Hello everyone. I was a member of the <Pandora SG> group for a few months. A group where I was able to win games and give games away. First and foremost, I'd like to thank everyone who participated in my giveaways as well as the creators of the giveaways I participated in.

Recently, I had a problem with "PatchmaN" leader of <Pandora SG>. Indeed, I was publicly called a leecher, invited to be blacklisted and kicked from the group.
Link to publication: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/welcometopandorakid/announcements/detail/4015591039540197075

However, there are several things that bother me about this. First of all, I've given away a lot of games on this group, and while I've won some, I've also given some away... Here are a few screenshots showing the giveaways going on in this group I created:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2360518176475703077/7DE49923A4AC8A6854D9CE552AB1437D1DBD0882/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2360518176475703660/34F91DD0D326D0AFD12C693AA1AFB8A06801FD00/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2360518176475706609/2708FE2F6686113D335AECCDC53CB8901CE5E1E8/
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2360518176475709945/F74B4E41E93CC010AB80346246227059243B4371/

Then comes another problem, I was able to argue with the group leader, judging me by my gift value. Except that, as I was able to screen on his account, his value was quite negative:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161284267440095273/1206584793521717328/image.png?ex=65dc8aa8&is=65ca15a8&hm=35e2b6a59a4e1d3f03c27a9c2214f57410df1f7220932d92a92e9ada28ef995c&

And here's a list of his most recent games donated: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1161284267440095273/1206584626806788106/image.png?ex=65dc8a80&is=65ca1580&hm=544ea0a7d53f5ab564488b1f970dd789d8859e80c33efdd1fff6b5af405f3508&

So I'd like to understand why the leader doesn't respect his own rules, and also about defaming someone publicly?

I've got a lot more to say, but that'll do for now...

No worries for the people in my giveaway, even excluded from the group I'll give you the keys, because I'm not a leecher like this person said.

2 weeks ago

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I'm not familiar with this group specifically, but many have ratio rules. Either win or CV ratio. If a lot of your GAs were recently reduced in value, that would put you into the negative. Generally you'd be given an opportunity to correct this CV ratio, but since you got into an argument about it, obviously that didn't happen. As for leaders and rules, most won't kick themselves out of a group. Rules for thee.

2 weeks ago
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Without seeing your group stats it is hard to judge.

If a group's creator does not follow the rules of their own group, either the members care enough and leave the group, or the members don't care. Nothing to be done from outside the group.

My notes say, that you tried to sneak into Unlucky7 1.5 months ago, having 15 sent and 92 won. To me that is a clear sign that you either do not care to much for the rules of a group or that you did not understand them. Taking that into account, I am not surprised that another group kicked you.

2 weeks ago
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Hello Oppenh4imer,

Thank you for your reply. I don't have the exact stats any more (as I'm no longer in the group), but I can assure you that I've received around 200 games, given away 100 games (not counting those still in progress). Due to a price drop, my value went down, but I warned the administrator that it would go back up very quickly.

You know, I'm new to steamgifts, so it took me a while to understand the rules and the whole thing. Hence my mistake with "Unlucky7" and I apologize once again for wanting to join this group that I didn't understand.

In order to avoid any further errors, I've created a spreadsheet with the different rules to follow for each group, so as not to make any mistakes.

I hope I've reassured you about me, and I promise to be a better person every day.

2 weeks ago
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I took a look at their Steam page, and the number of wins seem fine. 2:1 which is the max they allow. The issue is that you're no longer level 6, and I assume your CV ratio went below the -$200 limit. It's unclear how far below, and there are others that have gone lower. The issue likely stems from the argument. The leader is at -$283, so -$83 below the -$200 limit. That seems fixable, and not egregious enough for anyone to complain about.

2 weeks ago
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As for level 6, it wasn't a problem as I joined without it. I was level 3-4 I don't remember.

Then as for my value, that was adjustable too, I bought over 100 games that I wanted to give away. I started the giveaways but I was excluded without having the time to do them all, and they're still ongoing...

2 weeks ago
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Yes, and while I don't know how the argument itself went, that is the most likely reason you weren't given a chance to fix the negative group CV.

2 weeks ago
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Yes that's it.. And him got the chance to...

2 weeks ago
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I bought over 100 games that I wanted to give away

I'll never get people doing something like that. Yeah, you can fool SGs CV system that way but don't you think that any group admin will figure out that you are delivering trash and that in large quantities?

