Capitalization is a waste of time
Stop being so lame?
We have history lessons as a mandatory part of western curriculum that teaches about the evils of war and the sacrifices and suffering that took place in historical warfare, plus memorials, minutes of silence, rememberance days, etc. You're comparing apples to oranges. While men were conscripted, women also had far less agency over the direction of their lives and had to legit get blasted with riot hoses just to be given the ability to vote. You're right that women in the 50's weren't bitching about everything being violence, because any voice that got heard would have been silenced. That's the nature of passive oppression. Thankfully our culture has grown since then, but they too had to fight for their rights.
Rather than turning everything into a big "me me me", why don't you grow a pube and recognise that everyone has bad shit to deal with, but that one issue doesn't cancel another. There is no "Well because this group has to deal with this one thing, we should silence and mock another group for trying to deal with their other totally unrelated thing".
If you want to sit idle and have your home culture totally stagnate and stop trying to improve, that's up to you. Just don't get in the way when other people try to take smalls steps towards making things better. You literally lose nothing by keeping your mouth shut and staying blissfully detached, but your family and potential future partners/children have something they can gain.
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No worries. It just irks me that it's the same old non-arguments thrown from a kneejerk "we must resist all activism subjects!" mentality. Discussion and dissent is a wonderful thing but people just forsake it for halfass scapegoats and strawmen.
Remember the good old days when people would just say what they really mean ("Fuck you!") and drop the pretense of having a rational backing? Le sigh~
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Did it once... in self-defense... it felt great so it must be bad...
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To people who say that cat calling is nothing and it shouldn't make women frightened.
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Simply: difference is in expressing either respect or disrespect.
And some message contents can not be respectful disregarding how you put it. Expressing sexual interest/appeal to someone who is not your partner is intrusion in topics which this someone could allow only for persons of their own choice. Familiarity with unknown people is disrespect which you show, and which you then get in response.
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I'm gonna say none of those comment: plz dont ban me im joking
What if i saw you in the street and i just smile to you or wink, do you feel harassed or threatened ?
Joking aside, in a comment here you said: "catcalling is an aggression, and sometimes it ends up in violence." you know government can't punish someone for saying "hey sexy" to a lady (verbal harassment) and can't even make laws against it, right?
But "if your friends or co-workers do it, you can persuade or talk to them and see if they get it. There's nothing worse than being in a group of friends and allowing them to act like idiots." is a good strategy to fight back.
That being said i don't catcall a woman and i'll never do it, happened to a family member so i know how it feel.
Good call you had the pepper-sprayer, my advice is get a taser.
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I'm from a suburban part of Canada and I don't know what it's like for other areas but here it's normal to smile at someone you pass on the street. Obviously you don't smile at everyone iif it's a busy street but like around the residential areas. If you winked though, I wouldn't feel harassed or threatened but would probably just think, "wtf?" in confusion as to why you're winking lol.
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Bump!
I've heard guys catcalling or shouting shite to women on the streets and many female friends and colleagues have told me stories about men shouting hardcore sexual stuff and insults on the street or dudes following them or flashing them. One told me she was walking from work to her home when she passed by an old man walking with a kid (10/12 years old), she heard the old man telling the kid: "Hey c'mon, tell her something". The kid didn't say anything and looked very uncomfortable and embarrassed with the situation. Sadly it happens all the time.
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Freedom of speech ends, where it violates peoples rights of dignity. Reducing a person to an object is an act of violence. To catcall another person or even insulting another person is just one way to achieve this goal. If you want, you can read my answer on the 3rd page here, which explains the dynamics of power in this case. Just to say that "it's my right, freedom of speech", doesn't give you a jail free card for saying whatever you want. You're ignoring the different levels of power which people have in a group, society or community.
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easily? I think it's really hard work and you need the right mindset. It sounds like it worked for you and I'm happy for you. But don't forget that people are making different experiences and have a different background.
In Berlin is an old prison from the GDR time, which the secret service used. They tortured people there. One method was to put a person in a chair and drop water on the persons head. But not a whole bucket. Only a drop every 5 minutes or so. Sure, easy, ignore the drop. But after a couple of hours, the people went mad because it annoyed them so much and they just couldn't ignored it.
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Reducing a person to an object is an act of violence.
As far as I'm aware, reducing a person to an object is dehumanization, not violence. True, anyone who lacks respect and empathy for his fellow human beings is a half-step away from being a sociopath, but violence is something altogether different.
Still, you have a point. When anti-social boorishness meets foolish naivete, there are multiple fallacies at work. One is a lack of personal responsibility ("You have no right to judge me!"), another is a sense of entitlement ("I demand what I deserve!") While both are fairly commonplace, neither attitude is conducive to navigating the hazards of daily life.
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Reducing a person to an object is an act of violence.
Going to have to disagree with you there. You can call someone a PoS behind their back, or in a better example, you can peacefully protest as a form of speech. There is actual legislation on what constitutes actual violence. Violence is not simply what makes you feel bad, it requires a physical act.
Adversely, speech can be construed as violent. For example, causing mass panic by inciting a riot (yelling 'Fire!' in a dark theater), or threatening to kill someone or cause them bodily harm- and again there is legislation on that. Even cyber bullying, for example, is a form of unprotected speech that is construed as actual violence.
