For the never married straight guys, would you ever want to get married at some point?
I'm married and have no problem with it, but it took me many years to find the right partner. Proposed to her after 3 months, got married 5 months later, been married for 10 years.
I think that if you feel that you found the right partner, then getting married is a nice way to make a commitment. It's much more of a show of trust than doing things other ways. It's not necessary, it's just how you feel about it. That said, I see that you're in the US, and my impression is that your country is crazy where it comes to relationships (of all sorts), so it's entirely possible that the risk you're talking about is valid.
On the other hand, I don't think that marriage is the issue. I think that the issue is long term relationships in general. That's what I don't like about the idea of MGTOW. If you're in a good relationship, it does add to your life. I'd also say that having kids adds to your life, but I think that's after overcoming the first hurdle.
I do understand that it's easier and safer to stay out of relationships. I agree with the notion that men are generally put down in society, and get little sympathy, and I think that hurts mainly nice, shy guys, who are naturally apprehensive, but these days also have to worry about saying the wrong things. Men are still expected to actively pursue women (make the first move, court, propose, etc.), but are also expected to behave in very specific ways that are incongruent with that, which is stressful for many. In the end I feel that the guys who care less are the winners from this.
(That's probably why, as I read the other day, online dating is helping get more stable marriages, probably because it allows people to meet in a more controlled environment with less stress, where the shy guys have a little more chance.)
I feel that the fear shouldn't govern your decisions. There are many nice women, and although finding a good partner isn't easy, as I said, I think that if you do it does make your life better. I think that people are more obsessed with self fulfillment these days than in the past, and I personally believe that caring about others is an important part of life (it's also known to have benefits to both mental and physical health). I think that the idea of getting away from relationships and society is bad, for both the individual and society in general.
Comment has been collapsed.
For those who use those stupid reasons in articles you mentioned - In those cases you obviously dont trust the other person.. So logically you shouldnt get merried..
While I dont care for marriege as such, one day I will probably merry someone. Because even IF I would be against marriege my SO probably wouldnt. And that would ruin it between us.. Some stupid principle.. So the way I see it is - get merried if you want to, dont get merried if you dont want to. Dont read idiotic articles from biased point of view written by first-world jack-offs whos biggest trouble in the world is wether the cleaning lady will come and mop up their shit.
These kinds of movements are the cancer of this world - they are trying to push their views on others. And wether you agree or you dont on this matter, people get influenced by it...Make up your own mind.
And btw. All these divorces happen because people get merried too fast. You cant get to know a person in year and decide you will live with him/her for 50 more. Just live together. If you laste some 5 years, get merried.. If you want to.. At that stage of relationship I would assume saying "I love you" isnt just something you say to get BJ or cunilingus.
And Im saying all this living in a divorced houshold. So its not like I havent seen what divorce does to a family..
And that "sexodus" - what the hell does that even mean ? .. Only thing that comes to my mind is what G. Carlin said. All these groups and movements usually have some great points and they stand for noble causes (In this case - man not getting their lives ruined with divorce) but they take things too seriously (in this case - saying man shouldnt marry at all)..
Btw - what about prenup ? valid tool to not get ruined if divorce happens.. Of course your SO would take it as an insult. But still.. It exists for a reason.
Comment has been collapsed.
I dont believe in any religion and "this" is part of most of them... 100 years ago it still was for trade and contracts, i dont support such a system just because people think it's ok today... it's basing on one of the most discriminating rituals...
Marriage in most countries today is still forced through men...
Comment has been collapsed.
When I was religious, I wanted to get married, so I did. Now my wife and I are not religious (having left our religion) and it wouldn't matter much at this point. That said, several years later, we are a very happy couple and our relationship is only improving, so marriage is cool.
Fun fact - my wife and I had a TINY and CHEAP wedding. We paid for a $30 venue that doubled as a reception area, our marriage license, and a cheap JoP. The reception was chips and dip, and a family member picked up the $20 bill on that one. Honestly, best choice for us.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, and no prenuptial agreement - at first, we saw it as a trust thing, but even looking back, we don't have anything anyway, so if she wanted the shirt off my back, she could have it. She has done enough for my disabled ass for a lifetime, anyway.
Comment has been collapsed.
I do not want to ever get married either. I want a relationship based on mutual love, respect and happiness and not only on legal or religious obligation or on parenthood responsibility.
