It was always clear that Humble has reserved the right to do exactly this. I am sorry you got caught by their arbitrary enforcement, but I am not surprised that this happened.
Also, you didn't help yourself out with your own attitude and how you spoke to support.
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Yes, you are right i was so rude. But it gets angry me. Eventually i am a customer. I bought lots of things, subscribed monthly
And most of people doesn't read the TERMS, like me, They must be warn
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It is true that most people don't read the terms but that way you can't know when you are violating them. Don't need to remind you that by using their service you agreed to their terms even if you didn't read them. After all they were there for you to read.
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OFC, but" reading or offering new users a TOS" can be very complex case. We can talk about hours and hours
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they warn you with every purchase.
its all up to you and you made the mistake, also your attitude is just....questionable
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Well i don't think you handled this correctly. Mentioning steamgifts and the attitude towards their support. You should probably just tell them you tried to give the game to a friend via humble gift link and it was already used.
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I don't think they will do anything for me after this, i am on black list now. And i'm not seller...
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I was only trying to say you should have said the thing about humble gift link. I don't think there is something you can do now and even if there is i can't help you because i don't know what can you actually do. :(
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Piss poor advice. Humble will be able to determine whether or not a gift link has been generated. Not mentioning steamfitters is one thing, straight up bullshitting support is another thing entirely.
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The way you put this suggesting to tell he used huble gift link when he didn't was indeed piss poor advice. I guess he should just use humble gift links instead of keys in the future.
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It's like with a doctor: Don't lie to them.
Buuuuut, in this case, you'll be screwed if you tell the truth and lying won't actually change the result. They'd help you and the process for that would stay the same.
So I'd say your advice is worse :P
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I told the truth and you can see whats happen... :)
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I once redeemed a top tier game (i didnt want) by accident, the game is still in my account and my friend was provided with a seperate link which they redeemed and have played 30+ hours on - thanks to humble staff.
on the other hand, I have still to recieve a code for rust from about a year or more ago, though i believe that may be directly the fault of the game devs.
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If developers doesn't delete keys, a key can stand for years. But anyways, Humble must solve key problem with their partners
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Well there is one thing that I do not understand. They keep saying "exchanging of Steam keys or the trading of games", but that is not what happens here. The games here are given away. There is no money or game that one receives for giving away a game. They clearly support gifting, since they let you send an email/link to a friend and give them the game. Therefore the only difference between that and SteamGifts is that the "friend" is just a randomly selected person on the Internet. I do not see how this is a violation of their Terms of Service, unless it states that you must personally know the person you are gifting the game to. I would love some clarification on their part.
PS: I do think you were a bit too harsh in your wording. They provide an exceptional service and they get to make the rules for said service. Perhaps next time this happens, just state that the key did not work for a friend of yours or make it very clear that you were only gifting it to someone.
Have a good day!
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They doesn't understand or they dont want to do that. TY for ur words bro
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Then I guess you should not press the issue any further, to avoid getting your account completely banned. I assume that your "reseller" notice will not affect you unless you buy the same bundle many times.
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technically there is a sort of a gain in giving here, considering this site has a lvling system with limited (more prized) option for higher lvls and off curse a sort of reputation, so you do get something in exchange - but still clinging to that argument is - well childish...
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Well they only said "exchanging of Steam keys", so not every exchange counts. Even if they disallowed any exchange with an item of value (such as money or games or physical/digital items), that would still not include levels. The gaining of levels is not an exchange since it involves a reward from a third party (SteamGifts) with abstract rules. They only affect your "rank" within this fabricated system (hence no value in the real world), and the experience is not given from one user to another (no trading of any kind). Basically, since the person who wins a giveaway does not "pay" in any way (not even in a made-up currency of "experience points"), there is no "exchange". The giveaway creator simply gets rewarded for their number and quality of contributions by essentially being preferred by the community for giveaways. It does not even give you an advantage over a lower level entry in the same giveaway, it just gives you access to more exclusive public giveaways (something that could be achieved even without a level system).
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thats aint completely accurate as gaining upper lvls gives a user better chances in more limited GA for those lvls, meaning as a result as a solid return (in won games/$ value of wins).
us in the community looks at it a sharing and supporting the community (which is honorable thing to do), but they can look it at a financial way, tho that way is still - childish :)
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not sure you are looking at the right wording (I don't say you're wrong either, both thing can be the problem in fact):
for me the keyword is "key"; it's not a good way to activate with your email or a a fake email of yours to get the key and than giveaway or exchange the key. (it's prohibitate by the TOS as much as saling it). .
The only right way to gift is through the gift link. And if anything not working then with the key, it's the one who activated the link that has to contact HB. (once the gift link has been activated you're out of the way)
problem is too many of HB customer activate link to than put the key in a giveaway on steamgifts.
edit:
also if something goes wrong with the key recieved from the link; better if your are steam buddies when you contact HB. (just for the time of the request at least) so it's more believable you did transmit the gift link to a friend of yours, instead of a random person.
