So, you accept only two option - friendliness and hate? Only black and white? No grayscale?
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I accept your opinion. However grayscale is not indifference.
The fact that you criticised, I must assume you already have something against her or her views, hence the question.
Acceptance doesn't imply agreement.
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So, you understand, that criticism is not equal to hate. Good. And yep, I have a lot of something against pseudo-scientific tales, that Greta try to popularize
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Feel free to come back once you are ready to have a constructive critique to make, instead of an opinion stuck in your head without facts or arguments.
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Do you decide, that "an opinion stuck in my head without facts or arguments." self or somebody said it to you?
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This is great, but what will really make a difference is large-scale regulatory changes. Make sure you are voting, and make sure your representatives are pushing accountability on corporations who pollute en masse and outsource their jobs to countries with even fewer environmental regulations. We can all do our part, Let's make sure the biggest offenders start doing their's too!
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I agree with this point. Support the people who care for the environment.
Added this point to the thread :)
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[Dangerous High School Girls in Trouble](https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/2FIBc/dangerous-high-school-girls-in-trouble) | thenthomwaslike | Level 3 | 4 Feb
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Some points contradict each other, some are controversial.
don't obsess over it
Is the best advice :) Everything in moderation.
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You've taken that out of context. Unfortunately for the subject at hands, we don't have much time for moderation. We'd be dead before the chance to recover the damage done to our planet.
Which points do you think are contradictions? Happy to discuss it.
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Which points do you think are contradictions?
Using less plastic, buying durable goods and not bying real leather. First of all, eco leather is a plastic. Secondly, it's less durable than real leather. I've had a couple of fake leather bags and within a year they both looked like crap. While most of my real leather shoes are 5-10 years old and still looking good. (I'm not saying tanning is eco friendly, but it has more to do with irresponsible people who dump waste into rivers. And for me it beats microplastics.)
While animal husbandry may be a big contributor to global warming, I don't think it's a problem with the animal husbandry itself, but the way we do it. We just need to find better ways :) Horticulture can be equally as bad. Rice farming, for instance, is a huge source of methane. Many people use fertilisers and pesticides irresponsibly.
As for poor animals, I can both love and care for animals, and enjoy a steak. It is possible :) You just have to treat animals with respect. Do I mind geese being force-fed at foie gras farms? Sure, I do. Would I mind if they used more humane methods where no one is force-fed? Not really. And again, eating meat itself is not good/bad, what's bad is buying, cooking more than you need and throwing spoiled food afterwards. Besided we don't get just meat from it. Also leather (see above why prefer it over fake leather). They used to make insulin from pigs' pancreas, bovine blood has many uses in medicine as well. It's not just black and white.
And sometimes a less eco-friendly option is actually more eco-friendly. And old working "not eco-friendly" car is better than the newest and eco-frienliest electric cars. Same with other tech. Keep using your old things, it's less footprint that way. And all the green energy is not entirely green. There's a problem of load balancing. You either have to use batteries (which is not eco-friendly) or build pumped-storage plants (which you have to destroy an area for) or use peaking power plants (which usually burn gas/coal). Flywheel looks interesting, but I haven't digged much into it, so I don't know much about it.
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While animal husbandry may be a big contributor to global warming, I don't think it's a problem with the animal husbandry itself, but the way we do it. We just need to find better ways
It all comes down to overpopulation IMO.
Animal husbandry to feed 10 thousand people? Negligible impact on planet Earth. You can even use charcoal for electricity and throw plastic bags away any place you want. Animal husbandry to feed 10 billion people? RIP. And forget about plastic bags.
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Using less plastic, buying durable goods and not bying real leather. First of all, eco leather is a plastic. Secondly, it's less durable than real leather. I've had a couple of fake leather bags and within a year they both looked like crap. While most of my real leather shoes are 5-10 years old and still looking good. (I'm not saying tanning is eco friendly, but it has more to do with irresponsible people who dump waste into rivers. And for me it beats microplastics.)
It is not ok to hurt cows because in your mind the real leather lasts longer than the fake, it really says how warped society is regarding respect for other species.
Considering plastic is one of the most durable materials, I do not think that argument is even true. And my experience confirms it. Perhaps you are buying from the wrong places. Cheap china made might not be so good, but a proper manufacturer will have a very good durability. The best is actually made from pineapple fibres.
