Whitelist giveaways and group giveaways are different things?
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People don't get into whitelist giveaways by joining groups. A lot of groups are deliberately quite small and don't want to be spammed with entry requests, let alone people making giveaways for their whitelists. There is forum spam for certain groups (and occasionally whitelists) but I think you might be surprised how many would prefer to keep a low profile.
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That's why I say it should be optional. So the creator of the giveaway can choose whether to make it public or private.
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A lot of stuff that you said was edited since I made that post. But even so, optional for who? I don't want giveaway creators having the option to spam me with group giveaways for groups I'm not interested in. As I said in later posts, how many people does this benefit compared to how many are inconvenienced? A genuine question rather than an attack, but one that needs to be answered before this can be considered a valid suggestion.
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Yes. Thanks for your comments. It has been edited for clarity but the substance is the same. You would only see the giveaways requiring group membership if you clicked the "group" giveaway list, just like you click to see your wishlist giveaways now.
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I'm re-reading this and I'm not even sure that is what you intended but this is quite confusing. I think you are mixed up about a few things. A giveaway that requires a direct link is an invite only giveaway which is a different thing to group giveaways (although that link may just be shared with a group). A whitelist giveaway is a different thing to group giveaways (although that may be combined with group giveaways).
Some people who want to enter every giveaway would love to see all group giveaways so they can spam for membership but not every group would want this. Not every user would want to see giveaways for groups they don't want to enter. I'm unsure how many people this might benefit compared to how many might be inconvenienced.
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You will not see giveaways for groups of which you are not a member without a link. Even then you will just see a notice saying you're not a member. This would be the equivalent of a private group giveaway in the above scheme..
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So if I don't see giveaways for groups of which I am not a member without a link then where is this link posted?
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I am not saying anyone would do that. I am saying that's the only way to know they exist unless you're in the group.
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As you have already quoted:
"A private group giveaway would operate as now, and wouldn't be accessible to anyone who is not a member of the required groups without a direct link."
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Except that quote is the bit that I'm struggling with.
The way a private group giveaway operates now is that it is visible to anybody in the group without a direct link.
However I read this and account for poor grammar, etc doesn't make sense.
Either the way you think a private group giveaway now operates is that a requires a direct link - which is wrong.
Or you think that the way a private group giveaway now operates is that somebody can join if they aren't in the group as long as they have a direct link - which is wrong.
Or you think the way it should work is that the group giveaways should require a direct link in the future. Which doesn't seem like the improvement you are suggesting.
Seriously, explain this one to me.
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I didn't say it wasn't visible to people who are members of the group without the link.
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I said it was only visible to people outside the group with the link.
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Well, currently with a link you would only get the message;
"You do not have permission to view this giveaway, since you are not a member of the required Steam groups."
I wouldn't really call that visible but is that what you meant?
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I think I understand this: currently, SG forums forbids encouraging users to join groups for personal gain (which could be viewed as higher member counts, follows, likes, tweets, etc.). However, SG allows such encouragement in the text of a GA itself. So, to bypass the restriction in the SG forums, link people directly to the group-only GA's where they can see the encouragement text. Unfortunately, right now, non-members of the group that's being recruited for are blocked from even seeing the text inside the GA. The solution: allow SG to show non-members the GA encouragement text, then replace the 'Enter' button with a 'Sorry, you have to join the group before you can enter' button... I'm unsure whether that kind of system would uphold the founding values of this website, which is to freely share and gift games to each other out of enjoyment and desire to share, rather than as a means to get extra group members or extra likes / tweets / follows / subscribers. However, I can definitely see how the above changes would benefit groups who are trying to recruit massive amounts of members.
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Then why allow group giveaways at all? If you're going to allow group giveaways, you may as well do it properly. Growing groups = better giveaways from those groups, as you can ask for better rewards from developers, hardly "personal gain".
Don't forget why the devs give these keys in the first place. Personal gain. Raise awareness. The game keys themselves are the biggest lure of all... the same reason many give keys to humble bundle, have sales on steam and the rest of it.
Steamgifts may not want that sort of giveaway, but that's where i get some of my keys, and that's why my SG membership and growing it is important to me (though I do also have a backlog of something like 900 humble bundle keys I need to clear, too, so it's far from being dev only GAs).
I can see what steamgifts is trying to do but their solution is a bit like banning childbirth to cure criminality. It kinda goes some way to solve the problem, but I am not sure it's really the best outcome available.
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I see this has been edited significantly since I first posted and is making more sense, but even so;
"A private group giveaway would operate as now, and wouldn't be accessible to anyone who is not a member of the required groups without a direct link."
That isn't how it works. Only invite only giveaways require a direct link, those don't require group membership and group giveaways don't require a direct link.
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See above. It is how it works. I can't see giveaways for groups of which I am not a member.
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I can't see giveaways for groups of which I am not a member. But I can see giveaways for groups of which I am a member without a direct link. Have you considered researching how giveaways work before suggesting improvements to the system?
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I am talking about giveaways for which you are not a member. Have you thought about making sure you've understood things correctly before rude and arrogant?
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Yes, I can clearly see that you have made multiple mistakes...
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Same with you. I'll get you up to speed soon enough!
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I'm asking questions because I'm honestly struggling with your suggestion that you have the luxury of editing (making up) as you go along. Personally I'd have a researched a few more things than yourself before making the topic...