However, simply reducing someone to an object, like a piece of shit- is not actual violence unless there were other extenuating circumstances (like if you were brandishing a weapon in a threatening manner).
The reason I speak on this, is because typically an insult is a behavior in the eye of the beholder. You can joke with your friend, and call him or her a jackass and you both laugh; or you may not. The point is, simplifying the issue to 'insulting people is violence' does not take into account intent at all, which is why there are courts of law instead of courts of opinion. It borders on the essence of thought crime and becomes a slippery slope. If I am insulted by a stranger who rolls their eyes at me while passing by- would I think that was violent behavior? Would you?
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I think there is nothing I can write here, that will change your mind. I just hope that you have an ear for the bad situations some people had to experience. Don't talk down their pain, when it's not yours ok? I bet you have been through some bad times, as we all are and you don't want that people judge your experiences, do you? And of course, you are not a bad person for not agreeing with me ;)
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Freedom of speech is the right to articulate one's opinions and ideas without fear of government retaliation or censorship, or societal sanction.
Learn what freedom of speech is before you use it as an excuse of harassing other. Your comment about black people and voting makes no sense - in that era it was enforced and upheld, or suggest that harassment laws should be voided like the anti-black laws were? Not the best way to communicate either.
Also cat calling IS a secual harassment where the law says it is, don't think that what you believe in is universal. Rough translation of 2003's law no. CXXV:
"Harassment : against the dignity of a human being, behaviour of sexual or other nature what's goal or affect is setting up an intimidating, hostile, humiliating or offensive environment"
"getting physically advanced" can be either harassment or assault as well, depending how "physical" the person is getting. Also feminazi's eye-rape is a strawman, as you're arguing against written laws of every single country in the world on the base of feminazi terminology and behaviour is being upsetting for you.
Chill down and think about a bit, why you're upset about radical feminist "harassing" people with accusations eye-rape and similar stuff, while you're very, very okay with the other side being harassed in a similar, but way, waaay more frequent way, but they should tolerate it because it's just words and the usual "grow a thicker skin".
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"The most basic component of freedom of expression is the right of freedom of speech. The right to freedom of speech allows individuals to express themselves without government interference or regulation. The Supreme Court requires the government to provide substantial justification for the interference with the right of free speech where it attempts to regulate the content of the speech. Generally, a person cannot be held liable, either criminally or civilly for anything written or spoken about a person or topic, so long as it is truthful or based on an honest opinion, and such statements." source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/first_amendment , Legal Information Institute
also:
"Harassment is governed by state laws, which vary by state, but is generally defined as a course of conduct which annoys, threatens, intimidates, alarms, or puts a person in fear of their safety. Harassment is unwanted, unwelcomed and uninvited behavior that demeans, threatens or offends the victim and results in a hostile environment for the victim. Harassing behavior may include, but is not limited to, epithets, derogatory comments or slurs and lewd propositions, assault, impeding or blocking movement, offensive touching or any physical interference with normal work or movement, and visual insults, such as derogatory posters or cartoons." (https://definitions.uslegal.com/h/harassment/)
Pay attention to the part of Harassing behavior may include, but is not limited to, epithets, derogatory comments or slurs and lewd propositions
So, your debunked "only done at work" is not correct, actually it is harassment and the " law clearly states it must be pervasive and constant" part is also false. Also the second source says harassment is varied by state so it's not in the constitution that catcalling is a form of free speech, otherwise the harassment definition wouldn't include the slur and lewd propositions, so the "Even California [...] cant explictly make catcalling illegal" is also wrong.
After this would you please tell why "It's actually against the law in some places." is something that you start arguing about, about countries you don't even fucking now, while missing every.single.point. about your own (?) country's laws as well?
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You read an awful lot into what I said. There was no argument. "Getting physically advanced on" is assault, by the way, and goes beyond harassment. I also never used the word sexual.
Lastly, freedom of speech doesn't protect nearly as much as you (and others) seem to believe it does. There are numerous limitations to what's protected under "free speech." If you honestly believe street harassment falls under someone's "right to free speech", then this thread and conversation are falling on deaf ears with you.
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well, fortunately i don't see it a lot in here but i'm not a woman too :) but don't see a point in behaviour like that, even statistically picking up in this way is so low that i can't think it's has any sense, maybe they just want to show how macho they are but they're showing how small their brain is too
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I'm too shy to even think about catcalling someone.
But I agree, so many viejos verdes everywhere.
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- If you don't want to get catcalled, dress appropriately!
1: Don't blame the victim.
2: I dress as I please. It's my body, not someone else's.
3: It doesn't matter if it's winter and I'm wearing a jacket, or summer with shorts and a t-shirt. Some people will be idiots anyway and say things.
typical feminists omelette flipping, turning good old good sense into "victim shaming" to justify their thottery.
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to turn a thing at your liking for having right at all cost
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Interesting phrasing. I wonder exactly what you consider the "at all costs" to be, when it comes to catcalling.
Exactly what does anybody lose out on, by daring to suggest that catcalling is an annoying thing that could use to be stepped back?
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as you can well see from tc haughtiness and the tenor of the comments, by ideologizing the whole matter (imb4 all mens are rapist, the whole world should adopt feminism, muh egalitarianism, so on) it went far beyond a worthless suggestion and became an even more worthless political whining.