It's absolutely legit that an admin considers you a leecher, even if your ratio should be within the requested ratiio limits. Gaming the rules can get you kicked out too.

2 weeks ago
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Thank you for your very intelligent reply. Obviously, you didn't look at the games I gave. Most of them, I'd even say almost all of them, come from bundles (as do most of the games given here) and are real games, not games for cheating on my CV.

Kind regards...

2 weeks ago
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Oh, sorry that you did get a possible explanation why you got kicked. You obviously only wanted to receive replies that the admin was wrong to kick you and I failed you. Terribly sorry.

And FYI: Bundled games can be cheap trash too. Yes, even if they are 'real' games.

2 weeks ago
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seems they are using a database catching stats, that is publicly visible to anyone
your stats as follows:

User created 105 giveaways (Total value of given away games: $899.0 Average game score: 81.5619047619 Average Num of reviews: 13687.647619)

if anyone is interested: http://www.sgmt.name:8080/SGMT/

select a group, a user and so on

2 weeks ago
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I dont know your stats on this group and can not check after you were already kicked. But as far I remember this group has rules about ratio and you need to do 1 GA over 10p (nor free) per month. General ratio on SG does not matter in this regard. I guess your actions was against these rules but I dont know that and this should be rather discused with him. And if even assuming you have been treated unfairly from my experience it is often better to move on (I had one ugly situation on discord with people active also on SG but situation was not related with SG) where one of owners spread total lies and false accusations (at first i though it was just misunderstanding but on the end I think it was on purpose for unknown reasons) and on the end it was just better to leave and move on and not lose time and nerves :). And this is my advice for you no matter if you are right or not.

2 weeks ago
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I followed the rules, unlike some people it seems... It's because of a price cut and a refusal to listen to reason on his part. Anyway, you're right, too bad for the group, and may this situation serve as a lesson to me not to get so involved in a group.

2 weeks ago
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Yea. It should serve as a lesson and not worth to be too emotional.

Ps. But I need to say that obeying rules but on the very edge of rules is not nice (as it looks like doing something on purpose). First of all if you on edge you can easily be outside this edge (several wins in a short time or price changes) and secondly it shows that someone is focused on maximum profit from the group not just winning and giving GA in the group (you can also imagine group with only rule about ratio 2:1 and if everyone on the group would like be on edge of ratios, it would mean dead group as no one would be making GA and waiting for GAs to win ;) ). In my opinion it would be fair as general rule try to maintain at last balance on such group :). .

2 weeks ago
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Sounds like a win for you as they can't enter your giveaways as well now. Or you would want buy games to people like that?

2 weeks ago
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That's right!

2 weeks ago
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Almost half your Steam library is from Steam Gifts wins. That alone would be a red flag in my opinion.

Pretty sure threads publicly calling out members on SG aren't allowed. It seems like ignoring rules or attempting to skirt them (by stocking up on penny games for g/a's to try to keep your ratios in check and waiting to mark games as received to control ratios, for example) might be the reason you were kicked from that group.

It's not like anyone here can solve your dispute anyway.

Just move on and take some time to catch up on your backlog.

2 weeks ago*
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May I ask how this is a red flag? As far as I know I create giveaways as I receive them, so I don't see the problem in winning games if I give some away too...

2 weeks ago
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That's not really true. If your contention is that your giveaways equal your wins, the numbers don't support this. Your total wins exceed your total giveaways, and the value of those games is also heavily slanted in favor of your wins. That is a sign of that someone is gaming the system. And it does seem as though your former group felt that way.

2 weeks ago
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Look, think what you want, but I create giveaways to try and maintain a balance. I don't game the system, so don't talk nonsense.

2 weeks ago
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Not liking what the actual numbers show is a you problem. Anyway, callout threads aren't allowed on SG. You might want to take it down before a mod hands you a time out. Good luck out there!