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you are talking about the "how" im talking about HB perception of exchanging and giving (as in there TOS) :)
but as thumb role you are right if you agree to a deal then you should honor the terms of it and not violate them, then again on the other hand this site dose alot of good dead's and makes a lot of people happy, and the games are after all the customer property (after perches) so it is childish to cling to those "fine line" print.
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Pls don't forget. A Giveaway creator responsible with giving a key which is %100 real/working. And a key's status doesn't interest winner. So 'creator' must do his job in true way
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I did find it annoying that they keep mentioning selling and trading even though that obviously wasn't the issue here.
However in the link that they provided in the e-mail it does say this: "...We do not provide support for 3rd party contests, promotions, giveaways, or purchases as we do not have enforcement capabilities when it comes to outside individuals following through with obligations."
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I read that support page and it is extremely confusing. I am not seeing a clear "yes" or "no" to the stated question, nor do they address non-promotional giveaways.
The ending seems to be targeted towards users asking for support with keys/links they received in a giveaway. The only "individuals" with a "obligations" in the scenario of giveaways is just the distributor (at least as far as I can tell). They seem to basically be saying that they can not help you with a broken/used key that you won, because they will not police if the creator of the giveaway was acting fairly (ex: did not already use the key before giving it away). That would imply that the sentence was not meant for the giveaway creator. However I might be interpreting it wrong...
However I do agree that if they believe that someone used their keys in a way that violated their Terms of Service, they would not be bound to provide support for said keys. I do not believe that this is a case which violated the ToS, but that is another issue...
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That would imply that the sentence was not meant for the giveaway creator. However I might be interpreting it wrong...
The same can be applied both ways. Once the creator has passed on a key to a winner Humble have no way of knowing what's been done with it.
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I guess so. I would probably say that they should not be obligated to provide support for keys that are given away, just due to all the complications and uncertainty.
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Gifting on their website is not forbidden because it stays in their own system, they can track the gift, and the key cannot get lost or used in the process, so nobody will reach their support for a problem they can't resolve, like our friend did here.
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Indeed, but their wording makes it seem as if they would not accept this situation even if a gift link was used. I assume they just misunderstood the point of Steamgifts and thought that trading was involved.
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Thats pure bullshit (excuse me for my language). No matter what you write in your TOS if you sell a faulty product (a used key in this case) you have no right to refuse giving back a working one. That move is illegal in every single way possible.
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Ofcourse i think like that but they're saying it against TOS. What can i do so, they dont want...
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No matter what they write at their TOS as long as its against the law they are wrong. I would advise you to stick with Fanatical and if you have to buy through hb just dont give them any tip. The whole thing about we wont send you a working key because 'We are humble bundle and you are just a guy' has to stop as more and more people are being treated that way.
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but how can he prove the key was faulty?
they can just say he gave it to someone else and then tried to give it away again
there is no way for him to prove that he didn't do that
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Yes you are right on this one as its much trickier to prove that the key hasnt been used on another account.
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i would have asked the winner for the pic of error code and inventory.
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HB is in the right here, you already have the game and therefore you cant activate it a second time. Your story about gifting it to a "friend" is, sorry, bullshit. You are lucky that they didnt close your account for this.
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Wtf are you talking about? THEY give you the OPTION to gift your key to a ''friend''. If the said friend tries to use the key and it is already used they should provide a new key or refund you.
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Yeah, you should be able to gift a friend one key and after he's bored Humble should give you second key for another friend.
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But that's how your "If the said friend tries to use the key and it is already used they should provide a new key or refund you" would end.
They made gift-links so they will have at least some knowledge if they key could be used or not. With steam-keys, they have no guarantee you didn't activate it yourself, played it for few hours, decided you hate it and now want to give it to someone else.
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I see your point now. I totally agree with the gift link and that's why i always use it when i'm giving games from HB. Should have made it more clear that i'm refering to the gift link option and that in case the key your friend receives through it doesn't work they should provide a new one or a refund. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Everyone is voicing their opinion on the matter, but all that matters is what the law says in the country you purchased it in.
OP. i'd advice you to check Turkish/Russian consumer law (whichever applies in your case) and base your next move on that, HB is notorious for disregarding local laws and only acting according to U.S. laws which is what they base they T.O.S. on, regardless of their personal opinion of what you supposedly did according to them they still sold you an already redeemed licence and the burden of proof is (if your local laws are anything like the ones i'm familiar with) on them if they'd like to accuse you of something to get out of delivering said licence.
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This pretty much, for examle in Europe what they are doing is illegal in every single way so i supose (maybe) the same rules apply in Russia.
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I think what they are doing is illegal in the US as well. We have the "first sale doctrine" which allows anyone to resell copyrighted material after they are done with it. Once I purchase something, it is mine and I can do whatever I want with it, including re-selling it. Also, I don't think the TOS is legally binding, it's just the company's policy. They can stop doing business with you if they want, but if I purchase something and don't get what I payed for, I would do a charge back through my credit card company or Paypal. They have to provide you with what you paid for.