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So, to clarify, the answer my question of what people lose out on by recognising catcalling as a negative thing and worth calling out, is that it's at a danger of entering a slippery slope that demonises men? Because your reply seemed to be a sidestep full of buzzwords and no recognition of the actual question, rather than a direct reply.
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that would be far more than a danger... comments in here, actual feminist closed circle and the well known "all men are rapist" slogan shows that. that without considering feminist paranoia dictate a custom made law to appease their delusions (menspreading). what people lose? time. over a non problem that got magnified for ideological reason, and whose medicine YOU PEOPLE advocate (which will inevitably result in men-women social interactions being further eroded and enhancing a "sex war") is worse than the "disease" it should cure. idk buddy, think about how the porn industry impact on men-women relationship instead mumbling about actions that are already prosecuted by law (unless we are considering a whistle a tempted rape, that is...)
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You seem to be under the impression that catcalling is a feminist only issue. Or that because extremists within that group exist, everyone who is against catcalling must be one of them, or advocates for the lunatic fringe element of womens rights. This is a false equivocation. Acknowledging the intimidation element of catcalling and how de-normalising it would be a good thing, is in no way the same as advocating for or supporting extremists that harm actual equality between the sexes.
If you are concerned about the gender war stuff, why would you react with the constant language, mentality and accusations of "YOU PEOPLE" and so forth, claiming support for the extremists when I have said no such thing. It's like you're holding a conversation with a third party that is not present and then trying to project that onto me. It is not appreciated. And no, the porn industry is not the current subject, and there is no need for us to segue into it even if it is vaguely and distantly related. You're suggesting we randomly change the subject when you are unable to fully reconcile with the points I raise? I decline. If you feel it is somehow related, then make the connection, but given you have literally made a chain of leaps that collectively amounts to "If you declare you shouldn't have to change your clothing to avoid harassment, you're a feminist extremist and anybody dissenting from this is one of 'your people'", I don't hold my breath. :P
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uroboros pls. which category is well known to carry on and pontifice on meaningless and alleged social issues such as this one? let alone even the sole adaptation to a certain leanguage and terms easily refereable to a certain political root (no idea from where this term comes from, although I have a vague idea ...). i am pretty active in the local political group i frequent ... still havn't see anyone, literally anyone, bringing this up. not even women.
it is how you behave, including the alleged social issues you whine about, that defines who you are. you people tend not to leave much to imagination, you sometimes seem to have come out of a mounting chain. about the porn industry, you might want to read my previous message again and noticed after what reasoning i came to that conclusion. yes, porn coupled with it being easily accessible and of public domain is contributing to dehumanizing men-women relationship, aesthetising a blind research of hedonism for its own sake, subtly promoting a distorted idea of sex that passes from women objectification. the valorisation of women passes from them being free of doing what they please, they say. to bad, it has consequences :V
not necessarily a retard feminist of course. being an excessively naive liberal who consider innocent some behaviors and ignoring the possible ambiguity it might cause its enough :v
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How exactly would someone be able to bring up something about you, that somebody knows about? "A local politlcal group" could mean fucking anything. We're not psychic, if you want the link to be made, you need to raise it. We're not on a familiar first-name basis here where we memorise facets of each others personal lives. :U
And if it is the social issues that you whine about that defines who you are, what then do you suppose the forum readers should surmise about you, when you come out of nowhere to rant about feminism and SJWs when no mention of them were made? When you constantly run in circles and rage about how awful they are, and how anybody who even dares ask about your values is 'one of them'? Yes, the porn industry is a point of interest when it comes to the subject of gender relations and culture and whatnot, but that isn't the subject we're talking about, so I still fail to see why you offhandedly bring it up when the focus on feminism was entirely yours?
It was entirely you who inserted feminism into the subject, and purely for the purpose of bemoaning it.
Prior to that, the focus was on catcalling. If you wanted to draw the link between them and discuss matters, you could have done, but instead you chose to literally drop "typical feminists omelette flipping, turning good old good sense into "victim shaming" to justify their thottery."
This is a problem entirely of your own making.
For someone who talks of common sense and natural repercussion, you are certainly squirming a lot when held accountable for making petty jabs.
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buddy... this kind of matters has ties with certain ideologies. feminists constantly barks about it, egalitarianists too. im far away from you in the so called political sprectrum, and so is a large part of the people i know. you people are the only one whining about this kind of stuff. that sole term among many other ridiculous one are part of the modern feminist vocabulary, and you making use of it puts you into that category. the connection ive made does make sense and is in line with reality.
the large diffusion of porn is imhh one of the greater cause of this "catcalling", as you people name it, and thats why i bringed it up. as i already said, that first sentence of mine was deliberately provocative (but not necessarily wrong :v) and evidently tending to shitpost. my 2 cent dropped by on what is nothing more than a politic thread. and you are still making a delirious drama of it... quite a success for a petty jab
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Except that when you put the onus on the target while also showing zero focus to the initiator, that's literally blaming the victim. Even assuming good intentions on the part of someone posting like this, when the subject is catcalling and the reply diverts to 'adaption', that is a kneejerk and eternally repeated change of subject even at it's most innocent.
