I think it is a good thing, you can try the game and see if its really worth buying. Also games that have a shit-ton quantity of dlcs, I pirate it and buy it when a GOTY/Complete Edition comes out.
Anyways, its legal on my country.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yep, completely legal. As long as its for personal use, its fine. (as in, you cannot sell pirated copies,but having one of your own use is 100% fine)
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy for movies: Not too bad, films get too much money for what they're worth.
Piracy for games: Maybe to try the game, but most of the time a bad thing. Support the developers :)
Piracy for OS: BAAAD, Microsoft do get a hell of a lot, but OS's should still be paid for imo
Comment has been collapsed.
Movies don't get "too much money", they get just what people are ready to pay for them. They're actually a great example of capitalism.
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy isn't stealing... it's counterfeiting. Stealing removes the original. Counterfeiting makes copies. Still bad? Well, that's up for you to decide, but it definitely isn't stealing.
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy certainly isn't something you should be happy about, but these types of threads have been popping up quite a bit for some reason o_o...
I'll say it's justifiable to some extent. But I will say some of my friends give me conversations like this:
Me: "Hey dude, Torchlight II came out"
Him: "Sweet, I'll go get it"
Me: "You wanna split a four pack then?"
Him: "No... wtf, I can just torrent the game"
Me: "Dude, that's kinda jacked up, it's an indie game you know."
Him: "Well I'm not rich like you"
Me: "Will you buy it later then -_-?"
Him: "Nope"
He doesn't even have a Steam account... so yeah.
Comment has been collapsed.
IMO, Torchlight 2 is not an indie title. It was when it came out but now Runic Games is almost as known as any other game company.
Comment has been collapsed.
Still, they say that to every game, I can give you a list of different games they've said it with (though some of these aren't indie titles):
The list is really long... I'm not calling out my friends for pirating. But I'm saying that they're pirating WAY too many games and they don't even bother buying them.
Comment has been collapsed.
who cares? I pirate, all my friends pirate :P and why we should buy them? games waste my time and time is money, think... true I bought some Humble and Indie Gala but just because it seemed so cheap after looking at prices on steam :D I played pirated Super Meat Boy and then when I saw it on Humble I bought it (if it were just few $ more I wouldn't) but I haven't replayed it yet... Usually I don't buy games at all, because they're not worth my time nor money. If no one would make games would I be sad? NO! But that would never happen, there are free games same as free other software ;) I think publishers does not deserved so much money. They're getting big sales mostly because of lot of advertisements and so on. There are so many games that it's not possible to try them all and some good games might not get popular so no one knows them and those wont get bought...
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm a software developer, so be warned this is pretty anti-piracy :p
Generally people pirating stuff is a stupid idea (imho), it takes the money away from the creators. I can understand why it might appeal but frankly, if you can't afford to play somthing either work harder so you can afford it or just don't play it. Some software I can understand, things which are priced at a rediculus level despite lots of their users not being profesionals in the feild ( Photoshop, 3DS Max ect.) But in most cases it's pure greed that motivates piracy.
You don't go into a shop and take a bite of somthing to see wether you want to buy it do you?
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree. I personally don't like the idea that someone worked on something creative, only to have it plagarized, copied, or otherwise taken in ways that it hurts the income of the creator. A lot of time, work and love often goes into producing something. So to have it treated casually and not reap the rewards of your hard work, must be sour.
Comment has been collapsed.
It depends on the content whether piracy can be seen as good thing or a bad thing. For example artists, especially those not well-known, benefit greatly from piracy as they gain more listeners, which in turn means more people on gigs, buying merchandise etc., meaning more money for the artist. There are also several studies, which show that pirates are buying more music and going to gigs and movies more often than non-pirates.
All the "piracy is bad" arguments that come from RIAA, MPAA and the lot, are only for protecting the old business models of record labels and movie studios. Especially the business model of record labels as they're obsolete nowadays thanks to the internet. The commonly used "one illegal download = lost sale" argument has no basis as there is no way to prove that the person was going to buy it in the first place.
