link botched...
and i think i only have one perma credited to me.. i should make more public GA :D
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Sadly, that's just one small part of my list. I believe there are 30+ on there.
(image works for me, but maybe prntscr.com is glitching. ;_; )
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oh, i can open the image in a new tab. can't see it here.
maybe ublock origin is the cause. oh well...
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You mean you want names of users who fixed their rap sheet? Get me an approval from Support to do it (without it being considered calling out) and I'll name names.
If you report them and they stop breaking the rules they will never be permabanned. They only thing that will happen (by this method) is that every giveaway they win will result in GA creators submitting a reroll ticket, and then Support will process and deny it. Every damn win from now till eternity.
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If you report them and they stop breaking the rules they will never be permabanned.
If I report them and they stop breaking rules, I'm also accomplishing what you claim to accomplish with SGTools giveaways.
If I report them and they don't stop breaking rules, they end up perma-banned.
Two birds with one stone. ;)
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Read more carefully. Hint: Support and GA creators time.
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Hint: Support and GA creators time.
Getting them off SG by reporting them and getting them suspended/perma'd accomplishes that as well.
Am I up to three birds with one stone now? ;)
Edit: to be clear, I have nothing against people using SGTools giveaways (despite what a particular psycho tells people), but I do have my reasons for not using it.
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But you won't accomplish this if they don't continue to break the rules. The only thing that will happen is that Support and GA creators time will be wasted ad infinitum.
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Well, seems we're at an impasse and will just have to agree to disagree.
You continue to make SGTools giveaways to avoid rule-breakers, hoping they will change their ways, and I'll continue to make public giveaways and report them when they break the rules.
I do feel it worthwhile to point out -- I believe it was Khalaq who stated that something along the lines of 90% of rule-breakers don't commit a repeat offense once suspended. Take that with a grain of salt, since I didn't save the link, though. However, if it is true, then reporting them accomplishes quite a bit.
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113 out of my 800 GAs ended with requests for new winners, and the vast majority are for past infractions by the winner. So saying that I only so SGTools GAs is quite inaccurate. Still, I keep mostly badly-reviewed games for public GAs. The better stuff I save for the forum, whitelist and groups.
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So saying that I only so SGTools GAs is quite inaccurate.
I never said that. I said "You continue to make SGTools giveaways", as in "you do things your way, and I'll do them mine."
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I do feel it worthwhile to point out -- I believe it was Khalaq who stated that something along the lines of 90% of rule-breakers don't commit a repeat offense once suspended.
I didn't save the link neither but I can confirm someone from support said that.
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I did a limited study here, found about an 18% repeat infraction rate. The real number is probably a little higher due to flaws in my test methodology. And as the procedure post states, this will also undersample the number of permanently suspended people, so take the 18% with a grain of salt.
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If giveaway creators use good judgement based on how recent the infractions are and the number of them (I also check who they have won from recently to see if it's likely that they were reported) the number of tickets can be reduced. For example, asking for a reroll for 1 problem from more than a year ago would be somewhat silly (edit: unless there are other factors that lead you to believe they have not yet been suspended for it such as a regift that has not been deleted by support.).
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A week ago I had a reroll approved for 1 unactivated win from Sept 2014, so I don't personally see it as a waste of time. Rules are rules, and they apply to everyone. That user also has a ratio of 4:98, so they had plenty of games to play while they were suspended.
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I recently spotted someone with some multiwins regifted 2 years ago and they are currently on holiday. I never said it was a waste of time. It's always a judgement call. You mentioned the problem of support having to deal with reroll tickets for people who have already served time, so what lead you to believe that old win had not been noticed before?
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I make no such assumptions. Reporting every infraction also helps pass the message that the current situation needs to be improved. Not reporting is not an acceptable option for me. If every GA creator will do the same I'm sure cg will implement a solution. It's not like there's any lack of ideas on how to improve things, just head over to the Suggestions forum and search on the subject.
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My stats for last 2 weeks. 21 suspensions. 3 permanent.