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It may be illegal but are you going to put in the time/money required to pursue the matter? Issue a chargeback and you'll almost certainly have your account locked and potentially loose everything on it.
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I haven't had a bad key from them yet, but if I do and they refuse to replace it, I will do a charge back. I will make sure my other keys from previous purchases are used first or copy them down. I would expect the rest of the keys from that bundle to be revoked. Technically they can refuse to do service with you, so they can stop you from making future purchases. I'm not sure about locking you out of keys from previous purchases, that would probably be illegal.
I would personally just make sure I have used or copied the previous keys and then do a charge back. If they lock my account, I would create another with a new email address.
I would say that, if for some reason they did something worse, like revoked other keys that were not part of that order I charged back, I would take them to small claims court, but I just looked it up and you have to file at the location of the defendant which would be San Francisco, CA. If I could file locally I would do it, but I am not going to travel across the country. Someone could do it that lives there though, it's only $30 to file (not sure if there are any other fee's) and they don't allow either side to bring a lawyer. I think it would be a pretty easy case, I bet they wouldn't even show up.
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I would personally just make sure I have used or copied the previous keys and then do a charge back.
What about books, music or DRM-free games?
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I never thought about that since I have never touched any of it, I only buy bundles for the games on Steam. I guess if they locked you out of that and someone really wanted it, they would have to take them to small claims court in California, but I don't know if you would have a case. I have no idea how the law works. I'm not sure if they legally have to provide you access to that or if they can lock you out even though you paid for it. Those type of items may be like a service where they are granting you access to them as long as you have access to the site. Kind of like having a Netflix subscription.
I would think Humble would revoke all the keys from the bundle that you charged back and then put some kind of purchase block on your account so that you can still access your previous purchases, but cannot buy anything else.
Edit: The content hosted on Humble's site is most likely considered a subscription service where you only have access while you have access to the account and you don't actually own any of it. So they can lock you out of your account and you lose everything. This is actually the same with Steam. You technically don't own any of the games on Steam, you just have a subscription service with the ability to download and play them while you have access to your Steam account. If you lose access to your Steam account for whatever reason, you lose all the games, just like you would lose all the movies and TV shows if you canceled your Netflix subscription.
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First sale doctrine does not exist for digital goods in the US. If it did, Disney and Redbox's lawsuits against each other would be pretty much over already, with Disney clearly in the wrong. But the judge has explicitly refused to apply the first sale doctrine to a digital download code in that case, so the battle continues.
“Because no particular, fixed copy of a copyrighted work yet existed at the time Redbox purchased, or sold, a digital download code, the first-sale doctrine is inapplicable to this case"
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I thought they were still in court because that is still being debated. Isn't this court case going to determine if it applies to digital content? That seems pretty ridiculous that it wouldn't apply. The item should be transferable until it is activated on an account.
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They're still in court for other reasons, but the first sale doctrine applying to digital goods is not one of them. That quote is from the judge in the case in response to a motion for summary judgment (a pretrial attempt by one side to end the case because there are no disputed facts and the law is clear). The judge decided that the issue of reselling digital codes printed on paper is unclear and denied the motion for summary judgment, but completely tossed out the first sale doctrine as an argument, because the current wording of the law and the US Patent and Trademark Office and the Copyright Office all agree - digital goods are not fixed copies.
As to why they're not covered? Here's an easy experiment. Pretend I have this steam key, 01234-ABCDE-56789. When I type it and hit submit, I'm creating a particular, fixed copy on the Steamgifts server. When you view the page, you are creating a particular, fixed copy on your hard drive, in your browser's cache. Are those two copies the same thing?
If they're not the same copy, the first sale doctrine can't apply, because the very act of transmitting something digitally creates a new copy that is different from the one that was originally sold.
If they are the same copy, how do you rationalize the same copy of something existing in two physical locations at once? No physical good can exist in multiple places simultaneously.
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But that is just a code that represents the product, there is still only one copy of the product. Once someone activates the code, they now own the only copy. You can pass the code around as much as you want but that doesn't create more copies of the product. It's the same as a book, you can pass the book around between as many people as you wan't, but only one person can own it at a time because there is only one physical copy.
I can understand if they wanted to restrict digital goods that have no copy protection, like a disk that installs as many times as you want with no verification. Then you could install a program on your computer, give the disc to someone else and they could install a second copy on their computer, now their are two copies. With a key that can only be activated once, it insures that there is only ever one copy of the product.
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By that logic, would you agree that the copy of the product does not exist yet? If so, it can't possibly covered by a first sale doctrine that requires a "particular, fixed copy".
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I don't know, that's the type of thing that would probably get debated in the supreme court. I don't know exactly what the first sale doctrine says, but maybe they need to update it for modern times to allow the software to be sold and resold as long as it has not been activated yet. I don't think it was originally written with digital content in mind and this Redbox vs Disney lawsuit will probably end up rewriting the law or creating a new one.
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Well if that's the case then copyright laws wouldn't apply to digital items either since copyright laws were created before anything digital existed.
