I noticed these users tend to have a common pattern. They're usually very high level. The vast majority of their GAs are group-only or WL (and where the majority of their CV is from). These GAs have very low number of entries, typically 0-30. Any public GAs they do make are mostly cheap bundled games. Most of their good or full CV games are group-only. Their sent/won ratio can be pretty disproportionate, like 1:5 or 1:10. A fair number of them seem to be from regions like eastern Europe or Asia.

I feel like they're gaming the system somehow. If someone from a country that routinely has region locks, like in CIS, makes a region-restricted GA for an unbundled game do they still get full CV? I'm wondering if they're acquiring games cheaply from their region and then making group-only GAs to bypass any reduced CV limitation.

I wish there was a way to filter out users who have X percentage of group CV.

1 month ago*

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If someone gives something they are totally free to whom they give it.

And I can assure you that it does not give you anything if you have a high level on this site. Most giveaways are level 0 public anyway ;)

The world would be a better place if people stop looking for others who seemingly have an unfair advantage instead of being pleased by what they have/got themselves.

1 month ago
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I also think the world would be a better place if people gave to everyone instead of giving to only a few while also taking from everyone and not letting them take back.

1 month ago
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I just want to be nice and give away some keys. I dont have a lot of money but, it's all about the thought.

The message in the description of the public giveaway you won 2 weeks ago. Let it sink in for a minute.
The world would be a better place if everyone were like that guy.

1 month ago
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I deleted my level 10 account because I got bored. I can say that when I created a new account, my number of victories did not fundamentally change (on average, I win 1 game / dlc in 1-2 months).
I noticed that the greatest number of wins can be obtained in the 2-4 levels giveaway.

1 month ago
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A couple of times I felt the site could be even more awesome If there were no levels or groups so everyone could have the same chance no matter what, the auto joiners are a bigger concern here imo. Imagine 1 copy of Cyberpunk 2077 with 50K entries, that's kinda cool, like playing a small lottery.

I think even Fanatical Games is selling region restricted titles now so many people here are getting more and more limited which It sucks. So It doesnt matter If latin América pay euros or dollars as an example.

Forget about It, not worth the time.

1 month ago
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Levels do limit chances, at least on some degree. I am not certain about groups, though. The idea that if creating group giveaways would be disabled, all future group giveaways would transfer into public ones is naive, in my opinion. I would wager that group giveaways were likely made because of the availability of that medium. Without it, those giveaways would have likely not been made. But I acknowledge that I don't have data to verify that.

1 month ago
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I mean, the user can do with their games whatever they want to. They're their games. They don't have to give them away at all.

1 month ago
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True. And we can choose who can enter our giveaways because they're our games.

1 month ago
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I just don't think it's something you need to get so worked up over. Are you giving away your games to the standards you've personally set as ethical? If so, fuck everybody else and how they're doing it. You can keep your head held high and stay proud that you never compromised your beliefs.

1 month ago
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nah, everybody should do as I said, because I'm a moral authority...also fuck poor countries, f-ing commies

1 month ago
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I'm not active these days, but I did give to groups. These were groups like Unlucky-7. That's not gaming the system, just using criteria which the system doesn't provide. Had the system provided the means of gifting to those who haven't won much, or to those who are playing their wins (like what Playing Appreciated provides), then such groups wouldn't have been needed.

Whitelist giveaways also go to people who fall into a specific criterion. That's what groups and whitelists and private giveaways do, provide alternative criteria. It's no different than limiting by CV, and I don't think it makes sense to condemn groups and then limit by CV. If you don't care for limiting by CV, there's no point in complaining about people gaming CV.

Yes, SG is a game, and people game it. If you gift to the likes of Unluck-7 or Playing Appreciated then you know that your gift at least has some meaning. If you gift on SG in general, you know that your gift is most likely to go to someone who doesn't need it. The biggest gifters, the ones who gift unbundled games, they don't need charity. It doesn't matter who they gift to, public, group, whitelist or forum, the idea that they deserve to win is silly. In the end, SG is just a means of random trading, exchanging games between people who typically already have too many games to ever play even a fraction of them.

1 month ago
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SG is about gifting games, not about charity. No one needs a game, and at the same time, I would wager that nobody here truly deserves to win either. That being said, on personal level, certain people winning does make me more happy than others. That motivates me to create more giveaways for those people. Creating giveaways is an action and every action has some motivation behind it. There are so many people here and everyone has their own motivations why they make giveaways. Or not. Trying to group everyone into the same mold would be kinda futile. I ponder why these discussion keep popping up year after year. :p

1 month ago
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SG is about gifting games, not about charity.

