I noticed these users tend to have a common pattern. They're usually very high level. The vast majority of their GAs are group-only or WL (and where the majority of their CV is from). These GAs have very low number of entries, typically 0-30. Any public GAs they do make are mostly cheap bundled games. Most of their good or full CV games are group-only. Their sent/won ratio can be pretty disproportionate, like 1:5 or 1:10. A fair number of them seem to be from regions like eastern Europe or Asia.

I feel like they're gaming the system somehow. If someone from a country that routinely has region locks, like in CIS, makes a region-restricted GA for an unbundled game do they still get full CV? I'm wondering if they're acquiring games cheaply from their region and then making group-only GAs to bypass any reduced CV limitation.

I wish there was a way to filter out users who have X percentage of group CV.

2 days ago*

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You can set filters on your invite only GAs with sgtools to keep them from entering.

2 days ago
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You can't filter by CV though. I'd have to exclude an entire country which isn't that fair either.

2 days ago
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With SGTools you can.

2 days ago
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You can filter them by max percentage group GA, by either number or real CV... or combine both.
For example ... no more than 70% group GAs (in number AND realCV in this case) should look something like this:
((real_sent_group < 0.7 real_sent_cv) || (num_sent_group < 0.7 num_sent) )

2 days ago*
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oh sry I didn't see sgtools in your OP. I was talking about public GAs though. Thanks for the filter I might use that.

2 days ago
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I'm by no means a high level, and by no means do I have any high value giveaways created, however, I do have a lot of group only + whitelist giveaways. So I just wanted to share my experiences. I'm never sure about my keys so I usually just use a group called 'lootboy' for my giveaways which just gives me a bit of a safety net incase the key doesn't work. Funnily enough not a single one of my giveaways has had to be deleted (yet, and I want to keep it that way). So the majority of my giveaways are locked behind this group (it's completley public and anyone can join). I usually use it even if the key I'm using isn't from lootboy.
I'm fine with restrictions and filter conditions with places like sgtools as igle has said above, but I feel I would fall under quite a few of these filters, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who makes giveaways and restricts them to open groups with thousands of members.

Just for reference I haven't used SGTools, so I am not sure but from what I have seen they have a lot of different filters and filtering options, so I am not sure if they have filtering by group CV, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

Just my two cents

2 days ago
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I'm not talking about you. The people I'm talking about create group GAs that almost always have less than 20 entries. So it's like a super exclusive group that only share high value games with each other.

2 days ago
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I was talking more about the banket 'more than X CV is group giveaways' rules. Since that would filter out a lot of people that might make a lot of group giveaways, such as the example I outlined above.

But I understand what you mean, groups where it could be people farming cv.

2 days ago
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I'm sorry, but what is CV?

2 days ago
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Contributor Value. Everything you need to know can be read in the site's FAQ.

2 days ago
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Contributor value,basically "xp" based on giveaways. Reaching milestones in CV means advancing levels, getting access to more (possible) giveaways.

2 days ago
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I'm wondering if they're acquiring games cheaply from their region and then making group-only GAs to bypass any reduced CV limitation.

Absolutely. That's why I do it, everything for CV. I mean, it's obviously impossible to imagine that giving away, for instance, games that you've enjoyed and want to share can be fun by itself and that giving it in the region-locked form might be literally the only option, because some weirdos live in poorer regions, and ROW keys are just way to expensive for them - oh, and that one can get tired of rudeness of compatriots who don't bother with a simple "thanks" and therefore start making their unfortunately region-locked GAs group only. Also, are you seriously suggesting that people from cheaper regions shouldn't get full CV?

2 days ago
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The people I'm talking about have like 80%+ of their GAs group only. They only share with a tiny number of people in their group, usually less than 20 entries, many times less than 10. I understand their keys may be region locked but they don't make region restricted GAs. They make group-only. They could still make a public GA that's region restricted but they choose not to.

And yes I think it is a bit unfair if you live in a much cheaper region but you still get the same amount of CV as someone else who paid full or close to full price.

2 days ago
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And yes I think it is a bit unfair if you live in a much cheaper region but you still get the same amount of CV as someone else who paid full or close to full price.

If it's regional pricing, they are paying full price for their region.

2 days ago
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But aren't they getting much more CV than they paid? The same as ROW regions?

2 days ago*
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Should you get less CV than me then? Because as someone who pays in € I pay ~ 15% more than you in the US in most cases?
Or should I get more CV, seeing as SG uses the US prices as basis for CV?

2 days ago
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I'd be perfectly fine with that.

2 days ago
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No, they're getting exactly their due CV. They're getting full CV for paying full price.

Consider this - if you live somewhere making $250/month, do you really expect someone to pay $60 for a game? I mean, there's a good reason regional pricing exists at all.

I'm from the USA, where the standard of living is much higher, so I fully expect to pay more for my games, but I also understand that's not the case everywhere else, and there are places where no one would be able to afford games if it weren't for regional pricing.

2 days ago
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If they paid $10 and get $60 CV and I paid $60 and get $60 CV how are they getting their due CV?
I don't have a problem with regional pricing. I'm talking about CV on SG.

2 days ago*
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The answer is within the complete understanding of the word "Contributor Value", I think.

2 days ago
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You do realize that you're basically suggesting a discrimination by region, right? That you should receive more CV for the same games bought on the same site just because you are fortunate enough to have been born in a rich country?

2 days ago
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Regional pricing is also discrimination. But it's a "good discrimination" that benefits those regions. Isn't it also discrimination (in your favor) to get far more than what you paid? I don't see why it's unfair to get the value that you paid for. If I was able to pay $1 for a $60 game would you really think it's fair for me to get $60 CV for a region-restricted GA?

2 days ago
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Because it's not about how much they paid, it's about whether or not they paid full price.

In not so many words, you're saying someone who pays less (but still pays full price) for a game from a country where the average wage is much lower should get less CV. So it should take someone from Eastern Europe (edit: or wherever, I'm don't follow international wages and cost of living) five to ten times as long to level up as it does someone like me, who makes a (somewhat) decent living? And they should spend a much higher percentage of their monthly income to do so?

Nah, I can't agree with that at all.

