And that ladies and gentlemen is part of why I don't pre-order.
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i dont get why pay for a product unless you can test it
thats how all scams start.
but too bad for the fans, theyve been waiting for years
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I can understand pre-ordering something physical, because it can actually run out of stock (I do this with art books, I'm a collector), especially when they're limited releases. But why would anyone pre-order something digital? What's the logic behind that? It doesn't run out.
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I assume most people that do it are in it for pre-order bonuses (whenever those exist).
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The pre-order bonus are being incomplete and buggy.
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Well, I'm also of the belief that pre-order bonuses shouldn't be put behind a paywall, but in the actual game for everyone. If people would stop pre-ordering games, they would also stop making bonuses exclusive.
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The sole act of purchasing something you really want is pleasurable by itself, not to mention knowing that from now on you actually own that something (sure, it's not released yet, but it's already yours). There's nothing wrong with that. Not every reason must be practical. Also, an adult financially independent person might simply want to support a developer they trust; it's basically the same logic as with supporting an interesting project on Kickstarter, only with a guarantee that you're actually getting something and an opportunity to refund at any time before a release.
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Good for you. There are also reasons why and when a pre-order could do good. Depending on the dev it really can help with funds getting the game where it has to go or just simply by putting faith in a dev. Or maybe get early acces you might want...
I pre-order when I have money to blow mostly. By the time the game gets released it feels like a free game. (Yes I know thats BS).
And why not pre-order? It has zero risk. You can get a refund when a game gets canned (like this one) or if it's not the game you wanted it to be. I'm not a member of "never pre-order" club. It's nonsense. Everybody is capable of deciding for themselves if it's worth it. (Not directed at you, just in general).
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Everyone is capable of deciding for themselves indeed. For me tho it's the kind of thing, whether I get my money back or not, it ends up pissing me off. Considering I want this game to happen more than people wanted Cyberpunk to happen, I don't want to put myself in a situation where I feel burned and turn my back.
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You're writing this as if those who've pre-ordered the game have lost something, like their money was stolen. Actually, I did pre-order it, but after one of the news about yet another developer fired I just canceled it, it's simple and fast; and now all the purchases are being refunded. I mean, sure, valid arguments against pre-order do exist (just like there are certain advantages in such an option), but this exact episode is not about perils of pre-order at all.
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Don't take my post the wrong way like I'm trashing people who did pre-order, that's not the intent. Also as I said, it's only part of the reason. To me though, this is like a broken promise, and I hate broken promises.
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Probably a case of what was turning into any other mediocre game, soon to meet with the impossible standards the fixed version of the original left in peoples memories.
I feel it's fate will be beside system shock.
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Vampire: The Masquerade series seems to be cursed somehow. The initial Bloodlines was a hot mess at its release date and that persisted for years on end, until a dedicated community of modders stepped in to repair and even improve the game. I never expected Bloodlines 2 to be stuck in development hell though...
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Good move, i better wait and play a good game.. i well remember the Imperator: Rome Pre-Alpha release. o.O
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I think they want to avoid the trouble cyberpunk went (is going) through...
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it was in the logo the whole time
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And there she blows... going under. I really hoped that the departure of Cara Ellison wouldn't mean that the project is completely doomed, but here we are.
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When they fired Avellone for some accusations that were later proven to be false I knew they were doomed
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Haha, same thing also gonna happen with techland and dying light 2 (sadly)
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+1
Firing someone for unproven accusations makes leadership look skittish (a mouse pretending to be a lion), but getting rid of their contributions as well is just a waste of time and money. Wonder how their publishers felt about them burning money like that.
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Just did a quick search and looks like there is a reasonable amount of evidence to suggest the accusations were BS: https://www.reddit.com/r/pcgaming/comments/hop3w6/chris_avellone_new_layer_about_the_story/
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He wasn't proven innocent on a court of law because he was never accused on front of a judge. But the original accusation was a woman that claimed Avallone wanted to go inside her room, and he only relented when she said she was on her period.
OK...? Not the most rapey ever if he left on his own.