Additionally, plastic does not instantly equal to microbeads. It is used in the cosmetics and it has no association to the fake leather.
A much bigger problem than fake leather, is microfiber pollution, which I bet you have most at your home and clothing. Including not only contaminating the oceans, but food.
While animal husbandry may be a big contributor to global warming, I don't think it's a problem with the animal husbandry itself, but the way we do it. We just need to find better ways :) Horticulture can be equally as bad. Rice farming, for instance, is a huge source of methane. Many people use fertilisers and pesticides irresponsibly.
I don’t think you know how much impact animal farming has on the planet. It is not even feasible in the long term, as you start to see in the news. I’ve stated the facts too many times, but read this article for a general overview.
As such, plant farming has a lot more opportunity to evolve. Inevitable for our survival. Invest time to understanding about vertical farming, permaculture, aquaponics, etc.
As for poor animals, I can both love and care for animals, and enjoy a steak. It is possible :) You just have to treat animals with respect. Do I mind geese being force-fed at foie gras farms? Sure, I do. Would I mind if they used more humane methods where no one is force-fed? Not really. And again, eating meat itself is not good/bad, what's bad is buying, cooking more than you need and throwing spoiled food afterwards. Besided we don't get just meat from it. Also leather (see above why prefer it over fake leather). They used to make insulin from pigs' pancreas, bovine blood has many uses in medicine as well. It's not just black and white.
For your to enjoy your steak, somebody’s son is killed. How is eating meat not bad? in what world? Would you eat your dog/cat? It's also meat.
You definition of loving animals is: as long as I care for my pets, it is justifiable to kill cows and pigs, because I like their meat, but not my dog’s. That’s twisted love. What kind of human being thinks this way?
Not to mention the health consequences it has on you.
If buying is indeed bad, why do you do it? have the decency to grow and kill your own.
Here's a black and white for you: Humanity have absolutely no chance of survival with current practices. It just delaying the inevitable, and it is unfortunate that most don’t see it that way.
And sometimes a less eco-friendly option is actually more eco-friendly. And old working "not eco-friendly" car is better than the newest and eco-frienliest electric cars. Same with other tech. Keep using your old things, it's less footprint that way. And all the green energy is not entirely green. There's a problem of load balancing. You either have to use batteries (which is not eco-friendly) or build pumped-storage plants (which you have to destroy an area for) or use peaking power plants (which usually burn gas/coal). Flywheel looks interesting, but I haven't digged much into it, so I don't know much about it.
Have you forgotten how fuel cars burn exactly that, fuel? It is not what the car is made of that pollutes the most, but its many years of service after that.
Not only electric cars pollute absurd amounts less, but they have been proven to be much more durable long term. In addition, replacing the battery usually every >10 years is nothing comparing to replacing parts every year for a fuel car, or worse, trashing the car completely because it broke beyond repair. Batteries are also totally recycle. The market is growing to recycle each one of them, as demand grows. There is also a big potential to repurpose them.
I honestly hope you spend more time doing research.
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it really says how warped society is regarding respect for other species.
For your to enjoy your steak, somebody’s son is killed. How is eating meat not bad? in what world? Would you eat your dog/cat? It's also meat.
Wow, really? Are tigers and wolves fucked up creatures for eating meat and not caring for the feelings of their prey? It amazes me how in all these threads meat-eaters are treated as the scum of the planet. Heck, vegans even bash vegetarians for eating eggs and milk. Please, loathe me more, it's a sure way to win an opponent. Btw, what about people who live in the Arctic whose diet is mostly meat? They should probably just die, shouldn't they? (Along with all the poor, because they have no money to buy organic food, so they support all the evil corporations who treat animals poorly, right?)
Considering plastic is one of the most durable materials
There's a difference (not sure what the right terms are) between molecular durability and the end product durability. I can poke a plastic bag with a finger. Wouldn't call that durable. Just because a small portion of plastic goods is more durable, it doesn't justify the majority of it being of poor quality.
plastic does not instantly equal to microbeads
Who's talking about microbeads? I was talking about microplastics in general. Every plastic breaks to smaller pieces.