That shop analogy is pretty funny because it's not accurate at all. Piracy is not stealing, it's copyright infringement, which is entirely different thing. That shop analogy in a "fixed" format would be going to a shop, creating a copy of something and then eating it.
Comment has been collapsed.
The "Artists benifit from piracy" is very debatable, the artist themselves my benifit, but everyone doing work on their behalf (aka the team at the record company who run all their advertising and the like) loses out. What people don't understand is that what you're buying isn't a "copy" of the games files, it's the right to play the game.
And yes, that analogy was a bit off (I did notice but couldn't be bothered to think of another at the time) here's a more accurate one:
It's like somone spending thousands of £/$/€ to build an a theme park and offering people a relitivly low one off price for lifetime entry, then some people sneaking into the park without paying...
Better?
Comment has been collapsed.
Since you are a software developer, what bothers me most when i buy games, is that usually some sort of DRM screws something up within the game... or my OS, or my whatever.
Why do i get crappy halfassed products for a full price? See,
i don't support piracy in particular, but i can certainly understand, since drm causes, a lot of problems, that cracking groups simply deliver a better experience.
i personally wait until there is some sort of GOTY or whatever goes for a complete pack even though i can
afford the full game.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know the feeling, but good DRM is actually a good thing (e.g. Steam's DRM, you don't even see it and it never fucks up your gameplay) The issue is, lots of companies have gone way over the top and made games completely unplayable (coughUbisoftcough) by trying to make their game "unpiratable" (which is impossible and rather gullible of them)
I also dislike the "We'll sell them the base game then launch 100 DLC packs which tripple the price of the game" way of doing things (e.g. Saints Row 3, Magicka ect ect) I don't mind DLC, but a game should be a full game, any additions should be big additions to gameplay (Like the GTA IV expansions), not just an extra vehicle or a costume.
But there's not much I can do about either of those, nothing I've ever made has included restrictive DRM, but it seems to be the way the industry is going. Hopefully people will start following Steam's example, to quote Yahtzee: "It's funny how innovation these days basically means catching up to Valve."
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, basically that is why i like steam.
But the moment it goes out of business, i am gonna be happy, that i stored all the cracks for the games there.
Right now it seems very unlikely that Valve will ever shut down anything, but looking at the decline of the major publishers, i wouldn't bet on it stays like this forever.
I agree that good DRM is a good thing, but on the other hand, the success of GOG.com as well as Sins of a Solar Empire, clearly states, that people are absolutely willing to pay reasonable prices for quality products without DRM, which is an even better thing than having steam.
Steamworks went quite a bit downhill in my book when they allowed other publishers, to use their own, in many wears more rigid, and painful DRM methods in addition to steamworks.
Anyway, from my experience, Pirating stuff rarely harmed me, or my experience more than some halfassed DRM,
in a lot of cases i bought a game just to find it unplayable, so i went, and got a crack for it.
That can't be what developers want. It's definitely not what i want, and i really wish Publishers would listen for once, and return to making Products for Customers, not for investors.
I know, no developer is to blame in the end, i am pretty sure those decisions are made somewhere where no productive team member can even look at. But if you have any say in that process, i just would like to encourage you to think about skipping any online stupidities for a simple cd check, key thing, hell i'd be happy with a codewheel or looking up pages in the manual.
I already missed out on some great games, and a few very useful pieces of software.
If people don't want my money, i won't use their software. It's not like there are no alternatives :)
What i want to say is. I don't pirate. But i know that my wallet what people want. So i vote with that.
Comment has been collapsed.
How does that make me an asshole? Games arn't essesial to life, they're a luxury product. If you honestly can't afford to pay £20 (or whatever the equivelent is) for a game then you probably shouldn't using your time to play games in the first place. They might seem expensive compared to 10 years ago, but in reality they're still pretty cheap for the ammount of work put into them. They cost less than a damn train ticket for crying out loud...
Comment has been collapsed.
Mainly the "work harder" part. There are plenty of people that work and still cannot afford things.