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Except the Digital Millennium Copyright Act... and all the legislation since. Saying that one particular law hasn't been updated doesn't imply that no law has been changed in that time.
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Those are different laws. The judge was just obviously paid off in order to claim that first sale doctrine doesn't apply to that case.
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What the actual.... are you talking about.
Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about.
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a software license is not covers by the first sale doctrine
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It's not quite that simple unfortunately: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_v._Autodesk,_Inc.
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I can understand in that case because the person actually bought and was reselling software that was previously used by a company. I think it's kind of ridiculous to say that someone can't buy software that has never been used and resell it. That is exactly what every key reseller like Humble Bundle and Indie Gala already do. They buy the key, don't activate it and resell it, I should be able to do the same.
I think this is more of an issue of Humble saying that we can't sell the key in their TOS and their TOS not being law. They can refuse to do further business with someone for any reason they want, including not following their TOS, but they have to provide you with what you already paid for or give a refund.
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I'm from Turkey. And our governments or laws not protecting us against anything :) I cannot do anything, i think our politicians even doesn't know whats digital purchase :) you can see what we are doing in our country https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-13/turkey-approves-crucial-election-overhaul-seen-boosting-erdogan
I won't do chargeback, i am afraid to lose my acc and it wont worth a key which 20 cents
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Your government does protect you, in fact despite all the hate Erdogan gets his reforms have made it so that you now also enjoy almost the same consumer protection as E.U. member states, since 2014 Turkey has changed it's consumer law and specifically provisions regarding defective goods which where copied from the Directive 1999/44/EC of the European Parliament which you can find here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX%3A31999L0044
Those laws apply to you and make sure you're guaranteed a working product with the burden of proof being on the seller in the first 6 months, however I do agree that a chargeback is an overreaction at this point, rather i'd advice you to email them again but make it clear that you where misunderstood and wanted to gift a game you've purchased from them.
Besides that I really feel that at this point SG staff should contact HB and sort this out for once and for all, despite being a altruistic site with no aim towards profits it still gets the same treatment as grey market sellers like g2a and I feel like this is going to keep happening until there's finally some interaction between the 2 sites.
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I dislike Humble Bundle so much these days that I'm reluctant to use any of their bundled games for a GA. Too many bad keys upon revealing them.
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I had similar experience with humble bundle in the last monthly bundle.. in previous bundles i got the german versions of games,but cause i traveled lot and had many different ips during purchases I could change the keys to row versions via humble support, but last months support told me it´s not possible in general to change this. Ask them why theres a create gift link button, if its against their tos to give games away? :-)
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i think some of this is game companies crying about region pricing and not really humble
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On a giveaway I did some time ago I had a problem with a humble bundle key of a game I already had, so I asked if they could generate a new key for a friend, and they did with no problem at all. I guess the first context, of it being a giveaway, made them think you were re-selling or something. Cannot say for sure, but in my case, telling it is for a friend is the easiest solution.
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I think that was the right way to handle this as well.
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"Purchases made through Humble Bundle are meant for personal use only" - oh yeah, because gift links are meant for gifting games to yourself.
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Exactly my thought.
Especially funny when they bundle something more than once (Monthlies x weeklies, etc). Do they expect people who buy more than one to just sit on the extra keys?
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No, they expect us to buy and gift them to their family and friends, you know, just like "personal use" is defined.
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But that's exactly what happened with OP. He wanted to gift it. Who he gifts it to is completely irrelevant. Completely. The key said "already used". It's not terribly hard to understand that he got scammed by HB in this matter.
I've had it happen to me as well once with a key I gave to a friend. Luckily it wasn't something I had paid for, but rather a key that was part of their freebie program, so I didn't do anything about it (my friend doesn't want to use HB due to their change in ownership so I figured I'd just get him the key).
Essentially, assuming the OP isn't lying, and I don't see why he should, then he should report them for selling a broken product, and request a refund from his bank/paypal. But of course, they'll get away with it. Until it happens to the wrong person who is well connected to the press or whatever, and raises a shitstorm.
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OP revealed keys, not created a giftlinks. Humble cannot go to Valve and ask who used the keys and if they are friends with someone like that, all they can do is assume keys were used on the very moment of the uncovering them.
Seeing how much sites like SteamTrades are undercutting Humble's position in gaining new deals, no wonder they don't want to support people who are openly admiting to breaking the ToS.
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It does not matter how he gifted the key. Whether it be by giftlink or steam key. It is still a gift. What they're saying is that they don't allow any form of gifting, trading, or otherwise offloading the key, which is nonsense. The key was used. It's that simple.
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No, what they are saying is that they don't support sending
a) uncovered cd-keys
b) to people who are not your family/friends.
The key was used. It's that simple.
Yes, the key was used. But you can't prove it wasn't used by OP. Even OP can't prove it. Only Valve could prove it, but they won't bother to support Humble with such cases.
So Humble has pretty straight-forward rules - you uncover the key and didn't report any issue in few minutes after uncovering it, that means you've used it.
