From Madmind Studio discord:
[7:38 AM] Hell Messenger: Hey guys and gals. We'll publish the announcement shortly, but basically Steam decided to "un-link" Agony and Agony: Unrated out of the blue, meaning that you no longer get the other when you buy one of them.
[7:38 AM] Hell Messenger: We're unable to link them using our tools, but we already contacted Steam to see what's going on and try to find a solution.
[7:39 AM] Hell Messenger: It's still 100% our intention for you to receive both versions. We'd never remove a game from your libraries.
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Steam discussion post saying the same thing: https://steamcommunity.com/app/879420/discussions/0/3182359786944175605/#c3182359786944841487
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If it's true that this was all on Steam's end, the devs need to sue for damages that this has clearly already caused them in a very short time. Steam should never be removing games from people's libraries.
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Can somebody confirm if that's true?
https://steamcommunity.com/app/879420/discussions/0/3182359786945044798/
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I don't see how it could happen without human interaction from Steam or the dev. I'm not buying the "Steam decided to "un-link" Agony and Agony: Unrated out of the blue" statement on discord. Need more info.
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Mr. Steam unlinking games and he could've gotten away with it too, if hadn't been for you meddling kids
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It can be true as both games were linked under one number.
But maybe Steam wanted to protect people that are not adults from 18+ Agony Unrated version or maybe some countries pushed them to do this? Some countries would probably not allow Steam to sell Agony Unrated in them like I think Germany and China as it is the same case with Lust from Beyond and that is why they are releasing Lust from Beyond: M Edition as that censured version can be put on Steam for Germany and China.
I hope the developers are not lying as they have some more games they are working on so laying would really cut into their profits and would not make sense money wise.
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Hello Martyrs!
A lot of you have been contacting us to report that Agony UNRATED has been removed from your libraries. We looked into it and found out that this is indeed the case and the two versions of the game (Agony and Agony: Unrated) were delinked by Steam.
As most of you know, until now, if you bought Agony you also received a copy of Agony UNRATED in your library. This was always our intended way to do this and that didn’t change. As some of you are also aware, games with themes similar to ours can often face some difficulties on this platform.
Unfortunately, we still don’t have full knowledge on why they were delinked and we’re unable to link the games again using our own tools, so we’re now in contact with Steam support to work out the solution that’ll satisfy everyone.
Stay tuned, as we’ll definitely announce any changes here and on our Discord.
Madmind Studio
https://steamcommunity.com/games/879420/announcements/detail/3105798593263869833
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Well... that is from an official Steam announcement posted by Madmind Studio, so how could it not be real lol
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Now I wonder.. About a week ago there was a little uproar regarding removing adult content from everlasting summer. Apparently due to direct request from steam. I didn't put too much attention to it - but apparently steam forced devs to do it because game was not marked as 18+ only..
This might be the same case. You buy censored version, yet you also receive +18 version in package. This might be in collision with steam policy.
I mean - there is a lot of porn on steam nowadays but it's marked as +18. Maybe that's the case?
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Yep, that sounds about right.
I REALLY don't see them removing it on purpose and then turning around and blaming it on Steam. How could they possibly benefit from doing that... it makes zero logical sense.
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I have a strong suspicion that it has to do with the adult rating as you and some others have mentioned as well as it not being allowed in some regions. I honestly don't think the devs lied about anything and Steam severed the package that was requested by the devs years ago due to it.
If the changes Steam made due to the things mentioned above are the reason, there's a good chance that some might not be able to get the game back.
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Do you know another cases, when a game was deleted from users Steam libraries. I remember a case, when a gama was replaced with its demo version, but I forgot its name.
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Why did Agony UNRATED disappear from your library?
Hello Martyrs!
A lot of you have been contacting us to report that Agony UNRATED has been removed from your libraries. We looked into it and found out that this is indeed the case and the two versions of the game (Agony and Agony: Unrated) were delinked by Steam.
As most of you know, until now, if you bought Agony you also received a copy of Agony UNRATED in your library. This was always our intended way to do this and that didn’t change. As some of you are also aware, games with themes similar to ours can often face some difficulties on this platform.
Unfortunately, we still don’t have full knowledge on why they were delinked and we’re unable to link the games again using our own tools, so we’re now in contact with Steam support to work out the solution that’ll satisfy everyone.