Rather than leaping to the tired old feminist strawman propaganda, if you really had an objection, why didn't you attempt to engage on the subject and make your actual thoughts and concerns known (assuming you have any)? If you only reply for catharsis, I wonder why you chose to skim-read the opening post when you must have known it would cause you such discomfort :u
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the status of alleged victim don't make you immune to criticism... especially if you reap what you sow
can't i? :V oh right i forgot, only you people™ are allowed in this magic equal gayland of yours. really, sorry for passing by :V
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I never suggested that anybody is immune to criticism, I suggested that automatic deflection of specific focal points is dishonest and aggravating when done in perpetuity. You say "reap what you sow" but did not clarify. How exactly do you believe the OP deserved the treatment they received? And now that you literally dropped 'you reap what you sow', how can you possibly reconcile that mentality with your claim of not blaming the victim?
Instead of fumbling for canned "us vs them" passive aggressive lines, I again ask if you have an objection to the subject that is worth voicing, why aren't you attempting to discuss the matter instead of just draw lines in the sand, point at the shoddy strawman and declare "it's the enemy!". Look at your language. "You people". Suggestions that you are being singled out for dissenting in the same breath as claiming this is some kind of "magic equal gayland of yours". In that other nearby post you even conjured up unrelated scapegoats by dropping "inb4 all men are rapists" and even tried to put a negative spin on egalitarianism. If you really hate the SJW mentality so much, why exactly are you so willing to act as an exact mirror copy of their tactics towards people who didn't treat you that way first? Isn't there a point where you notice you can't reply to even genuine engagement without vomiting barely related political memes? I mean, doesn't this even tickle your cognitive dissonance when you behave as a carbon copy of that which you dislike so much?
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crypto must have got triggered pretty bad if your remember that after all this time.
good.
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That quote is hardly just a piece of text that gets said every day, remembering it as a bizarre example would be pretty normal.
...don't you feel a twinge of the cringe when you make replies like this though? I mean, I'm just guessing here, but you're not a minor are you?
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oy vey. i tend to respond to shitpost with other shitpost, no doubt it might look childish. tbh it really comes naturally when im dealing with such special specimens of the sg fauna.
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Agree with Kaz.
Just ignore them, there vocabulary literally speaks volumes.
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so thats where you were heading. you could have showed that white armor of yours right on the start instead of faking to pretend clarifications. when did i talked about mullys situation? did i even mentioned her so far? thank god im the one changing subject here.
that single passage i quoted is a clear allusion to a certain way of dressing, which is to be considered inappropriate for that old good sense. you know, that bigot and archaic concept, nowadays overthrown by modern thots to justify their degenerate behavior. no idea if mully was dressed as such, don't even care. if she was, she has little to complain for. after all -naivety, excessive hope in humanity, distorted morale inlcuded - you reap what you sow.
that only terme we are discussing has a political root traceable to a certain ideology. what did you expect? add people who sometime voice their opinions in a "rough" way (that includes me), or even the skill tc has to cause flames without it being blamed on her, throwing the stone and hide the hand (mind: not a critic nor a blame, actually a compliment). pretty sure that all those who visit the forum since just a few months knew what was about to happen just by watching the thread's name.
hope it helps, if not just add a free +1 at your daily won argument and be happy. as for me, i always forget that certain plebs among the sg fauna are so sensitive to turn a little poke into a delirious drama. when there is to elaborate a statement i do so most of the times, at the best that my average english and google translator allows me to do, hoping that the possible ideological distance between our views wont cause unneeden confusion. if i dont, either is because i consider the person who im talking to a literal breathing junkbag or because that initial statement was deliberately provocative (due to me being mildly triggered) and meant to cause butthurts or just to gather some more blacklist/ignorelist (this was the original idea, untill a new
even tried to put a negative spin on egalitarianism
no need to. you people™ elevating yourselves as bearers of the superior ethic and constantly advocating to force your idiotic morale over everyone thinking that you pathological altruism is an added value is enough. thats what is mainly pushing lots of people into hierarchism these days, so... keep doing that! :3
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When did you talk about Mully's situation? You literally said "you reap what you sow". If not in reference to the OP, then what exactly were you alluding to? Every catcall target? Don't feign ignorance.
Oh, wait, never mind, in your next paragraph you literally clarify yourself to mean every catcall target if they weren't dressing down. FML, haha. Degenerate behaviour, really? Well excuuuuse me princess, I thought grown ass men were capable of self-control or dealing with grown-ass repercussions when they're being douchey. No, no, that's alright, we'll just insist it's the womens responsibility if they get targeted, because the feeemales left their home without wearing their burka! You're right, 'excessive hope in humanity' is naive, we should scoff at women who expect men to act like adults. Do you not even realise how self-defeating your rhetoric is? :P
No, you're not "just voicing your opinion in a rough way", you're spewing a constant stream of strawmen and projecting a bogeyman of feminist extremism upon anyone who even dares to inquire as to the logic underpinning your opinions. Don't you even see the hypocrisy in calling others overly sensitive when you yourself can't even tolerate the idea of a woman saying "I dress how I want to" without turning into a frothing keyboard warrior? You have felt so personally challenged by nothing more than plain questions that you have repeatedly had to build a wall of strawmen portraying me as a white knight or a morale bully to hide behind. You have barely been able to even outline your stance without interpreting it as a personal attack of apparently 'forcing morals upon you'. For questions. Literal questions. Asking how you reconcile your shit. And you call this 'pushing' or representative of 'delirious drama'.