The problem was that later it was revealed that she had a roommate. "You can't enter because I have a roommate?" sounds much better to avoid a supposed rapist than "You can't enter because I am on my period?". Why didn't she use it? Moreover the roommate mentioned that she was awake and when the supposed "victim" entered, she said how much of a gentleman Avallone was. Which, sorry, but doesn't make any sense if he had wanted to rape her a few minutes before
So, unless the truth is quite weird, or occam's razor says he is innocent.
But as in Night in the wood' developer, the truth came too late
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it doesnt really look like the claims were disproved by that to me. saying a public figure is a gentleman after an incident like that seems like the safest option if she thought he was a threat to her and her career. im not saying he did it, but i dont believe that this "evidence" is useful in exonerating him.
I also had not heard the the night in the woods dev was proven innocent either. it looked like he killed himself out of guilt, which is still unfortunate.
thanks for the info regardless
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Writing in your Twitter handle that Avellone was a gentleman, doesn't make any sense if there was any kind of trouble. It wasn't like there were witnesses to the incident that made Avellone nervous, or that Avellone demanded anything from her. I mean, in history, it's not like I have to search for clues about a person's innocence before destroying his life. It's the other side that has to prove they are guilty.
And about Alec Holowka, the proof he was innocent is even more overwhelming.
He was a acussed by (infamous) Zoë Quinn of keeping her prisoner in his house (she heavily implied he sexually abused her) for days, till she asked a friend of hers, who bought a plane ticket and she slipped on her captivity and escaped. When she said that, inmediately all her fans and her friends on the gaming media believed her. He was fired from the company he created, ortracised, and then he killed himself. The problem? Do you know what Zoë Quinn was also doing when she was supposedly a prisoner? Tweeting. Dozens of tweets each day, talking about her work with Alec Holowka, how much he inspired her, how much work they were doing together... And do you know the time she was buying a plane ticket in secret? He was tweeting about it days before, asking for friends to pick her up talking about her plans when she left.
First thing she did when she took the plane? Thanking Alec Holowka for her wonderful experience. Days or weeks after thst time he was still publicly talking with him on Twitter.
So sorry. But there is just no way he was guilty. He was just a victim of the cancel culture that just enjoys destroying lives, not reaching for the truth? Why did Zoë Quinn do that? Usually it could be many reasons. She could be bored she could be crazy she could be wanting more attention, internet karma... But it seems to be just money. She had a kickstarter going on, and it had been more than a year since her last update, and even some of her backers were starting to ask questions. After this, who could be callous to ask questions to a victim of sexual Assault?
Why didn't you hear about this? Well, to be brutally honest, because Zoë Quinn has friends in all the game journos. Not to mention, they are a strong clique (all those websites, kotaku, polygon even had a secret private mailing list where they coordinated attacks against all their enemies, and coordinated their common editorial content, before it was all leaked, by the Escapist writers, I believe). So when a small website revealed the truth (I admit it wasn't that difficult, they only had to read all her tweets, something however all the game journos didn't even bother to do) the website received continuous DDOS attacks on their website, and the biggest websites just quickly killed the story and never again talked about it.
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publicly facing tweets don't exactly disprove anything either. I don't see a reason not to believe her. not because they were nice to each other on twitter, and he knew that she was moving. she could have told him that she was leaving for any number of reasons that wouldn't alert him to be mad at her about it. and certainly, there is no requirement that they need to be in a public fight for anything zoe quinn said to be true.
you are welcome to not believe her; a lot of people don't. but no accusations were "proven false". there is some super weak circumstantial evidence that actually confirms the timeline that zoe quinn laid out in her accusation. night in the woods was universally loved by gaming outlets when it released as well so a conspiracy by all game journalists to frame him for rape seems like a stretch. As you say... occam's razor.
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Well personally, the problem is that she lied. Either she lied when she said in Twitter "I have just bought the ticket. Thank you all" or she lied when she wrote "I had to ask a friend in secret to buy me a ticket because I was a prisoner" . If she was a prisoner she wouldn't write it on Twitter it just doesn't make any sense.