I'm over 30 now and have a couple of relationships behind me. And now I can tell that no one ever loved me so much to not to cheat on me or to put up with me for more than a few years. So I'm "happy" that I never got married. Marriage with any of my ex partners would now be a nightmare. Not even mentioning having children with them.
Comment has been collapsed.
I feel you on that one. I dodged some pretty big bullets by not marrying or impregnating any of my exs too. In the moment when they are blinded by love every guys feels "she's the one, our kids are going to great, our life is going to all work out" but I know from experience that cheating among women is rampant nowadays (sorry but it's the truth) especially if your girl is beautiful. At least in the US, cheating is kinda just shrugged at, it's never seen as the woman's fault (he made me cheat, he didn't give me what I want, it's not my fault.) It's also very disturbing how easy it is to get with girls who have bfs when you're single (even the girls who you could never imagine cheating or having a lot of sexual partners, I bet you she's lying to save face). Having been "the other guy" more times than I'd like when I was single, I can tell you, they are lying to you. It's a complete mess.
Comment has been collapsed.
Marriage in it's classical definition is bullsh**. You don't need no ceremony or a frickin piece of paper that tells anyone you took your relationship to the next/last level.
For me it's a feeling you get or have and a stupid document or a ceremony won't change a damn thing about that.
Comment has been collapsed.
I tried living with other people, and it's not for me. Being able to come home and relax without having to worry about another living creature is a very liberating feeling, and it's the only thing I miss about my time in college (seriously, don't get me started on college).
Comment has been collapsed.
As an agnostic person, for me marriage is just a signature which makes things easier in the regard of the law. I don't feel the need to "officialise" my relationship and neither does my boyfriend. We know we'll be together for a long time and probably for our whole lives but we plan to just get married when we're old as a commodity.
As for the event itself we don't really like the idea to organise a party to celebrate ourselves...
Comment has been collapsed.
For the never married straight guys ...
Even though it seems like I'm not allowed to vote on that poll, I still definitely would want to get married one day when I found the right guy. As many stated before, it's a big commitment towards eachother, besides many legal advantages (e.g. taxes).
But it's not fundemental to me, if my future boyfriend would say that he doesn't want to, then I'd be totally fine with that.
I just think if you found the right person, you also should be able to trust that specific person enough to marry them, if you don't trust them enough, maybe it's either not the right person or just too early.
But I also understand the points of those saying they'll never do so.
But that's just my current viewpoint on marrying, who knows, maybe it'll change, and in a few years I'll maybe be totally against it..
Comment has been collapsed.
Honestly - I don't know, good question.
But actually I don't think so, not because gay guys are better at committing or something, but I guess that this specific problem is mostly caused by things that don't exist in homosexual relationships anyway, for example those "feminist issues" mentioned in the two videos.
But it could be hard getting real statistics or numbers on that since in most of the world's countries marriage sadly is heterosexual-only anyway, or only open to homosexual couples for a very short period of time by now.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm usually of the notion that marriage is an outdated concept and totally unnecesssary in today's society. I know very happy married couples, but I still don't see the benefits.
Although the romantic within me always says "if I had the chance I would marry that woman instantly", when I fall in love with someone who is unattainable to me xD
Comment has been collapsed.
I really want to do that in the future, as you can't have sex, if you are not married in Islam
Comment has been collapsed.
It's pointless. People should remain together because it's beneficial for both partners, not because they're afraid of what they'd lose in a divorce. All marriage does is artificially extend relationships that have reached their end, with the effect of making the lives of everyone involved miserable (including the children, if any).
If in a country with significant benefits for married couples, it can be done for practical reasons, but with a contract laying out terms for ending the marriage painlessly when it's outlived its usefulness.
Comment has been collapsed.
"All marriage does is artificially extend relationships that have reached their end"
It also artificially ends relationships that were otherwise happy. When two people content with each other as a couple decide to get married, it's incredibly common for one or both of them to develop expectations now that they have tied the knot. They start seeing each other differently and it changes how they behave.
Being married doesn't suddenly make your lazy boyfriend a great guy or your sexually repressed girlfriend more active in the bedroom. If you are not satisfied with how the two of you work together before marriage, you're putting pressure on the relationship after marriage with unrealistic expectations about how a husband or wife should act.
I will not allow myself to go through that.
Comment has been collapsed.
Just for the record, I'm a female and I think that marriage is overrated. In fact, I'd say many people don't intend to get married nowadays, both men and women ;)
Comment has been collapsed.