With all this fragility of yours, how can you claim with a straight face that it's everyone else who is being so delicate?
I mean, what, do you want an apology for someone asking for clarification? Do you feel bullied because I requested you clarify how you rationalise your position? As I said before, you are a pure case of the horseshoe theory in action. You are a mirror image of exactly what you claim to hate.
Surely you will just quarantine my reply with the cop-out of "Uroboros is obviously an SJW" so you don't have to challenge your worldview and can continue in your straight, unchanging mental autopilot, but I at least tried to be open about this. Sorry you see that as such a threat?
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but would you look at that, the white knight rises with his majestic armor making all the sg ladies instantly wetty. how about you checking once again my first message and your first reply to it, perhaps? was i referring to mullys situation or did i quoted a single statement of her absolute truth bearing faqs? and after it, were we talking about that single specific case or generalizing over the whole matter? i got that you are desperatly in need of womens... gratitude, but care to calm down a bit that crazy willy of yours at least. hopefully mully will reward you accordingly for having saved her.
and there he goes to put on me thesis i never supported, good job. of course thots are not asking to be sexually harassed (which in case you forgot, is already prosecuted by law) for dressing like a thots, jeez. that being said, its is physiological that those who dress in an "eccentric" way (that ofc include being dressed like batman et simila) will be noticed more than someone who dress, say, casual. and given the nature of that dressing you can easily imagine the consequent nature of the attention you will be getting, among which you might be unfortunate enough to stumble into those of a , no more no less, predator. dressing like a thot does get of you more in danger for that regard. you could do it light heartedly, considering innocent a behavior that is all but that. that wont be an excuse. if you can doesnt mean you should. in the same way i doubt you will be going around ghettos waving your poket full of shekels. if you do... reap what you sow, and you fully deserved that. yes, this is plain and simple excessive hope in humanity coupled with cute and naive feelings believed to overwrite the indomitable inherent savage human nature. a wall you people™ appearently realize to exists only when you smash your face into it :v
kinda lost you at the next phrases of yours. a big word after another im even unable to traslate without telling a thing. a very common trait among you people, talking a lot without saying nothing, at best masking logic with your idiotic morale and equality fantasies deliberately ignoring how the world turns. i repeat tho, keep doing that! pff, no offense taken here, not from you nor from them thots, go figured. it would just be appreciated for them to at least be honest with themself enough to review how they relate toward the world instead of rising a new first world problem with no head and nor tail. answering to your argumentum ad hominem and accusation is a due cat.
SJW
well, you... dont really leave the benefit of the doubt tbh. true that sjw is a generalized and to some extent overrated term but yes, you can say you fit the stereotyped ream. worry not, the world is full with "specially gifted" people :V
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If you really have such an objection to the male-blame mentality of the SJWs, then why is it that you're so willing to claim any man disagreeing with you is doing it to somehow get sex? Like I said before, do you even understand how self-defeating your behaviour is?
How can you even claim ad hominem when your primary counter to my replies is to claim I'm part of your 'enemy' ideology just because I am asking you to show your reasoning (to justify the points you stand by)? Do you even appreciate how hypocritical it is to constantly say people are whining and easily upset when you can't engage in basic discussion without shrieking buzzwords about delusion, white knights, "thots" and feminism bogeymen?
There is such a massive disconnect between basic language and your worldview that there really is no recourse here.
I'm done with this thread chain. Later.
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that would imply to blame all the men for a few "rotten apple" among them, and its not me the one that is making this combination (how was that crazy feministas slogan? not all men are rapists but all rapists are men, iirc?). needless to say, those who commit ACTUAL sexual violence are to be treated ancient rome style, and in my fashy dreams im the one wielding the axe. dont get what connection you are making to call about self-defeat tbh. that being said, how about you perv stopping to put words into my mouth to pick up some female attention? i replied to a single sentence, you tried to switch the subject with mullys situations trying to depitch me as a sexual harasser supporter. how pitiful.
accuse me of being unable to bring on a discussion without buzzwords while this whole whining which you are even supporting is based on one :U makes perfect sense. yes, you are clearly part of a political ideology i despise. regardless, you got what you wanted in my previous comment just above yours. and still you whine.
bye.
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I don't think catcalling should be a criminal offense or anything like that but it's just a matter of having respect for other people and being considerate of the fact that you might be scaring them. If you refuse to respect others and refuse to be considerate of other people when it comes to their safety, then you're just a class A asshole. Women just can't tell if you're just saying words or if there's some malicious intent behind those words.
To illustrate this, I'll use a rather extreme example of carrying a gun. In a lot of places in the US (apparently) you are allowed to just walk down the street with a rifle strapped to your back (I'm Canadian but I've moved to the US and this baffles me). As long as you have the permit, you're good, it's legal. You have the right to do it. But you should be considerate of the fact that you're scaring people so you probably shouldn't be doing it. When they react with fear, your response to them shouldn't be "You should be glad a nice guy like me is out here with a gun instead of a bad guy!" but rather some empathy for the fact that they're scared. They don't know you're just carrying your gun over to show it off to your friends. How do they know you're not looking to shoot up the neighbourhood?