I agree. That's why I felt that the OP doesn't have a point. If someone is gifting to their friends, that's fine. SG is simply a platform for gifting. By offering CV, SG advocates a certain view of who deserves to win, but there's no moral or other reason to stick to that view. If SG isn't about charitable gifting, then people shouldn't be on any high horse when it comes to who deserves to win or to get CV or whatever.

It would have been nicer if it was more about charity, the way it was early on, but I understand that charity is not really needed these days. People can build a pretty respectable gaming library just from Epic's game giveaways, or buy a lot of games for cheap in bundles. The market is very different from when SG started.

I think that's why SG has been declining. Some people still enjoy playing the SG game, exchanging games in a semi-random way, but the charity aspect, the feeling that what you give has any meaning, is long gone.

1 month ago
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I think there are multiple reason why SG has been declining (in users and activity). Yours could be one of them. Number of new members has dropped rapidly and even greater decline has been in the discussion activity. Combined that means no new blood and less reasons for old community members to stick around. You also made a good point that the market has truly changed in these years. Bundles were a new thing when SG started. Game inflation, increased region restrictions or changes in pricing might also have some impact.

1 month ago
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Agreed, it's not the only reason.

I think that it's just become a not very welcoming community. People need to do quite a bit of work before they're able to get into giveaways for desirable games, let alone win anything, and anyone complaining about this or even asking is likely to get some rude responses and blacklists.

A lot of nice people have left here simply because some less nice people dominated the forums. I think it's a little better now, but I'm not sure, since I'm less active in general, including at reading the forums.

So yes, quite a few reasons beyond just the fact that it's not all that needed.

For new users, my guess is that it's simply hard to get in. If nothing has changed recently, signing up requires $100 in non-bundled games. I remember people complaining about not being able to register with their account in the past, and the more games are discounted, the less possible it becomes to get the required value. It would be interesting to know how much of an issue this really is, but it does seem to me like a barrier that makes it more likely that the people who do get here don't actually need the games, certainly not those given at low levels.

1 month ago
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It would have been nicer if it was more about charity, the way it was early on.

The idea of charity when it comes to gaming sounds nice but if you check a random user with 150 or even just 30 wins with Do You Even Play, Bro? any charitable intentions disappear faster than a snowball in hell.

If you haven't done it yet you probably shouldn't. It's really depressing.

😕

1 month ago
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That's why I always wanted things other than CV to filter out people.

1 month ago
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The Playing Appreciated group may have been a good group at some stage, but there are far too many people in that group now who only do the bare minimum to stay in the group, rather than completing any game they win. I left the group when I realised many of my gifts were still going to people who were just screwing the system. I've seen people in that group who have won so many games they would need a few years to complete them all.

1 month ago
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I'm saddened to hear it.

1 month ago
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Could you clarify that a bit? How do people do bare minimum because you are not the first person to criticize PA. I haven't had problems with them but at the same time, I haven't reviewed my winners that closely. Do you recommend some other group which has similar aim?

1 month ago
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I won't go into detail but if somebody really wants to it's very easy to fake those kind of things. And unless that person is completely stupid it's next to impossible to detect.

I haven't checked the recent winners neither but those people who would do such a such will aways find a way to weasel through :/

1 month ago*
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I know about that tool. I merely wish to drop some gaming gifts from time to time to people who would enjoy them. What I don't want, is another job where I have to keep checking and guessing if they actually played it. Hence, some existing group where things work would be nice. There are always bad apples but as long as things work relatively well, it is enough.

1 month ago
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https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/C3vvd/join-masafors-group-of-friends

For GA's without a "play your wins" and if you write that the winner have to play the win in X weeks/months then we demand that it gets followed if someone enter the GA.
I think i am very well known for the fact that no cheating/exploiting people are around me and so not in the group, or at least not long ;o)

If you want more Infos about your questions related PA and winners, then send me a friend request at steam or add me at discord Masafor#1075
I am, sadly, not able to point here at the black sheeps that use at discord 6 accounts+ to cheat at GA's, sell their wins and such stuff (and yes PA know about that specific user ... they don't care because it isn't at sg...).

And such people use for sure the Program sundance and you spoke before about to have their wins "played".

1 month ago*
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I checked the requirements of your group but they aren't really matching my criteria at this point. Thanks for the tip, though!

1 month ago
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Nope, I don't belong to any giveaway groups anymore. A combination of obligations and assholes has made me realise I should just do my own thing.

1 month ago
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Yes, it's very easy to spot them there.
And it is clear that the idea is good but the execution of the idea isn't -at least not the last months-.

1 month ago
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idling appreciated ^^

1 month ago
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Most of my giveaways are group giveaways but they are for my personal steam group and basically anyone can join. I just like having a say on who can enter my giveaways.

1 month ago
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Happy cake day! :)

1 month ago
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Thank you!

1 month ago
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Enjoy your cake day.

1 month ago
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Thanks!