I don’t think you know how much impact animal farming has on the planet. It is not even feasible in the long term
I tell you eating meat doesn't make you a bad person, but the current practice of meat production is bad. You tell me the current practice of meat production is bad. Who are you arguing exactly? And you seem to ignore the fact that plant farming can (and does) use poor prectices as well.
Invest time to understanding about vertical farming, permaculture, aquaponics, etc.
I have more than 30 plants growing hydroponically at home :) And I've read a fair amount of books on the subject, so I believe I know a thing or two :)
have the decency to grow and kill your own.
Ahh, assumptions again. Little do you know, but I did. I've spend my childhood on a farm during summers. We had cows (during a couple of years also bulls), chickens, geese, pigs, rabbits. I did feed them are cared for them. We also had several dogs and cats, but didn't eat them (sorry if I dissapointed you). We also had 0.5 ha field and a 0.1 ha garden with fruits and vegetables.
Would you eat your dog/cat?
Would you have sex with your sister/mother/father/brother? It's the same fucked up comparison as yours.
Have you forgotten how fuel cars burn exactly that, fuel? It is not what the car is made of that pollutes the most, but its many years of service after that.
If you re-read I was talking about buying newest bestest eco-friendliest thing when you still have a perfectly working less eco-friendly thing.
Foorprint = (cost of production) + (cost of expluatation/maintanence).
Yes, a fuel car has bigger (cost of expluatation/maintanence), but it's already produced. While you still have to make an electric car. So it's (cost of expluatation/maintanence) vs (cost of production) + (cost of expluatation/maintanence). Do the math yourself.
Also my point was that people think of these eco products as a magical solution with no strings attached. When in fact it's not.
And just to blew you mind completely - I recycle, don't have a car, use public transport, rarely eat meat, go shopping with a reusable bag which is more than 10 years old.
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Are tigers and wolves fucked up creatures for eating meat and not caring for the feelings of their prey? It amazes me how in all these threads meat-eaters are treated as the scum of the planet. Heck, vegans even bash vegetarians for eating eggs and milk. Please, loathe me more, it's a sure way to win an opponent.
I think you are making yourself look like one now.
You are comparing a natural habitat to a massively organised animal farming. Besides, nature was here first, we should nether interfere, neither compare the monstrosity acts of humans by the effects of industrialisation to what happens naturally.
Do wolves and tigers have farms and grow their own pigs and cows at the thousands/millions per year? I don’t think so.
If you were one, I would let you be killed in your natural habitat too. Sorry.
This your best argument to win an 'opponent'?
Btw, what about people who live in the Arctic whose diet is mostly meat? They should probably just die, shouldn't they? (Along with all the poor, because they have no money to buy organic food, so they support all the evil corporations who treat animals poorly, right?)
Their impact on earth is minimal comparing to the rest of us living in developed countries.
Do you think the Inuit go to the supermarket to buy dead animals? Remember animal farming? Remember natural habitats?
There's a difference (not sure what the right terms are) between molecular durability and the end product durability. I can poke a plastic bag with a finger. Wouldn't call that durable. Just because a small portion of plastic goods is more durable, it doesn't justify the majority of it being of poor quality.
Your response was against the fake leather, which usually is made from PVC, but recent developments has it made using better materials, and as I said the most recent is the pineapple fibres. PVC is recyclable and repurposed.
Have you seen any fake leather clothing made from plastic bags?
You completely ignored the fact that real leather is not durable, thus is less environment friendly. Not to mention animals getting killed.
Who's talking about microbeads? I was talking about microplastics in general. Every plastic breaks to smaller pieces.
I agree with this point, which is why I mentioned the microfibres.
Would you have sex with your sister/mother/father/brother? It's the same fucked up comparison as yours.
So you are saying since I do not contribute to the killing of animals, because I respect them, including my pets... I would have sex with other family members? Do you think everyone is lunatic?
You see people that fought slavery for centuries, because they were treated as scum, although they were humans as everybody else? Well cows, pigs and chickens are also animals with the right to live, same as your pets. Except they don’t have a say in the matter (for their freedom). Worst of all, they are not as lucky to be somebody’s pets as yours.
And just to blew you mind completely - I recycle, don't have a car, use public transport, rarely eat meat, go shopping with a reusable bag which is more than 10 years old.
You did. And I ask the same, who are you arguing exactly?
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It all comes down to overpopulation IMO.