And why shouldn't someone who's poor get any entertainment? Do you disagree with libraries too because they are a luxury product and if you can't afford the $10 for a book then you probably shouldn't be using your time to read in the first place?
I am thinking specifically of fiction novels for books, not something educational like a book on science.
Comment has been collapsed.
You have to pay for librarys where you live?? That's genuinly saddening.
Anyway, my point is, I don't go out to restruants every night to eat beacuse I can't afford to, that doesn't mean I go and steal their food... I can live fine without doing that.
There are near infinate ways you can find entertainment without paying for it (or stealing it) So trying to get around it is pretty much just greedy...
As for the "work harder" thing, I appreiciate that some people just can't afford it, but then they can find other ways to entertain themselves OR if possible, they can get a better job/promotion and get enough to afford it. If somone can't afford a house, or a car would you say it's ok for them to just take one?
Comment has been collapsed.
A lot of games are actually overpriced especially in some countries with lower purchasing power. Some of them are priced even higher than the standard price. If you want to see less piracy in these countries, you have to be reasonable with your price. Steam approach to Russia market is a good example how it should be done but it need to be expanded to some more countries.
Comment has been collapsed.
Generally, I'm a no tolerance kind of guy. If you want to try a game out, then download an actual demo. If it doesn't have a demo, then too bad. Still, this is not horrible for "demo" purposes, but i think this kind of action with piracy is in the extreme minority.
If its a shitty game, your still stealing it, because you still played it.
IMO, people who pirate have very little appreciation for games. It literally has no value for them. You steal so many games, its so easy to write them off as "Shitty". Apply actual monetary value and personal investment into games, and I suspect even "Shitty Games" will have higher worth to you. You'll enjoy them more.
Comment has been collapsed.
meh, there are tons of arguments to support either side.
Honestly, do what you want. Just remember the dev's out there that worked their asses off to make these games. :/
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy on older games is acceptable since they could be qualified as abandonware (ie: games the producers do not support or distribute any kind of way anymore).
Piracy on games without demo is just an insurance and is mostly the cause of the "problem". The fact is the publishers and developpers can't see further than the total download. If they'd release a demo the game would be far less pirated.
Another reason is that the most of the publishers and developpers do not correctly set their prices, the offer is too high for the demand and either way, if you can't make someone buy your product, a pirated product is NOT a lost sale. Buying a game is mostly making a donation for the hard working game companies. What the modern gamers want are cheap games you can pick and try without fearing the consequences of a misplaced purchase, the gamer who buy on sale will buy far more games than the gamer who pay it full price, yet this accumulation of "tryout" games basket can rapidly grow at the very same result as if the offer is too high since the people who wouldn't have bought the game, bought it at reduced price. The beauty of digital copies is that there is no "original", only copies. You can set the offer much lower and get remotedly the same result.
Comment has been collapsed.
I used to download games in a regular basis, mainly due to the fact that i couldn't afford them (i couldn't afford anything, actually, everything was borrowed), now that i have a stable job and an income, i can spend that money where i want, if i don't buy a game, i just don't download it, as i have no rush in getting it (and if i were, then i would've preordered it already).
Some people might do it for the purposes of testing it, i for once read forums before anything.
Some people might do it because they don't have the money, if they are young and with no jobs, well that might be understandable, though you're still not giving money to the developers, affecting them in the long run.
Some people do it for the sole purpose of greed, and in that case i say to them: Fuck off :D, have some appreciation.
Possible solution? fix your games, publish more demos, instead of more betas.
Comment has been collapsed.
First, Anit-piracy ad
Like one the above posts said, put yourself in the shoes of the developer, would you want someone to to that to your product?
Comment has been collapsed.
To be honest,I would love people to pirate my games..Very honest...Higher the piracy levels,happier I would be because that means people like my product and if its really good they might consider buying it later... blaming piracy for you not getting enough money...its bullshit..
Comment has been collapsed.
At the same time, a higher number of pirated versions instead of a bought version will affect your income in the long run, if you're only planning on making ONE game, and not expect any form of revenue, or don't care if your employees don't get paid, then yeah, go ahead.