1 month ago
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Happy cake day :o)

1 month ago
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Thanks :D

1 month ago
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Happy cake day L8!

1 month ago
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Thank you!

1 month ago
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All the comments here are so interesting, i have spent the past hour reading all of them. I will grab a popcorn and be back 2 days later :v

1 month ago
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I see the op points, but what they do in their bedroom is their business unless they invited me.

1 month ago
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lol, half or more people with 9 or 10t levels didn't spend a penny
and you are calling leechers people who are making GA's with their own money but for smaller groups and created communities by this btw.
I don't like public GAs because winners rarely even say thanks and most of the time got like 1/10 cv.
Also, people make good group GAs not only because they like people in the group, but because most of the time group rules dictate it. And let's face it best you can win in public GA is a game from the monthly bundle.

1 month ago
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Half or more people with 9 or 10t levels didn't spend a penny

Do you mean developer key beggars?

1 month ago
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yepp

1 month ago
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Yeah, those are disgusting. UNLESS they have NEVER entered or even WON a single gib.

If they don't enter any giveaways at all, I suppose it doesn't matter.

1 month ago
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7 out of your last 10 wins (and 16 of your last 25) were from public giveaways.
Why are you entering so many of them, especially after remarking negatively about their quality?

1 month ago
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I missed the rule that I can't do it

1 month ago
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also, I don't think I didn't really say anything negative about the quality, I'm fine with bundled games. So.....

1 month ago
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What does it matter what they spent? They're creating GAs isn't that what counts? You're claiming all their keys, even from bundled games, are from begging the devs. How do you know this?

If you take a lot more than you give regardless of public/group community then yes you are a bit of a leecher. Just because it's public doesn't make it ok. What would happen if you did the same thing in your group? You would be kicked out for not contributing and being a leecher.

It should be clarified: you don't like creating public GAs but you don't have any problems entering and winning as many public GAs as you want.

We should also clarify: you like group GAs because of the premium quality games and the low number of entries for each GA which substantially increases your chances of winning. Why would you bother making a high quality public GA when it won't help you win anything in the future right?

The best you can win in a public GA is an unbundled game, same as a group GA. You've already won several such as: Disobedient Sheep, BeamNG.drive, The Evil Within, Adam's Venture: Origins. Why do you act like you've never won a public unbundled GA? Maybe you just forgot about them because they're overshadowed by the more popular expensive group GA wins. I guess I can see why you look down on pub GAs. But besides possibly being a leecher it also makes you look ungrateful.

1 month ago
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oh, lots of stuff, anyway
Basically, you contradict yourself, just by saying "What does it matter what they spent? They're creating GAs isn't that what counts? ". So it's unimportant to you what they spent, but important how much money spent people from outside the US and western Europe. And yeah I know some of the key beggers, it doesn't necessarily mean that 100% of the GA are dev keys, but they use them to boost their level, gain cv in groups, and to make their own groups. But whatever.

You are ignoring my (and others) arguments, and sees only what you wanna see. In your pathetic personal attack, you found 4 games in my whole winning library, but not real arguments, congrats...but at least one of them with the region lock (you hate), and two were heavily discounted at the time (75%). It's not like it matters, but still, you went through all these troubles. Personally, I'm entering GA's for the free gamble...I like seeing the cat, and I'm active only in 2-3 groups, also I'm trying to stick to wishlist only policy. And I'm trying to play my wins, that is all I can do. And I'm really doesn't giveaway, to raise my chances...I really cannot care less. I just giveaway to people I like and who'd play games they win. Also, I like to participate in public events, it's fun at least. Go try to reason with thousand bots in every public GA.

Everybody got their own rules about public GAs, because sg design that way, you are trying to force your vision on everybody. Dude, climb down, are you trying to make public GAs somehow unpublic or to make everybody to censored yourself? You are going against the spirit of the sg itself and as you most of the people here don't care about your reasoning, because they are envious, childish, and whiny. And some of them are kinda evil...arguing that all people around the globe should pay the same amount to have the same things is ignorant and egotistical. Even fing BigMac costs differently depending on the country.

1 month ago*
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Ok fine so people who give away dev keys should get 0 CV because they didn't pay anything at all? Maybe that would be more fair?

I'm sure you have a lot more than 4 unbundled pub GAs. I just picked some quickly. I didn't even look at the "private" GAs that can also be public.

I'm not trying to force anything. I'm just pointing out that SOME people like to take more than they give and when they do give it's only for a few close friends. Hey that's their right but they shouldn't get mad if people call them out for being a little more selfish. Just admit it.