Otherwise everyone would uncover their keys, play for few hours, then write to Humble "I wanted to gift it to my friend but it's used, give me new key".
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Finally a guy with a working brain.
Thanks a lot. There is so much intolerance against humblebundle's behaviour in this thread.
So much desinformation in here that I don't wonder why the company is so strict, and in the right
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You can have hundreds of accounts all for your personal use, or just delete the game from your account and add it again whenever you want. Not to mention there's no limit on how many bros, sisters, children or family members you can have...
It's pretty dumb how they change their support based on what you say about how you are gonna use the key...
The point is.. You paid for a working key, so it's their job to supply one...
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Agree 100%. This is really sleazy of them, especially when it's their fault in the first place. They need to make the gift links harder to crack or get rid of them altogether. A quick search on google shows there's a serious security flaw there with so many getting stolen.
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"Personal use" does cover the "family and friends".
Because of that, you can buy and watch some DVD with friends (because DVD license allows for personal use), but you cannot buy and watch some DVD by going to the street and projecting it on some random wall (because DVD license usually forbids public use).
And because of that, you can gift your humble-purchases to your cousin and be covered by ToS.
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I'm the winner of that GA, and I don't think that could be a reason that HumbleBundle provided an invalid key before any action with it. Also, when you already have some game in your steam library, you should have rights to deal with the additional keys.
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Btw, according to Steam TOS you can have multiple accounts:
So, already having the game on your account doesn't mean additional keys can't be for your personal use... I don't get why they even ask for his steam library screenshot. They should not have any right to do that.
Also, we're talking about a multiplayer co-op game like Killing Floor here, iirc in the past I gifted at least 3-4 copies of that game to my friends just to be able to play with them... Several times I bought keys from bundle sites for games I already own so that I can play them together with my friends....
PS: They also sell 4 packs for some games on HB site. You can google "humble 4 pack" and see the links to some of them. I guess you are supposed to use all 4 copies of the same game on your personal account as well....
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I guess you are supposed to use all 4 copies of the same game on your personal account as wel
Personal Use covers family and friends. It does not cover "random people you never met before sending them the product".
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It's quite hard to objectively separate "friends" from "random people" especially if we are talking about online friends.
How do you expect someone to prove the other person is his friend and not a "random person"? Maybe we should provide screenshots of our chat, give them hard evidence such as documents showing we live, go to school or work in the same place?
Well, probably in this case the way OP handled the situation completely ruined everything for him. However, it doesn't make sense when they ask for screenshots of his game library as proof of "personal use". It is quite obvious, people buy and use these keys on more than just their personal account, since it is not even possible to do so for 4 packs or the whole purpose of gift link system is not to redeem games on your own account...
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Humble draws a distinction between keys and gift links. They give you a one-time choice after you make a purchase -- do you want to create a gift link, or do you want to redeem the key to your own Steam account? There is no option (according to their TOS) for redeeming the key to give away to someone else.
If you choose to create a gift link, you are free to provide the link to anyone you choose. And I would bet that if the recipient of the gift link had trouble, Humble would help.
But if you choose to redeem the key, that's when the TOS are activated. By redeeming the key, you are agreeing that you will activate the key on your own Steam account.
This came up last year, and at that time I decided to stop giving away Humble keys and only give away Humble gift links.
EDIT: when I make a Humble purchase for a game I already own, I don't have the option to redeem the key. The only option available is to create a gift link. Am I missing something?
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when I make a Humble purchase for a game I already own, I don't have the option to redeem the key. The only option available is to create a gift link. Am I missing something?
They can't see what you own if you unlink your Steam account.
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If you choose to create a gift link, you are free to provide the link to anyone you choose. And I would bet that if the recipient of the gift link had trouble, Humble would help.
You are wrong unfortunately, Humble Bundle are notorious for refusing to help in such cases lately: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/oQMpu/humble-bundle-doesnt-allow-giving-away-on-steamgifts
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Obviously Humble doesn't currently distinguish between "giveaways on SteamGifts" and "reselling keys", which is unfortunate.
But I wonder if the answer would have been different if that user had reported something like "hey, I sent a gift link to a friend, and they got a message that the key was already redeemed -- help!"
It seems clear that they are okay with creating gift links to send to friends... so if it was reported that way, I'd be surprised if they didn't help.
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hi, i tried to activate this key but it says it's invalid.
here's the pop up i get from steam:
https://i.imgur.com/81FyiFc.jpg
can you revoke the old key and give me a new one?
thanks!
that should have done it.
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No, he had the game already in his library and they asked for a screenshot of his library as well. Which would have made him look like a liar.
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Yep -- as was pointed out to me after my post, the recipient needs to be the one to contact Humble, not the gifter.
If the recipient had sent that message to Humble, I doubt there would have been an issue.
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The way you report your problems to the Humble Bundle support staff sure makes a difference. One of the giveaways I've won was not redeemable in my region, so I've contacted the support staff, mentioned that a friend send me a gift and I couldn't redeem it, and asked them to refund the gifter. They did it without a hitch. That is only one of the many successful support requests I've had with Humble.