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I haven't changed anything just teminology.
I am not suggesting nor have I ever suggested that anyone send out links to group members for group giveaways, which is what you seem fixated on.
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You have edited a lot more than just terminology. The suggestion of a 'group' giveaway list that could be clicked on like a 'wishlist' giveaway list was a significant later addition. I'm not 'fixated' on the idea of links beyond the quote that you have still failed to explain;
"A private group giveaway would operate as now, and wouldn't be accessible to anyone who is not a member of the required groups without a direct link."
What private group giveaways are currently 'accessible' to somebody who is not a member of the required groups with a direct link or would be under your proposed plan? Invite only giveaways that require a direct link are not currently compatible with group giveaways and I don't see how a proposed change might connect to your plan. Group giveaways that require direct links would necessitate posting direct links somewhere which would be the opposite of avoiding spam by not having to post links.
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No. I thought group and wishlist giveaways were the same. They're under the same option when you create a giveaway. I made a second mistake when I corrected all occurrences of "wishlist" to "group".
RE your link fixation.
Well, for example, I am not a member of the group "My Trash Your Treasure Giveaways" but if someone gives me this link https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/MlyE6/the-note I can access that giveaway. I can access it, that's about all. Can't tell what the description is, or enter it, but I do know it's there and that it's for "The Note".
No one who is a member of the group requires that link unless they ask me "hey bud what was the link to that great giveaway you were doing. Otherwise, they can just search for it themselves. I might tweet out "hey! I am doing a giveaway for The Note, enter here: https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/MlyE6/the-note" but they don't actually need the link to enter.
They don't need the link to enter it, of course, but they are members of the group and so are not included in the sentence:
."A private group giveaway would operate as now, and wouldn't be accessible to anyone who is NOT A MEMBER of the required groups without a direct link."
They are members of the group and so can easily find, access and enter the giveaway without the link.
I was talking about people WHO ARE NOT IN THE GROUP accessing the giveaway.
You seem to think I am talking about people WHO ARE IN THE GROUP.
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Basically what I was saying is "You can't see a group giveaway if you are not in the group. Except, if you have a link to it."
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So you are saying if you have a link that gets you a message "You do not have permission to view this giveaway, since you are not a member of the required Steam groups." then you are 'accessing' a giveaway?
That isn't what 'accessing' means. I didn't go to an English language school so I carefully check this kind of thing in a dictionary to avoid mistakes and I think you should too.
Don't tell me what I think I'm talking about when you don't even know what 'accessing' means. Don't criticise me for not being a master clairvoyant and predicting five steps in advance how you are going to edit your suggestion before I comment.
And don't pull that CAPS LOCK bullshit on me after I've said I'm going to go and draw boobs. CAPS LOCK is never a sign that you have the moral or intellectual high ground.
Go and consider and all of my unanswered questions about what people might actually want and then reconsider your suggestion and then you might want to think that it was a bit crap and forget about it.
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I have now removed this sentence from the OP since it is distressing you so much. I hope the hangover wasn't too severe.
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Actually, you know what? As a naturally grumpy person I've done my level best to be polite in the face of a poorly researched suggestion and in the face of vile accusations. I'm going to go and finish drinking my Glen Marnoch Speyside single malt and draw myself some Bayonetta pornography. I wish yourself the best with developing your suggestion and everybody else the best with pointing out the flaws...
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OK. Figured you had to be drinking alone or something.
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If you had done more research, you would know that Isle of Islay single malts taste better, but I guess boobs fix all such problems anyways. :P
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Fan of a peaty islay myself, but since Glen Marnoch is Aldi's own brand whiskey, maybe they were out of stock?
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Live and learn, now I know what an Aldi is, we only have Lidl and an alcohol monopoly. :)
https://www.esquire.com/food-drink/drinks/a21343868/aldi-whisky-best-in-world/
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Indeed it is good stuff! Not sure if it is the best in the world but certainly very drinkable, highly rated and the Islay is not for the faint-hearted! Also: about half the price of many more expensive brands.
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I have done extensive research and I do not believe this is the case.
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It turned out good. However, having gotten to the stage of fearing logging on to Steam because of messages about SG drama and then wasting my time in random arguments when logging onto SG itself I think it is time for me to take another year out. I'll probably see you all for the next community train!
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Maybe you should fix the nomenclature, it makes it a mess to read through.
Basically, you want a publicly-visible group giveaway that still requires you to join the group to participate in the giveaway.
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When creating a giveaway it says "Whitelist/Groups" to select groups. Surely these are the same thing? I have changed it anyway as it is clearer to say "groups".
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Whitelists are a personal list of "favorite" users and you can make giveaways for them as a special group separate from Steam.
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I've read this three times and still have no idea what you're actually suggesting. Sorry. I find your post entirely baffling.
EDIT: And your post above suggests you don't know what a whitelist GA is or an invite only GA. So it's a bit weird that you're making suggestions about new categories of GAs without understanding what is currently available...
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It's pretty straightforward.
Currently, there is no way to see a group giveaway unless you are a member of the group(s). The suggestion is to allow creators the option to make group giveaways both observable and searchable by people who aren't members of the groups, though they'd still requiring group membership to enter.
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OK... I think I see what you're getting at. Can I suggest you remove "and enter" from the thread title, it implies you want a new category of group GA which is not only visible the same as a public GA but can also be entered by any user the same as a public GA. That's not what you mean, right?