I didn't say everyone around the world should pay the same for the same thing. I said you can't claim the value of what you paid is the same as other economies. If I pay $4 for a Big Mac and you pay $1 and you give it away to someone in your country can you then say you gave away a $4 Big Mac? No because you didn't. If you gave it to someone in MY country then you could say that because that's what it's worth in my country. Does that seem unreasonable? If we applied SG's policy to real life it would destroy economies. People would be buying shitloads of Big Macs and selling them to richer regions and making bank lol

1 month ago
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I have an idea, why not make a group exclusively for people who don't want to give to those kinds of people, and only give away decent games in that group? :D

1 month ago
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I used to do WL giveaways that got under 5 entries and I remember some dude even made fun of me that I give games and don't get CV for them. Look, SG is full of bots and people who hoard games, they are gaming the system more than anyone. Not that I was giving away super awesome games, but I'd rather give it to someone who earned a spot in my whitelist than some stranger who just loves free shit. Take all of my levels and CV away, lock me out of every GA I probably won't enter and definitely won't win anyway, like I would care. The only reason I'm still here is shitposting and procrastination.

1 month ago
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how do people even notices this? are you actively checking other's people profiles looking for it? guess i've been using this site wrong by minding my own business

1 month ago
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I was glancing over some of the entries for my GA and noticed a number of users with huge ratio disparities (low Sent numbers compared to Won) even though many of them were very high level. I figured it should be the other way around so I looked into it more and discovered most of them were part of giveaway groups.

1 month ago
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I hear you. I've always thought 5 entries was too low as it allowed small groups to game the system. You've been here alot longer than me, yet my opinion about groups keep changing...and probably will keep changing.
I finally went into several groups for a several reasons which sadly was to avoid:
people that gave away shovelware who rapidly ranked up.
people that were looking for +1 game on Steam and NOT actually attempt to play the game I gifted.
people that wouldnt mark a GA as received without pulling teeth.
Groups do exclude people, yet with the foundation here, my personal opinion/preference found me going into groups I wouldnt have gotten into a year ago when I started.

1 month ago
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I've found I won more games in groups, so I tend to give my better giveaways in groups. I don't enter many giveaways now, so when I do I want a good chance to actually win it. I don't care about library +1's.

When you add monthly group quotas I don't have to many public giveaways unless I do a Fanatical mystery box gamble lol. I've also been pausing a few HB monthlies so don't have as many spares as I used to.

Usually when I give better games for the sake of it, I prefer to give to someone more likely to play the game as well, so will try gift to a variation of Playing Appreciated, my Whitelist and groups formed from people who have completed a game on PAGYWOS or actively post on Backlog Assassin's.

1 month ago
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I feel like they're gaming the system somehow.

You seem to be drawing conclusions without sufficient evidence, here. Let me elaborate.

  • [These users are] usually very high level. (Something which is independent of Steam Group membership.)
  • The vast majority of their GAs are group-only or WL (Like a large percentage of users on this site.)
  • These GAs have a very low number of entries, typically 0-30. (Like most other group giveaways.)
  • Any public GAs they do make are mostly cheap, bundled games. (Like most other users on the site.)
  • Most of their good or full CV games are group-only. (Like most other users on this site.)
  • Their sent/won ratio can be pretty disproportionate, like 1:5 or 1:10. (Like every other user on this site.)
  • A fair number of them seem to be from regions like eastern Europe or Asia. (Like a large number of users on this site.)

You say that these traits are "common" among SG users who do mostly group GA's, but the fact of the matter is that those traits are also common to most of our users. More to the point, being a member of Steam groups that use SG for gift-giving will pretty much impose those descriptors upon you due to how most of those groups function. Only the first trait, that of being high level, is independent of every other characteristic of our users. If you see a level 10 user, there is no indication of how or why that person reached level 10 aside from having gifted a bunch of games.

Keep in mind that the purpose of SteamGifts is to facilitate the gifting of Steam games using a lottery system. That is all. Additional functions have been added to our site for the benefit of our users. Aside from flagrant abuse of our site's functions, or harm to our community, you are basically free to use our site to send whatever Steam gifts you wish to whichever Steam users you wish. It is not our job to ensure you have "pure motives." It is not our job to ensure you give "the right amount." It is not our job to ensure you gift to "the right people." In short, it is not our job to redistribute the wealth of the world such that everyone gets "their fair share." That is not our job. However, if you wish to do so, you may police yourself in such a manner. After all, you are the ultimate authority over what you do and why you do it.

As for what everyone else thinks, feels, says, and does, that is their choice, and the rest of us reserve the right to react accordingly.

1 month ago
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I wasn't asking or expecting SG to impose rules to make things more fair or whatever. I was just making observations about what I noticed about some groups. Thanks for the info

1 month ago
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Thx everyone for the replies and for putting up with my ranting. I didn't plan on having a long drawn out debate about this so I'm just gonna close this. I appreciate the opinions and learned some things and disagreed with a few things. Time to move on.

1 month ago
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Closed 1 month ago by PicoMan.