Asking for help politely and succinctly will get you results. Arguing and deliberately mentioning that you're breaking their TOS won't.
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Asking for help politely and succinctly will get you results. Arguing and deliberately mentioning that you're breaking their TOS won't.
+1
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Additionally to AllTracTurbo's answer:
If you just use the bundle link from the email (not being logged in and therefore not claiming the page directly), you could also reveal everything.
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The show key option is greyed out but can still be clicked to generate a key rather than a link
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I don't think the TOS is legal, it is just their policy. If I purchase something, I own it and can give it away if I want (first sale doctrine). If I purchase a product and do not get what I purchased and they refuse to replace it, I would do a charge back through my credit card or Paypal.
The only problem with this is that Humble doesn't have to do future business with you if they don't want to. If you do a charge back, they will probably revoke the rest of the keys if you purchased a bundle and if they want to be real jerks, they may lock your Humble account.
I would personally make sure all my previously purchased keys have been used and then do a charge back. If they locked my account, I would have to create a new one with a new email and probably a new payment method.
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A software license is not covered by the first sale doctrine
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I can understand if they want to say that a software license that has been activated cannot be sold and activated again, but when you have a key that can only be activated once, that doesn't make much sense. You can take a physical disk that contains a software license, buy it and then resell it because it was never activated, that is the same as buying a key and selling it before it is activated.
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The first sale doctrine applies to the physical manifestation of a copyrighted work - a book, a CD, a game cartridge
Computer software isn’t technically sold as goods, but as a license. You pay for a license to use the software, under the terms and conditions covered by the license. It’s more akin to a rental agreement, which is also covered by terms and conditions. When you pay for a key, you’re paying for the license, and as such this is also covered by terms and conditions. (Note that different countries may have different regulations governing or limiting what terms are permissible)
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Actually under EU law it is !!! - you are free to resell your unused or unwanted and uninstalled software - go ask microsoft :P who got that rear ends smacked by the EU courts for trying to stop the selling of their licence onwards when no longer being used. In the states it is different I am led to believe, but in the EU you are more than within your rights to sell it on - I have commented on this many times in threads on steamgifts and even given the links before now to the court case - but for the life of me don't have the time to trawl for them again :P
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I don't know the ins and outs of European law, though I do recall you're probably right.
On the other hand, I am a U.S. attorney, and on this side of the pond, things work a little differently.
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yeah in the US I think it got stuck somewhere in the 9th curcuit when they ruled on it - frankly it seemed like a nice one to get a kickback on from any large corporation - otherwise why on earth would you not side with the owner of a product (I mean even second hand xbox and playstation games have been ruled in favour of the owner being able to sell them and technically they are only a licence as well - even if they do give you a disk :) (though the negative press they got when trying to change that rule probably led to them backing down :P) - and there it languishes until someone with more money takes up the batton again :OP
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in the U.S., there's a hands-off approach to contracts, the assumption being that people can agree to whatever terms and conditions they want.
Basically, if it's not specifically prohibited by law, it's probably permitted.
It's unintentionally very corporation-friendly
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Just to play the semantics game: I wouldn't call it 'unintentionally', but rather deliberately left open for interpretation - any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it ;>. If laws and their interpretations were as carved in stone as some people seem to believe, we most likely and literally would still live in the stone age with the majority of the population that worked (in) the judicial system simply being put out of work - take your pick, I guess, hehe :P. Seriously, if people would only take five minutes out of their 'busy' schedule each day and at least try to brush up on what rights they are given and what duties they are obligated (or obliged? tough one :x) by, 'common sense' would finally mirror the law (and vice versa) and people abusing the law or the lack of knowledge thereof wouldn't wield as much power as they're attributed.
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I mean it's unintentionally very corporations-friendly
all laws are open to interpretation, some deliberately, some through sloppy drafting. some are fairly narrow, but there's always room for to argue
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I mean it's unintentionally very corporations-friendly
In the United States, it's very intentional that laws are corporate friendly and hostile to consumers. Not an accident.
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In that case, Steam/Valve is the one issuing the license, right? Humble is just a 3rd party retailer reselling the product and we would have to check the license agreement from Steam/Valve to see if we are restricting from selling or giving away a Steam key.
The issue here is Humble saying in their TOS that the key is meant for use and they don't want us selling or giving it away. Isn't their TOS basically just company policy and not law. Legally then, I should be able to do whatever I want with the key as long as I don't break the license agreement that Steam/Valve sets. If I break Humble's TOS they can basically just stop doing business with me if they want.
Edit: Or does the Developer/Publisher set the licence agreement and Steam/Valve is also just a retailer? Technically, I think Steam allows every game they sell to provide their own licence agreement.
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the developer/publisher sets their license and authorizes other companies to sell them
valve and humble set the terms for the use of their storefront/platform
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So Humble can say they don't want you selling the key, but it is not law and they cannot stop you. They can just stop doing future business with you if they want. Is that correct?