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So that when you do a group giveaway and you want to recruit, you don't have to go back to the recruitment forums and type bump 3 times a day?
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It says "option to....." I will change it to say "add the option to..."
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You have entirely missed the point. The title (still) implies you think there should be special "group" giveaways which anybody outside of the group can still enter. The rest of your post does not communicate that this is actually what you are suggesting, in fact you even say that people would still need to join the group in order to enter.
If you really are suggesting that there should be some strange hybrid giveaway which is associated with a group but anybody can enter it like a public giveaway, I'm tempted to say you need to re-write your post - though I hesitate, because every edit until now has managed to make it even more incoherent...
So, TLDR: it's still profoundly unclear what you are really trying to suggest, but I can only join everyone else in the thread in saying it sounds like a terrible idea nonetheless.
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But some giveaways are not for anyone to enter and are intended for existing group members of a closed group, for example.
These would be for anyone to enter, they'd just have to join the group.
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As most here I'm a bit confused about what you are suggesting, but I think this comment made it a bit clearer for me, tell me if I got it wrong:
You want closed groups (invite-only steam grops, who still wish to be closed, with a fixed number of members) to stay closed, but you want the groups that want more members (with open-for-all steam groups) to display the Steam group (with link) so people can first join the Steam group, then join the GA?
Did I understand you correctly?
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No: I want the creator of a giveaway to be given the option of making a giveaway public, if their group membership is open.
So a group might have an open membership but their giveaways would not be public unless the person creating the giveaway specified. them to be. That way they can still do private giveaways, visible only to group members.
What I have suggested is that these giveaways would appear in a separate list to all other giveaways, accessible when you click "Recruitment" in the left hand column.
The idea is to allow people a new option and not force anyone into anything.
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OK, so you mean when the Steam group is open to all, the GA might just as well be too (if the GA creator so chooses).
Was that a function that was widely used on the other site you were on (and by widely I mean not just by you or a few others, but a lot of users)?
I might be wrong but I would think that if anyone does a group GA then they want it for the group only, even if it is very easy to join the group. I don't think this would be a function that would be used much. Again, I might be wrong here.
Personally I think another function might be just as good and (possibly, I don't presume to know anything about programming or moderating) less problematic, is a simple add-on to the page which tells you that the GA is closed to you because you are not a member of the group. The GA creator could choose to have a link there to their steam group (open or closed, doesn't matter) when and if they want more random applicants. Link only valid as long as GA is running to prevent long term spamming of requests.
I think that would achieve the same outcome you are looking for, but (perhaps) without some of the rather well explained difficulties you have received elsewhere in this thread.
And thinking about it a bit more, I don't really see the point of what you are suggesting (not trying to be rude, just looking at it from a different point of view) as you can already do what you want. If you do a group GA, but want everyone to be able to join, you just do it as a public GA instead. Then everyone can join in, group members and non-group members alike, just as you want. Therefore what you are suggesting sound a little bit like a public GA with extra steps...
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If I don't make the giveaway linked to the group, the group will not grow. If the group doesn't grow, devs won't give me games to giveaway.
It kind of goes like that. Current group membership is around 8k, and I've successfully got keys for Observer, Hunt: Showdown, Call of Cthulhu, Room Three and otherss.
My solution is to do GAs through here to grow the group, "trash GAs", humble castoffs etc and then do the real giveaways for the good stuff through gleam. Problem solved.
That's where the hunt showdown and room three giveaways have gone now. Feel free to join up :)
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Surely since there's already a "group recruitment" forum, it's less open to abuse and more efficient than that?
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Yes but the whole point is that the "group recruitment" forum is not meant as advertisement. The idea behind it, at least IMO, is for giveaway group to recruit new members.
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So how is this different? I don't understand. In a group recruitment I can list the giveaways I am running, am I right? Why not list my group on the giveaways I am running instead?
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I understand what your are saying but SG is primarily a giveaway site so putting a tab like you say for group who's first goal is advertising IMO is not what SG is all about.
The group recruitment section was made primarily for giveaway group to recruit and yes you can post there to advertise your group even if your group is a curator group, so while you still do giveaway, you mostly do giveaway to recruit new followers as opposed to a private giveaway group who recruit solely for the purpose of sharing giveaways.
Having a tab like you say, the only group that would want to have public group giveaway would probably be group that do it solely for advertising not private giveaway group so then it become less about the giveaway and more about the advertising.
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Why would it give people the incentive to create more groups?
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There's no functional difference (ie, in terms of visibility and ease of access) between posting into the group recruitment subforum and posting to the giveaway list, excepting that the latter is more spammy and abusable. Even just to avoid basic issues, you'd need to add in clear markers to distinguish such giveaways from giveaways of groups you are already a part of (thus adding visual clutter) and add additional user setting options and ways of blocking specific groups (which further increases the amount of effort required to implement the change).
It wouldn't be a simple change, it'd have certain downsides, and it wouldn't provide a clear benefit. You'd need to functionally address those elements before the suggestion could be taken to have any real weight. Of course, even then we'd still end up looping back to the usual "cg has trouble enough making the time to add in core improvements to bother with side efforts", meaning you'd also need to offer basis for why this suggestion is more meritorious than others.
I'm curious though if something couldn't be worked through scripts (as per the SG norm) without too much effort. In theory all it should require is the ability to submit giveaways to the script, and the script auto-integrating those into the normal giveaway list. A script'd also be easier to edit controls into.