2 days ago
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So let's say I buy a designer leather jacket in U.S. for $300. It's worth $300. Someone buys that same exact jacket in their country for $75. Is it now worth $300 in their own region because it's worth $300 in first world countries and they paid full regional price for it?

2 days ago
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Forgive me for answering a question with a question, but it's applicable - do you believe you should pay 50 cents for a meal where you live simply because someone else pays 50 cents a meal (and makes $2 an hour) where they live?

I get that you feel someone should only get what they paid for in CV. I disagree 110% due to regional pricing being a thing, and the reasons behind it. Regional pricing is supposed to be fair pricing. As long as they're paying full price, they deserve full CV.

2 days ago
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You're asking about regional pricing. I already said I don't have a problem with that. That's a fair thing. But it doesn't mean if they sell the thing they bought it should suddenly be worth the same as other countries. Isn't this the reason for SG's policy of bundle games having less value? Because we bought the bundle games for super cheap so therefore it doesn't count as full CV? How is this any different?

2 days ago
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In a nutshell, you want poorer countries to get less CV for giving away the same games you do, despite the fact that the game might cost them a much greater percentage of their income.

Sorry, but I find that a callous and insensitive perspective, and one with which I will never agree. :/

2 days ago
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I'm really bothered by what you are saying. Those people aren't cheating the system, the points given are based on the price in dollars and the regional pricing is fortunately not applied on this website or it would be really unfair.
You think of the problem in a wrong way. Instead of considering the price of the game, consider the percentage of your monthly money it costs, you'll soon realize that the percentage is equal, if not lower than someone who lives in a poor country.
What is rewarded with CV isn't exactly the full price of the game, but that percentage, to make it even USD was chosen as the currency.

1 day ago*
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you have nothing to complain about, I'd have to pay Steamcoats Inc $425aud, not $175usd, so much for fair and equitable
and I've lived in Brazil, they both need and deserve the discount and full CV
as a California farmboy, I propose for Texans to pay twice as much and receive half CV ^^

2 days ago*
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I'm on your side. Ozzies have been getting ripped off on video games for years. I think serious amends need to be made. All video games should be half price for ozzies for the next decade.

2 days ago
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😊πŸ₯³

2 days ago
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Don't forget a CPI adjusted 50% cash rebate for all previous purchases
and you have to scull a yard glass everytime you misspell Aussie

View attached image.
View attached image.
2 days ago
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The prince of darkness called, he wants his minions back.

1 day ago
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What about the people who pick up a $60 non-bundle game on a grey market for less than $10? Or they might grab a key on sale for 80% off. The majority of people giving away non-bundle games aren't buying them at full price either. I don't see the problem there though since they're still making a gift to the community.

(Sure, I never buy from grey market. But, I have also never bought a new full-priced game for myself in the past 3 years. I can't afford it currently due to financial limitations. So unless it's heavily discounted, most games I give away here have been bundled.)

If we're giving away the same game, regardless of region, we should get the same CV. It just makes the whole thing equal across the board. =)

If you wanted to penalise people who deliberately only give games to a small group + region restrictions by lowering gained CV, you'd also be penalising all the nice people from those less expensive regions who probably find it difficult to afford new games to play. I think the needs of the many outweigh the sins of the few in that case. Hehe =)

2 days ago*
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If they pay a day's pay for a game, and you pay a day's pay for the same game, does it really matter if it is $10 to your $60?

17 hours ago
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don't you find it unfair that someone gets much less money for literally the same job in another country?

2 days ago
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I make mostly group GA because I give back to where I get wins. I very rarely win in public GAs given the number of entries and when I do, I tend to add the gifter to my WL but really it's only a matter of balance.
I got real tired of giving away games to people who have given 1 to 3 games and have won several hundreds and whose last GA was created 4 years ago, and who never even say thanks when they win.

It's really not a matter of cheating the system. I mean CV is pretty much useless once you reach level 5 anyway so it's not like anyone getting more CV is going to win super prizes considering the number of GA above level 4 and how many entries these have anyway.

I do get your point with people using the region locks to game the system though. I have seen people lock all their GAs for people in their own country with ROW keys, like Germany or the US or Sweden (??!) and that seems to be some kind of nationalistic xenophobic BS but whatever, their keys, their choice.

1 day ago
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Some games really may have locks in unusual countries because of a specific package for this one country (like Wolfenstein in Germany with censorship version for Germany only).

1 day ago
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Well, Germany is not a good example although all the games given by that one user locked in Germany, that's a little suspicious.
The US though? Or that guy who had created a GA for games and deleted them to include literally all of Europe except France (maybe they beat his team at soccer or something lol who knows?) and that's quite a lot of work because you need to select countries one by one instead of using presets, it's hardcore.

1 day ago
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Despite totally agreeing with you over all points, i find exclude france case so goddamn funny. Cant imagine how bright someone back burns if he do things like this.
"Oh u won a football match, lets see what ull do here? Take this! TAKE THIS1!1 Ull never get my gifts! Who won how?! HAHAhahah!"

1 day ago
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"Oh u won a football match, lets see what ull do here? Take this! TAKE THIS1!1 Ull never get my gifts! Who won how?! HAHAhahah!"

LMAO, right? Damn, that's salty!

23 hours ago
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How would it be nationalistic or xenophobic to not want a game you just paid 60€ for to go to somebody who could purchase it from their regional Steam store for 7€?
That's just gifting 53€ to Valve with no added benefit, nothing else.

Of course there's the option to send the winner a digital Steam gift card with the right amount instead so they can purchase it themselves but that is

  • only borderline within the rules and could even be interpreted as gaming the system
  • slightly risky because I'm not sure Steam documents the digital gift cards you send and I'm also not entirely sure Support considers "giving the winner the right amount to purchase their win from their local store" as making good on your giveaway
  • also a bit complicated to explain to users who are not that familiar with how SG works.
1 day ago*
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You probably already see my point since you're a regular but let me elaborate further just for the sake of clarity.

To somebody in one of the cheaper Store regions a worldwide copy of a very new game like Cyberpunk 2077 is NOT superior to one purchased from their local store for a fraction of the price IN ANY WAY.

To somebody in one of the most expensive regions on the other hand a worldwide copy of said game is very much superior to one purchased from one of the cheaper regions simply because they can't activate and run the latter since Valve imposed restrictions on cross region trading.

