Capitalization is a waste of time
Hmm.. i could write a story of catcalling to either me and/or my besties for almost everyday of the week.. LA can be just as bad if not worse, especially in the professional world. Creeeps everywhere.. After a decade though, it becomes so monotonous, it doesn't even phase me or my besties.
Comment has been collapsed.
I think this is the first time I agree with you, Mully. Way to go.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why would you even want them to stop catcalling? This way you'll know which ones of them are unpleasant people without even trying, time saved!
"Oooh boiii, it was so cute the way he followed me 5 blocks, through the subway and all the way to my house. Do you think heβs single?!β said NO woman, ever.
Anyway, it deserves a little bump!
Comment has been collapsed.
I wouldn't mind I could add them on BL so they wouldn't be able to shout after me ever again.
But sadly we can't do this >:D
Comment has been collapsed.
Have you seen this by any chance? The plot deals (among other things) with a future tech where you can block people in real life and the societal consequences of doing this. I highly recommend it if you're into somewhat dark sci-fi/drama :)
Comment has been collapsed.
I haven't seen any of Black Mirror episodes yet but I'll definitely watch it soon, sounds like a great tv show, I like anthology series.
Comment has been collapsed.
yes, they are making an unnatural effort to get noticed by everyone. β€οΈοΈ
Comment has been collapsed.
Seems like there were at least 20 deleted posts in this thread. It must be some kind of record. I wonder what people are so ashamed of?
Comment has been collapsed.
I doubt it's shame. When you post in threads like this, you get blacklists from zealots on both sides - and without anyone even discussing with you. So some people post, get a couple of blacklists and delete. Pretty sad, really :(
Comment has been collapsed.
It serves as a nice reminder on your statpage to see a spike of both black and whitelists.
"Huh, I must have talked about some political thing that month"
Comment has been collapsed.
one was trying to get whitelisted in another thread, also deleted his reply there when he got denied.
i suppose some are also afraid of blacklists because their *pure* reasons are being opposed (you know, like having racist rights denied, it's inconceivable), but i would rather think they reconsidered and realized something was really wrong with their reasoning so they were ashamed. ^^
edit: and there are some that probably didn't want everyone to read their personal experiences, understandable.
Comment has been collapsed.
Wouldn't it be easier telling him about your motive than theorizing about other peoples motives?
Comment has been collapsed.
All I can say is I have an experience with something like this so I totally understand where you're coming from because it may be harmless and fun for the perpetrator, but to the person on the receiving end? We're just minding our own business yo, nobody needs that shit.
Kudos to you for creating a detailed and insightful thread.
Comment has been collapsed.
...but if your friends or co-workers do it, you can persuade or talk to them and see if they get it. There's nothing worse than being in a group of friends and allowing them to act like idiots.
This is the solution. I never understood how people could watch things happening that they morally disagreed with, but never had the courage to stand up and say something. That not only goes for friends or family, but for anyone you come across in life who is doing something stupid. We need to hold each other accountable for our actions.
So, next time you're out in the world and you see someone getting catcalled, speak up and say something. Passiveness, idleness or even bumping this thread isn't going to do anything in the grand scheme of things, we need to be proactive in dealing with the problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
Ah yes, and get hospitalized or worse by a mob of bored teens or a group of Northern-Africans.
Telling off friends or family is one thing, but telling off random strangers that travel in herds...
Comment has been collapsed.
Yeah, I don't want to hear it. If they aren't afraid to harass a person, you shouldn't be afraid to stand up for said person.
Anything else is cowardice.
Good luck with your conscience next time you watch someone getting harassed, but don't have the balls to say something.
Comment has been collapsed.
So what about extending this to much more extreme things like murder? Why don't people stand against their government part taking in wars or performing state terror? Isn't that the worst type of cowardice? I mean depending on country it might lead to prison, or death, but isn't that small price to pay for standing up for principles?
Comment has been collapsed.
I take part in protests all around my area, from the ones dealing with the wars that we are currently in, to gun reform, to LQBT rights. Even Net Neutrality.
I live in the U.S., so I understand that we have it easier to show protest to our government compared to other countries around the world. Even then, there are ways to resist. You have to do something if you want change around you to happen. You can't sit idly.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why haven't you taken up the arms yet? It's clearly the time when you government has for long time been absolutely evil? Isn't that the duty of any good citizen?
Comment has been collapsed.
beaten to death
Live a coward then? Good luck with your conscience next time you watch someone getting harassed, but don't have the balls to say something. Maybe screaming's a good way to deal with it.
Comment has been collapsed.
How do you get thing's to change around you then? Cause I guarantee you, if you don't do anything the problems will get worse.
This is coming from someone whose been hospitalized three times, because I was the minority where I grew up. They would come at me with bats because they didn't like the color of my skin, so forgive me if it's hard for me to empathize.
Comment has been collapsed.
They would come at me with bats because they didn't like the color of my skin, so forgive me if it's hard for me to empathize.
One would think this would make it easier to empathize
Comment has been collapsed.
Get out of the thread if you don't want discussion then.
Comment has been collapsed.
I agree with you. I was spanked on a night out and called a slut for wearing jeans and a t-shirt.
Nobody stepped in and I was glad because it would have cause violence. I walked away annoyed and that was it. Nobody was harmed. I'd rather get called a slut etc than have a man hospitalised because he was trying to change someone's head
Comment has been collapsed.
Speaking up against something doesn't need to turn to violence. I never said to go up to the guys and start bashing their heads in??
Comment has been collapsed.
Do you think that a guy who openly and publicly spanked a girl.... would be like "Oh cool mate you said to never do that so I'll just go off and be Mr Nice Guys
No that guy would have got aggressive because you pointed out his wrong doing and now he has to protect his manhood
Comment has been collapsed.