To address the points you have already made:
This change would considerably lessen the burden of mods patrolling the forums, as many posts requiring moderation are advertising group giveaways. It would lessen data volumes and server traffic: no more need for bumps and thanks in the forums. It would make the site easier to use for both entrants and giveaway creators.
It would increase need for giveaway moderation, which is typically more of an issue. I'm not clear as to how it'd have a meaningful impact on server load, and certainly not as to how it'd be a positive impact. It'd make the site more cumbersome and cluttered, making it easier only for advertisers.
A better explanation as to why you feel those points are valid would be suitable, as right now they seem baseless and contradictory to expectations.
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There's a massive difference in terms of ease of use, maintenance, smooth running, complication of use etc. You might as well say there's no functional difference between steamgifts group giveaways and having everyone message you their entries on steam, you manually checking they're members of your group
" it'd have certain downsides, and it wouldn't provide a clear benefit."
I cannot think of any downsides?
The initial idea would be only to list such giveaways when the user specifically clicks "group" on the browse box on the left of the main page and not mixed in with any other list. If people are capable of trawling forums for giveaways they're more than capable of ignoring certain group giveaways.
Optionally, one might have a "group rexcruitment" filter which could be enabled/disabled in some sort of advanced search facility but that's all.
"It would increase need for giveaway
Moderation". How? Surely those giveaways are there already. I can see dozens already unmoderated with links to websites, advertising etc. Perhaps if mods weren't tied up in the forums they'd have time to clear these up.
At the moment, to search for group giveaways for groups of which I am not a member I have to clock the group recruitment forum. Click a post. Make sarcastic comments about how somebody doesn't know the arcane laws of steamgifts. Engage in a flame war. Then click the giveaway after joining the group. Then enter the giveaway, then say thanks.
My way I click the group giveaway list [which could show me the groups I need to belong to before I even go into the giveaways]. click the giveaway I want, enter the giveaway, say thanks.
That's 1 and a half lines of steps vs 2 and a half. Has to count for something in terms of server traffic :D
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PS this is not my idea. It is how steamcompanion used to work, except it used to mix group giveaways in with the rest, unless you filtered them out. just tried to adapt it to work the way the rest of steamgifts seems to.
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I have now edited my post below and the OP. I made a mistake.
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I'd rather have less spam than more spam.
At most, have it be a thing that you have to opt in for. If this were the norm, we'd have so much damn spam. Group whores would shill their group even more than now and you'd barely see the giveaways you actually want to see.
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To clarify, less forum spam, but more semi-restricted giveaway spam.
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I have reworded the OP. My mistake and I see where I have caused confusion] I have toothache atm and am not at my best.
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Essentially there would be a specific option to see only these giveaways. They would not be mixed in with anything else.
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Yeah, I get it.
I think it's fine and can be useful for you guys making groups and wouldn't do much otherwise.
I was just clarifying his point.
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Actually, this would lead to heaps of spam. So you're trying to tell me that seeing giveaways that you can't enter in and that you have to join some random group to join isn't a bad thing? Only around 0.5-1% of group giveaways are actually put into the forums. Not to mention, it'll still stay because people are dying to be special by holding "group specific events" and other recruitment threads. It will never go away and those that have been posted here are almost entirely by people who want the extra attention to them and their group.
This won't help anyone. This is just a way to feed you more advertisements. Just because they're native ads to Steam groups, doesn't mean they're better than the average "join our betting service to get a $20 start up credit". At least with those ones your gain is guaranteed...
So, the answer is that you haven't thought this through in any way and currently all you're offering us is useless stuff to clog up our experience. Instead of changing my answer based on the first sentence (because who wouldn't do it, amirite....?....), try reading my responses.
EDIT: I see you've changed the text, but in all honesty, who cares? I'm responding to your original proposal. You've changed the thread text multiple times already. I recommend you close this one and start a new one with everything already thought out. Happy to see new suggestions and all, but just throwing stuff out there to see what sticks isn't the best way to go about it. Have an idea, express it well and listen to the responses instead of throwing one-liners to try and negate what has been said.
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There would be a specific option to see only these giveaways. They would not be mixed in with anything else or appear on any other giveaway lists. If you didn't click the "recruitment" giveaway link, you'd never see them
I changed the text and the original was an error, but the above was always my intention. I can see how it would lead you confusion. Thisi was an established feature on steamcompanion for years. It was very heavily used. Nobody would force you to use it or to view such giveaways.
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There would be a specific option to see only these giveaways. They would not be mixed in with anything else or appear on any other giveaway lists. If you didn't click the "recruitment" giveaway link, you'd never see them
Makes way more sense. If it's optional, then fine. As long as it's also opt-in and in this case, it seems to be.
It was very heavily used.
Unless you have legitimate stats on this, then I wouldn't bring this up. You already have a point by making it an opt-in optional feature. No point in weakening your argument by making people see how unsubstantiated that claim seems to be.
Overall, I'm down with that idea more.
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All I can say is that on steamcompanion, there were plenty of giveaways requiring group membership. There was a filter you could set to filter them out if you didn't want to see them. Probably a half to a third of all giveaways. from what I recall?
Put it like this, for every 5 or 10 public group giveaways you did, it would pop up a nag screen saying "please consider doing a GA without a group requirement". Must have been reasonably common to warrant that.