Stay tuned, as we’ll definitely announce any changes here and on our Discord.
Madmind Studio
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/487720/view/3094539594203856518
So it was Valve/Steam not the developers?
Edit: Nice try, Madmind Studio liars
https://steamcommunity.com/app/487720/discussions/0/3191366986194901393/
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Edit: Nice try, Madmind Studio liars
https://steamcommunity.com/app/487720/discussions/0/3191366986194901393/
That's just some pure unfounded bullshit
The mature tag theory makes the most sense
https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/qc8vCsJ
effin valve discount staff screwing with adult content, not the first time, like banning a top selling game for a day and similar
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Their comment:
"Hi, Steam didn't delete the game from the catalogue but rather severed it from Agony. We already explained that in the announcement.
When buying Agony you'd get UNRATED which was in a sort of a package with the title. It was removed from that package."
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It actually makes sense, in the Valve puritan way: getting an unrated version as a bonus after buying a censored one could be viewed as a problem (while getting the censored version after buying the uncensored one wouldn't cause any trouble I assume)
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The dev has stated they were unaware the games were seperated from the package and are reaching out to Steam support to find out what happened, so now we just wait. Hopefully this has a favorable outcome of it being put back in our library without any hassle.
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This is a message from the dev in reply to me:
Hell Messenger: atm we have a "solution" ready on our side, though it's not an elegant one, so we're hoping that Steam will either link them or propose a different solution
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I suppose the non elegant one is to give each person a key, one by one email them or something along those lines.
Still dont have game in library.
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Eh, I was thinking just make the game free for the next 48hrs-72hrs or so. Kind of quick and dirty and doesn't make everyone happy but they can be like, "Well we did this..." Then they could just do all the rest of the problem solving on a case-by-case basis.
Might cause them to lose a bit of profits short term but it's better to save face then to be the company that removed a game from everyone's library after 2 years? 3 years? Anyway, you get the idea.
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Free for all 18- for next 48-72 hours? What they were fighting, that's what they ran into again
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I keep trying to type this out but I feel like I sound like a prick... So I want to preface this by saying, "I AM NOT TRYING TO SOUND LIKE A PRICK!"
Now then, are you more satisfied with the solution the dev has chosen? In my region (USA) it is literally 0.75$, which considering the massive amount of money I have spent on steam is nothing at all. But I can't bring myself to do it because it's a game I already owned for free. Same basic rules have applied to me and the Skyrim-AE update (Bought the game originally, then bought the DLC [except Hearthfire], and then bought a copy of the LE just because it was about the same price as Hearthfire. THEN I bought a fresh copy of the Skyrim SE. I've already bought the damn game three times for PC and that's not even counting Xbox, PS3, and Switch versions! I'm not buying it again for a few mods and fishing...) Sorry, went on a tangent...
I know that MY solution wasn't really favorable either but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to solve the influx of the people like you and I that were angered by this. The idea of making it free for 48-72 hours would've eliminated the initial surge of people, and then I mentioned taking care of the rest by a case-by-case basis. So people a year from now that finally notice could message the Dev and they'd be like, "Oh it was a whole thing, we did ____ to help people out, show me proof of purchase of Agony and I'll send you a key for the Unrated version!"
Anyway, like I said 0.75$ or not I will not be purchasing the Unrated version, and I will also not be purchasing anything from this Dev in the future. Whether this was on Steam's end or not the whole thing is not a good look and I am an unsatisfied customer.
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Their "solution" seems to me more like a marketing scam since they're making money out of it. If they leave it like this forever it was probably intended from the start. Your solution wasn't bad but a case-by-case for an indie dev with hundred of thousands of customers, having to allocate manpower on it for years, maybe decades, doesn't sound possible unless they make it automatic.
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one of my Steam friends contacted support here the answer:
Message from customer support: Feb 22 at 14:30 Hello! Since the game is customized by the developer, it's best to contact them directly to find out details about their decision to uninstall the game and more information about the game's versions and status. You can contact Agony UNRATED support here. https://help.steampowered.com/wizard/HelpWithGameTechnicalIssue/?appid=879420 Thanks for using Steam, Goga J
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So devs answer about steam fails is liar right? Very vile act. ("game is customized by the developer")
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cool, steam says the developer did it and the developer says steam did it. hope they're talking to each other to bring it back. i wasn't particularly excited to play agony in particular (got it in humble spooky horror bundle 2019), but it’s clear that when i get around to playing it i should choose unrated. i figure it’ll be back before i get around to it anyway but i’ll keep watching this thread until that happens.