I'm not saying men shouldn't talk to women at all. That's just dumb. But just as you wouldn't want a strange person walking up to you and starting a conversation with a disrespectful, "hey dickwad", women don't want a strange person walking up to us and starting a conversation with a disrespectful sexual statement that may even scare us... like, "ooh honey, I'd like to take you home with me tonight!" Is he just being inappropriate or is he a psycho who really is going to follow me and force me to go home with him? No idea.
As for more tame comments like, "hey beautiful" or "hey girl, how you doing?" that I'd just class as more creepy or annoying than threatening. Yes, the words themselves aren't offensive or inappropriate but it's the fact that it's being said in a context that doesn't fit the words. Why are you saying that to someone just walking past you in the street? It sure as hell isn't to get to know her better and have a meaningful relationship. It's just for the purpose of being annoying and disrespectful.
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all you said doesn't make the issue at hand disappear.
your advice about confronting offenders doesn't work, not to mention it's a waste of time and you will get even more unwanted attention and violence. that's the issue here, i'm not walking from point A to B, to be approached by strangers trying to get in my pants.
and no, not only homeless people do it. that's a myth. homeless people don't go to clubs, they don't drive cars, they don't own houses. you know how common sexual harassment is in a workplace?
apply the same mentality but in the street.
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Comment deleted... :(
What did he/she post...?
replies are very interesting, did someone put out the stigmata card on homeless people...?
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I went through some of the videos and for sure, there is inappropriate language and people creepily taking photos. But specifically regarding the "10hrs in NYC" one, how is it that things like "have a nice day" get included? I think there can be a distinction between someone politely complimenting or wishing someone a good day, and someone making sexual comments or following them.
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have a nice day!
what is that guy expecting from a total stranger, the same reply and nothing else? he will live happily ever after after a totally unknown woman passes by him and replies back? and no, he isn't doing this to cheer up people
besides, they don't tell men to have a nice day. if you have to wait at a bus stop and there's one of these idiots around, you will only see him talking to women passing by. it's 100% guaranteed he won't say a word to a single guy.
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what is that guy expecting from a total stranger, the same reply and nothing else? he will live happily ever after after a totally unknown woman passes by him and replies back?
Acknowledgement makes people feel a bit warmer on the inside.
besides, they don't tell men to have a nice day.
Probably because they would not be attracted to men, and therefore complimenting a feature of another man would be slightly awkward for them.
Look, I understand how some people wouldn't enjoy random compliments, but I don't think it in anyway constitutes as harassment. The same way I don't think anything said in this video is harassment.
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I think it's equally non-sexual if I were to only compliment female friends (in ways mentioned before, at least).
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The NYC video was apparently a viral ad so it's hard to take seriously, just as that video you linked here is. You can really only go by your own experience and by recollections of people you trust not to wildly exaggerate (because of some ingrained political agenda that makes them stubborn).
However, there is context to Mully's post that she unfortunately left out: where she lives. It's totally fathomable that other parts of the world (Latin America in particular) have customs that we in western Europe would find vulgar. In this case, it's probably wiser to complain about the culture instead of telling random people not to do something you dislike when none of them do it anyway, and couldn't ever do it to you regardless.
Though I will note that your video was overall a lot more positive. Both the guy and the women mostly seemed to enjoy or at the very least be more neutral about basic socialising with other human beings - which is the better outcome in my opinion. I think we've all had unexpected social encounters that left us smiling in the end. It's a nice thing despite any bad encounters that have a slim chance of happening.
But it's fair enough if you want to be anti-social or if particularly crass comments piss you off. You equally can't expect everyone to feel the same way you do in those cases.
Let's also not forget that there are both men and women that do indulge in meaningless relationships, so it's not like forming a meaningful relationship is a universal prerequisite for sex. The more vocally vulgar ones on the street have probably either heard the same from prostitutes, or said the same things to them and received more positive feedback. It's vulgar either way in my opinion - and it would be nicer if the disgusting people were not let out into the public (because even if the majority of people are nice, there's always gonna be that vocal minority) - but even then, it's not violence and it's only harassment if it persists.
Anyway, going back to some of these videos, the comments most people made weren't even all that obscene. Most of the people just wanted the woman's attention and were polite enough about it. You're allowed to dislike it and be offended if you want, just like you can dislike and be offended by someone handing out leaflets about the morality of abortion or whatever.
So in conclusion, bad things can happen and it is a good idea to keep your wits about you - we unfortunately do not live in paradise, but we don't have to let that fact define us. We don't have to let the vulgar few ruin the simple "good morning" and "have a nice day".
Let's identify that people like different things and that living in a world filled with people, you'll come up against things you don't like or disagree with. Let's also identify that some parts of the world have rich, interesting cultures with ugly, rotting clumps buried within that still need addressing. Focus your efforts where they're needed and always try to sustain a balanced mind for fear of zealotry!
