+1. I actually took the time to thoughtfully answer them. I hope they do take into consideration the results.
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"Games I don't own" is way too broad nowadays. There are literally thousands of games I don't own and just don't want. Wishlist, on the other hand... :)
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Tried to convey my dislike for mystery bundles as much as possible. Not that it will make any difference.
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grazie, Lilly!
noice, Fanatical!
edit:
from "Our customers and partners" to "not to love?!" is just marketer yadda. thou, i'm 100% with them when they say "There is NO gambling involved".
edit 2:
4. What would make Mystery Bundles better?
A loyalty scheme to recycle keys I don’t want
8. Would you be more or less likely to want a Mystery Bundle if we had a loyalty scheme for trading in unwanted keys?
edit 3: a well written survey!
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Lemme translate that from whatever language they speak to English:
Why do we run Mystery Bundles?
Our customers love the chance to get expensive AAA games for pennies (despite what they say), it's a fun and unique way for us to make a quick buck while selling leftovers (killing two birds with a stone), and it's actually very profitable in the end… what’s not to love?!
This is 100% gambling. Based on a $6.99 purchase, on average you will get bundled games valued $3. That you already own. If you're lucky.
Why don’t we reveal the games?
To lure in customers, we reveal the most sought-after AAA games, but we cannot say that there's only 5 such keys for every 10k others.
In other words: this is not the kind of BS we miss, Fanatical.
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Nice translation. Shame that some people actually need to have it translated to them, otherwise they fall for that shit hook, line and sinker >_<
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There is NO gambling involved
Best joke of the day. Let's just open a dictionary:
gamble, verb:
1) to risk money or possessions on the outcome of something, usually sports or a game
2) to make a risky guess or assumption that something will happen, with the likelihood of a negative consequence if it does not
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I like Wikipedia's definition:
Gambling is the wagering of money or something of value on an event with an uncertain outcome, with the primary intent of winning money or material goods. Gambling thus requires three elements to be present: consideration, risk, and a prize.
Hmm, wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome (mysterious, you might say), with the intent to get something worthwhile... Hmm, that reminds me of something, I just can't put my finger on what that something is...
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How is it not illegal for them to literally lie for financial benefit is my question right now. There will be people who will be reassured that they don't have a gambling problem when they buy 20 keys per mystery sale with the hope of getting something awesome.
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How is it not illegal for them to literally lie for financial benefit is my question right now.
Yeah, I really don't get why there still hasn't been some crack-down on this kind of business practices, including lootboxes (about which psychology researchers pretty much agree they trigger brain reactions similar to those you get in regulated gambling). Those sites and games are pretty much running online casinos in disguise, and no government seems to be truly motivated to take action, despite what they sometimes say.
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Very true. It's 100% gambling. Very valid points as well.
Honestly; as I mentioned in a different comment I found it insulting to the customers intelligence. Though your points that some people will actually not realize that it's blatant lies & believe it is valid as well. I hadn't considered that.
With the current state of affairs & many people unable to (or perhaps unwilling to?) see reality vs blatant lies, you may be spot on.
The whole Fanatical article irritated me to the point where I decided to just buy a mystery bundle on GMG after expressing my distaste for the article via there survey. Just to spend my $ elsewhere, get some dupes & make a few giveaways. Get that bad taste of of my mouth per say.
I figure I might as well reverse the irritation & brighten some people's days at the same time.
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"There is no gambling involved..."
Yeah, just like EA's lootboxes... its surprise mechanics that are both ethical and fun. 🤔
/s
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i buy games from fanatical and bundles too but only when i know what they give.
i dont buy mistery bundle because i dont like to buy random things , i buy games i like and want to play.
if fanatical want sell that,and if people want to buy,up to them,i understand people have different taste,ideas etc
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"Why don’t we reveal the games?"
LOL ,come on Fanatical , silly pointless question and statement , we all know ,including yourselves ,why you've been selling steam keys this way .
You couldn't shift a large portion of those keys if you told us up front .
Stop insulting our intelligence.
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That was my favorite section of their recent blog post:
Why don’t we reveal what games are in the Mystery Bundles?
We do this to give you the best deals we can!
There’s no attempt to pull the wool over your eyes; but...[muh confidentiality]
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LOL; indeed! I honestly used that exact wording in my responses to the survey!
I mentioned I found the article about the myths & such to be a direct insult to the intelligence of the customers reading the article. Interesting I wasn't the only one who felt that way. Quite amusing.
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Some of the survey options are interesting possible insights into where Fanatical's head is at...