1 day ago
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Of course I see your point. That wasn't what I meant. Region locks on SG exist for a reason and that reason is exactly what you're describing. Well, the real reason is the other way around for Valve (meaning they want to avoid "cheap" copies of the game flooding the worldwide market but the other way around is certainly true for gifters)

My point was there are people using the region lock system on SG to lock the game within their own country, making sure the only people who can win it are from there, which is really weird to me and is most certainly for nationalist purposes. When someone from the US gives a game only to Americans using the region lock system, it's not because they don't want Europeans not to have it for cheap since European prices are higher for example.

I'm sure there are people who do not understand how the region locks work and are freaked out they could get in trouble on SG if the key doesn't work for the winner so they get excessively cautious and figure "hey I bought it and it certainly activates in my country so I'll do that" but most people I'm talking about completely ignored questions about it on their GAs so meh, whatever, like I said, their money, their GA, their choice.

23 hours ago
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Yeah, in some cases that's probably true but I try not to question other peoples motives.

Also obviously what I said only applies when there is a significant price difference on the Steam store or from other sources.

I wish sending a virtual gift card was a more common and clearly approved way by Support way to make good on giveways because I'm pretty sure that's one of the main reasons discouraging users from more expensive regions from making high profile, public giveaways.
But on the other hand I can already see the potential for abuse.

5 hours ago
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I wish sending a virtual gift card was a more common and clearly approved way by Support way to make good on giveways

I doubt it ever will be, and I hope it never is. At one time (before my time), there were those who exploited cross-region gifting and gained level 10 by spending next to nothing (i.e. region-restricting their giveaways to Russia [correction: I'm not even sure they had to region restrict them to do so back then, so don't quote me on that bit], and trading for or purchasing RU gifts while living outside RU). Some of them are what some might call "high profile" members of this site now. You'd be surprised at some of the names. Being able to send gift cards would lead to the same abuse.

4 hours ago*
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That's why I said I can already see the potential for abuse πŸ˜‰

I probably wouldn't. I'm very well aware some of people with the most "impressive" giveaway stats (at first glance) are among the most selfish, disrespectful and egotistical people around.

There are also quite a few of them I strongly suspect of using auto-entry scripts.

4 hours ago
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Indeed. To give credit where credit is due, Mully "wised me up" real quick once we became friends.

4 hours ago
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Well, she does have that talent of calling things how they are πŸ˜…

4 hours ago
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I cannot see how SG can validate gift cards and check whether its been sent or not coupled with the fact that people can take "advantage" of this. The amount of work required by mods to check all of this between two people who disagreed over this would negate any benefits that would come from this in my opinion.

4 hours ago
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Yeah, those three reasons I listed were pretty much my thought process why "sending virtual gift cards" wouldn't really be feasible for most giveaways although it is already being used (and aproved) as a workaround when the creator has set up their giveaways incorrectly.

Not sure how in detail we should discuss this because we're just giving people ideas.

4 hours ago
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3 hours ago
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I do get your point with people using the region locks to game the system though.

How is that "gaming the system", but group giveaways aren't? It's simply another group, often with actual valid reasons.

22 hours ago
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Often with a valid reason yes, like groups. But not always.
And it's gaming the system in the sense that giving all your games away to people who were born under the same flag wasn't the intended reason for the region lock system on SG.

Again, I'm not talking about CV. It's irrelevant, including when it comes to group GAs, really.

22 hours ago
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But not always.

Like groups. See how that works?

And it's gaming the system in the sense that giving all your games away to people who were born under the same flag wasn't the intended reason for the region lock system on SG.

So you choose to give your games to a very small group of people, and they choose to give theirs to a group of people (likely much larger than your own group, in point of fact). Same thing. If they're gaming the system, so are you. Like I said, it's just another group.

Edit: Would you feel better if they made a Steam group for their region and only made giveaways for that group? Because I can tell you with 100% certainty those sorts of groups exist on SG, and their reasons are no less valid than your own.

22 hours ago*
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I absolutely get your point. I just mean everything is a matter of degrees.
There are also people saying that the level system on SG created an "elite cast" that only gives and receives from their buddies. This is mostly false (at least from my point of view, I've yet to see the members of this secret society of Level 10 cultists but then again maybe their secrecy is that brilliant ;) ) but I'm sure it can look that way to some.

You make public and group GAs. Your group GAs have mostly less than 30-40 entries so they are small groups. You also make public GAs using the level system, and you tend to give the higher quality games to groups and higher levels, which all makes sense to me.
To others, it might be an issue, who knows?

And then there are some like Pico and I are talking about making super restricted GAs to very small groups of people for whatever reason. It's different in both cases. Like I said, matter of degrees.

20 hours ago
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Well,. since you brought it up, let's dig further into my own giveaways. I'd be happy to share (and even a little beyond just my giveaways)

  • Did you know that 81.4% of my CV is public giveaways? Probably not.
  • Did you know I've been asked to join dozens of groups, and decline nearly all of them? I'm only a member of one that requires giveaways, and it requires one a month. It has 319 members. My gift difference is +$458.84. I didn't join the group to win more. I joined the group because I like the guy who runs it It's one of three groups I've ever asked to join. The other two are Playing Appreciated (no longer a member, as two jobs kept me from playing a win - I respectfully left the group, and am welcome to rejoin in the future) and Poor But Generous (to give games to people who don't have many).
  • Do you think I couldn't have 5000 wins by now if I wanted? Very easily. I simply don't care to. Yep, I could be one of "those guys", one of those group whores. Hell, I'd be damned good at it.
  • Did you know that I've only made a couple of level 10 giveaways? Only a couple of 9s? And a handful of 8s? By far, most of my giveaways are levels 0-5. And public. Lower levels is where the vast majority of my giveaways end up. That's because that's where the majority of site users are.
  • Did you know my last public giveaway was one week ago? There will be many more once I get time. The excuses for making group giveaways in this thread certainly isn't helping my motivation. I find it distasteful.
  • Do you know why I use the level system? Probably not. It's to incentivize others to make giveaways. It works. They see giveaways, it makes some people want to give away and level up. It's how this site grows. They don't even see group giveaways unless they join.
  • Yes, I save the best games for my whitelist. They're special people, and deserving of something more. Nearly all of them have done something that goes above and beyond giveaways on this site.
  • I bet you didn't know that there are a handful on my whitelist that have never given away a single game, and even more who have given far less than they've won. Does that make me a saint? Fuck, no, they're the saints. I wish I were more like most of them.
  • Did you know that I don't expect a thanks for a win? Probably not. It's not why I make giveaways.
  • Did you know you blacklist nearly everyone on this site, regardless of level, with group giveaways? Think about that. That's why I stick to public giveaways, and use my blacklist instead. Max 1000 people.
  • Did you know that I could bring up your own numbers? I'm a numbers guy, and very analytical by nature. But I won't check, don't fret. I don't care enough to bother and it has nothing to do with the conversation we were having. But I have to wonder if you bothered to check your own after you checked mine.
  • I bet you did know that I don't make excuses, because I don't have to.
  • Here's one that will blow your mind - did you know I was a "leech" for almost a year before I made a giveaway? Now look at me. Do you understand why I despise that term? It's because anyone can become a great contributor, given the right incentive. Ratio based groups don't incentivize, they force. And they're not sharing, they're trading.
  • Oh, one more. I hate being called nice or generous, because I'm neither, and I fully acknowledge it. I don't go out of my way to be "pleasant", and I give away a lot of bundled games. In a simple quote "Generosity is giving away more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." (Khalil Gibran) and I most certainly don't fit that bill in either regard.