2 weeks ago
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We only have limited information, so why you were kicked is something only PatchmaN can definitely say. I'll go with a few things I've noticed:

  • Is it possible you missed some monthlies? Seems a bit harsh to be kicked for that though if everything else is okay so I doubt that was the reason.
  • You pointed out that he doesn't follow his own rules, your screenshots seem to be referring to his value difference as his gift difference is within the rules. A lot of people in a lot of groups have the same problem because of extreme price swings recently, I think this mainly affected asset flips. So I assume there's some leniency there for people to fix this.
  • You said your W/L is 200/100 which is precisely 0.50, which is the group's minimum ratio. Is it possible you were on/below that ratio for an extended period of time?
  • I also noticed that you purposefully avoided 'marking received' because of ratio reasons. So my best guess is that a combination of this and the previous point were the reasons you were kicked. But again, I work with limited information so nothing definite.
  • About being called out publicly: His post is meant for group members to be made aware that a non-group member might be still be in one of their giveaways. This is an effective method to reach all members.
2 weeks ago
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I also noticed that you purposefully avoided 'marking received' because of ratio reasons. So my best guess is that a combination of this and the previous point were the reasons you were kicked. But again, I work with limited information so nothing definite.

I am not sure if this could be considered "Misuse of Giveaway Feedback", which might lead to harsh consequence.

Edit: Seems I missed to click reply, therefore a deleted comment below...

2 weeks ago
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Just to be clear, I'm only hypothesizing here because of the limited information. I have no idea whether that played any part in this.

However, does it have to be against SG's rules for Steam groups to take action on something like that?

2 weeks ago
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No, groups can take action before.

I just experienced such cases in UL7 recently.
One actively switched received on and off, got a permanent suspension for it.
One "forgot" to mark several wins as received.

2 weeks ago
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Oh wait, maybe I misunderstood your point. Did you mean to say that that action could potentially have consequences here on SG as well?

2 weeks ago
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Yes.

2 weeks ago
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  • No.
  • Yes, I've had this problem with price drops, I was pretty good before that and I was in the process of sorting it out by creating giveaways.
  • Yes, it happened to me, but again I was in the process of sorting it out. (I'd made a mistake in my calculations) and it was fixed before the kick.
  • Yes, I did that, and I regret it. I just waited a few days before putting in as received, which is in accordance with SteamGifts rules, which allow 1 week for that! (I never make it to no received)
  • I agree in principle, that it's to warn the members. What I don't like is being portrayed as a leecher, which I'm not ...
2 weeks ago
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2 weeks ago
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and also about defaming someone publicly

Oh, the irony!

2 weeks ago*
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Yes, like the rules IS, 2:1 (2 won, 1 created)

2 weeks ago
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It's against the rules to call someone out on Steamgifts.
Please remove the username and any details concerned, or remove yourself.

2 weeks ago
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When I used to see those groups it always felt to me like a group of friends got together to make it to leech from others and since they are in charge, they make the rules and no one can call them out for their ratios.

2 weeks ago
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Bottom line is groups are privately operated on SG and group mods can create rules and enforce them as they wish.
It's your right not to like it but that still doesn't change the fact they can kick you out.
Patchman is a fair mod so I'm sure we're only getting a teeny tiny side of the story but even so I'd probably have kicked you too if I was Patch.
Regardless, you are not big on rules, it seems and you should know calling out users in threads for whatever reasons can lead to suspension so you probably should delete the thread or remove screenshots and mentions of the user and group.
In any case, I'm sure you will find another group to peddle the shovelware.

Good luck with that.

2 weeks ago
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2 weeks ago
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You know, I am a relatively new member of the SteamGifts community and also joined the <Pandora SG> group.
The fact that the administrator of the group himself has a controversial rating is not critical for me, since his main task is the organizational work of running the group.
However, I have also noticed among older members of the community an unhealthy tendency to judge and belittle newcomers. They count how many games you had on your account, how many hands you created, what games you give away, whether you play the games you won (as if I can’t put the game aside in order to go through it in a month or 2 when I have free time ) a little more and they will try to measure your head with a caliper to make sure that you are worthy to take part in the distribution.
It seemed to me that this platform allows us to find owners for our extra keys and perhaps accidentally receive a key from some random game.
But this does not mean that you need to condemn the entire community as a whole because of 100-200 controversial individuals. Thousands of ordinary normal people on this site will be happy to both take part in your giveaway and let you take part in theirs! I especially remember the New Year's community atmosphere!

So, if you have a conflict with the group administrator, then don’t worry and create your own group with blackjack and girls!

And if you don’t have time for this, then just give people games without a group. In any case, the winners will be grateful to you and sooner or later they will beat your game and get a lot of emotions.

Best wishes!

2 weeks ago
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typical pebcak

2 weeks ago
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