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Well sadly Steam isn't only a one person so the dev could really talk with someone from Steam
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well for anyone who didn't already have it and wants it, 90% off the price of either edition gets you both editions
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right, which is probably the issue steam was trying to solve -- people in certain countries aren't meant to have access to the unrated version. sucks for those people, especially if they didn't know they were getting around the ban with this package.
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Steam has said in the past it's up to the Dev's to do this unless it's a copyright issue. I feel the dev is full of S*
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Maybe, but I also can think of Steam being the "bad guy" in this case. These kind of games aren't allowed to be sold in germany and this bundle was kind of a "workaround" to buy the uncut version. So Steam decided to remove the offer - and because it's easier, revoke all keys instead of checking if the bundlke was bought in germany.
It's just my theory, but we will never know who's to blame.
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removed the game and asked people to buy it again lol also claiming its just 0.15 but its 0.75
and if they can just do this and get away with it nothing proves it wont happen again
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Not sure what the dev has to gain from doing this. Steam has been getting worse and worse with censorship. I'd say this is Steam's doing entirely and the anger should be directed towards them. Granted, the devs 'solution' to this problem is pretty weak, Steam should NEVER be removing purchased games from player's accounts.
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This. All the dev backlash based on super reliable info (sarcasm) from Steam Support staff has been sad to see (although not entirely unexpected with the shadiness of other devs). I understand Valve's position, too, since they don't want to be legally culpable if it is indeed a mature content bypass issue, but there should be a better solution, as well as transparent communication from Valve with the purchasers.
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Using the tools available to us, we tried to find a solution that would be the best for you - players - in this situation. Therefore, we’ll create a special Bundle in which every Agony owner has a 95+% discount on Agony UNRATED (which is the lowest value you can discount that game by) so that the "upgrade" to the unrated version will cost as little as possible. This is the best solution we can think of that’s within our reach, though we’re still in talks with Steam, trying to find another way to resolve this issue.
Let's have some fun with math:
We're looking at a max theoretical value of 124000€ in additional income for Madmind Studio out of this "solution". Clearly, not everyone bought it from Europe and not everyone will rebuy the UNRATED version so it's safe to assume we're actually looking at a lower value but still enough to matter.
Even at 99% discount, we're looking at a max theoretical value of 24980€ in additional income.
Regardless of the sugar coating, said solution seems to be a stunt to stuff some pockets.
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So what do we have? €1000, maybe 2000?
If this would be a cashgrab from the devs, why even bother with the bundle?
and why put UNRATED at 85% for everyone at the same time
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I don't give a flying fuck they have to pay taxes out of that free money. The upper limit was the one mentioned. The real amount depends on how many acted on their clever "solution".
My guess is that, eventually, after no more sales will register, they'll give it back for free in whatever shape or form. You can't possibly deny they made a good amount of money out of this incident, money they wouldn't have made otherwise.
Splitting hairs on how they have to pay VAT, platform fees, income tax or whatever else is pointless since we are in fact the ones paying for it. I don't believe we should condone such behavior and give in to such actions that are borderline ransomware.
But, in the end, everyone is free to do whatever they want and spend their money however they feel like.
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that "they made a good amount of money out of this incident" is EXACTLY what I'm denying.
Counting "theoretical income" based on assumption everyone who has bought Agony will buy UNRATED now is like publishers saying that "every pirated copy of a game, is a lost sale"
fees and and taxes are secondary here, but they do affect the "amount of money out of this incident"
And if we're in greedy corporations conspiracy area, you could also say that Valve is not providing the devs with a better solution, because they want their 30% of this sweet "theoretical income"
But the greed theory stops being sensible once you stop throwing values like hundreds thousands of euro's around?
let's not split hair here, take €0.5 a sale on average (the three bundles are priced at €1.3, €0.96, and €0.56 according to steamdb, but you only pay half, because you own censored Agony, I paid 1.12 PLN ~€0,25)
How many sales would you need to offset the bad reputation, and cost of work of people handling the incident?
if half of the people affected buy it, it's €50k (maybe €30k after fees and taxes)
ok, maaaaybe some greedy corporation would try it
but half of the people is waaay too optimistic, I think even 20% is not a realistic number
So there's more like somewhere around €10k to be gained. Is that "a good amount of money"? For a gamedev company? Even small one?