Now here's what I do care about (and what we were actually discussing) -- I bet you also knew none of this has anything to do with you differentiating your own groups from those using region restrictions. You're here accusing particular groups or people of gaming the system, when it's no different at all from what you're doing. That "it's a matter of degrees" is a load of horse shit, and yes, I know the group giveaways I've made are under that same umbrella, but I'm not claiming anyone is "gaming the system", either. I'm simply saying they're the same.

Now here's something you should ask yourself -- you say that levels stop being important or worthwhile after level 4 or so. Then why have I kept making giveaways? Why do I now? And why are most of them still public? Is it because I want to "win, win, win!"? Is it because I want to "give back?" Is it because I want thanks? Is it because I like big numbers? Is it because I give a shit what randoms on the internet think of me?

Nah, because I don't give a fuck about any of that. It's because I damned well feel like it, and have a lot of extra games.

18 hours ago*
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I really didn't mean to offend you, Tzaar. I'm sorry if I did.

I didn't look at your GA history really, nor played the ratio game. I was just talking from general memory of the GAs I have seen you make (and the GAs I entered from you) since I've been here, to give an example of someone using all the gamut of the SG system features in a fair and rational way, as opposed to people using some of these features to lock everything down, in order to illustrate my point that there were degrees in everything.

You can check my GAs if you want, I have nothing to hide.
I make a lot of group GAs now and also WL only GAs for the reasons I cited above.
I get people on my whitelist for many reasons, not at all related to their ratio or the value of their GAs. Some of them because they are just nice people I befriended on the board, some have no idea I even exist but I liked their attitude in threads and GAs, some because they are new to SG and haven't won much but are still making GAs, some even because they give a lot of 0 value GAs that are rarely seen now in GAs because after they got given away for free, nobody could be bothered.
I do not check my CV obsessively or my ratio. I make GAs when I have keys, or when I stumble upon something I have tucked away somewhere; I make GAs to give back when I win, especially after a winning streak.

Now here's something you should ask yourself -- you say that levels stop being important or worthwhile after level 4 or so. Then why have I kept making giveaways?
Well, me too. I do not think of myself as generous. I just hate waste and games that are sitting in a drawer are wasted and I have no interest in entering the shark tank of trading so when I found SG, I was happy to share.
What I meant about CV was that gaming the system by virtually trading games in small groups and region locks, like Pico was talking about, is not a huge bonus for the people doing it so you know... whatever?

16 hours ago
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I wasn't offended, that's just how I speak.

I make a lot of group GAs now and also WL only GAs for the reasons I cited above.

You make group giveaways in a bundle trading group (at least some of them). You're trading your leftovers for someone else's. Let's call it what it is. If "thanks" and "rule-breakers" were all that mattered, you'd stick to whitelist giveaways. You want to win. Okay, fine. I don't blame you. Everyone likes to win now and then. But saying someone else is "gaming the system" by making region restricted giveaways while you're getting CV and level (i.e. additional access to giveaways), for trading is a bit much for me to swallow. I felt obligated to point out what should have been obvious. My apologies if it seemed harsh, but it is what it is, and it was intended as a wake-up call.

Something to consider. Imagine you're like me, and you make a bunch of public giveaways, all different levels, and you get a winner(s) who only makes group giveaways. Oh sure, they've made hundreds or thousands of giveaways, but all with very low entry numbers, even in the single digits. Can you imagine how I must feel, knowing they could make giveaways for others, but have chosen to restrict all of them to a handful of fellow traders? How do you think I feel when I see that person announcing on the forums how "generous" they are? Or how about when they call someone else a "leech?" (I always find that oddly ironic) Do you think I feel bad for a moment blacklisting that person, who's chosen to effectively blacklist the rest of the site (including the person from whom they've just won a game) so they can win more? Nah, I do what I feel is right. I haven't changed much since the day I joined this site. If anything, I'm just more jaded and open.

Now something funny (I find it funny, at least) - I mentioned once to someone claiming "generosity" on their part on the forum that all their giveaways were made for very small trading groups. Of course they got all asshurt, but hey were waving their level and CV in someone's face. "Generous", right? Now they make some public giveaways, just so they can say they make public giveaways, but every last one of them is level 10. Talk about "gaming the system." ;)

4 hours ago
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AFAIK, the only filter for that is the blacklist.

I'm fond of using it myself in those instances where ... you know ... those "generous" types who make only group giveaways, but feel free to spam entries in every public giveaway they can.

2 days ago
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Sadly the number of spots on the Dicklist is limited but yeah I know these types too.

But again, it's not like they gain much. CV makes little difference in the larger scheme of things after a few levels up (that are not really that hard to reach I think but then again, I never really looked so I didn't measure how fast or slow it was)

22 hours ago
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Hey Pico. I feel like I probably fall under that category, but I can only speak for myself.

I love and respect how generous you are, generous users like you are what make SG wonderful!