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Group ga have been between 15% and 26% for the last 2 years, not half to a third.
And for the last 46 months (since SGv2), there is only 3 months above that at 28.3%, 29,9% and 27.1%
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I meant to say "steamcompanion". My mistake and I have now corrected the above post.
However, might I suggest that so few group giveaways are visible because they're so lacking? This change might mean far more of them?
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Oh ok I've only used steamcompanion a couple months before they closed the giveaways, so I don't know.
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I can see that there may be a genuine reason for not wanting group giveaways that steamgifts is in some way for acts of charity only. Fair enough but I'd say that's an argument for completely banning all giveaways requiring group membership and not really an argument about this suggestion. IMO.
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The problem would be people advertising for groups/youtube channel or whatever and getting traffic/views from here and earning money off cg's work who's running the site and made all of this possible. People shouldn't be allowed to do that (unless they're patreon, but even there it's still questionnable)
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But the rules prohibit such advertising and links, right?
OK so my group is called "indiebob live on twitch,tv." and as such people might think I am a livestreamer. However, I am not very good at it and I spend far more of GAs than I make from any streaming. I can't change the name of the group as steam doesn't allow it.
Should group giveaways with names like mine be banned? I'd say possibly if that's against steamgift's ethos.
People would be free to leave the group any time, they can switch off notifications etc. I get maybe 1 new viewer per 1000 people in my steam group (if I am lucky). I have 8000 members so you can guess how many viewers I get!
Yes, I want to grow my group. But here's why:
What being a streamer does do for me is it allows me to ask devs for keys for streaming. And I usually ask for a key for a giveaway at the same time. I have far more people in my steam group than livestreams, so doing a giveaway through that steam group is how I sell my request to the devs. "I have 8000 in my steam group and can do a giveaway through it for you, will write a review, post links, do some livetreaming" etc. This is why Crytek gave me a second key for "Hunt: Showdown", which I listed on steam gifts and I was very happy about it!
The larger that group gets, the more likely they are to say yes and in the future, say I get to 20k members, I might be able to ask for 2 or 3 extra keys to giveaway...
Even though I get a game key out of it, my reasons for wanting to grow my steam group are neither selfish nor to make money. It's big enough already to get me free keys, now I am in it for the giveaways. I just wish steamgifts would make my life easier.
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Even though I get a game key out of it, my reasons for wanting to grow my steam group are neither selfish nor to make money.
I'm not calling you out for that, I'm sure you have good intention. The problem is bad people trying to abuse the system, like always.
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If the steam group was linked to a giveaway and could be made public, and, instead of a group recruitment forum, they had a list of recruitment notices which had a button linking them to a steam group (and only a steam group), then that'd mean there would be no need to links in any posts at all. Problem solved? Probably not, but certainly very reduced. Allowing public group giveaways is a first step ...
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You might say "you are just in it for free stuff".
Believe me, with the amount of work I put in vs how much I get out, I am well below minimum wage. I'd be far better getting a second job and buying games for myself with the money from that.
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Believe me, with the amount of work I put in vs how much I get out
And I support you and wish you good luck for doing that because I wouldn't do it myself.
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This is my point. To do the giveaways, I need the members. Steamgifts would benefit from allowing me to grow my group.
I'd be all for members being able to report abusive or criminal groups and ban them from the site.
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Just look at how much time I have spent on this post lol.
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PS I also do giveaways from my own pocket. E.g. I receently gave away "Ark: Survival evolved" which I paid for.
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Also: If I wanted to use the giveaways to make my livestreams more popular, wouldn't I be giving away keys during livestreams and not on steamgifts? Just a thought ...
Or maybe gleam where people HAVE to follow my youtube, twitch etc to join?
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IMO if you are going to allow group giveaways, you may as well do it right. The recruitment forum is sloppy, prone to abuse, people find it hard to know all the rules and makes it easy for people to get the wrong idea about steam gifts.
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I think it can help the people that don't care about groups and just join them for givs. It centralizes group-restricted givs and let's people see them, effectively reccommending them to join the groups with the best givs.
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I did not read all the responds and the above thread but I believe your intentions is similar to this. This is the Group Giveaway page for example. Yes, not all groups want to advertise their giveaways as it may attract unwanted attention and they wanted to fine line whom the accept.
You are allow to advertise your group giveaway as such, https://www.steamgifts.com/group/7EbhN/mtytgveaway in your Group Recruitment Page. Go to Settings > Groups > Your Group > Giveaways. There is a unique ID after "group/" and I've asked support/group members before that its not possible to populate it. As mentioned earlier not everyone wants to be exposed. Hope this helps.
Cheerios, Cruse~
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That's why the visibility of group giveaways should be optional like it was on steam companion. I am aware this will require work to change.
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i'm not a supporter of this idea, like many before have said,I rather not be bombarded by reguest to join my group simply because they want to join the ga i'm doing.
In my opinion this would only help the people that only join a group for the ga+ those massive groups that only care about member count.
Why didnt you add a poll though?
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Then you could turn off the option to make it public. Aa a private giveaway, nobody would see it.
I am glad I didn't add a poll as everyone would seemingly be voting on the wrong idea!
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so as nobody want it to be happen, we hope it wont ^^
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so they removed it? Probably a good Choice as here nobody wants it as well
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No. Steam companion got so popular that the guy running it almost had a nervous breakdown. He gave it up "to spend more time with family and friends" or something.