Speaking as someone who deals with this sort of a thing on a nearly daily basis - due to my sometimes unpleasant line of work - yes, most people do stop when you point out what they're doing and tell them it's wrong. They may not always be nice about it, but I've only had it reach what I would consider a level of outright "violence" on a handful of occasions.
More often than not, I can get them to stop with a simple tap on the shoulder and a scowl of disapproval. The people who do those sorts of things, in my personal experience, tend to be cowards themselves, and are easily cowed when one or more people observing their actions express any sort of disapproval. Often, not looking foolish to others is more important than their masculinity.
There are always exceptions, however, and that requires good judgment to know when you're helping and when you're making matters worse.
Comment has been collapsed.
Exactly... When you get catcalled or insulted etc if you just ignore it most likely that idiot will just let it go without a second thought.
But when someone steps in that guy will take it as a threat to his manhood, he will most likely get violent and beat the crap out of that stranger trying to help you just to prove his worth and manliness to his group.
I really don't get it why Fyantastic suggests people risking their lives for random strangers here.
Comment has been collapsed.
I honestly can't believe there are so many people that wouldn't do anything. I'm shocked.
But whatever. Let's accept that harassment of women is commonplace and do not a damn thing about it. Let's accept it as a reality, because we're afraid we might get our asses kicked.
Good job team. I'm absolutely proud of all of you.
Comment has been collapsed.
I guess people you've met were always somewhat educated, understanding and reasonable, so trying or correct their disgusting behavior especially when they are with their stupid group of friends always did wonders.
Regardless of what I would do, I actually don't suggest people stepping in if they won't be able to handle a violent situation which will be coming right after.
Comment has been collapsed.
I got told to get thicker skin. So I ignore it. I would rather ignore it and move on than cry about it and have a stranger step in and do what... "oh mate don't do that"
Women should get thicker skin. There are bad people in the world. We don't and won t ever live in a perfect society. Deal with it
Comment has been collapsed.
It is the same for guys to be honest.. If a guy responds to every insult or whoever tries to pick a fight with him, he will most likely end up either dead or in prison.
Comment has been collapsed.
One time there were two guys fighting on a night out and I was quite drunk and stepped in. I went right in the middle of them and pushed my hands against their chest. I was extremely lucky nothing happened to me and they were two decent guys with a big of drink in them.
Later I sat with one of the guys best friend who bought me a drink and he said I was a very silly but brave girl and to promise I'd never do something like that again.
I'm trying not to be sexist here but... what if they was a guy stepping in. I don't think it would have went as smooth as it went with a little 18 year old girl at the time
Comment has been collapsed.
I stepped in to stop a fight between 2 guys at high school, I got a random punch to my face when I wasn't expecting it, got 3 stitches as a result.
One of my uncles got stabbed while trying to stop a fight in the street, died from bleeding...
So yeah... I don't suggest doing it.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh god I'm so sorry to hear about your Uncle. My step dad almost got stabbed at the throat with the end of a beer bottle for trying to protect his sister from a man who was trying to chat her up. Ended up getting his eye stabbed and was lucky he didn't go blind in one eye
Comment has been collapsed.
Thanks.. I don't really remember much about him, he wasn't very close and died when I was little. As far as I know one of the guys had a doner knife, a big knife they use to cut doner kebab you probably know it. He got stabbed, took a taxi to go to the hospital himself and lost too much blood on the way.
If I should suggest something to people, who will ever try to stop a fight, think of it as if you are actually in the fight and try to protect yourself. Because when you step in between 2 angry guys, you are at the most vulnerable position also you don't expect the violence directed at yourself thinking you are just helping them...
You were indeed lucky that nothing happened to you there, don't do it again please.
Comment has been collapsed.
Close or not my condolences are still there. Yeah I know the one and that's horrible. There are some fucked up people in the world. Which is why I'd avoid shit that doesn't involve me.
Yeah exactly I was extremely lucky. The fact they were drunk as well didn't help me. Any body reading this if you solo try to break up a fight then you are an idiot. I don't care how muscular or trained you are. Unexpected knives or guns can kill you or be a great danger. If it's a few people then fine go ahead and break it up and drag them away.
Protect yourself before others. Selfish or not I value my own life and my families before anyone.
Thank you Shindo. I promise I'll never do it again. I was stupid and I'm lucky I came out unharmed
Comment has been collapsed.
In these cases it's always a clash of passion and logic. I'd like to think that most people don't see these kinds of things and feel absolutely nothing, but rather that they feel the urge to help but don't feel capable, appropriate, or think better of it due to experience. That may be naive of me, and people definitely prioritise their own interests, but I like to think that typically isn't just out of apathy or lethergy.
It rarely seems to be a conscious and logical choice to step in, but rather that empathy overrode their judgement. As much as I would love to think of myself as a moral person, I have to reconcile that with propriety and make a snap judgement, because these situations usually heat up, boil over and cool off pretty quickly on their own (Do they want assistance? Would it be patronising if I did? Do I have a proper grip of the actual situation? Would I just be acting holier-than-thou?), not to mention the natural anxiety factor of being the acting party. Catcalling is a broad term that crosses over with things as inconsequential as the harmless social faux pas of well-meaning people, and goes all the way down to conscious attempts to intimidate in a public space while keeping doubt on your side enough to avoid legal trouble. Situations where the harassment is more than a brief bout of assholery are thankfully super rare here, but as I keep having to remind myself, Steamgifts (and social justice issues) cross a ton of borders, so the severity and frequency can vary massively. I wonder if it might be better served if there was a term to seperate the merely annoying social fuck-ups of catcalling from the more sinister and direct aspect. Just calling it 'verbal abuse' or 'harassment' doesn't really encapsulate the situation properly, and if it's such a frequent occurrence in certain countries, finding a cleaner cut name might serve all interests better.