That's a risky move, i've seen it go well for some games and producing great results in the end, but at the same time if the game does not appeal the public, then you're kinda screwed, and spent a shit ton of money for something that didn't pay you back.
Comment has been collapsed.
"At the same time, a higher number of pirated versions instead of a bought version will affect your income in the long run, "
At least wash those numbers off after pulling them out of your ass.
The truth is no one knows if piracy affects income. Sure there are people who would have bought a game if piracy was not an option, but there are also people who wouldn't have bought if piracy weren't an option. As for which one outweighs the other, who knows. Even if the former has more individuals than the latter, the latter group could still be more valuable if they pay more for their games on average (1000 people buying for $5 vs 100 people buying for $20).
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy on bussines-ruining scale rarely happens though, Specially when it comes to published games.
The biggest threat it to Indie Devs, But they also didnt relatively spend THAT much money into making the game, And their game doesnt cost as much as an AAA title. (Indie games are almost always ~$20)
The cheap price of the game makes it more likely to be bought legit. And the relatively small investment makes it less of a disaster if someone pirates the game.
The system kind of balances itself out, Specially with the people that buy it after pirating anyways. Ofcourse its a possibility that your game gets pummeled by piracy, But VERY VERY unlikely. And practically impossible for published games.
Comment has been collapsed.
Stop talking out off your ass. Saying that piracy can't ruin a developer is just as absurd as mentioning that every pirated game equals a lost sale. Despite the amount of extremists (pro-piracy, anti-piracy) on both sides of the debate trying to convince people to their "side", it's impossible to accurately gauge how piracy affects sales simply due to the nature of how pirated games are distributed.
It's not like anyone can track how long pirates play their pirated games for or if they actually go onward to buy those said games. Speaking of this, I should mention that no amount of shitty surveys will give us an idea of how piracy truly impacts games because the extremists of this debate will mess up the results.
We can only -assume- how piracy affects the industry, but spreading bullshit like what you've said above simply hurts the integrity of the debate and justifies DRM in the eyes of developers.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's not in people's nature to pirate now and buy later. The people I know pirated games didn't buy later, becasue they didn't need to. They either "owned" it or finished it. I've never personally known anyone to buy later, so those that do that would be contrary to my experience.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have over 500 original games for different platforms(physical copies) and around 300 digital pc ones.
I would never bought even half of them if I didnt have piracy. Same for music and movies.
Comment has been collapsed.
I have a few friends that pirate games and just play them until the games go on discount(ie 75% upwards) then they buy them and attempt justifying that they're morally right pirating all their games in the first place. The thing that shits me about this is that they're all fairly rich (We live in Australia) and they easily have the capability to pay for the games at full price.
I'm not sure what's worse; the people that pirate games and know that it's morally wrong, or the people that attempt justifying it to themselves by doing something like what I've described above...
Comment has been collapsed.
You know what is truly funny? The makers of the original advertisement did not payed the guy who produced the ad music.
Comment has been collapsed.
Piracy is stealing. no matter what you say, its stealing!
Its a lame exuse that you have to try the game before you buy it! there is often a demo/open beta in games! Imagine you to your local store and steal a bottle of milk.. then if you get caught try saying (its not stealing, I was just sampling the milk and I would totaly buy it another time or maybe next week) not going to happen, just because its data does not mean its not stealing..
That being said, some devs are bringing this on themselves making stupid/crazy drm that fucks over the buying customer while not being a problem for the pirate.. but my opinion is still.. Piracy is stealing.
Comment has been collapsed.
Another one...Another explanations...Its called COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT...Assuming that you know how to read..you should read the differences between STEAL and COPYRIGHT INFRIGEMENT...Piracy is not stealing and will never be,just read the dfferences..
EDIT:Theft-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theft
Copyright infrigement-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_infringement
And in future,keep your mouth shut if you dont know...
Comment has been collapsed.
Fyzzaraya just because you think its ok to steal (we can use 10 other terms if you want *****d)
You think you are high above the rest and that taking stuff from others is ok.