Then the argument of the key not being valid is just my word against Humble's. I don't know how that would play out legally, but I would personally say that I didn't get what I paid for and they should replace it or provide a refund. They may say that I gave the key to someone else, the key is valid, and that person lying to me. So it just turns into an argument where neither side can prove whether the key was valid or not. I think in this case, Humble should replace the key and return the one that was claimed to be invalid to the developer/publisher to be deactivated and Humble should receive a replacement or refund.
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In the US, humble’s TOS is a binding contract, you’re violating the contract, and they are within their rights to rescind the key
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That seems crazy. They are just a retailer selling me a product that they didn't create. They should have no right to tell me what I can or can't do with a product after I purchase it. The publisher should be able to control the usage of their software and Steam should be able to control the distribution. Humble should only be able to control the sale and once the item is sold, they shouldn't be able to take it back.
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but if you don't like their TOS, you can go to another store.
Every digital store has TOS that are binding. Take a look at Amazon's TOS, or Ebay's.
Part of the distinction is because it's not a physical store providing physical goods. Even physical stores may establish rules beyond those set by law, though from a practical perspective they rarely do.
Quite simply, a physical store is inviting people into their place of business. It is entirely in a store's right to say you may only enter under certain terms. However, rather than make every potential customer read their TOS and sign an acknowledgement, default rules exist.
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Well i had the exact same issue with them ...
An entire bundle i bough from them with the intent to make giveaways with didnt work ... i made gift links from every key ... made 5 giveaways and had to delete all 5 cause they ware all already used .
The rest of the gift links ware also activated even before i made giveaways for them ...
They even refused to let me know if the same person activated all the keys and flat out told me any more issues i have will not be resolved .
I just dont buy from Humble anymore .
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Did they replace the keys or did you get your money back?
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Neither .
I basically lost an entire bundle ... and i didnt even get a response to maybe my account being hacked or something .
Ofc i changed password since i had other keys unrevealed there waiting to be given away . ... but after that accident i kinda lost the will to do giveaways , cause a respected site just shat on my face , and i wasted i think 15$ for .,.. nothing .
And it was a good bundle :/
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I had same experience, but only with 1$ bundle luckily (gift-links I created, 2 works fine, others not - it was even running bundle, so I bought it second time to replace keys for winners of GA). Even through they said they won't replace it, later on I found on my account whole new bundle...
Well I left humble bundle shop and never return back for paying them anything after that. I don't need them and I don't care about them anymore, it's their loss as I were monthly subscriber, but I won't deal with them after this...
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Its their loss tbh ...
I may not have been a monthly sub , but i always bough a good bundle when there was 1 .
Shitting in the face of your customers like that is not a good business model .
Plus what else am i supposed to do with the spare keys i got ...
You can trade them you cant give them away ... stupid stuff
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you need to understand something, if they allowed you to get a new key each time you have an invalid one because "a giveaway winner told me the key was already used", EVERYONE would use the same excuse. traders, resellers, g2a, card idlers, everyone would tell them the same story.
it's like sg rules where you are forced to activate your wins on your account, despite people saying "it's my win and i do whatever i want with it". if this rule wasn't in place, people would be feeding their bots to drop cents all the time, which means we would have even less honest winners.
it's not perfect, but they need a way to stop resellers and similar behavior from their customers.
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Yes, but the original key should get revoked. You can't punish honest people to try and prevent scammers. You purchased something and didn't get it. Humble has to replace the key or else I would do a full charge back for the order through my credit card or Paypal.
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go ahead and chargeback. they have their policies and you agreed to them when you signed up to use their services.
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Their TOS is not law. If you purchase something, they have to provide you with what you purchased. If you don't get what you paid for, it is very easy to get the money back, but Humble will probably lock your account and refuse to sell you any more games because it is their choice whether or not to do business with you.
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and if they wrote that you have to giveaway your liver after accepting their policies you should do it? ;)
TOS have no power if they are against the law of any country of their customers.
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lol, I'm sure you read the TOS of every site before you create an account :)
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no, but i don't cry about it when they point out i'm off limits.
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I really hope you don't believe what you are saying because it is scary.
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Here's how big a printout of Facebook's privacy agreement is. It was brought up in court recently that it is longer than the book The Great Gatsby. You think the millions of people that use the site should read, understand, and abide by it or else it is their fault? The lawyers can't even understand everything it says.
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Yes, of course they should. Stop making everything someone else's fault. Take responsibility for your own actions and stop playing the ignorance card.
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Laws are meant to be reasonable and just, you cannot reasonably expect someone to read a books worth of legal content and understand it just to create an account and use a site. That is ridiculous and these companies are going to lose lawsuits because of it. I think they are passing or have recently passed laws restricting this type of business practice.
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How to get rich; bury the poor in bullshit. The oldest lawyer trick in the book is to create an impassable wall of mumbo-jumbo or stall for time till the other side runs out of funds. :P
I don't think it will disappear after the Facebook thing.