"Imho, I do not want to ever get married. As a man, I think it's too risky, in the future I don't want to lose half my income, my house, my children, going to jail if you can't pay child support. All of that hanging over your head at any day, and for what benefit?"
That's precisely how I feel about it. Aside from that, I see marriage the exact opposite way most people do. While many see it as a way to show their love, I think if you REALLY love someone, you don't need to get married. You will stay with them without a legal contract.
I'm also jarred by the effects of marriage, divorce and child custody, as my brother has to deal with it on a constant basis. He can't live on his own, even with military disability, because his ex gets too much of his money and will never work with him so that he can have a stable life. She treats the kids like they are something to hold over him whenever she wants something from him and it's sickening that the courts not only let her do it, but increase the amount of money she gets and wastes on herself, instead of spending it on the kids, like she's supposed to.
This "sexodus" is a bit ridiculous to me, though. I get it and kind of empathize, but if men really feel they're treated unfairly, then we need to stand up, not shut down. Leaving society fixes nothing. In fact, it just furthers the unfair divide where men are misrepresented.
Comment has been collapsed.
While many see it as a way to show their love, I think if you REALLY love someone, you don't need to get married. You will stay with them without a legal contract.
Exactly! Some people go around claiming you aren't committed to a relationship if you don't get married. To me that sounds like religious people saying you can't have morality if you don't believe there's a god watching you. The obvious reply to that is "So if you found out for sure there were no gods, you'd go and steal, rape and kill as much as you could?". To convert that to marriage, I'd ask "So if your partner became seriously ill and you had to take care of them, and somehow your marriage was annulled, you'd just abandon them without a second thought?".
Comment has been collapsed.
The obvious reply to that is "So if you found out for sure there were no gods, you'd go and steal, rape and kill as much as you could?".
Which if they aren't stunned enough to stop speaking and actually answer "yes, maybe" then congratulations, you've found an incredibly shitty person.
And yeah, it seems to me that a lot of people get married thinking it will bring them closer to someone they weren't sure about. They get married and then their marriage hits its first rock and they think "wow, I should never have done this".
Well YEAH you never should have done it, you didn't love the person nearly enough in the first place. Marriage isn't a tool, it's a sign of commitment. It won't bring you closer, it won't do anything. Sticking with the person you love even when it's hard is what makes you stronger, not the band around your finger that one of you paid $4000 on.
Someone might say I have commitment issues because I feel the way I do, but I know it's just that I don't see the value in ceremony. If anything, it just puts pressure on people and makes their relationship more fragile than before. If you love someone, show it however you want, but don't do it just because society has taught you that's what people in love do.
Comment has been collapsed.
divorce rates at an all time high: which has to do with today's society. A lot has changed, and where my parents would try and overcome a bad situation, couples now don't want to try and just give up. Today you can get everything you want without much problems, so people aren't used to dealing with a bad situation. Coupled with people being to self-centered (like OP, based on his remarks!).
in the future I don't want to lose half my income, my house: You can create a prenuptial agreement if you want. And I think from next year in Europe that will be standard.
If you think about it - that's good. If you fear it happening - stay single - you're not in the right state of mind for any relationship
lose my children: but that also goes for her. And if the children are older, they've got a choice themselves anyway. The most important thing here is that the divorce doesn't get ugly and you and your ex are able to still see each other.
And I'm the one at risk because I make 3x the money she does: What if you found a girl that earned 3x as much as you do? Would that make it easier?
By the way: if the answer is yes: stay single - you're not in the right state of mind for any relationship at all!!!
In itself: if the sexodus is your thing, don't get in a relationship. I'm a loner. I played a lot of games alone when I was younger. But I still wanted people around me, so I started taking salsa classes. Going out to salsa parties. Just to meet other people. And it's also where I met my wife.
Comment has been collapsed.
If being "self centered and not in the right state of mind for a relationship" means not wanting to let myself be taken advantage of by biased laws that are against men, and not submitting to blue pill behavior, then I will wear that badge proudly. I'm all about that man. You only get one life, I'm not living out of a car paying child support or going to prison anytime soon. But what I will do is continue to love the women in my life and treat them right, they just have to understand the reasons for me saying no to marriage, if they can't accept that, they can leave, bottom line. And prenups get thrown out all the time
Comment has been collapsed.
Still you didn't answer my question: What if you found a girl that earned 3x as much as you do? Would that make it easier? What if she already has a house?