What's your solution, then? We need to colonize other planets ASAP :)
At some point neither meat nor plant farming won't be able to feed all the people. And one child policy hasn't really worked out for China.
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What's your solution, then?
I don't have one :( The 2 only possible outcomes are World War 3 or people starting to make only 1 child per couple, like China used to do. Option 2 is actually somewhat possible, as it is something that we tend to (to some extent, at least <2 children per woman) in Western countries.
We need to colonize other planets ASAP :)
Won't do much good. When population doubles every X year, a new planet only brings X more years (assuming that new planet can host as many people as the first planet, which is a very, very long shot)
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Thank you so much for all the effort and the giveaways ❤️
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I'm glad someone made an effort on this. There's also some things that are not mention on the energy/transport which are one of the most damaging sectors.
You can get a 100% renewable energy suply, many companies already have this option, if you want to go more extreme, you can buy and install photovotaic panels at your home, paired with some batteries you can be almost energy independent.
Why this? Most of our electricity production still takes a consideral amount of fossil fuels to be produced and as such its important to keep that bad stuff on the ground.
Using a electric vehicle can reduce up to 80% the emissions for the same distance (vs combustion), if you can, use the train instead or use a bike/walk.
Ahh, that bio-diesel? Uses mostly palm oil... which they are destroying tropical rainforest and habitats to make way for planting it...
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Totally. I've included the renewable energy suggestion ;)
Are there many vehicles using bio-diesel? Haven't thought about that in a long time.
Most people on steamgifts are probably not in a situation where they can generate their own energy, however if you'd like to expand I will include that information as well. Sadly, I don't know much about solar energy.
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In Europe, a portion of normal diesel that we use is bio-fuel thats essencially palm-oil. Thats why switching to electric veicules is so important and why most brands/governments are banning diesels everywhere, this is the hidden truth behind 'clean diesel'.
"Drivers in Europe are forced (most of the time without their knowledge) to fill up their diesel cars with palm oil biodiesel."
https://www.transportenvironment.org/what-we-do/biofuels/why-palm-oil-biodiesel-bad
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Thanks for this information. It is really saddening to discover palm oil being used almost everywhere now. I didn't become aware of it for years :/
At least the UK does not use palm oil for biodiesel. I'm surprised to see this happening in EU, given the environment laws are usually pretty good.
Due to its critical nature, I've added a palm oil section as well.
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About solar energy, basically you get some solar panels on the roof of your house, which they produce electricity that runs your house (partly or fully), the system manages the intake of electricity from the panels/battery and the grid.
You can have solar panles without the battery, so in this case if your house is using 3kW and the panels are producing 2kW, the system will intake 1kW of the grid, and it will keep ajusting it to preferably use the grid as the last option (this will save you money and lower your emissions).
If your panels are producing more than your house needs, you can export that extra to the grid (making money) or storing it on a battery for latter use.
If you have a battery in that system, the surplus from the panels that your house isnt using goes into the battery, and you will use that surplus first instead of intaking from the grid (like in the example i gave).
In this case, the 'battery' can be your car. If you are home and not using the car, and there is a surplus of electricity, you can set the system to only charge the car with the surplus.
There is a video in here that shows exactly this, dont mind the tesla publicity, the video is very good to understand it:
https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/learn/how-powerwall-works
I know this, because i've been doing research to install it on my house, the prices are a bit high, so saving a bit first.
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I love that you can use the surplus to store it or use it on the electric car :)
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A similar solution should be devised, using wind to generate energy in colder climates. Sadly, as far as I am aware, there is no such thing as wind panels to put in homes 🍃
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Hey guys,
Hopefully this doesn’t turn into a hostile discussion. The objective is just to raise awareness. Please keep the negativity to yourself.
If we all change a little, the world would be so much better.
Unfortunately not everybody thinks about what goes on with the environment behind the scenes. Our behaviours, including the choices we make can be disruptive or worse destructive to something else (it/they). I believe most don’t think or understand the consequences that their decisions or purchases in life has on the planet and other species.
While growing up I made the same choices as everybody else, regardless of what they implied. Part of it was culture, or family traditions, which does make your opinions very narrow.
I’ve always been a person that identified with nature, although I was never much of an outdoor person. Even then I thought I was doing enough. Sadly it couldn’t be further from the truth.