"SteamCompanion is closed until further notice.
As most of you probably have noticed, parts of the website haven't been online in more than a month. Primarily because the harddrive crashed, and I needed to contact a hard drive recovery service to get it restored, since my host doesn’t do backups or disk images. (and my own backup wasn't 100% up to date, which would’ve caused a few people to lose their wins, lose some of their points, etc. which I didn’t want to do). The server stuff is all fixed now, and everyones things are fully restored, the managed and won pages are now back online, but I’m going to keep the rest of the website offline a little longer.
To be honest, working a lot hours on my real job and steamcompanion hasn’t had a good impact on my health, family and friends lately. I’d like to take a small break from it, reconnect with family/friends, maybe play some games for once, and maybe work on different small projects unrelated to Steam.
This isn’t a permanent shut down. I’ve been part of the Steam community for 11 years, and have worked on SteamCompanion for almost 6 years. I always come back.
I also just wanted to thank you guys for being so supportive, and understanding. It’s interesting looking back. I just wanted to giveaway some games on the website for fun until a few people approached me asking me if they could host some giveaways as well.
To make sure that you'll get notified the moment the website is back up follow us on Steam, facebook and/or twitter!
See you when we return, Nick"
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I am glad I didn't add a poll as everyone would seemingly be voting on the wrong idea!
Or because the idea is wrong...
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I am beginning to wonder if this place just filled with script kiddies who don't want to have to rewrite anything to enter each giveaway with their 50 fake steam accounts.
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thats nice, so because the majority doesnt agree with you, sg forum consists of kiddies using scripts and having 50 fake accounts.
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At the same time, someone doing GAs is somehow trying to get them to join a steam group to somehow make money off them ...
I was just returning the unjustified scepticism.
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So because i have 2 steamgroup i somehow want to make money of them? On the contrary, I spend what must of been tens if not hunderds of euro's on my 2 groups. That's ok, cause i love the interaction in the groups and don't mind handing out a few games or steamwallet.
your idea of the group ga's would only help the massive groups that do try to make money or atleast get free games of their members( by curating game?)
you make a snap decision while you know nothing of me or my groups.
How was my comment unjustified scepticism? I gave you my honest opninon on a idea you had. I suggest next time not to post your idea as you clearly dont want a honest opinion, just praise and tabs on the shoulder, good idea man! And sg support jumping on your idea and kicking themself they didnt thought of it.
Best of luck
Dix
ps, if ya wanna check out my groups they called fluffy pink gamers and giveaway for friends.
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That's what I mean. I don't think many users here realise just how much work goes into steam groups and how little return there is, if any. Of course, people want to grow their groups but that's not unreasonable and it's usually not for profit or for any malicious purpose.
I didn't mean that your comment was unjustified scepticism, it was the comments of others which were.
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So basically you want to advertise your group-giveaways?
No benefit in making it public if those are not allowed to enter.
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I can already advertise group giveaways in the group recruitment forums. However, posts are cumbersome and prone to abuse and it produced unwarranted traffic as people bump their posts every few hours/days.
As stated in the OP (and I have just edited it to restate it at the top of the post) this would be allowed for groups with open membership only.
People would have to join to enter the giveaway, but anyone must be allowed to join for the option to be available (it is a steam group option to leave membership open). The people who run such groups could still opt to keep their giveaways private, if they chose, on a giveaway by giveaway basis, so nothing is forced on anyone.
These giveaways would not be mixed in with all giveaways but would appear in a special "recruitment" giveaway list a user could opt to view.
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this idea is slightly better..i wouldnt look at it...but people that are interrested in the massive groups could look here and the group recruitment would be open to the smaller groups. In this form i would give it a vote up.
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No, just no. I don't want to see giveaways that require me to join some group before I can enter.
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Then don't click the recruitment giveaway list. Simples.
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Ah, I see, so you only want those public group giveaways to be visible through a special list/tab/category? Those giveaways still wouldn't be visible when browsing all or wishlist giveaways? Okay, fine, I wouldn't even look into that list.
But still, it's a lot of trouble for a feature that has no other benefit than helping to recruit for some groups. In fact it's a lot like those gleam giveaways that used to be posted here: free stuff that comes with a price, join here and get a chance to win something.
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Why is there a need for a "group recruitment" steamgift forum, if there's no need for it?
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It should be for giveaway groups, small group of steamgifts users doing ga for the other members, generally with rules or different points system.
But I'm pretty sure people would advertise for public group there too.
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I think you are talking nonsense. i see plenty of groups listed there, public or otherwise.
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Joining a steam group is a price? What about the effort it takes to read the screen, select a giveaway, click that join giveaway button? Price price price!
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Of course it's a price. Joining some obscure Steam group may be a very small price, but it's a price nonetheless.
It's the very reason why SG introduced that rule to stop people posting those gleam giveaways: it was getting out of hand. Some of those giveaways required people to do a dozen things, join up groups, like this, follow that. Now, I understand your suggestion is a bit different, as it's only one group per giveaway.
Still, it adds up. And still, I simply don't like the idea of waving with a carrot on stick like that. Because that's basically what it is: waving with some giveaway in order to bribe people into joining some group. So, before going though all the trouble to implement a feature like this, go ask yourself, is it really worth it?