We can put it this way if you want. Piracy is a Criminal Act.. you want me to show you that ?? you want me to show you some of the cases and how big the fines was ? some even got jail time.. this is a crime! like it or not.
So let me guess. Its ok to pirate a game but you still think its very very bad to steal the exact game inside your local game store... really you are a funny flamer.. its not my problem that you get offended about me telling you that "pirates" are no better than theifs, did I hurt your feelings because you don't want to be labelled theif ?
Hi Nosef yes :D don't worry I don't want to argue after this because people will do all to make piracy seem legit, I stopped trying to convince people that, but one thing is certain, I will always refuse to send games to a winner of my giveaways if they said outright that they think piracy is ok.
PS. now that you wanna act like a smartass Fyzzaraya, then I can tell you that Wiki is not a acceptable knowledge base and can't be used to show any form of knowledge in terms of professional terms.. see I can go to the extreme too...
I really wonder why piracy supportors are on Steamgifts, why try to win legit games if you just wanna "yes I used the word again to make you cry STEAL" games.
Comment has been collapsed.
First of all,trying to argue that piracy is not stealing makes me a pirate...nice thinking...Second...Stealing means unlawfully depriving someone of his proprety...well..while pirating who are you depriving of?The good is still there...
Piracy is not legit and I have never told this,please point me where I say piracy is legit....
Again...Im not a piracy supporter but I dont like when someone is mistaking piracy with stealing...
Piracy has became more punished than murders,rapes,drug dealing etc....Let the murderers and drug dealers out of prison,get the dirty bad pirates in..hah..
Comment has been collapsed.
Actually, it would be copyright infringement if you started distributing it and making money off it. Howbout you don't rage at someone like a complete dick if they were correct? Actually, even if they were wrong, calm the fuck down. bitchpls xoxo
Comment has been collapsed.
Gennedy he is most likely taking offense to the thief imagine because he is a supporter of piracy (maybe even one himself) people don't like to be called criminals for stuff they think are legit.
Besides, there are alot of terms and in all reality we could state that none of them are true (they are all human made) but I don't want to make this into a philosophical discussion, I do that enough at the university
Comment has been collapsed.
Nosef
Sure some games don't have either, but thats still no exuse to pirate it, then you meassure your "is it worth the risk to buy" meter.. its the same as when you are in the store and you look at a juicy steak.. you dont't know if this will be a treat or a disaster. if its very expensive and you never had it before, you might skip.. "you don't steal it!!!!" if its on sale you might take the chance..
Thats how the world works, you can't have all and sometimes you will get disappointed.
You should also remember that games have the same price as 10 years ago (actually some are cheaper)
Comment has been collapsed.
Youre making a wrong parable there... The whole "Steal milk and buy it after you get caught" means "Pirate a game, FBI shows up in your house and then you buy the game"
Pirating a game to try it and then buy it without anyone knowing you ever pirated it is like going to the mall, Getting a bag of chips and start eating from it. Then go to the cashier and pay for it. Nobody told you "YOURE STEALING!".
Now, NOT buying the game coz you didnt like it though would need another parable, Since chips is something you eat and cant return.
Comment has been collapsed.
LiNcKz
I am not talking about pirating as its some severe crime, but a crime it is and I've seen the police raid and charge a pirate once :) he got fined around 60k Euro.. so well.. so much for having 3 games and 1 movie.
The thing is alot of people are not buying the stuff, they just pirate and then never buy! you can't open the chips in a store and then throw them before going out refusing to pay.. the reason I made the real life analogy is because alot of others use that as a premise for facts (its not I agree fully) but people can't grasp that no matter what pirating is a criminal act, no matter the reason.. is it a serious crime, nah.. but still a crime
Comment has been collapsed.
"there is often a demo/open beta in games!" If only that was true.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's simply not. Most games lately don't have a demo, and betas are not available to everyone who wants to try the game in most cases. You can see for yourself. Out of the 10 last released games on steam only one has a demo, and none had open betas. Furthermore I don't care if it's a valid reason or not, that won't stop me from pirating games to try them out.
Comment has been collapsed.