You’ve probably heard recently on how the Amazonian forest is on fire. This is critical. I am frustrated because, the news only went public after 3 weeks of it happening and still going. Covering it, or in fact ignoring it is not the solution. You’ve got to understand that what is destroyed won’t grow back. Entire species of plants and animals are at risk. This one is tied to deforestation due to all the meat consumption around the world. Absurd amounts of animals are killed everyday to support our addictions. To grow more and more. To put into perspective, If your pet, dog or cat would be treated or killed like many animals do every single day, you would be happy with that? It is ok to kill cows or pigs, but not your property right? Finding mothers losing their sons every day is such a sad thought.
This is not the only issue by all means. A grave issue has been happening with the coral reefs. We lost 40% of it already, FOREVER! For those of you who don't know, these are critical for all ocean life. Ultimately if affects us too, of course.
At least with this problem now, it could be an opportunity to once again bring awareness to everyone.
Unfortunately a big culprit is the greediness of these companies that think having more profit is more important than the environment. Since when did we come to that? Are they telling me that money (which is a virtual thing), is more important than survival? Why would money matter if we are all sick or dead?
Remember, the power is within the people, not the business, neither the politicians!
Loving animals, also means being more responsible, to what makes them happy and grow. It is their environment too. They must not feel, that we are intruders. Nature is precious to all!
We need nature as much as every other specie in this planet. Those that appreciate forests, or the ocean, then this will resonate very quickly.
Nature gives, without asking anything in return. Sure, we all use resources from earth, but we must respect it!
Furthermore, entire species are in constant danger of being extinct all the time. 99% of the currently threatened species are at risk due to human activities, unlike unpredicted past events, that caused mass extinctions. The impact is unknown, but certainly devastating. Each animal plays a role in the ecosystem and consequently the food chain (which we are a part of).
More than 3 years ago I’ve made a pretty big change in my life. It started with my diet. Reducing all the meat and fish... and eventually becoming vegan. Everything else made much more sense. My health is better than ever, my mind is clear. I feel better knowing that I am doing something good at least. Eventually I started reducing my footprint. Reducing waste as much as possible. My lifestyle changed a lot, along with my decisions. It is a fun and long journey, and not a difficult one if you are willing to give up some of your time to implement it.
A whole-food plant based diet is a dramatic improvement to my health, as well as the environment. Considering all the facts, specially meat consumption being one of the most devastating to the environment, I am happy I've made the change. Just wish I had made it long ago.
We should all ask yourselves... is this the best we can do? just let corruption govern? thriving at the expense of others? when will it end? why do we allow the greedy companies to command what is the best for us? do you want to live in a world where everything is degrading... animals and nature dying, pollution is the norm, diseases are the norm, lack of biodiversity, medicine stagnated, etc? eventually we will be dead too. No matter what, we cannot survive without it!
This is a call for your HELP... to protect the planet we all live on!
I suggest you mark on your calendar (at least once a month) something from the list below that you are going to change towards this goal. Even the smallest thing counts.
Things to get you started (in no specific order):
It's easy to ignore what goes around in the world. I know, but please be mindful. For every action we do, for each purchase we make, we may be severely affecting others and ultimately ourselves. We should be striving to live in harmony, without damaging the most beautiful thing we’ve got... planet earth!
It is all about reducing our footprint, so other species and nature can thrive too. They have the same right to live in peace as we do. We all need each other!
Habits take time to form, but as with anything, the rewards are worth fighting for! Remember every little change is important. With time, changes stick and new habits are created. Eventually it will all fall into place. The healthier the environment, the healthier you will be. Let’s please stop acting like we are not responsible for the planet. Destruction won’t go away, unless we do something about it now.
Do it for the animals, for other species, but specially for your children aka the next generation. We do it together!
You have my gratitude for reading so far. If you have been doing this for a while, my gratitude expands even further :)
Remember, the next generations won't forget us (for better or for worse)!
Greta Thunberg has a message for you!
Also don’t forget to treat all human beings with respect. Help them overcome their issues, even strangers. The happier everyone is, the better we become. Nobody deserves less!
If you need help with this or any other issue, feel free to add me on steam.
Feel free to suggest new ideas, or report dead links. I aim to keep this up to date.
Thanks for reading!
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