When information came to light about the contradiction, she closed her Twitter account. Why? Wasn't she she saying the truth? And this is not the first time she wasn't untruthful. In her own words once she donated blood, but lied and didn't say that she had unsafe sex the day before. She talked about it on her former Twitter account and when her own fans told her that was actually a felony, she closed her former Twitter account and stayed off Twitter for a year.
"night in the woods was universally loved by gaming outlets when it released as well so a conspiracy by all game journalists to frame him for rape seems like a stretch" I never said they framed him. I said that days after the "false" report had been made, days after Holowka had killed himself, when new, conflicting information had came out,, that maybe an innocent person was dead, they should have reported it. Normal newspapers do that. It's the ethical thing to do. The reason they didn't, was that they regularly coordinate themselves, they talk to each other and they protect each other, as the game journo mailing list that was leaked proved. And they are all friends with Zoë Quinn, even working together in many projects, and appearing in the credits, which is a huge conflict of interest they refuse to acknowledge. So, instead of bothering a friend, they just... stopped reported a story, and let people believe an innocent person was guilty.
At the end, if he had any accusations, Zoë Quinn should have gone to the police, which she never did. Not use mob justice and cancel culture. Because an innocent person is dead. And I say innocent person, because I believe a person is innocent till proven guilty, which is case of of any civilised country on earth.
Pd: I was very politely disagreeing with you, and I believe I never disrespected you. I don't understand why you would blacklist me just for a disagreement. Oh, well.
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The bits I heard about the game up until now made it sound like a heavily watered down (both in story and content) experience compared to the original. So this might be a good thing.
Hopefully when/if it gets released it turns out to be an extremely violent, insane, content rich experience.
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Yet another case why people should not preorder games.
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Just that this is actually an example of a company doing the right thing, with no loss at for anyone who pre-ordered.
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The next Duke Nukem Forever.
This and Dead Island 2.
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Can't say I am that surprised, the gameplay video they showed last year looked really rough. If the promo material looked that janky, I can't imagine what the game was like.
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I loved the first, had 0 hype towards 2nd. So many things can happen until a game gets released, and even the release state can be...troublesome, as we'be seen. I hope eventually it will turn out to be a working and good game, but we're just back to the start line of having nothing to show, and even less to promise which is a big thing in the gaming world that loves promises.
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After being royally burned with Cyberpunk 2077, I'm perfectly fine with this. It's better if the game never comes out, rather than being released as mediocre, broken and unfinished. Plenty of other well-polished stuff to play.
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If most people were smart preorder wouldnt be a thing.
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Welcome to the human race, our motto is: most people aren't smart.
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I mean, referencing Steam announcements is problematic to begin with, given how they're an oft-ignored secondary announcement format for nearly every single publisher, but that's going to be especially true for an unreleased game that has already refunded preorders (as there's no meaningful platform commitments).
Here's the news that's been presented through standard mediums, that you may have overlooked:
October '21: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/paradox-considered-cancelling-vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-2
November '21: https://www.pcgamer.com/paradox-is-happy-with-the-progress-of-bloodlines-2-but-wont-reveal-who-is-making-it/
In summary, it's only been 3 months without any news (though how constructive or meaningful the news we've gotten has been is another matter).
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The last I saw about this was back in November, when they said that it was in the hands of a new developer and they were happy with the progress. They didn't want to disclose what developer that was... (even though it's most likely Harebrained Schemes)
The fact that they didn't even want to say what dev it was says a lot about how little faith they have in the project. I would honestly just give up on this game. If it ever does come out it's most likely going to be bad, and that's a giantatic "if" to begin with.
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Paradox has pulled development of Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 from Hardsuit Labs, delayed the game indefinitely and cancelled pre-orders.
In a statement, Paradox said "in order to meet our goals for it, we've come to the conclusion that a change is needed and, as a result, more development time is required".
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 will now not release in 2021 as planned. And without a developer announced as taking over, the wait could be a long one.
Full article here
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