Anyway, to bring my sloppy babbling garbage around, sometimes doing the 'right' thing isn't always the 'correct' thing in terms of resolving an incident, and the focus should be on limiting harm in whatever form as the priority. Shaming and de-normalising the creeper bullshit is the optional secondary. The major clash here is one group simply cannot stomach the holding pattern and are consumed with passion to finally iron out the douchebags, and the other group is more concerned with optimal damage control and getting on with life.
I can't really say either is better than the other. If it's such a big issue in certain locales that it's so frequently reoccurring, then having a powerful reaction to the subject is natural and should be expected, but at the same time with all the bullshit that people are forced to begrudgingly endure in day to day life, I can also appreciate the "shikata ga nai" mentality of just wanting to get through life day by day. The issue is that both sides can't stand the righteous anger and the self-preserving apathy of each other respectively.
Maybe my indecision makes me a dirty peacenik, and no doubt I'm gonna get some default blacklists for falling into the "agnostic poverty" trap, but I can't honestly look at either group here and say you're totally in the wrong. I suppose I don't have to deal with even the 'easy mode' catcall crap even on a monthly basis, so I can't really claim to have a proper scale of appreciation. Sellfishness is not necessarily a bad thing, but I suppose it depends on how far self preservation goes, eventually it starts to encroach on the ideal of civil duty, which is where the shitstorm seems centered.
Comment has been collapsed.
The issue is that both sides can't stand the righteous anger and the self-preserving apathy of each other respectively.
Goes for most human disagreements, doesn't it?
Comment has been collapsed.
True enough, though in cases like these it accelerates pretty fast. I suppose we should count our blessings because at least this subject is something worth getting worked up about, whether or not you feel it's a false-alarm subject or not.
(PS : Pharah is overpowered. Bioshock was boring. Piracy is not turbo-evil. Trump is comedic old british slang for 'fart'.)
:ducks:
Comment has been collapsed.
I was spanked on a night out and called a slut for wearing jeans and a t-shirt
FWIW this would most certainly have gotten a reaction from me. Then again I don't know the details of the situation and even if I did I'm probably too unfamiliar with these kinds of circumstances to be able to properly evaluate the severity of the situation at hand.
Comment has been collapsed.
Me and a few of my friends were in a night club. I walked off the dance floor and went to the toilet. As I walked past a guy he turned around and hit my arse. I turned around and gave him a dirty look and kept walking.
If anybody said any thing who knows what would have happened. That man could have been carrying a knife which is common for people to get stabbed in Scotland
Comment has been collapsed.
Even reading about it makes me irrationally angry. Posting something like this would probably have been more efficient for raising awareness and getting sympathy then jumbling it up with ridiculous stuff like equating words with violence and hitting people with hammers.
Comment has been collapsed.
I know but you can't change who made the thread. I would make one but I've stopped making them and just comment
Talking about personal experience over sacacasm brings objectivity to a subject. Examples trumps all and makes a discussion more real and effective
Comment has been collapsed.
That's how most of these threads turn into. You're wrong and we are right. Wasted my time with the pirate thread and now this. I never learn
Comment has been collapsed.
Pirate thread? Seems like I've missed something entertaining. Although maybe that's for the best considering how my mood keeps plummeting the more I read. Strangely enough, I've never been one to stop and look at traffic accidents but these kinds of things fascinate me to no end.
Comment has been collapsed.
Oh, that one. Seem like I've already involved myself to some lesser extent. I've probably missed the more juicy parts though lol
Edit: Wasn't that bad imho. It's weird with comments on your Steam profile though. I've never had that happen to me but I guess it's related to the recurring phenomenon of trying to conflate the kind of giveaways I'm making with the discussion at hand.
Comment has been collapsed.
In germany, this means you end up beaten to death by a bunch of foreign teens.
This is a statement. You're saying that If you speak up against violence, it will result in death. This is what this means. There is no "possibility" in the front of end. It's a definite.
Which pissed me off because it's dramatic and inaccurate. Could it possibly turn into a violent situation that could result in death? Sure. Would it be likely? Probably not.
Comment has been collapsed.
Fuck it. Do nothing and hope that the harassment someday ends because we don't have the balls to stand up for what is right.
Comment has been collapsed.
News from today, sorry it's in spanish but just watch the video and you will understand.
If you want to live, evade the conflicts (that doesn't make you a coward), being an hero means nothing if you are dead.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'd say I can guess the country, but considering 17 of the 20 most murderous countries are south of the US border (Africa has always at least half a dozen wars going on, yet the Americas are more dangerous than a war zone), the article being Spanish pretty much rules out only Brazil.
Comment has been collapsed.
As the page is rather hard to access without workarounds, maybe reporting the numbers or posting screenshots would aid readers.
(And of course that it's in German doesn't make it easier for a conversation in English, as far as it goes beyond numbers)
Comment has been collapsed.
So unless someone in fear of physical abuse or even for their life doesn't speak up against giving possibly unwanted attention to strangers they are cowards?
Comment has been collapsed.
Comment has been collapsed.
Recklessness: utterly unconcerned about the consequences of some action; without caution; careless, lack of regard for the danger or consequences of one's actions
If you act like that, it will just lead to violence and it isn't going to fix anything, people like these aren't going to say "sorry, you are right, I'm not going to cat call never again", they will try to beat or (if you are lucky) just ignore you.
If you want to change something, you have to change the law, and that's not a job for mere citizens, doing justice 1 by 1 isn't going to fix the problem.
Comment has been collapsed.
I would also argue that these people wouldn't follow the law either... Incidences of rape has increased and that is also illegal...
Comment has been collapsed.
You can expect some people to break the law, we are 7 billions of humans after all.
Enforce the law, give an equivalent punishment to the crime, and teach them why they should stop doing whatever they were doing.