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They have already passed laws in Europe and they go into effect next month.
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+1 It's sad people can be either so ignorant or hypocrite...
KeePass says I have over 1000 (that's right, 1 thousand) accounts. How can I be expected to read 1000 huge TOS and still have time to live normally? There's a reason why TOS and other things like privacy polices are still subject to the law: they are just impossible to handle individually.
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Humble Bundle died after they were purchased by IGN.
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Literally nothing to do with this since it was already like that before they bought HB, IGN isn't to blame everytime a butterfly farts
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Create another Steam account, try to activate the game. If it doesn't work, contact Humble support again and show that your trial of personal activation doesn't work. It's the last possibility for the contact with Humble support. If it was a more recent purchase, you could contact your payment provider (PayPal, credit card provider) to even enforce an charge back.
People already reported that Humble Support even answered this way in case of gift links. And that's the point were they loose my mutual understanding.
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Lots of people here who think the law operates differently than it actually does
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"Are you kidding with me ? Your words seems doesn't legal. You're seller and i'm buyer. I bought that key so i can do whatever i want. I can sell, giveaway or i can delete all key."
You screwed yourself with that line right there. When you told them you had the right to sell the key, you just labeled yourself a grey market reseller in their eyes and they were officially done with you. It doesn't matter that you were actually trying to give the game away here, as far as they're concerned you admitted to reselling keys. It sucks, but you would have been better off not mentioning SG at all, and you sure shouldn't have uttered the word "sell". Your best move at this point might be to make a whole new HB account for future purchases, since this one has been flagged as a reseller.
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When you told them you had the right to sell the key, you just labeled yourself a grey market reseller in their eyes and they were officially done with you.
This.
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I think it's better to use humble bundle gift link.so that if there is problem in key you can say that you gifted the copy to a friend and it's not working.in that way I think they will replace the key if it has any problems.as you had revealed the key it may look like you are reselling or trading key.just my opinion
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I'm not buying much from HB this days but if I do they have zero tip from me. But without HB there is only Fanatical for bundles with actual games. Even IG sells some garbage games.
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you legit told on yourself lol. thats like a drug dealer calling the cops to complain their drugs were stolen. HB is highly against regifting keys.
the very first message you sent to them should have just been about a friend, not a giveaway
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thats like a drug dealer calling the cops to complain their drugs were stolen
Actually - no. HB ToS is against law in many countries (for example all European Union countries) and since HB is running service for those countries they should obey this law. But well, who have time to deal with them in the court for few dollars?
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That incident gets more and more common day by day so i wouldnt be surpised if someday someone step up and go in the court for it. If that happens, good luck humble bundle.
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So, can you explain me why there is a option for creating "gift link" ? Or why they sells a game in multiple bundles/monthly's ?
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its for friends only. or family. they dont want you giving to strangers
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You got what is essentially their automated response. These rules exist because HB decided a while ago that their reputation among developers was more important then their reputation among customers. Most developers don't even know about things like steamgifts, so HB sees no reason to make any considerations for the more generous side of their userbase.
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If theu don’t have a good reputation with developers there won’t be any more decent bundles and they lose their reputation with customers anyway
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Yep.
Still, it is sad that a company founded around charity would be so apathetic towards those whose charitable actions extend beyond just giving them money.
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look at it from the other side. reselling/trading is a major problem affecting the game industry right now. if a handful of legitimate gifts get caught up with all the inappropriate reselling/trading, unfortunately that's just collateral damage
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There was a thread about this, can't find it ;_;
Humble support is good, problem in words that you used in your tickets.
- Don't say something about steamgifts to hb support. If they open https://www.steamgifts.com - they will see "Trades" button anyway xD
- You need to write that u gave extra key to your friend, not so someone random
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But they know what steamgifts is.
No, "they" don't. The people in frontline support don't know or care anything about SG. They are paid to deal with things in a generalized manner, and if you use any words or talk about anything that doesn't involve your personal use or giving something to a friend, that immediately activates their training to deny you support.
The first rule of SteamGIfts is that you don't talk about SteamGifts when asking for any help from a retailer.
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Hello to all, i am very sorry about this problem. Let me tell you all story.
May you know me, may not. I made some giveaways on last days. You can see on https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/PSfYj/im-loving-giving-gifts-l3bonus-added and https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/rn9fU/lots-of-trash Some keys comes Fanatical, some from Humble Bundle.
One of my key has problem, in this giveaway https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/xjBKg/killing-floor
Ps: All keys revealed when creating ga's.
Key says "Used before". And of course i send a ticket HB and here is the messages. If someone wants i can forward original mails, all words following are untouched even a point.
Please write something to me. Am i wrong ?
EDIT 2: I LOVE HUMBLE BUNDLE. They were did something good for me. One time i was scammed for game NBA 2K17, THEY GAVED ANOTHER KEY, I said wow it was worthy game. One time they refunded wrong purchase. IDK Why they answer me like that. Supports changed ?
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