Stupid DRM, fucking over customers by removing actual game content and releasing it a week after game release as DLC and a lot more...
Did i mention there used to be a time where games didn't cost $60 and developers actually cared about releasing a FINAL product.
Nowadays you can pre-order this and fund that before the damn product is even out, all for the fucking sake of some pseudo bonus which is INITIAL GAME CONTENT.
Comment has been collapsed.
Then again, you still have alot of Devs that release DRM free games and even light DRM.. so its not all who are ruiing the paying customers experience-
If I got fucked over by stupid drm I normaly just never buys from that Dev again and if its a good dev with a super community I tend to buy extra stuff (try out games I normaly would not) Paradox is a good example of this. I don't even have to use any drm at all (not even stuff if you choose not to, GG copies are drm free)
So well.. my point is.. Don't resort to pirating, just stop buying their games if you dislike their ways and if you like a dev support them all you can
Comment has been collapsed.
Games were cheaper because... wait for it.... items were cheaper due to the level of costs back then.. as the years go by and the inflation rises and the need for deeper protections, costs went up.
You talk about stupid DRM, has a few titles on Steam that require Steam heavily. Problim? :D
Comment has been collapsed.
going down?... you mean in quality? because in sales, man, they are getting more money than god rigth now...
and in quality, isn't really about piracy, is about demographic... most of the people NOW want crappy games, the publishers listen that feedback and presure they studios (with money) to make crappy games...
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't support piracy, but I'm more annoyed about people who try to justify it. It's illegal in most countries. Have some balls and don't hide behind excuses like: "Games aren't good enough" or "I only test it out". Coming up with lame excuses only to justify your actions so you don't have to face the fact that you are indeed doing something you aren't supposed to is annoying. Fine, you pirate. That's it. That's the only thing you need to say.
Comment has been collapsed.
The thing is, most people that would do what you say would continue playing a game if they enjoy it. By the end of it, they've already beaten the game. They won't buy it. I honestly think people should just not pirate, period. It gives some stupid devs an excuse to pull off some bullshit they do.
Comment has been collapsed.
It depends on how the game is presented.
Tons of DLC? Probably gonna pirate it unless a GOTY version will be made available. I don't want games at day one, i want complete games.
I'm already planning to buy Borderlands 2 in an year or so, with all the DLC. If this will not be done, i may pirate it.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think it's perfectly fine. Encourages dumb developers to stop creating singleplayer games only.
Comment has been collapsed.
Some of the best games are single player... Look at Half Life 2, even if you don't like that game it still created the engine that's been used in a lot of multiplayer games and mods (and if you don't like any valve games then get the hell off the internet :p)
Comment has been collapsed.
yeah... I think he is a real human being. Which I find quite hard to believe.
Comment has been collapsed.
193 Comments - Last post 2 minutes ago by Atombomb2097
368 Comments - Last post 6 minutes ago by Ratz0
477 Comments - Last post 21 minutes ago by Deathwing1306
13 Comments - Last post 42 minutes ago by Axelflox
24 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by Pika8
237 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by MeguminShiro
83 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by SirChrisSwan
11,312 Comments - Last post 57 seconds ago by CultofPersonalitea
54 Comments - Last post 1 minute ago by Azaltir
38 Comments - Last post 2 minutes ago by CultofPersonalitea
82 Comments - Last post 2 minutes ago by Keka
54 Comments - Last post 16 minutes ago by PsychoApeMan
2,836 Comments - Last post 23 minutes ago by SergrayBrainy
6,922 Comments - Last post 30 minutes ago by Oppenh4imer
Hey guys !
I would like to have your opinion on piracy. IMO pirating a game isn't really stealing the developpers's job but it's a way to try the game before buying it. Since a few years, many games came out in the Steam store (and on other places) and they were shityy games that we paid like 25-50€ thinking it will be a great game... So by pirating a game, I can try it and if I really enjoyed it, I buy it on Steam. I did it with Terraria :)
Let's give your opinion !
PS : I'm not saying that piracy is cool, but something useful to not being f*cked by some games.
Comment has been collapsed.