Comment has been collapsed.
thanks for that, but i usually don't encourage people to speak up because i know they will get in more trouble, unless they are in a position of power (like they are 3 vs 1 catcaller).
gonna remove my last comment, it was stupid
Comment has been collapsed.
This is the solution. I never understood how people could watch things happening that they morally disagreed with, but never had the courage to stand up and say something.
.
we need to be proactive in dealing with the problem.
I'm glad I read this (and subsequent comments), because I couldn't agree more (and disagree with some of them). I see so many people saying "ignore it", "don't get involved", "don't say anything!" and all I can think about are all the times people did get involved throughout history and things did change ...and conversely, times throughout history when no one would step up.
Suppose no one fought for a woman's right to vote? Or to abolish slavery? Or to end racism? Or to end the Nazi threat? Or more recently, to fight a war on terrorism? I've seen many people say "don't be a hero", but it doesn't take a hero to raise awareness, so that others may band together who aren't necessarily "heroes" and put an end to a problem in the world. It doesn't take a hero to say "hey don't be an asshole!" - it can be as simple as a group of people standing up, showing strength in numbers, and fighting back against something they believe is wrong in the world.
I'm good friends with a lot of people in law enforcement, and they will themselves tell you they're not heroes - and when they come across something they can't handle alone, the first thing they do is call for more police officers. And that's what this thread is about - raising awareness so that possibly, the next time this happens, there will be more people willing to say something about it, to band together and put an end to it. Too many people are busy looking at all the details to see the big picture here, so caught up in details and excuses that they're unwilling to step up and make a change, not only in themselves, but in the world around them.
And sometimes it doesn't take courage even. Sometimes it just takes enough people being fed up with something to affect a change in the world. Average people. Every day people. But when every day people don't or won't step up? Nothing gets accomplished.
Mully stepped up. I'm proud of her. I'm also proud of you, Fyan (not that it probably means much) for what you've said here. With more people, problems like this can be a thing of the past.
And to those who aren't willing to step up? Then step the fuck aside for those who are.
Comment has been collapsed.
Since you are the last mod who commented on this thread I'm asking you a question that has been on my mind for a while, if that's okay: Why is it possible to blacklist someone on SG and deny them entry on your own GAs, but not possible to put people on some sort of ignore list? Personally I don't use such lists anyway and can think of enough disadvantages, but if two people just can't get along and can't help picking a fight at every opportunity this is the best possible solution I can think of. I mean, GAs usually are not that controversial and you may still exclude people randomly while within the discussions an incredible amount of feuds is going on without any interruption. I'm just curious if there's a specific reason for this (like "cg is the biggest fan of self-responsibility" or something like that :D).
Comment has been collapsed.
While I would generally agree with the sentiment that these things don't go away on their own, I also feel that being gung-ho about these things is the wrong way. Being the charged subject that it is, it's only natural that this fractured into black and white thinking, but catcalling isn't a cut and dry issue in itself. The severity of any instance, the number of participants, etc, all have to be factored in. It's definitely something that needs to be dealt with but it's much like the whole prospect of someone who doesn't know how to swim jumping into a river to save someone from drowning. It's easy to be fired up about the subject, especially with the usual cretins making fly-by posts just to antagonise (not talking about the dissenters in this thread chain), but if it's the kind of catcalling where violence is an immediate possibility, the person encountering it from the outside has to be careful too.
Any act of hostility or gross incivility should naturally be challenged, but with due caution shown. It always comes down to a judgement call unless the situation has a clear path (such as onlookers having the advantage of numbers, being in a public place where people can intervene if things get out of hand when you step in, etc). This is of course talking about catcalling of the worst kind, where it is borderline coercion or thinly veiled threats.
I totally get why you're fired up when their counterpoint is done in the usual flippant style that the intellectual fallacies are dropped in, especially if you have any familiarity in the subject (who doesn't get fired up when they have personal encounters to draw upon?), but this got tilted over the edge when it got into outright and flatly calling cowardice. There's history here, opposing ideologues, and it's no big stretch to recognise the participants have respectively had to deal with some shit-eating mentality in past discussions that is fuelling this... but it might be worth taking a step back for a breather here.
I'm not trying to put you on blast here so sorry if my tone comes across patronising (a flaw I'm sorely aware of :s), but as a moderator, the power dynamic and trust situation is tilted a little here, and accusations of cowardice for preferring caution is really dancing a certain line y'know? I agree with your sentiment overall but at that point it's just letting your passion overrule your better judgement. Your drive is understandable but I fear you may be caught up in the heat of the moment right now.
Comment has been collapsed.
Why not do what a friend of mine does when she's feeling bothered by unwanted attention? She tells them to knock it off and if they don't listen she kicks their ass.
Comment has been collapsed.
What a noble cause you fight for. Sorry that you, and many other people, had to go through such a horrible experience. May things get better with time.
Have a bump!
Comment has been collapsed.
victims: Please stop bothering us about our looks
perpetrator: stop taking away my rights, if you don't like it don't go there, don't act like that, don't wear that, don't be upset about what we yell at you, don't tell us what to do or not to do.
Wow, how much the "receiving" end wants, just incredible. How they dare.
Comment has been collapsed.
Also I just want to mention that I never been a victim of street harassment, so it's safe to assume it doesn't exist. Stupid people, next time they'll try to tell me Formula 1 races are real, while they are only in the TV.
I think my daily quota of sarcasm is done
Comment has been collapsed.
Please don't make light of free speech like that :( You wouldn't want people policing your speech any more than you want people policing your thoughts. The freedom to disagree, criticise and even ridicule people is yours and mine to our benefits - and to the benefit of society as a whole.
So when you partake in the ridicule of a person or group of people (rightly so in this case, even if the hyperbole and construction of informal fallacies isn't really to my liking), but extend your ridicule to the very thing that is empowering you to do so, it conveys desperate bias, damaging group-think or irrationality. If your goal is for people to take your cause seriously, you'll respect the freedom of speech.