And finally, If I were to make an analogy, it's like making a discussion about how Muslims shouldn't spread their religion because the terrorists are evil. Yeah there are dangerous Muslims out there, no doubt, but most are just like you and I. And when they try to show you why Islam is great, it does not make them inherently dangerous :)
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"Have a nice day" got probably included, as the person saying it does not say it to everyone they pass on the street.
I experienced (rural) parts of Germany, where it was and is common to greet strangers on the street with a "have a nice day".
But it is not common in cities. I would assume it is not common to greet every stranger in most cities worldwide (correct me, if I am wrong here).
As soon as it is not common behaviour it is a kind of focused attention that invades the other's private sphere.
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I will neve accept this type of behavior, I have older sisters and even If I didn´t have them. I remember that a mayor up north in my country said that women wouldnt get harassed or even raped If they didn´t wear skirt and tight blouse... what a god damn retard. Unfortunately this issue is common in Latín America. The lack of family values, desintegrated families, bad companies, etc.
I hope we can eradicate this mentality soon, seems hard tho.
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It's sad that we live in a world where these reminders are needed but also awesome that there are people willing to make them.
One anecdote I enjoy telling is this:A few years ago my partner at the time came into our apartment after biking home from work. Normally she'd feel exhausted and not want to do much at the end of a workday, but she gave me a huge grin and said "Hey, let's go out tonight!" I said something like "Woah, you're in a great mood, what's up?" She proceeded to tell me about how, while stopping at a red light, some dude was catcalling her and at first she just ignored him (as a lot of women tend to do). Eventually he said something about how she wasn't cute enough to ignore him and that's when she snapped. She turned directly towards him and demanded "Does this EVER work for you? Calling out randomly to women on the street? Has it EVER gotten you a phone number or a date or even a good reply?" My partner said dude was just dumbfounded, as if no woman had ever asked him so bluntly. He shook his head and shrugged and she said "Well think about that!" The next thing she knew he actually mumbled a "sorry".
Now of course that's not always going to happen and I completely understand why a lot of ladies would just ignore them completely rather than engage but it's something that's stayed with me and that I feel compelled to share.
Peace and bike grease, as we used to say.
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This thread is inappropriate for SG, please close and delete it!
"Anyone who thinks this thread is inappropriate for SG can go soak their head. The original post is not a problem."
--Khalaq
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to me this is more like a small part of a greater problem and that's a lot of people just can't behave themselves in general.
what to do? i don't know. there's only so much you can do trying to avoid the scum.
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After a while it ended with me turning around and pepper-spraying his face
Good for you. I know it's sad that it has to come to that but glad to hear about people standing up to bullshit that the world throws at them. I've always been kind of a shy guy and while I don't personally whistle I will admit I don't really see it as more than a nuisance. Stalking, on the other hand, is a completely different matter altogether.
Then again I also think "mansplaining" and "manspreading" are really really stupid names/concepts so ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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Great thread!
I'm glad that this kind of thing does not happen to me, but a friend of mine experienced this on her way to work when a guy talked to her, called her nasty things because she ignored him and in the end, even touched her and tried to kiss her.
Sure, there are more serious cases of violence against women in the world but that doesn't mean that we should ignore what's happening right in front of us.
The sad thing is, even the police didn't care, because the offender was... erm... had a mental problem and does this quite frequently. So she was told to ignore it and get over it.
I was outraged, so was her mother. I told her to get pepper spray, for the next weeks, her mom escorted her to work.
I'm not sure if men always understand this, but for a woman, it can be really scary if someone does intrude your personal space on the streets or even online even if it's just with words. Sometimes these people aren't alone, sometimes they're way bigger... and it makes you aware, that you could become a victim in a matter of seconds.
I don't say that this does not apply to men as well, I'm sure it feels just as bad for them if a woman would comment on their "huge package".
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there's a cultural issue that has been dragging on for centuries already, women have been always second-class citizens. just like racism isn't gone 100%, misogyny is the norm for some people. it's so natural that most don't even know what they are doing. ^^
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I'm very aware guys also get harassed by both men and women, but this thread is about girls. Feel free to create another thread for that issue, and I will support it.
A bit confused why it can't be both. Any form of harassment is a two way street - I would think it would be appropriate to treat it as such.
That aside (that's not what the thread is about, just wanted to share my two cents), I agree that this sort of behaviour should stop. Luckily, there's not much harassment around where I live. Low, rather aged population. The worse I've heard from my family was when two of my sisters were walking around town and some drunk guy was following them around saying things about them being cute and that he'd make "top models" out of them if they'd come along. He had the decency to leave them be when they ignored him though. Harassment/violence isn't really common here. In other places though, I'm afraid there's nothing that can be done (although your efforts are commendable for sure) to make assholes stop being assholes. I wish you good luck though, perhaps it just happens that some SG users (or some friends of their) are involved in such behaviour and will reconsider.
In other news, I'm doing my part because; 1. I don't go out 2. I'm an extremely timid guy (and not a douche in any case) 3. I have no friends so none of my friends are assholes. Heh.