- Would you be more or less likely to want a Mystery Bundle if you knew the games you were getting were based on your Steam wish list?
If "based on your Steam wish list" means giving me games in the same genre, I don't know that I would be more likely to get a mystery bundle.
If it instead means that if your wish list contains one of the mystery drops then you will get that mystery drop (in your dreams), then I might be slightly more likely to buy.
- Would you be more or less likely to want a Mystery Bundle if we had a loyalty scheme for trading in unwanted keys?
Why yes, mystery bundles are a scheme ;)
If for every 10 mystery keys I buy I had the option to swap out at least 2, then I might be slightly more likely to consider buying.
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To be honest, if I wouldn't own any of the games (= skipped all bundles from the past years) then their deal is not that bad, and they are kind of right about exploring good titles. But then they could just use a build your own bundle way of selling them, or having a sale built around them... so this just proves that it is for the "gambling" part. Maybe every game would cost more at full price, but let's face it - getting COD 2 or Prey, or Kotor 1 or Mafia 3 (sorry, I don't remember a proper RPG to throw in) aren't exactly in the same league.
While the games do worth their asking price most of the time ( though in some cases it's like 40% off discount only) there are such differences between them that there is obviously a "win" situation that is better than the others.
Maybe I'm biased because I can't take part in the random fun ( honestly I love getting random good stuffs) because owning too many games, but I don't feel good about promoting random/lootbox-type of purchases. Especially not with such a fanfare as fanatical does it.
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(sorry, I don't remember a proper RPG to throw in)
either Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition or Grim Dawn are proper RPGs, and very good ones, too. I highly recommend them, especially DAO.
But, yes. I refuse to buy these unless I was guaranteed a "winner", which they probably cannot do. Since my average threshold for buying a game is ~75% off, these mystery bundles are a big stretch.
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(Do those games appear in the mystery bundles? Wanted an example from those. ( I recently finished Grim Dawn - lot more character to it than expected. A real RPG has non-violent options for most quests in my book, but for an ARPG they made exceptional immersion and worldbuilding, far best I've played. DAO is on my to play list, I recently read The Calling book, got really hyped to return to the game and actually finish it ^^ )
Make sure and fill in the questionare.
- Would you be more or less likely to want a Mystery Bundle if you knew the games you were getting were based on your Steam wish list?
YES. Not guaranteed I would buy, but hell it would have a considerably better chance, coupled with a proper price :3
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I honestly have no clue if they are in the mystery bundles or not, I was merely suggesting them as good examples for your example, which I see now had been all Mystery Bundle titles, sorry.
Also yes, especially if I could get the Fanatical Assistant to sync my steam and Fanatical wishlists.
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KOTOR is indeed a proper RPG, albeit an old one.
If you were going for a more recent AAA title that people would be excited to get, then it would be something like Dragon Quest XI, Octopath Traveler, Valkyria Chronicles 4, Monster Hunter World, Final Fantasy XV, Nier: Automata, Pillars of Eternity II, or Divinity: Original Sin 2.
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KOTOR is just sticking out like a sore thumb because I repeatedly see it on sale for 2-3$ and then put it in 5$/key mystery bundles and keep calling it great value. And let's be completely objective - it's not a game a random so-so casual player would like to see. Maybe a few will actually try it and be happy about it, but an old, dated looking, hope-to-run-it RPG (that many who already knows how good it is, already owns) is not really what I would call great value.
I failed to get a similar comparison as COD 2 - Prey (both FPS) about how an old-good, and new-good aren't balanced, so even if every key is a "win", there are bigger wins --> calling it gambling is a legit approach.
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Oh, I see what you were going for.
So you were going for stuff like a bundle offering Bioshock 1 or Prey, Painkiller Black or Doom, KOTOR 1 or Pillars of Eternity 2, Splinter Cell or Hitman 2, Assassin's Creed or Assassin's Creed Odyssey. They're all good, but only one is really exciting today, and of course there's 100x more of the former as there are of the latter.
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I hate mystery bundles more than surveys so I took it.
So ignoring what I consider to be the exploitative and dishonest nature of it (and which undermines my confidence and trust in the vendor of said bundle/promo) -- for the sake of transparency the very least they should be doing is publishing the full list of titles that drop and the odds for each (as we have seen Green Man Gaming of all vendors do).
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There is NO gambling involved.
Looks like if you denial strong enough, you'll start to twist everything that is real in your own mind.
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I'll just reveal my thoughs about this survey because I'm pretty sure only positive answers about their gambling scheme will go foward on these surveys. They already stated their bias on the "There is NO gambling involved.".
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There is NO gambling involved.