And yes, I'm aware that your more extreme opponents like to use freedom of speech as a means of pigeon-holing, but comments like this and those above are the same thing reversed. Hope I was able to convey that properly!
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't expect anything better in a patriarchal society. Also, to be honest, whenever a man gets catcalled by a woman, he doesn't really mind, at least most of the times. xD Obviously though, saying some nasty things and whistling, can't get you anywhere, but maybe it's a sign of power or something. Just don't expect anything to change without doing something about it first.
By the way, really nice FAQ. Make a trade FAQ too. >_>
Comment has been collapsed.
I think we're all equal, so I always support everyone. Now, I'm not sure why you're saying that, but I'm pretty sure you're not the brightest mind yourself on steamgifts. xD
Comment has been collapsed.
We're not all equal though and the reason I'm saying that is because what you posted is cringey nonsense.
Comment has been collapsed.
We are all equal. Just because some people think that some people are better than others, doesn't mean they're superior in any way. And my comment was perfectly fine - you were the one that just wanted to give a bullshit answer, just because you disagree with my comment. If you think you're superior than someone else in any way, then please go check yourself at the mirror once again.
Comment has been collapsed.
I always objected to the use of 'patriarchy', because it presumes masculinity as the cause. It's a misleading term given that the root is actually our culture as a whole, and that is fed by both sexes. Sort of like how even the most honest mens rights archetype will resort to using reductive gendered insults to refer to men (jabbing about virginity, chasing sex, etc) which runs directly counter to the idea that romantic conquest is a measure of value, or that men are sex obsessed. Or how even the staunchest of womens rights activists can resort to devaluing womens values if they don't align with their own rhetoric (it still baffles me how sex-negative feminists can even be a thing).
I get that we're still trying to uproot the last of the weeds from our past generations, but the vast majority of our issues are seated in mentalities that we reinforce in the present. When even our activists are accidentally self-sabotaging and often outright happy to bank in on cheap catharsis at expense of real progress, the use of another gendered term to summarise is going in the wrong direction. Even when used correctly, the usage of 'patriarchy' has been swallowed by the toxic social media trophy-taking retweet hordes and ended up turning into yet another landmine. Yeah I suppose maybe I'm hauling you aside on just some dumb technicality here, but damn do I ever hate the common usage of that term >:P
Grr! Arg?
Comment has been collapsed.
Unrelated observation: 'toxic' is 2017's 'vitriol'
Comment has been collapsed.
I dunno, I never really saw vitriol ever used, and vitriol is usually used when denoting something more active and intentional. Toxic includes passivity and cumulative things. I was more a fan of 'poisonous' before 'toxic' got edged towards buzzwordiness.
Something tells me the point just whiffed over my head :3c
Comment has been collapsed.
And now, there's white men everywhere flooding the forum and doing shitty jokes about harassment because they need attention ...
Sigh
Comment has been collapsed.
Careful. You're in the process of falling down the slippery slope of racism. You still have time to re-evaluate your thoughts.
Comment has been collapsed.
So it's "racist" just because he said it's "white" men? Oh, hallelujah, what a time to be alive. I feel like these days no one even knows what that word actually means anymore. It's just thrown out whenever possible.
Comment has been collapsed.
No there is a very clear racial animosity thrown out there so casually. It's thanks to white men with the genius and endeavour to create the infastructure for the internet and amazing inventions like computers that you're using so show some gaddamn respect.
Comment has been collapsed.
Maybe so but that has nothing to do with the original comment? I'm all for calling out things by what they are but that message was nowhere near racist. We aren't even talking about superiority of races here at all.
Comment has been collapsed.
I was with you on the casual racism thing, right up until you decided to add in an overused bait just to antagonise. It'd be real swell if people would just decide whether they want to improve things or just say "fuck you". Mixing them together just makes a shitty slurry that is neither porridge nor pizza.
Don't you dare even talk about porridge pizza. I will fight you IRL, with all of my argh.
Comment has been collapsed.
Focus on the action which is objectionable, and not a presumption of guilt by denomination (confirmation bias, passive racism). If you pay attention, the participants are varied. Skin and genitalia don't confer a hivemind.
Be mindful to not become the demon you think you see.
Comment has been collapsed.
Don't know which bunghole you live, what time/place you were at, which specific kind of guy that
followed you ... but it sounds more like you dodged a rape bullet by peppering that asshole.
Following someone is way beyond cat calling ... shouldn't come as a surprise if the rapey demographic will also ogle/stare like
crazy and catcall. If it were for me i'd shank/bash those fuckers on the spot ... but sadly thats not how the game works.
Only time i felt harassed by a woman was some deranged fat hijab wearing slob in the bus ... sitting right in front of me (summer) ...
the savage grabs a yogurt out of its bag and starts eating it in a lets say very very suggestive way while giving me weird looks.
No biggie - would've sat somewhere else if i'd had "pussied out" ... those thick and bushy eyebrows though - hauntingly disgusting.
Not even funny though what some countries in Europe have started to do resort to (Sweden - Europistans rape capital). The specific rapey demography/ethnicity however is blatantly clear - predominantly Arabs/African and ideology/culture-wise "not-really-Muslims" Muslims.
Comment has been collapsed.
There was a video referenced earlier in the thread that got some media attention a few years ago. It's the 'walking in NY as a woman' video that got parodied and repeated in other places. What the NY video showed was numerous non whites following and slobbering all over this girl and the solitary white man in the video tips his hat and gives her a courteous 'm'lady'. The difference in behaviour was so stark that various mainstream outlets started to get twitchy worried people might notice clear and observable differences so they ran articles questioning whether the video was racist.
Comment has been collapsed.