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Makes sense, yeah. Sucks to hear it's a daily occurrence - I'm a bit of a stranger to that kind of stuff happening to me or anyone else. I guess that's the perk of living in the middle on nowhere? :P
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🌟 Giveaways (moved to top for convenient leeching 😁):
If you want to share giveaways, please use this template:
copy everything inside the ` (even the opening/closing `grave accents`), edit and and paste it in your reply
Please use the format provided above! It's easier for me to copy-paste multiple giveaways in this thread. 🐤
It will take me a few days to update the list. To avoid having your giveaway not "showcased" set its duration to more than 5 days (unless you don't care, it's up to you).
Because I'm tired of getting catcalled and watching others in the street receive the same treatment, I decided to share some information with everyone in SG hoping that they can stop doing it and/or talk to their friends to make them reconsider their behavior.
Street harassment is unwanted and unwelcomed public attention, most often directed at women, which is demeaning and damaging. It’s not a private matter but one that should concern everyone.
If you have trouble empathising with strangers, then think about your mother, sister, or girlfriend. Would you enjoy watching people catcalling and telling them nasty things? How do you think they would feel about it?
On an average day I go out twice and I get at least one guaranteed catcall. On weekends or when I go out, for example to a club, it gets worse because groups of people feel more empowered to do so.
A few months ago I was walking with a friend and one guy said things and started to follow us. After a while it ended with me turning around and pepper-spraying his face, then running away in case he could fight back. This is the kind of violence it generates.
We had a rough rest of the day and were shaken up. I didn't enjoy doing that at all, but he had to be stopped. I also like to think the guy didn't enjoy it either.
So in the end, what did he achieve? Nothing.
Edit
OK, I'm gonna clear this up since some people like to assume things just to blame me for defending myself.
For the backward people, this was in june when I wasn't wearing "provocative shorts and t-shirts" clothes. These are the "nice compliments" I got amongst others i don't even want to repeat here and/or I want to forget:
hey girl nice butt
does your friend wanna F with me too?
hey reply bitch
come here lesbos!
GONNA EAT YOUR ASS
Walked one block with that guy which was 1 meter away from us. He wasn't shouting from the other side of the street, he wasn't half a block away, he wasn't sitting in the sidewalk. He was right behind us.
He got warned to leave us alone during the whole 1-block fast-paced walk. I didn't stop to "discuss" because I'm not a 1.9 meters 120kg guy, so I'm not putting my friend and I at risk at 8:30pm in the street.
You read the "You're not alone" thread?
Well, most of the stuff that I shared about me is linked directly to an experience related to this, but I wasn't walking with a friend and there were two guys instead of one following me. You can guess what happened next since I wasn't able to defend myself.
But of course, street harassment is harmless and nothing else can go wrong, nor it can trigger unhappy memories from past experiences.
Think a bit before judging others so quickly assuming they overreact when they feel in danger.~
I know I probably won't convince anyone catcalling to stop by posting this (it doesn't hurt to try), but if your friends or co-workers do it, you can persuade or talk to them and see if they get it. There's nothing worse than being in a group of friends and allowing them to act like idiots.
It's disgusting and demeaning, stop it. You're hurting people with your actions and makes you look like a fool.
❤️️ FAQ, in case you're gonna post one of these comments I get all the time.
- But some women like to be catcalled!
Yes, there's also men that like to get hit in the face with a hammer. So using the same logic, I should go out and hit all men with a hammer in hopes they enjoy it?
- Don't be so sensitive, ignore it.
No, it reaches a point it can't be ignored. It's not an isolated issue once per month or in certain situations so you can avoid it. It also affects me a lot depending on my mood, so when you feel like crap and you get catcalled, things get worse.
- So you want others to come to your rescue when some stranger catcalls you? That will end up with me getting in a fight!
I'm not asking people to fight for me, just them to stop doing it, spread the word, and discourage people in their group of friends from being disrespectful.
- If you don't want to get catcalled, dress appropriately!
1: Don't blame the victim.
2: I dress as I please. It's my body, not someone else's.
3: It doesn't matter if it's winter and I'm wearing a jacket, or summer with shorts and a t-shirt. Some people will be idiots anyway and say things.
- I bet you like it when a handsome guy catcalls you!
Irrelevant. I expect respect from everyone.
- What about men? They also get harassed!
I'm very aware guys also get harassed by both men and women, but this thread is about girls. Feel free to create another thread for that issue, and I will support it.
- So this is just a misandrist rant!
It's not. If you feel targeted by anything I said, then it's not because you're a man, it's because you actions ressemble what it's said here.
- Meh, it could be worse.
It could be worse, but it SHOULD be better. Also, normalizing this behavior makes it even more painful for victims.
- Women also catcall!
I never said they don't, but for each woman that catcalls me, i get 500 guys. So the issue at hand is the one I shared.
- This thread offends me!
That tells a lot about you. Log off, take your time, and think about it.
- This thread is inappropriate for SG, please close and delete it!
Go tell that to all other threads about awareness, politics, religion, sports, disasters, etc.
💙 Some info and articles:
Stop Street Harassment
Wikipedia definition
Documenting women's stories of street harassment
Why we need to take street harassment seriously
Dutch woman faces down her catcallers by posting selfies with them
💚 Videos:
Au bout de la rue (Court-métrage) - france
10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman - usa
Woman is filmed walking London's streets for secret documentary - uk
Male actor dresses as woman to experience sexual harassment - egypt
Sons React to Their Moms Getting Catcalled - usa
💛 And some pictures:
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