These are minimums based on those who are still serving time (some for a month. Staff are too lenient, you can get away with at least 6 non activations and still come back) so the number will be higher.
None of these people won any of my giveaways. I just notice a lot of suss people. I only send a report if I'm 100% or close to certain that they haven't served time yet. The reports are always for regift/nonactivation/multiwin. Also sgtools can't spot some problems with group/region giveaways, but I often can manually. Ronix has no problem with my reports.
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How does it keep honest people out if its just basic activation and multiwin rule , the people who dont pass arent very honest at all
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I'm an honest person and I can't get into any SGtools giveaways because I have a private profile. Also SGtools giveaways are private, which means that only people who come across them (for example on the forum) can enter them, which means that quite a few honest people who aren't on the forum or missed the post won't enter them.
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I think you can make your profile public, then try to join and make it private again afterwards. Sure, that's a lot of work for a mere chance to win some random game but so is having to file a reroll = check winner request everytime somebody with a private profile wins one of your GAs.
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I don't think that's tenable. I personally don't enter giveaways, but I don't think it would be reasonable to do this if I did want to enter. Besides, SGtools is far as I know stricter than SG rules, so it turns away people even if what they did wouldn't be enough to cause a reroll.
I'd rather have SG check the rules itself. I understand the convenience of SGtools for those who make a lot of giveaways, but it's still just that, a matter of convenience which hurts some people unnecessarily.
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you can filter sgtools to whatever you want. you can make it only lvl+1
which is pointless cause. well, SG has that feature.
but, some people put VAC ban on their ga as rule. it is not even SG related.
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Why does it need to be SG related? It's an additional filter, just like puzzles are. If people don't want to give games to cheaters or scammers, it their prerogative.
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I just explained to you why it's completely valid for people to check for VAC bans as part of their rules, even if the targeted giveaways are on SG. What you wrote hinted that you think there's an issue there. If not, then good. We're in agreement.
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this discussion was focused on making SG a better place by either opting to use sgtools or not (POV ofcourse). we are in disagreement there, but you know my opinion on sgtools ga links ;)
i gave an example of something that is completely not related to SG. the STEAM VAC ban. yes, users are allowed to exclude whomever they want in the form of puzzles/jigidi (which excludes my kind of people, LAZY :) ).
but it's not to make steam better or anything.
i can ask every user to supply their police record to make sure there are no traffic related offense cause i felt like it. it feels the same way to me.
if you see someone drive too fast, and lets say you report him to the police (got a video, etc.) do you know before if it was his first offense or not? only in very sensitive places they ask for police record. i doubt SG is very sensitive.
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If it would be reasonable behaviour is an entirely different question but I vaguely remember knsys saying that it's technically allowed.
Also as Tiny already pointed out SGTools filters are only as restrictive as the GA creator wants them to be. Beside the fact that the creator doesn't get to decide if he wants to exclude users that have been banned from entering SGTools GAs for trying to cheat the system, which I'm still strongly against. I don't think it's a bad feature, I would probably even use it if I used SGTools but it's my GA so the choice whom I want to exclude from it should be up to me.
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You already need to make your profile unprivate once a week to sync with SG
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True, and it's a hassle, but very minor compared to making it public each time you want to enter an SGtools giveaway.
Luckily SG2 doesn't require this sync for using the site, only for entering giveaways. I hated the SG1 requirement to sync just to use the forum. At least now I can use the forum and post giveaways without ever having to change my profile.
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It makes my life miserable when peeps have private profiles - I then have to contact support to check your profile and wait for them to get back to me. Personally, support has always been quick to get back to me, but it's just an added step and takes time :-(
You can make your profile public long enough to enter and then turn it private again :-p
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Yes and I have found user with multiple accounts that got permabanned
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Ive recently started checking and ive had a somewhat alarming amount of winners that have multiple games won that they didnt activate. I hate to be a stickler but its a bit annoying when you see this on a lvl0 account that has 10+ games won. I just had to request a new winner for 2 games that were won on an account that was less than 30 days ago.
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