The race card ... when the statistics and reality are shouting at the top of their lungs a different tale. By no means should anyone
get lumped collectively - but i don't feel like a pedophile when some christian-priest-scum is being hanged by the balls and with it Christianity called out > have at it. Any malignant vermin regardless of race, ethnicity, culture is to be corrected and addressed accordingly.
Much like whites aren't offended by the stats knowing (east) Asians aren't only doing better in academia, but are also less represented in most crimes than them. In a nutshell - fuck people and let them be offended ... as their feelings don't count for shit - the law and decent citizens capable to discern and unwilling to be bamboozled do. Also the dimwits, that claim "human subspecies" aka physical and mental differences/archetypes commonly referred as "race" don't exist.
e.:
Almost forgot ... this masterpiece of degeneracy - which is beyond revolting.:
Rotherham sex abuse: Shock report reveals 1400 children were sexually exploited over 16-year period
"several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist".
2016 - us crimestats by race
Comment has been collapsed.
Just to be clear to you and those in this sub-thread. It's nothing to do with race and more to do with circumstances surrounding culture. Forming negative opinions of people based upon physical features is called discrimination; and discriminating against a group of unrelated people based upon their physical similarities is most commonly racism.
Is there a problem with some number of people of cultures from backward areas of the planet? I'd say yes. Does that mean all similarly looking people share the same problems. No.
This might be obvious to some, but it bears repeating for others.
And to be extra clear, I'm not saying it was anyone's intention to convey or endorse any kind of discrimination, but the blunt way of expressing yourselves might be misconstrued by others and then reinforce existing (irrational) biases.
Personally, I believe the charts of higher crime rates of certain ethnicities are missing extra data. It doesn't take income and social circumstances into account. There are more correlations than race alone, and the effort should probably go into those other directions instead of focusing on such a red herring.
Comment has been collapsed.
Culture doesn't just appear out of a vacuum. Culture is a reflection of the people who create it. That's why your assertion that it has nothing to do with race is objectively wrong.
You also don't understand what race is
"Does that mean all similarly looking people share the same problems"
Race isn't just how you look even though we use those physical characteristics to quickly identify who people are in our day to day dealings.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well our cultures produce rapists, murderers, psychopaths, thieves and paedophiles too. Our culture has also been responsible for mass genocide and war same as other cultures. I guess those things are a reflection of me as a white man.
All people and groups of people are capable of the most terrible things. All people and groups of people are capable of the most wonderful things. To assume otherwise without confirmation of individuals is prejudice.
I'm using race in the way everyone uses it in the modern age: A physically distinctive collection of people. And that's all I was talking about; physical distinction vs culture.
Anyway, I don't take issue with the facts and I'm one of the people that agree there are deep problems in certain cultures and societies. I just think you're getting sucked into prejudice because it's easier and more primitive.
Comment has been collapsed.
It doesn't take income and social circumstances into account.
Yeah ... if you'd care you could look up the stats for those as well how income poorer whites still commit less crimes than blacks with higher income. At least from what i've seen in American crime stats. Pretty simple - shit ideals and culture ... might take forever to "fix" that.
any kind of discrimination
Discrimination isn't only whats necessary to discern the scum from somewhat working out society. Discrimination is what makes
you distinguish between many thing - e.g. your race among those (whites or whatever) and another species one lets say dogs - woohohoo "discrimination so evil".
focusing on such a red herring.
misconstrued by others and then reinforce existing (irrational) biases.
Of course lets disregard the the most obvious and forget about that healthy prejudice/bias/reality proven stereotypes that keep people "instinctively" from harm/danger - the ministry of truth & TV-news-bullshit will tell us their adapted tale. All are equal ... and every things roses and sunshine if you aren't a misconstrued/biased "racis". That's why everyone who can afford it in "multicultural enriched" societies lives in gated communities, with fancy fences around their one or many properties ("me home is me castle") and sends their kids to private schools.
Does that mean all similarly looking people share the same problems.
Congrats we agreed on something. - "By no means should anyone get lumped collectively - but ..."
Getting along isn't the highest order - it always should be securing the most prosperous future and to contribute something.
Comment has been collapsed.
What you're doing is known as confirmation bias. That article you linked reiterates what I did: it's more complex than you want to admit. This is why I compounded income with other social circumstances. My point was that it's not the race that's the problem, it's culture and social circumstances. It's those things that should be addressed. I mean, the fact that not every individual part of some ethnicity - not even a majority - is a criminal straight up proves my point.
Yes, discrimination doesn't have to be negative if we're talking about definitions without context. But there was context to what I was saying and you understood it; you knew what I meant. I was talking about harmful prejudice.
And my point was that it's not healthy prejudice. Just as believing that straight white men are all scum is not healthy prejudice. Just as believing that anyone that greets you on the street is a rapist is not healthy prejudice. If you believe in one of these things, you're isomorphic to all of them.
Though I agree with you that it's fine to be cautious when dealing with people of certain backgrounds. For example, I read something heartbreaking the other week, and it leaves me as cautious of homeless people or those dependent on drugs as ever. It's unfortunately the world we live in. But I do know that most homeless people are not this evil and many have just lost their jobs or been kicked out of their home. And I also know that if I just read bad, shocking news all day, my perception of reality is going to be skewed. Same as if I just surround myself with people with similarly skewed perceptions - then it gets even worse and descends into zealotry (like we've all see with the extreme social justice left in recent times, or extreme right of history).
You have to get on with people because you rely on people to sustain yourself. The better you can cooperate with people, the more prosperous you can be. On the flip side, you can go the exploitation route, but that is not prosperity for everyone then, and I don't think it's what you were talking about.
Anyway, I hope I said something thought-provoking for someone!
Comment has been collapsed.
My point was that it's not the race that's the problem, it's culture and social circumstances.