Of course it's not gambling... You're merely wagering money on an event with an uncertain outcome, intending to win goods in the form of great games. You're just playing a game of chance, taking a risk that the money you put in will be rewarded with great games.
No gambling involved whatsoever...
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Yeah, but it's not love but the hope for getting a good game. I do not buy any of them, because there are a few titles in every bundle that intrerests me, but I'm sure i would get a 16 times bundled indie pixel grahic 'game' instead of an AAA title.
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or just because they're dumb?
The human brain is just not evolved to understand odds and statistics. Even for people who realize how these kinds of things work, it's something that goes against our intuition and has to be learned and accepted.
That is, it's not so much stupidity as just not putting enough time and effort into learning and accepting something unintuitive.
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There is NO gambling involved.
It's not gambling because there is no risk of loss.
You pay for 10 games, you get 10 games.
However, Results May Vary in the games you get.
This is like buying blind box collectible toys or CCG boosters.
Most times your pack is going to be garbage.
But every once in a while someone gets the foil Charizard. :P
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That's a good point.
So I'm curious, for anyone who opposes mystery bundles but likes blind CCGs & toys (I don't presume there are many): How are mystery bundles different?
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Is it really a good point though? With this kind of reasoning, one could argue there is no such thing as gambling as you're always getting something in return, be it something of questionable monetary value or an experience.
Edit: The whole point is to get people to pay for something they normally would not. Throwing in stuff that almost no one is willing to pay for as a consolation prize should not be the determinating factor when considering if something is gambling or not.
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Its implied point is "good", which I agree with:
Either both mystery bundles and blind box/CCG physical products are not gambling, or they are both gambling.
It would help the conversation if anyone who believes that only one is gambling mentioned why they are different, as it would be more intellectual transparency.
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Well first, we don't call them Mystery Bundles. We look at it as Surprise Mechanics.
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Why do we run Mystery Bundles?
Our customers and partners love Mystery Bundles, it's a fun and unique way to discover new must-play games at unbeatable value, and it's a game in itself… what’s not to love?!
There is NO gambling involved. Based on a $6.99 purchase, on average you will get $115 games value, much more than you paid!
Ah, silly me, Cally's Caves and 9 other free or 50 cent games for 8€ is the most unbeatable value there ever was!
MSRPs are of course the real value. That's why sales don't exist, used items are sold at full price, prices never lower, bundles don't exist, giveaways are non-existent and everyone buys things at full prices :)
Also, it's obviously gambling! For that you'd need to... pay money... for odds of... getting something more valuable than what you paid... with the risk of negative consequences... hmm...
Why don’t we reveal the games?
To be able to include many of the amazing games on offer in our Mystery Bundles, we agree confidentiality with our developers and publishers that we won’t reveal what titles will be included.
Ah yes, all these developers clinging on to any opportunity to keep their games hidden from consumers eyes so they wouldn't be any more known. It's a curse really. People just want to make games and sell them without consumers knowing what their game even is!
But jokes aside, the "Steam wishlist only mystery bundles" sound like a solid idea as long as it's not too expensive. The fun with wishlists is that you most likely wish for those games anyways.
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From my point of view those bundles are no fun ATM. However, I believe, that just 2 pretty easy to make changes could make them much better.
1) Less gambling. Put games of similar value into those bundles. Like "$4.99-$9.99 Mystery Bundle", and then "$7.99-$12.99 Mystery Bundle", also balancing, how many times those games have been bundled in the past.
2) Allow customers to synchronize their Steam accounts, and perform the draw in such way, that they would not receive keys for games already owned. Could have additional restriction, that people owning more, than 50-70% of games in the draw, would not be eligible to buy the bundle, but those would be really rare cases.
On the other hand, as it stands now, in my opinion it's gambling, and if in my country we begin serious work on anti-lootbox registration, I will argue, that this kind of sales should also be included.
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Good ideas IMHO. I mentioned something similar to point 2 on the survey.
I believe Fanatical Assistant allows a similar functionality. However; I was sure to mention REPEATEDLY that they need to offer a way to sync your wish list without adding bloat to your browser. They either need to incorporate said feature into the site. That or offer an extension that has said functionality but only on Fanatical.com & it's sub domains.
Rather than the BLOAT that is Fanatical Assistant. If I want pricing data I can & do use ITAD, TamperMonkey scripts & other extensions.
Keep that bloat to yourself Fanatical. Hopefully they actually read (& listen to!) the survey results.
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I agree on everything. Right now the "mystery" nature of both the value of the gifts received and the nature of the gifts makes it exploitation.