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So are you saying that group giveaways should be removed from steamgifts? These giveaways exist. You go to the recruitment forum, join the groups then can view their giveaways. A much bigger price in terms of effort than my proposal. A whole forum of prices, benefits and costs adding up.
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No, I am saying group giveaways should stay as they are. People join up a group first and only then see the associated giveaways. I'm not against group giveaways per se, I'm just against waving them around like some kind of bribe saying "look, if you join here, you could win that". Even if it's only visible through some extra tab/category, it's still bribery. Let's just keep the bribery in the group recruitment forum, or in the description of a public giveaway.
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How is this different from joining a group called "Giveawys giveaways giveaways we do all giveaways for the games ! Guess what? WE DO GIVEAWAYS"?
Do I join a group like that thinking there won't be any reward, in the form of giveaways? When was the last time a group was advertised on steamgifts which did not do game giveaways? Has it ever even happened?
The only difference is that one is for people who have time to trawl the forums, join the groups, check out their giveaways and so on where the other is for everyone.
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Is it worth it? 1 person modifies a system so that 100,000s of end users have their lives made easier? Hmmm I'd go so far as to say that's largely what makes IT and the internet the popular medium/platform it is today.
But no, you are right, silly idea. I mean who'd create an app where people can pretend to run around shooting each other when they can just run around themselves and pretend with toy guns, which are far cheaper than consoles, computers, phones etc. Amirite?
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Now, let's stay realistic: the only benefit of your suggestion is to make recruiting for some obscure Steam group more visible. I fail see, how that's supposed to ease the life of 100,000s of end users.
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With my recent giveaways I gained over 700 members to my steam group. What's your point again?
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It makes the life of people who want to see what steam groups are worth joining for their giveaways, but don't have a lifetime to trawl forums, check out groups etc. easier. I'd say there are probably 100,000s of those on steamgifts.
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There aren't 100000 currently active users. Even then, not all of them like to join groups and not all of them enter every giveaway they could.
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Ok, I'd guess there are 1000s more users than devs and that a site which offered more giveaways to those who didn't mind joining groups might garner more members.
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I don't disagree on that, your number was just a bit too high.
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Not seeing a benefit to anyone here. If you're still segregating these off in their own area, how is that any different than the recruitment forum? You're still going to need people to browse through an extra area of the site. If they wanted to do that, they could just use the forum.
The only argument I've seen against the use of the forum is that people bump their threads too much. Basically, that comes down to you wanting your threads to be more visible, and everyone else's to be less visible. Your suggestion doesn't solve that either, as people who want to "bump" will just create another trash game giveaway to put their recruitment in front of everyone again.
TL;DR - This solves nothing for anyone, and just makes another part of the site for people to have to read (or not).
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- No need to bump every few days. That's a benefit.
- It puts a straight jacket on such giveaways, hopefully leading to fewer dodgy links etc, less need for moderation.
- Nobody will click a trash game giveaway and hence is unlikely to join the group, hence they'd be a waste of time. Though, as it is, I create giveaways for good but cheap games which aren't linked to my steam group, with a link to my steamgroup in the description, saying there are more giveaways there... so this happens already anyway.
- Wrong. You've stated yourself that there are benefits, just not for you.
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What it would mean is that more people would enter group only giveaways and I think that's what most people here don't like, They want as little competition as possible from people who don't have time to trawl the recruitment forums, hence, it's not going to be a popular idea with people who have time to trawl the forums.
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What it would mean is that more people would enter group only giveaways
So steamgifts become an advertising hub? no thanks
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If u won't see them in "all giveaways" list - why not.
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Well, you could always add the option to see them in the all giveaways list, but so many people didn't want that, I thought the simplest way was to have a separate list which was easily accessible.
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Now u see wishlist/whitelist/group giveaways in all giveaways list.
If there will be new list "Public group giveaways, u're not a member of this group" - I don't want to see those giveaways in all giveaways list.
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SG is not a place to advertise your groups. Go away.
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I want to see giveaways I can enter for on the main page, not to have a "join these groups to access these juicy giveaways" section. I join a group when I want to join to said group, not to whore out for giveways.
Also:
When posting links or content, that content should not force users, encourage users through reward, or primarily exist as a traffic source for users to perform an action for promotional, commercial, or monetary benefit. Such actions include but are not limited to clicking a referral link, liking a Facebook page, following a Twitter account, joining a Steam group, completing a survey, or making a donation.
It would be a bit weird if the giveaway list would "require to perform an action like joiining a Steam group" to access the giveaways. That is exactly promotion for the groups, and it's way more annoying than some group recruitment topics.
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There's already an entire forum dedicated to group recruiting for giveaways. Check it out. I can't recall a group listed on there for which the reward wasn't entry into giveaways.
I'd guess very few run giveaways for profit on steamgifts. Far better to use a promotional platform like gleam or similar, that way you can redirect people to product pages, youtube channels, twitch channels, pretty much anything you like.
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There's already an entire forum dedicated to group recruiting for giveaways. Check it out.
Let's cut out stating the obvious, because that is insulting to anyone you talk to. I don't want to see 3 promotional giveaways I CAN NOT ENTER on the giveaway list instead of those three being in a singular topic that is being buried pretty fast because no, it is not bumped as often as you suggest it is. Not to mention, who stops multiple members making these "group only, but in everyone's face" giveaways?