I mean, the fact that not every individual part of some ethnicity - not even a majority - is a criminal straight up proves my point.
That is a funny way to spell: the facts don't matter when their being reiterated by someone "racis".
The only thing it proves you're biased as well ... at least mine is founded/includes upon facts and not "oh but culture and circumstance" opinion - that is an insult to the people who manage despite the odds. There can't be a special treatment
... anyhow, good for you, that you're only partially delusional.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm not presenting alternative facts, nor insulting those that manage to overcome worse odds - it's more a compliment.
What I am saying is that I don't think white people are inherently superior as you're trying to push, and that I believe your facts lack all the dimensions and data.
Is the Sun a circle of light that travels across the sky? Yeah, you look up and see that. But actually, it's a sphere of hot plasma and we're the ones moving and rotating. Then you might be forgiven for thinking the Sun is stationary when you learn this, but no, it's moving through interstellar space along with the rest of our solar System. I'd argue that it's delusional to believe to understand complex things from superficial data. I take this approach with most things in life, which is why, for example, I don't subscribe to any particular religion.
Oh well.
Comment has been collapsed.
white people are inherently superior as you're trying to push
Yeah ... except the topic is about the chance of getting "fucked" by XY ... and i made it in my first post clear (east) Asians are superior to whites in that regard - less likely to engage in crime also better in academia (aka usually have a higher IQ, lower testosterone - a massive "chimp-out" factor) maybe not EQ though, which is why they weren't exactly more successful throughout history than relentless/devout and nowadays partial suicidal whites. No worries though, the white lineage as far as reproduction is concerned, is fucked. At least the Chinese might ensure a future that resembles civilization. As for mixed people - good luck figuring as most, (est. 85%+) copulate within their own sapien subgroup (race).
I'd argue that it's delusional to believe to understand complex things from superficial data.
I take this approach with most things in life, which is why, for example, I don't subscribe to any particular religion.
You see, things might be very complicated - as for this topic, hold your horses it ain't rocket science.
The logical thing to do is to rationalize based on empirical data ... oh and no worries your identity wasn't questioned.
pic related
Comment has been collapsed.
Asian master race. If you see an asian person, please give up your seat, hold the door open, kneel in their presence, give up your woman and bow to their superior intellect. You're not worthy! It's biological fact based on intensive study comparing the brains and bodies of the races of Earth. Nature vs Nurture? Nature wins.
Now, come, release your sovereignty to asian super powers. It's in your best interest.
Comment has been collapsed.
Now your getting slightly cocky and hyperbolic, not sure i like that ... thought this was reserved for my replies. Oh well, at least we agree on something - mind over body. Reproduction is clearly not a matter of worthiness, but one of many factors, nature, culture and willingness to reproduce, without second thoughts, career regrets or whatever the case may be - being easy going or dumb as dirt also helps. The Chinese are at least aware of the danger, just google China + Islam or Muslim and witness a smack-down it in its infancy.
Nature vs Nurture? Nature wins.
Downright amusing - as it is natures fault and nurture its partner in crime.
Comment has been collapsed.
Haha, I agree with that. You can't just import a conflicting culture en mass and expect perfect assimilation; it's lunacy. But here, again, there is a distinction between physical race and culture. Lots of people can be assimilated, obviously. And I think most people have the potential to, but if you import huge amounts of people from that conflicting culture, you create a subculture that is at odds with the main culture instead of being in harmony with it.
The longer a conflicting subculture exists, the more people will simplify (out of fear) until perfectly respectable, innocent and assimilating people are lumped in with those that aren't fitting into your society, which makes the subculture absorb more people and grow because the superculture starts discriminating.
If everyone understood that when you do nothing but speak negatively about a broad group of people, you're really talking about a problematic subculture, part of society or even a minority of people, then it would be fine. But that's not really how it goes, so I only commented here to provide clarification.
If you want an example of what I'm talking about that has nothing to do with immigration and race - to show that it's not limited in scope to that and therefore is more than that - then just look at the crazy modern feminism that exists. Are there moderate feminists that don't stink of prejudice and know not to be sucked into it? Yes. Are there crazy feminists that hate men and think they're all sexual predators and out to keep them down? Yes. Do these crazy ones influence others and create more of themselves that get more and more extreme over time in some cases? Yes.
And just so you recall, I'm not saying you don't recognise this, my original comment was an addition to bear in mind for everyone, so there's none of that influence that spawns extremists.
Or, you know, make way for the Chinese in the interest of prosperity. White people are too self-destructive to be their equals :}
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, that way of viewing it certainly more nuanced than i would've expected.
I think i'm done, have nothing to add - read ya in another controversial topic. :-)
Comment has been collapsed.
"Personally, I believe the charts of higher crime rates of certain ethnicities are missing extra data. It doesn't take income and social circumstances into account."
You can believe that but that's all it will be - a belief. The facts and figures specifically show blacks are still considerably more criminal despite having higher incomes than low income whites.
Comment has been collapsed.
Pretty much ... in fact, whats partially lumped in as whites are mestizos, some Asian and other light tanned individuals ...
but it doesn't even matter, the greater picture is already drawn and as evident as it could get.
Comment has been collapsed.
Bump, thanks for this post. Though I have to say you're brave to post this in a generic gaming community like SG, the misogyny and toxic attitudes usually run high in these places.
Comment has been collapsed.
they aren't really many users that fall in that category, just a handful that are very vocal as it usually happens with these things. ^^
Comment has been collapsed.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/meet-catch-and-keep/201405/do-nice-guys-really-finish-last
Be respectful and treat people in a good way, but be careful.
Comment has been collapsed.
meow !