Both changes would go a long way to make the bundles more interesting for me on a personal level but that wouldn't change much regarding the gambling problem.
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I feel kind of torn in away about how to feel about them due to subbing to the HB which is mostly a mystery but I wouldn't buy one of these mystery bundles. If Fanatical came out with a monthly bundle like HB does with mainly games that have never been bundled with 1 or 2 AAA titles I would probably buy it. The biggest issue is I have like 90% of what they put in the mystery bundles so spending $7 for titles that I already own, have been given away for free or just have mixed/ bad reviews just isn't worth it to me.
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Thanks for your perspective. As someone who doesn't do HB Monthly it's interesting to see your viewpoint.
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One of the biggest things about the HB monthly to me is even if I didn't like several of the games I always feel like I get at least $12 worth of value. HB monthly I feel has really set a standard to what a $12 monthly bundle service should be.
Unfortunately HB really wants to change things though. They want to basically turn into a sort of pick and mix you see in Fanatical. Their marketing team really wants to give people a choice out of 10 or so titles but only let you select 3. They also want to make it so the HB Trove will be a small fee if you want it. I just hoping they keep things the way they currently are. It really all depends on what the higher ups decide though.
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Again thank you much for the perspective.
I'm not that familiar with HB's monthly service & it appears that I may have been misunderstanding it. You've given me some great insight into how it works. I appreciate that.
Sorry to hear that it may be changing though. Hopefully for your sake they stay the way you prefer.
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I just saw you joined SG recently, welcome. I hope you are enjoying the site so far. Good luck to you on winning some giveaways you really want.
Also here is a link that explains what the HB Monthly is in more detail if you are interested in checking it out.
https://support.humblebundle.com/hc/en-us/articles/210560328-Humble-Monthly-FAQ
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Thanks once again, :)
I appreciate the welcome, the link & the good wishes. It's nice to interact with friendly people in a non-toxic environment.
Sadly it seems rare to find of late. So I doubly appreciate it when I do find it.
You have a wonderful day & a nice weekend. Best of luck to you in all your endeavors.
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I'm sorry to hear that and I do hope you have much more pleasurable experiences on here.
Thank you and I hope you have a great rest of your week as well :) Take care.
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My apologies for disturbing you but I believe you may have misunderstood me; or that I may have misunderstood you, :)
Either way; no worries. I just figured I'd clarify rather than have my comment come off as negative; when it was not intended.
I meant in general not on this site in particular. This site has been a friendly & welcoming. I've not run into anything toxic here.
Hopefully that clears up my meaning. That's one thing about communicating via text. It's hard to convey context & such.
Regardless; I know I don't like negativity without good reason so I figured it was best to clarify rather than leave a negative impression.
So thanks again & you take care as well.
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There's no need to apologize after rereading it I realized that you were referring to the net. So this was on me, not you. :)
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Yeah it's a different model. HB doesn't reveal games but we know at least the "big attraction" in the bundle, which allows subscribers to determine if they are interested and if they are getting their money worth right from the start.
Also the bundle doesn't change so nobody is going to be tempted to buy 300 bundles in the hopes of getting "better rewards", and that's what makes Fanatical's model an exploitation of gambling addictions.
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+1
Yeah unfortunately the darker side of things is it does hit on the people with gambling issues. That "mystery element" "lootbox type element" will do that.
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I don't like either one, but the big difference is that with Humble Monthly, everybody is getting the same games.
With Fanatical, with two buyers that paid the same, one might get an AAA title while the other gets the absolute bottom of the barrel.
That alone makes me not complain too much about the existence of Humble Monthly / Square Enix Mystery Box / the couple others we had, but absolutely loathe the grab bag style.
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Well I put in my opinion as i figured it was worth a shot.
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+1
I did the same. I even went quite in depth. Honestly way more than I should have. Hopefully they read it & listen to the results.
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Statements like these based around value are almost always baffling to me. No, the value will most certainly not be $115 on average, in this case, if it were they would be sold for close to this amount and not $6.99. If a decently well-known game vendor isn't able to sell the games at these prices I'm sure as hell not going to get that value out of them.
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Official survey from Fanatical about Mystery Bundles
Have your say on our Mystery Bundles...
No poll this time, but you're invited to share your opinions about lootboxes or mystery bundles in the comments.
@mods: I opened this thead in the Deals forum because it can directly influence future Fanatical deals and because it primarily targets people who follow the deals forum on a daily basis. I apologize if this is not the right place, and I kindly ask you to move it to another forum, where you see fit.
Thanks to Frostt for the heads-up.
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