Your suggestion clears up one amount of stuff the forum and produces multiple times of that in giveaways that doesn't even get pushed back if not bumped like topics do, they are in everyone's face until the giveaway ends, likely for 2 weeks.
And you completely missed the point about promotion or anything. Filling up the giveway page with giveaways that require entering is asking an extra step from a user to access it, and it's not like "don't open the recruitment if you want enter-group-giveaways". It's in everyone's face, like a pop-up ad for those groups. Thanks, but no thanks.
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"Let's cut out stating the obvious"
Sadly, since you're telling me things that aren't true or in the OP, I can't do that. No need to be so aggressive, though.
They'd only be in the face of people who click the "group recruiting" giveaway link. Nobody else will see them. Just like nobody sees the "in your face" posts in the current group recruiting forum.
You can enter any of these giveaways because they will be for groups with open membership and as a result, you will be able to join the group just as easily as joining the giveaway. Just an extra click or two. You can decide not to join the group, just like you can decide not to join a giveaway and just like you can decide not to join the groups in the recruiting forum.
Giveaways aren't pushed back, they get pushed forwards automatically, but wouldn't be visible at all until their closing hours, just as with any other giveaway, and even then only on the recruiting giveaway list.
In fact, it would prevent group owners from abusing the system, spamming bumps. I spammed bumps and there's very little anyone could do about it. I just replied "Thanks :)" or "Good luck!" every time someone posted thanks on my forum post. Except I'd spread them out. So I responded to only one or two posts per day, keeping my GAs and my group in the top few of the forum. Even when there were many more posts I could have replied to. This change would prevent such abuse.
I hope that clears things up.
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That's a great idea! Let's change this site's name from SteamGifts to SteamPromotions too while we're at it.
Some people just don't understand what this site stands for...
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So an entire group recruitment forum. That doesn't exist?
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No. I think I put it quite well, here https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/SFMdflV
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But the rules prohibit such advertising and links, right?
And you want them to create an entire feature for something prohibited by this site's rules. You should be aware how wrong this is.
Group recruitment forum here is intended for "giveaway groups". Groups that focus on gifting games between their users.
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Easy there tiger! If you read down I think this would be one step in allowing all unauthorised external links be removed from the site as they'd no longer be necessary.
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Nope, already tired of people using this site as their own personal billboard to grow their business under pretense of "being generous."
You can already advertise in public and group giveaways, which pretty much covers all audiences. If you don't want to make public giveaways to advertise, that's your business, but don't expect the site to revolve around you building your business.
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This post pretty much says everything I need to say about it.
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I haven't streamed in almost 2 weeks. I'm not growing a business. You people are aggressive, tribal, paranoid idiots.
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You people are aggressive, tribal, paranoid idiots.
The irony is overwhelming. Hahaha.
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LOL Yeah, getting annoyed when people are rude to you and tell you they know your mind better than you do ... that's really aggressive. Hehe.
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I don't need to know your mind to read your past threads, your comments afterward to support, etc.
You calling anyone else rude at this point is amusing.
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One of the main points of this change would be to allow people to give stuff away through their groups with minimal advertising, no excuse to include loads of links on their posts etc. but at the same time streamline the whole process.
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I really don't get it. If you're unpopular, use another means, or use the rules already in place.
Everything you asked for seems redundant, but I recommend asking s**** or a**** how to be more popular XD
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[EDITED for clarity, hopefully 16:00 28/11/18]
TL;DR: The suggestion is to allow creators the OPTION of adding group giveaways [for groups with open memberships] to a "recruitment" group giveaway list which anyone can click on to view from the steamgifts home page. People who aren't members of the groups required to enter would be able to see all the giveaways on this list, though they'd still need to join the required groups to enter. This option would be available for steam groups with open membership only.
EDIT: Yes, the reason for this is that I want steamgifts to make my life easier and help me grown my group. You can read why in the comment I made here: https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/SFMdflV
Waffly version:
When creating a group giveaway, a user would select whether to make it "public" or "private" if all the groups listed on the givaway had open membership.
A private group giveaway would operate as now, and wouldn't be accessible to anyone who is not a member of the required groups without a direct link.
Public group giveaways would appear in a list which could be accessed from the steamgifts homepage via a link on the left hand side of the page. labelled "Group Recruiting" [or something similar], near where it now says "recommended" and "new".
[EDIT: My suggestion here is that these giveaways only appear when this option is clicked and in no other giveaway lists. Even the "all" giveaways list so this won't mean you will be spammed with group giveaways]
You'd still have to join the groups in question to enter these giveaways but wouldn't have to trawl through forums to find them.
If a user is not a member of the required groups, the page for a group giveaway would appear as any other giveaway (so they can see the cost/game/description etc) but with a disabled enter button. It should include links/buttons to join one or more of the required groups for the giveaway and to sync their steam account with steamgifts (which should also refresh the page).
This change would considerably lessen the burden of mods patrolling the forums, as many posts requiring moderation are advertising group giveaways. It would lessen data volumes and server traffic: no more need for bumps and thanks in the forums. It would make the site easier to use for both entrants and giveaway creators.
[NOTE: Apologies, I originally I suggested an option on the left called "whitelist" in the list. Then someone told me to replace whitelist with "group", as I had it wrong re what a whitelist was, so just replaced whitelist with group without checking to see there's an existing group option. My mistake. I have toothache atm and am not really with it!]
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