I don't know what your financial situation is, but I'm under a pretty tight budget. Almost all my giveaways are going to be bundled games from Humble Monthly or something similar.

I've also worked to get into some some pretty awesome groups, with really awesome and generous people, but those groups also have monthly giveaway requirements with strict requirements for what games are eligible. These required giveaways are, to be honest, kind of stressful. So, right now if I buy a Humble Monthly bundle, all the best games that I don't want myself are reserved towards meeting those group giveaway requirements so that I don't have to stress out about them in a month when I don't get the Humble Monthly. As a result, the games that are left over to make public giveaways are less good, and less frequent.

At the same time, most of my best wins have come from groups, and so I also want to give back to those groups. So if I have extra good games beyond those I need to meet my obligations for the next couple months, I want to give them to awesome groups like Playing Matters and Playing Appreciated as a "thank you" towards the awesome people there.

I've never gamed any SG system. I try to be as generous as I can be within my means. But the past 9 months have been rough, tiring, and stressful, so I've been keeping giveaways to a minimum - just what I need to stay within the groups that I worked to join, and a couple small things for the Community Train. I've gone from

If I won the lottery, I'd make all the giveaways - group, public, whitelist, everything! But that will never happen as I don't play the lottery due to it being a frivolous waste of money. :)

2 days ago
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I understand I wasn't really talking about you. The ones I was talking about are largely from region restricted areas with bad ratios that make the vast majority of their GAs group.

2 days ago
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Ah, okay. Good to know. :)

I may have been reading into things, I was already feel a little bad about not making as many giveaways, and particularly public giveaways, as I used to in previous years.

1 day ago
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+1 You hit the nail on the head.

2 days ago
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group-only doesn't bypass any reduced CV limitation... what...

P.S.: today I've learnt group-only gibs is suddenly a problem for some... But you don't even see those gibs, why do you care...

2 days ago*
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I was asking if group GAs bypassed CV restrictions. I wasn't sure if it did.

I did see the gibs when I looked at some of the users who entered my GA.

2 days ago
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I'm mostly doing group/whitelist-exclusive giveaways. I definitely try to throw the better/more interesting games I have into those while putting the lower-quality or, in my eyes, less interesting releases up for grabs outside of those groups. I do this not to game the system (the groups I'm a part of aren't exactly small and clandestine), but simply to increase the odds of the games I'm giving away ending up with someone who might eventually find a use for them. Not that non-group giveaways can't go to cool people who appreciate their wins, but I just see so many accounts that seem completely disinterested in any sense of community, courtesty, etc. and are just on here to farm thousands of things for their Steam account without any quality control or willingness to give back. I generally don't need people who win my giveaways immediately playing the thing or ever even pouring hours into them, but finding a good new home for those games makes me happy, whether it's the rare occasion where I can give away something slightly uncommon or I'm one of many to give away a bundled game.

I'm sure there are some groups of people employing nefarious, system-gaming schemes, but I like to think most people who stick to these exclusive giveaways do so to help make someone's day while remaining in good standing within a group ecosystem that also gives them better odds of winning.

2 days ago
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100% this!

2 days ago
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This is the conclusion I eventually reached after seeing so many people being entitled in so many ways and unable to thank people properly. That's how you get to gate your GA, either by making them for groups or leaking the entry level high.

1 day ago
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Same for me. I like to know people and giving away blindly to random strangers who never make GAs and win thousands of games they never played just to have a massive Steam library without every saying thanks is frustrating.

I give to a large number of groups I like but public GAs, I always tend to regret afterwards.

This being said, Pico is mostly talking about people using groups and region locks to make suspicious GAs that are more like trades with CV bonus. But like I said, CV is pretty useless when you look at it so it's not like they're winning big.

1 day ago
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This.

1 day ago
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they aren't gaming the system, it's what groups are for. unfortunately some people take groups to extremes. 🀷 they focus their giveaways in groups and barely interact with the rest of the site, while at the same time they enter public giveaways.
i might even say they are worse than a lv0 user or someone that has a terrible cv ratio because they have the possibility to give to everyone but they willingly exclude 99.99% of the userbase (people cry about blacklists, but they fail to notice a group is way more restrictive than 1000 blacklist slots per user).

it's funny when they call others "leeches" and they don't realize they are the worst kind of user sg can have. using steamgifts as a platform to run their private groups and "trade" games between ~100 people is just sad. πŸ€¦β€β™€οΈ

2 days ago*
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^^^This.

2 days ago
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Did something happen that the usual 10-20ish number became 100 now? o.O

2 days ago
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They are breeding - and fast!

View attached image.
2 days ago
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Wear, Tear, and folks who don't Care.

My last public lvl 1 went to some .ru that didn't even bother with a "Thx". I'm still quite new here, and I don't like that one bit. (The ungrateful masses) So I can only imagine how those high level users, that spent years & years around these parts feel. Probably very tired of the public zone.

But yes, it's sad, and it annoys me too at times. In the sense that, if everyone did "it" - this whole site could just as well close down, and we can circle jerk each other through Steam-groups/Chats instead. Using straw-polls and /random 30, commands.

But I don't know about any possible CV abuse regarding this. That's overkill, I think. :p

I'm a very casual user myself. On a VERY limited spending spree. Every single key that was left over from my own purchases, has gotten thrown into Steamgifts, in various ways. I tend to stay away from groups with "requirements" now though. Cause I quickly realized I was not able to keep up with the "needs". And I'm not elite enough to be part of a "round-table-spam-fest".

I can't judge anyone too hard though, cause for the last year or two, I've been like this guy:

View attached image.
2 days ago*
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I've found that, after a decent number of giveaways (the vast majority public giveaways), those sorts of people (ungrateful, rule-breakers, etc) are by far the exception rather than the rule, despite what others will scream and wave their hands about on the forum.

I'd much rather someone with a "poor ratio" (I'm using that very loosely, as I don't particularly care about ratio) win than someone who can make giveaways, but does it all in small groups. That's just kind of a big "fuck everyone" to me.

2 days ago
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That's just kind of a big "fuck everyone" to me.