The fact that you immediately talk about biased laws, blue pill behaviour and money states your view pretty well. The "prenups get thrown out all the time" must be pretty US specific (though wikipedia states they're valid in all 50 states when drawn up according to local laws). The rest of the world sees them as a binding contract.
If you and a woman ever get a child without being married you'd have to establish paternity. Though even if you haven't done so, you'd still have to pay child support if you split up. Even though you don't have rights to actually visit the child. So the "I'm not living out of a car paying child support or going to prison" can only be avoided by not getting children.
That said:
Do you drive a car? Or are you afraid that you get an accident?
Have you ever done bungee jumping? Or are you afraid the band snaps?
Have you bought a house? Or are you afraid the housing market crashes and you lose your job so you're left with a huge debt?
These are all things where you know something really bad could happen. Still a lot of people take the chance.
Everything you've written oozes that the fact that it could go wrong is scaring you.
Comment has been collapsed.
LOL
That MGTOW thing is mysoginy with cool words. Don't get into that shithole, it's virical, sick, infectious... They are the new "incels", and let's be honest here... For a bunch of people claiming they don't need a woman in their life, they spend too much time talking about them. Specially with hate.
Comment has been collapsed.
Way back when I first heard about MGTOW (can't even estimate how far back that was, about two years ago?), I was pretty intrigued. At its base, it seemed to be an attempt at moving away from the misogyny that had poisoned other mens movements, with a focus on deconstructing the various possessive lens that guys can look at themselves through (valuing themselves based on their relationships, possessions, successes, etc). A kind of thing about rehumanising yourself without having to validate through 'manliness' or qualifiers, but with a side-order of reproductive, relationship and independence subjects. I made a mental note of it, hoped it would go well and wouldn't get devoured from the inside out by the typical bad eggs, and let it slip out of view.
...then about a month or so ago I noticed the term "MGTOW" sneak back into my periphery through random youtube recommendations, and the videos (and the comment gutters) were solely focused on blaming women for the mistreatment of men, complete with the usual shoddy regurgitated strawman talkbites and lots of circular head-nodding. Sad, but entirely predictable. Anger and passion can be a great fuel for positive change, but it is dangerously easy to use as fertilizer for confirmation bias and prejudicial thinking. I haven't looked any further into the whole MGTOW thing even now, but I do wonder if that self-identifying label has been wholly dissolved by anti-women mentality, or whether there are 'genuine' MGTOW folks who are tired of trying to shoo away the angry woman-blamers from eating their interest group.
I still worry about the day that the term 'egalitarian' gets turned into some kind of buzzword and the two armies of the gender wars poison even that. :P
Comment has been collapsed.
This can answer a lot of awkward questions!
http://isyourgirlfriendahorse.com/
Comment has been collapsed.
16 Comments - Last post 47 minutes ago by Darkslayer16
261 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Reidor
3,555 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by andreeeeeww
15 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by Butterflysense
54 Comments - Last post 5 hours ago by darkstar1999
11 Comments - Last post 6 hours ago by DeltaBladeX
12 Comments - Last post 13 hours ago by trex33361
20 Comments - Last post 13 minutes ago by PunishedStig
56 Comments - Last post 15 minutes ago by Vohnst
18,080 Comments - Last post 20 minutes ago by NewbieSA
68 Comments - Last post 25 minutes ago by LittleBibo1
0 Comments - Created 43 minutes ago by Gusthewizard
112 Comments - Last post 44 minutes ago by FateOfOne
9,138 Comments - Last post 45 minutes ago by Gusthewizard
I've been reading a lot about the The Sexodus recently, and how a lot of men nowadays in Western society are opting out of society and opting out of marriage. It's an interesting topic to me, and I've been watching a lot of videos about it, such as these.
MGTOW Its The Safest Choice
Men are opting out of marriage
And articles like these
Bachelor Nation: 70% of Men Aged 20-34 Are Not Married
5 Reasons No Man Should Marry And 1 Reason He Might
The Sexodus, the herbivore man in the East, MGTOW, feminism, guys falling way behind women academically, men not going to college as much, divorce rates at an all time high, marriage rates decreasing, women saying there are no good men anymore, promiscuity and the hook up culture, all of these have been occupying my mind recently.
Imho, I do not want to ever get married. As a man, I think it's too risky, in the future I don't want to lose half my income, my house, my children, going to jail if you can't pay child support. All of that hanging over your head at any day, and for what benefit?
Comment has been collapsed.