Finally:
"why put UNRATED at 85% for everyone at the same time"
if you goal is to get money out of it, why sell cheaper to non-owners?
You haven't responded to that
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So there's more like somewhere around €10k to be gained. Is that "a good amount of money"? For a gamedev company? Even small one?
You seem very adamant on defending them reselling products they already sold and making profit out of it, the very same products that suddenly disappeared from buyers' libraries only to reappear available to be rebought for an amazing 95% discount.
Are you somehow related to them or part of their studio or just a very supportive fan like those being "grateful" they had access to the game while it was in their library?
Either way, I have better things to do than trying to convince you these practices are dishonest and illegal in many places. Feel free to continue in your pursuit of defending such amazing devs. I'll stop entertaining this discussion.
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What an amazing solution... There's just a small detail they overlooked, the 95% off bundle can't be bought in 26 steam regions.
If you are from Russia, Brazil, Indonesia, Philippines, Thailand, Vietnam, Turkey, Ukraine, Mexico, China, India, Chile, Peru, Colombia, South Africa, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Saudi Arabia, Argentina, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Qatar, Uruguay, South Asia or CIS regions you can't buy the bundle.
https://steamdb.info/bundle/8997/
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I see, sorry I misunderstood the technical details. It is just a steam store purchase restriction.
I find the whole thing ridiculous btw, just because it is cheap, thousands of people will pay for something they got for free in the past and the devs will make at least 25k€ out of nowhere.
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Same. It says I already own 2 out of 2 products in the bundle.
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What a stupid situation. Solution to buy something again is not a solution. Also does not understand how steam can give free hand or even force to remove something post factum. It is just a steal from developer and/or a steam. Steam should force such thing only for future buys not old ones. This packet should be as it was. It should be removed from shop and then made new one without unrated. This way it would be separated but PPL who bought it before would still have it in account. Also alternative solution would be to make something like login on their page with steam and if someone has basic version would get unrated by free.
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+1 they could've also made teh bundle free for those who owned the game or just made the game free for like 2 days , its not like the game is selling well or new
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Yes I agree with this. Fine by me if they prevent this situation from happening again with future bundles, but messing with an already existing bundle - and thereby removing paid games from peoples libraries without warning - should never be the case.
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Some examples of the way some devs deal with these types of issues. Both indie devs. Just thought I would share these two instances I remember of a similar situation. I certainly will not buy anything from the Agony devs.
Accidental revokes - Evolvation https://steamcommunity.com/app/510840/eventcomments/1635292137556498014?snr=2_9_100003_
You see here the game dev takes alot of time to try and make things right with the players who had their keys revoked. Failing at what they tried firstly they simply make the game free for a limited time. This is how the game is in my library, it was free for I think a week.
Again, Accidental key revokes - In Game Adventure: Legend of Monsters https://steamcommunity.com/app/640970/discussions/0/1759104257586683123/?tscn=1532468205
Once again, the dev takes their time to make things right with the players who had keys revoked. The revoked key I had was from Giveaway Su site, I got a replacement from the dev.
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As some of you probably remember, Agony Unrated was given away for free for all Agony owners
https://steamcommunity.com/games/487720/announcements/detail/1688180897603879445
Now the dev changed their mind and decided to revoke Unrated game from all Agony owners who got it for free
Update 1 The dev reacted:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/879420/discussions/0/3182359786945044798/
Update 2
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/487720/view/3094539594215952980
Let's have some fun with math:
We're looking at a max theoretical value of 124000€ in additional income for Madmind Studio out of this "solution". Clearly, not everyone bought it from Europe and not everyone will rebuy the UNRATED version so it's safe to assume we're actually looking at a lower value but still enough to matter.
Even at 99% discount, we're looking at a max theoretical value of 24980€ in additional income.
UltraMaster(c)
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