Yeah, I agree. And kinda what I ment with my "But yes, it's sad" part there ^


Well... I don't like either of the subjects. They can both trip on the "Delete Account" button tbh.
Since they both lost the original meaning in the word Community. (edit: or "Gift")

My last guy hadn't given away anything in 7 years. But still takes home a win, activates right away, and says nothing. It just screws with me more, personally. I just appreciate a "thanks" at least. It's not hard. It's free. Takes 2 sec.Β΄


As per experience in numbers.. and masses.. I'll just have to trust you. Damn.. you've been busy. Good stuff :)

View attached image.
2 days ago*
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"As per experience in numbers.. and masses.. I'll just have to trust you. Damn.. you've been busy. Good stuff :)"

No you need not ! Make your own experiences.
His experiences are different to a lot of other peoples experiences, me included. [And because he don't like that he say something bad about all other people with different experiences]
Around 1/4 - 1/3 of the winners make problems (red marks at sgtools, no thanks, using autojoiners and you need to run behind them that they please please please take the free game that you give them).

And as you say... 7 years at the site, never gave something, win like hell and then haven't the basic manners to say thank you after a win.
Thats the users that puke me on/piss me off.
Each time when i make ~10 GA's i have 3-4, sometimes up to 7, with problems, and each time i regret that i were so dumb to try it again (last example my cake day thread)

1 day ago
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Stop putting words into my mouth or assuming what I do or don't like. I can speak for myself, thank you.

If you want to stick to your group giveaways and "fuck everyone else" so you can win more, that's perfectly fine, but don't include me in your little diatribe of complaints. And If we're going by number of public giveaways alone, my experience is at least (and I'm being very generous with that phrase) as valid as your own.

For reference (since you decided to call "bullshit"): Your public CV - $169. Mine - $4,491

1 day ago*
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Tzaar with the normal bullshit talk...

[I AM OUT]

1 day ago
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Or perhaps I simply have better things to do than see the negative in everyone around me, particularly when it comes to some 10 cent bundled game leftovers that are going to sit and rot if I don't give them to someone.

You should try it sometime. Might help with some of those "health issues." ;)

1 day ago
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Each one has their own views and perhaps even expectations what they desire for the winner. Mine is that I wish that the winner at least tries the game which was won. Way too many public giveaways end up as +1 in their library never to be touched. Personally I would prefer using public as the main platform, but alas, feel that it simply isn't working for me. So now it is semi-public group giveaways.

2 days ago
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In general, however, people join groups to win more (or at least to have better chances at winning), which amounts to them trading their games for someone else's, and essentially blacklisting everyone outside of that small group. We see it all the time: "I want to win more!" "Join small groups!"

So, while I appreciate your reason, it's the exception rather than the rule. To be fair, I have no issue with groups that require someone to play their wins, because that's the idea behind games. Those trading groups, though ...

2 days ago
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I agree with you. Any group which focuses on group enforced ratios and/or required giveaways, becomes essentially a gambling trade system where you put game(s) in and get game(s) out. Rules enforce that you need to keep paying and more or less ensure that you win if you keep being in the system. I partially understand the reasoning why people make those kind of systems but personally haven't been interested in them. Why gamble when you could simply buy the games you want?

That being said, I would state that your trading argument only applies to those kind of groups (which are likely the most numerous ones). There are luckily still plenty of other kind of groups which do not fall into the same category. Usually they have some solid theme/reason and I see them as extensions of the community. They likely exclude people by having some requirements but that also gives them a niche flavor. Without group system, it would be e.g. harder to make giveaways for people who have won nothing (or only few games).Or to people who at least state that they wish to play their wins.

2 days ago
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Why gamble when you could simply buy the games you want?

That's easy to explain - most of the members win more than they give from the few who give more. I was in one of those "bundle trading" groups for a short time, and ended up giving away more than 15x what I'd won (likely because I buy a lot of bundles) while still making 80+% public giveaways. Those groups take advantage of a few to line their own pockets with games. Most of the members come out ahead, thanks to lax requirements set up for that scenario. On top of that, they still enter every public giveaway they can, while making none themselves.

As an aside, I got kicked from the group by a mod (who's ironically won more than twice what he's given) because I'd blacklisted him for his behavior on this forum, and honestly, I couldn't be happier. Oddly enough, I've found much better people in public giveaways than in that sort of group. :)

2 days ago
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Really. Are we seriously going to make reduced CV based on regions now? You do know the reason those games are cheaper on that person's region is because of their purchasing power right? Your $60 game may be only 5% of your monthly salary but that is most certainly 30% of mine.

People cry at publishers for regional pricing because if you don't have that, they literally could not afford it without breaking the bank. If you really want to make SG into a place where people are only equals if they live in first world countries, then I truly feel sad for you.

2 days ago
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I have no problem with regional pricing. But why should you get more CV than you paid for?

2 days ago
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You don't understand it do you? Or you do and your claim you have no problem with regional pricing is hypocrisy since you certainly do have a problem with it. The CV in this site is based off on US because it is the major country and everyone is familiar with it. You won't make it fair if those of poorer countries won't receive the US equivalent of CV for spending money that is US equivalent for their country. Because as I said, purchasing power for them is poorer than it is for US. So for a poorer country, they have to spend at least twice the purchasing power they could afford to be equal to those on the US. To get to lvl10 on the US, you need to spend $5000. Which you can get if you work for a month. If you apply reduced value for lower income regions, to get that same $5000, they have to work for 5 months. Random example because I can't be bothered to do actual minimum wage comparisons and you should get the idea.

If you still insist on getting reduced CV due to that, then you do truly want SG to be a place for first world countries only.

2 days ago
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If you still insist on getting reduced CV due to that, then you do truly want SG to be a place for first world countries only.

Serale can't be part of SG => Serale needs to kick themselevs out from the discord group, due to not being part of SG => One less mod as an obstacle to play Last Christmas for the whole year :spacecat:

I just need to find how to deal with Nariel, any idea? :thinking:

2 days ago
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:aaaaa:

Also why should I help ebil dragons that want to play Last Christmas all year long? :thinking:

2 days ago
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I agree with you. On the other hand, public giveaways are almost nonexistent now. If I filter out the games I already own, I only see 1 or 2 pages of giveaways between level 2 and level 7.

2 days ago
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Well my dude... you own 7500 games :) And I'm guessing many more hidden.
There's plenty of public ones still. If you don't already own them all :p

Was this a bragging post? Eh Ey? ;) Ahh.. cmon, I'm only fooling around, but found your remark VERY funny :)

2 days ago
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Actually not much changed, there have been some minor shifts back and forth for several years now.