Sorry, that's the first time I read the word "catcall", I had to joke about it. For the topic: of course you're right, as a matter of fact, some men are self-ignorant barbarians
Comment has been collapsed.
i feel like you touched on a possible solution with your comment on how you dres, also target audience...doubt anyone on SG is catcalling you. Never understood this myself...never understood any of the millenial problems come to think about it. WHat you should do though is get a couple of your friends together dress in like construction looking clothes and very awkwardly catcall men in areas you frequently get catcalled. See where im goin with this? Post video in this thread for LAWLS.
Comment has been collapsed.
Here's something It was supposed to end at the same time as the rest, but I messed up T_T
Comment has been collapsed.
π Giveaways (moved to top for convenient leeching π):
If you want to share giveaways, please use this template:
copy everything inside the ` (even the opening/closing `grave accents`), edit and and paste it in your reply
Please use the format provided above! It's easier for me to copy-paste multiple giveaways in this thread. π€
It will take me a few days to update the list. To avoid having your giveaway not "showcased" set its duration to more than 5 days (unless you don't care, it's up to you).
Because I'm tired of getting catcalled and watching others in the street receive the same treatment, I decided to share some information with everyone in SG hoping that they can stop doing it and/or talk to their friends to make them reconsider their behavior.
Street harassment is unwanted and unwelcomed public attention, most often directed at women, which is demeaning and damaging. Itβs not a private matter but one that should concern everyone.
If you have trouble empathising with strangers, then think about your mother, sister, or girlfriend. Would you enjoy watching people catcalling and telling them nasty things? How do you think they would feel about it?
On an average day I go out twice and I get at least one guaranteed catcall. On weekends or when I go out, for example to a club, it gets worse because groups of people feel more empowered to do so.
A few months ago I was walking with a friend and one guy said things and started to follow us. After a while it ended with me turning around and pepper-spraying his face, then running away in case he could fight back. This is the kind of violence it generates.
We had a rough rest of the day and were shaken up. I didn't enjoy doing that at all, but he had to be stopped. I also like to think the guy didn't enjoy it either.
So in the end, what did he achieve? Nothing.
Edit
OK, I'm gonna clear this up since some people like to assume things just to blame me for defending myself.
For the backward people, this was in june when I wasn't wearing "provocative shorts and t-shirts" clothes. These are the "nice compliments" I got amongst others i don't even want to repeat here and/or I want to forget:
hey girl nice butt
does your friend wanna F with me too?
hey reply bitch
come here lesbos!
GONNA EAT YOUR ASS
Walked one block with that guy which was 1 meter away from us. He wasn't shouting from the other side of the street, he wasn't half a block away, he wasn't sitting in the sidewalk. He was right behind us.
He got warned to leave us alone during the whole 1-block fast-paced walk. I didn't stop to "discuss" because I'm not a 1.9 meters 120kg guy, so I'm not putting my friend and I at risk at 8:30pm in the street.
You read the "You're not alone" thread?
Well, most of the stuff that I shared about me is linked directly to an experience related to this, but I wasn't walking with a friend and there were two guys instead of one following me. You can guess what happened next since I wasn't able to defend myself.
But of course, street harassment is harmless and nothing else can go wrong, nor it can trigger unhappy memories from past experiences.
Think a bit before judging others so quickly assuming they overreact when they feel in danger.~
I know I probably won't convince anyone catcalling to stop by posting this (it doesn't hurt to try), but if your friends or co-workers do it, you can persuade or talk to them and see if they get it. There's nothing worse than being in a group of friends and allowing them to act like idiots.
It's disgusting and demeaning, stop it. You're hurting people with your actions and makes you look like a fool.
β€οΈοΈ FAQ, in case you're gonna post one of these comments I get all the time.
- But some women like to be catcalled!
Yes, there's also men that like to get hit in the face with a hammer. So using the same logic, I should go out and hit all men with a hammer in hopes they enjoy it?
- Don't be so sensitive, ignore it.
No, it reaches a point it can't be ignored. It's not an isolated issue once per month or in certain situations so you can avoid it. It also affects me a lot depending on my mood, so when you feel like crap and you get catcalled, things get worse.
- So you want others to come to your rescue when some stranger catcalls you? That will end up with me getting in a fight!
I'm not asking people to fight for me, just them to stop doing it, spread the word, and discourage people in their group of friends from being disrespectful.
- If you don't want to get catcalled, dress appropriately!
1: Don't blame the victim.
2: I dress as I please. It's my body, not someone else's.
3: It doesn't matter if it's winter and I'm wearing a jacket, or summer with shorts and a t-shirt. Some people will be idiots anyway and say things.
- I bet you like it when a handsome guy catcalls you!
Irrelevant. I expect respect from everyone.
- What about men? They also get harassed!
I'm very aware guys also get harassed by both men and women, but this thread is about girls. Feel free to create another thread for that issue, and I will support it.
- So this is just a misandrist rant!
It's not. If you feel targeted by anything I said, then it's not because you're a man, it's because you actions ressemble what it's said here.
- Meh, it could be worse.
It could be worse, but it SHOULD be better. Also, normalizing this behavior makes it even more painful for victims.
- Women also catcall!
I never said they don't, but for each woman that catcalls me, i get 500 guys. So the issue at hand is the one I shared.
- This thread offends me!
That tells a lot about you. Log off, take your time, and think about it.
- This thread is inappropriate for SG, please close and delete it!
Go tell that to all other threads about awareness, politics, religion, sports, disasters, etc.
π Some info and articles:
Stop Street Harassment
Wikipedia definition
Documenting women's stories of street harassment
Why we need to take street harassment seriously
Dutch woman faces down her catcallers by posting selfies with them
π Videos:
Au bout de la rue (Court-mΓ©trage) - france
10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman - usa
Woman is filmed walking London's streets for secret documentary - uk
Male actor dresses as woman to experience sexual harassment - egypt
Sons React to Their Moms Getting Catcalled - usa
π And some pictures:
Comment has been collapsed.