View attached image.
2 days ago
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When I make public giveaways, I sometimes wonder if it's just a lot of bots joining in-- when they win, the only interaction I receive is literally the "Received key" confirmation. Sometimes, I have extra DLC for a game and I'd mention I'd throw it in for the giveaway winner if I can just contact them, but I've gotten no reactions or acceptances to something like that.

I still alternate public/private giveaways sometimes, but I honestly feel a bit better giving away to a group that encourages game play or something. It's nice to see an attempt at some of the games you give away (especially the ones you've enjoyed yourself).

On another note, I think some people give away to groups exclusively due to group rules (i.e. win/give group ratios), and it would make sense to save your giveaways for that group instead. Looking back at my profile, it seems like this was the case for me too. When I was in a group with rules, all of my giveaways were for that group.

2 days ago
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The main reason for people to decide to make group-only GAs is because people can't bother to say a simple "thanks" after winning their games and a bunch of the joiners are scripters/bots. On my two last public giveaways, out of 9 copies of games, I had only 3 thanks. That only makes me even more unmotivated to keep doing public GAs.

Last paragraph of Spammathon's message also gives another reason.

And there lots of groups who incentive or make it a rule to play the games you win, which is also pretty nice.

2 days ago
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I doubt that's the main reason. I think the main reason is people have a higher chance of winning games in group GAs due to lower number of entries.

1 day ago
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I need to support escruidin.
For me is the higher win chance not from interest when i give to groups.
I feel forced to give mostly to groups because my BL is at 1k (so many black sheeps that i would need at least 3k spaces) and i get forced to set the GA level higher and higher at public GA's. Right now to level 5.
Did that feel great or good ? No. And it close a lot of users out that are maybe really nice people.
On top are the work, hassle and frustration high with the winners that have then 400+ wins and given 0 - 20 games and/or have red marks at sgtools and/or don't know a thanks. That you are forced to run behind the winners that clearly use autojoiners, that they please please please take their wins, isn't funny on top. I report each one of them and i know that the ticket get, maybe, solved in 1 year+ (or never). All in all is it very frustrating and far from funny or motivating.

And in groups i have
a) A much lower ammount of bad apples.
b) If someone break the rules i have a owner, admin and mods that can do something (not as sg public Ga's where reports can take 1 year till it is handled)
c) Members that break the rules repeating get a kick

So it is in the end much lesser stress with the winners, much more thanks as use of basic manners and a all in all a better and more motivating experience.

So in the end, if cg clear out a big part of the bad apples that leech this site to death then i am very happy to give again a lot of my GA's to public GA's. Same if the support aren't 1 year+ behind the member report tickets and a form of protection is available [Don't get me wrong, they help for free and none can demand all the time free work but there are much too low numbers of active staff members].
Sadly i don't see one of it happen in the near future.

1 day ago*
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With regards to group giveaways, if there are less than 5 entries on a group giveaway you get zero cv whereas you get full cv on a public giveaway. Others above me have already said the things i would say and if this issue really winds you up the wrong way, then blacklist them when you find them. There is never going to be a perfect system as with regional pricing, people will find ways of circumventing the rules but regional pricing is there to keep things on a relatively level playing field for the vast majority.

2 days ago
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Regional prices do count though. If in some sale game drops below %95 of full US price they get into bundle list regardless of region. At least it was used like that So your suggestion still applies. If it is not below ~%90 it is considered full CV it is in the system.

Or do you suggest people should get cv for how much they pay?

2 days ago
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Just my personal experience, as my GAs seem to fit some of what you pointed out.

One of my favorite groups control ratio and game requirement, so we don't blindly enter GAs because it's hard to make up to it sometimes - I like it because it's not just one side taking but it comes with the issues where a GA may not even have 5 entries and doesn't count for CV, but CV isn't very important to me because it's not a goal of mine to reach high level.

The other group I quite like has no ratio requirement but has a very low member count, we only need to make 2 GAs every month of a certain game rating and if it doesn't reach 5 entries, remake it - this group is infinitely laxer but due to the very low member count, despite having no ratio, entries generally average around 10 that I have observed.

I no longer like public groups because people don't say thank you, the last time I offered an unbundled game in my own wishlist, I added the winner to steam, sent the gift to them - they accepted the add, the game and removed me without ever saying anything.

I prefer my games to be played within a reasonable amount of time and that the winner be someone who contributes to SG, none of this is guaranteed and in fact, oftentimes I end up with a winner fulfilling all the checkmarks of what I don't want - 0-10 sent games vs 300 won, not saying thank you etc etc

2 days ago
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That's so rude from that person to not even thank you.
Allow me to thank you for your generosity and trying to make people happy by giving them something they can have fun with, that's really nice of you and your deserve respect and recognition for it.

1 day ago
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Thank you for your kind words, the only other occasion I mentioned this was a similar thread discussing between group/public GAs and I do struggle between the two. I can understand the pov for people who favor public GAs but I just haven't found reasons of my own at present given my personal ideals of where/how I want my gift to go :)

And yeah, for games to go to people who will play them is quite important for me, so I tend to lean for groups like Playing Appreciated and such.

1 day ago
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Wooow incredible. I feel sorry for you. It is so so rude I can even imagine your frustration. 😱😩

1 day ago
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Hey, this is a familiar name ;) Thanks for the reinforcement, I did sometimes wonder if the rudeness was part of public SG life xD

1 day ago
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I know you're talking about "giveaway trading" groups, which the groups I've decided to trust aren't, but... I dunno, for some reason I feel like I have to say something? Yeah, I don't know where I'm going with this.

How about this: I wanna share the games that I really liked (or am absolutely sure I would like in DOOOOOOOOM's case) with people (and occasionally other "games that look fun/people seem to like a lot" if I'm out of keys for the ones that I can vouch for personally). So... yeah... that's why I've always restricted my giveaways a lot (through puzzles and then groups when the inspiration dried up)- it really hurts when the game just gets farmed for cards and forgotten, so the paranoia is in full swing.
(Yes, I did copy-paste this from my answer to the question "Why do I make giveaways?". Been standing here for over an hour already and couldn't really think of a better way to say it.)

So, if this is unacceptable behavior for you and it will make you feel better, feel free to blacklist me or whatever.
(Ok, ok, I think I get what's going on- I'm angry... for some reason. So, yeah, sorry about the passive aggressiveness. I should have just stayed quiet like always... Ugh, I so wish the whole ""CV"" system would just get removed, but I know that is practically impossible at this point. Y'know, if you just stopped caring about ""CV"", maybe region stuff and what people do in their groups wouldn't bother you so much.)

2 days ago*
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I understand your point of view. But if I only made group GAs I probably wouldn't enter public GAs at all because if I kept winning public GAs but never offered anything back to the public eventually I would start feeling like a leech. I see a lot of people who do this though. But I get why you only want to offer games to people who play them. That's a perfectly valid reason and something I'm guilty of not doing.

Edit: after looking more closely at your account I think I might have to change my mind sorry. But if you start doing more pub GAs things can change.

1 day ago*
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Oh, I've just noticed that apparently I entered your GA. Fixed. Could you please just blacklist me so that I wouldn't enter you GAs in the future by accident since my high level feels unfair to you? You don't fit my blacklisting criteria, and having to remind myself not to enter a particular user's GAs is too much bother, so you blacklisting me seems to be the only logical choice.

2 days ago*
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Thanks for putting a smile on my face, it was truly needed, welcome to myπŸ’™

1 day ago
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In that case, here is something else that will hopefully make you smile:

View attached image.
1 day ago
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This is beyond adorable! <3

1 day ago
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Meoow 😺😺

1 day ago
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I don't have a problem with your level or you entering my GA. If I did I would have blacklisted you already. My issue is with people whose majority of GAs are group/private only and always have very few entries and whose group/priv CV is like 80-100% of their entire CV. Most of your GAs are public and you have decent private GAs that are open to more than just 10 people. I understand you're saving your best GAs for group only. That's fine. It'd be nice if more of them were public but as long as you're not being completely selfish then it's ok.

I hope you can see why I have a problem with those type of users. Imagine if everyone on SG only made group GAs for a few of their friends. It wouldn't be much of a site would it?

1 day ago*
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There's nothing selfish about making only private/group giveaways. At the end of the day you're still giving something away that you paid or traded for. Whether there are 5 entries or 5,000, you're giving something away to, for the most part, complete strangers.

Also probably 95% of the giveaways I've won on here have been through private or group or whitelist giveaways so why doesn't it make sense to give back to the people whom I win from the most?

1 day ago
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There's nothing wrong with only making group or private giveaways IF you then only enter group or private giveaways. But if you also enter lots of public giveaways and win lots of public giveaways and rarely give back or give trash back then isn't that being a bit selfish? You can enter all the public giveaways you want but the people making those giveaways can't enter your giveaways. Is that fair?

A quick glance at your profile shows almost 25% of your wins have been from public giveaways. So by your comment it would make sense to give back at least 25% in the form of public giveaways right? Have you? (I don't know if you have or not I'm just going by your argument). I think most of the people who almost exclusively do group-only giveaways don't think twice about entering any public giveaways they want or don't care about making an equal number of sent/won public giveaways.

1 day ago*
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The easiest solution is to not worry about it. It's not worth it.

(That applies on SG, and also everywhere else).

2 days ago
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+1, very appropriate comment

1 day ago
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As usualπŸ‘ŒπŸ‘ŒπŸ‘Œ πŸ’™πŸ’™πŸ’™

1 day ago
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You're right. It's just added stress I don't need. But if we don't punish leechers they will continue to leech.

11 hours ago
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In most cases, this is normal.
Many forums and other sites have small communities where there are several friends who share games with each other (I know several of them and even participated long ago). Often for convenience they make groups for this.
In addition, there are many groups intended for a kind of exchange among users (there is a very complex system, for example, there are requirements to giveaways at least one game of a certain price per month). There are a lot of such groups, you can read announcements about recruiting in them even on the forum.
As for regional restrictions - CV is always the same, wherever the game is purchased.

1 day ago
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I feel like they're gaming the system somehow. If someone from a country that routinely has region locks, like in CIS, makes a region-restricted GA for an unbundled game do they still get full CV? I'm wondering if they're acquiring games cheaply from their region and then making group-only GAs to bypass any reduced CV limitation.

I guess my question is, what would be the point of bothering with this? Yes, higher CV earns you a higher level, but what good do levels really do you? Yes, you can enter a larger pool of GAs. But have you looked at the higher level GAs? They are still mostly the same bundle leftovers that everyone posts. Going through the extra hassle to "game" the CV system in the way you are suggesting in order to enter more public giveaways doesn't seem worth the payoff. If the goal is to siphon up as many games as possible for the profile +1 or to farm cards, then it is FAR simpler to just set up a bot and harvest the low level GAs (which is the #1 reason many people only do higher-level or WL/group-only GAs - there is a much higher chance of the winner being an actual human).

1 day ago
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Nice thread and cool story.
First of all, thank you for giving me two jokes. One is text - "I noticed... says rhino". People who liked and learned biology, know what i mean.
Second is this brilliant screenshot which i want to leave it here https://i.imgur.com/wWNovXy.jpg It can be new meme pic.
P.S. One of rarest cases when an avatar 100% fits a person. Don Quixote looked more confident while he fought the windmills.
Good luck in your hard battle with ''bad'' users who "gaming the system".
Have a nice day, Pico.

1 day ago
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I'm sorry but you're a good example of what I'm talking about. You're an amazing contributor to your group. Not so much for everyone else.

Oh and it's not a rhino it's a styracosaurus.

1 day ago
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Despite the fact that each of them belongs to different class (modern mammal and extinct reptile), they were morphologically very similar (hulking herbivore with poor eyesight) and occupied similar ecological niches. But you're right anyway. Thanks for correction.

1 day ago
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reaching highest CV levels with mostly group giveaways or cheap region restriction giveaways only and than leeching public CV level restricted giveaways. o.O
just use SGtools for that purpose if you care

1 day ago
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Unless Steamgits starts requiring users submit their taxes you'll never get a completely fair system.

1 day ago
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"Steamgits"

This typo made me laugh loudly. Hahaha!
Some do behave like gits around here. XD.

1 day ago*
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